A case for a Sin & Punishment representative.

[Zera]

As you can see in this chart, there are many characters with swords, and many characters with reflectors, but NO CHARACTER...can reflect missiles with their sword.

Thus, I propose that a Sin & Punishment character be added to Smash to fulfill this niche.

Of course, this would fulfill other niches as well - a sword fighter fully equipped for ranged combat - a Sin & Punishment rep (Seriously, why don't we have one yet...) - and a character that would finally get me to stop abusing Dedede's Jet Hammer. Indeed, the possibilities are endless. Who's with me?

(EDIT: Please do not vote "no" if you haven't played a Sin & Punishment game. Some users have personal bias against me, and I don't want that to affect poll results.)

Edited May 15, 2016 by Zera

[Melissa]

I am, I wanna see what they can do with a character more unique than Bayo, Corrin, and Cloud put together

Edited May 15, 2016 by CountessGardy

[ILikeKirbys]

I'll admit I never got very far in Sin & Punishment, but it was fun, and what I've seen of the sequel looked even better. And a S&P character's arsenal could be rather interesting...

[spoiler=S&P Rep Moveset Thoughts]I'm going to assume Saki or Isa, but Airan or Kachi could probably also work outside of the Final Smash.

Have two shooting specials, a Side-B where you can move freely while firing but only shoot straight forward and a Neutral-B where you can aim in any direction with the control stick but can't move.

Use Isa's flash-step-dodge-dash-thing from S&P 2's last stage for the Up-B. Maybe have it like Rush Coil where you can jump after using it, to differentiate from Mewtwo's Teleport.

Down-B could be a standard-looking sword slash that reflects projectiles.

A attacks could be sword slashes, simple enough. Jab combo could be smacking people with the gun a couple of times before thrusting it forward.

Pummel would be smacking people with the gun. Throws would be shooting people up close, which knocks them away. Damaging, maybe even able to kill at high percents, but not combo-friendly.

Final Smash would be the Ruffian transformation. Would allow infinite Up-B uses and greatly buff Saki/Isa's power while giving them super-armor.

Jumps would be somewhat highish, but they'd fall like a rock. Movement speed would be okay, but nothing special.

Weight would be lightish, but not extremely so.

So yeah, I'd like to see a Sin & Punishment rep... but I doubt it'll happen. Maybe as a retro game rep? Though to be completely honest, I'd rather see Muddy Mole from Mole Mania (I'm sure it could work) or Ray 01 from Custom Robo (this could definitely work, Custom Robo has a ton of parts that could be used for a projectile-heavy moveset if they can't get Mega Man back).

Still, I'd be happy if I saw a Sin & Punishment rep, or a stage.

[spoiler=S&P Spoiler]Maybe have the earth as a stage, with Achi's earth imitation attacking the stage (and the fighters on it), like the last part of Sin & Punishment? Probably not a good idea, but it's a thought.

Edited May 15, 2016 by ILikeKirbys

[Alex95]

I've never played S&P before, but I know a few of the characters (Saki's from that game, right?). I think it'd be cool to see one, sure.

[Anacybele]

Kirby, Megaman, and Greninja aren't sword users, yo. Kirby has a sword in ONE move. It's not his primary focus.

[Lightchao42]

I wouldn't be opposed to a Sin & Punishment character assuming that they would have a unique moveset. But you really shouldn't count Ganondorf, Kirby, Greninja and Mega Man as sword users.

- a sword fighter fully equipped for ranged combat -

Isn't Corrin sort of like that already?

[Shin]

The Links' shields actually don't reflect, they just tink projectiles. To be very honest, I don't see why the attributes mentioned would necessarily be associated with Sin and Punishment character.

For example, Waluigi with a tennis racquet would be perfect for the role you've described. It would make more sense too because tennis racquets are specifically designed for hitting things... like tennis balls. He also has many other notable features, like his ability to say "wah" and his amazing dance moves. He's also appeared regularly in Mario Spin-offs and would be a suitable representation of the non-main series titles.

I could have picked anyone to fill the niche, like Shrek or Goku, but the attributes you've described can be applied to characters outside the Sin and Punishment franchise.

[NinjaMonkey]

As you can see in this chart, there are many characters with swords, and many characters with reflectors, but NO CHARACTER...can reflect missiles with their sword.

Thus, I propose that a Sin & Punishment character be added to Smash to fulfill this niche.

Of course, this would fulfill other niches as well - a sword fighter fully equipped for ranged combat - a Sin & Punishment rep (Seriously, why don't we have one yet...) - and a character that would finally get me to stop abusing Dedede's Jet Hammer. Indeed, the possibilities are endless.

That's a pretty weak case for arguing for a Sin & Punishment character to be in Smash - I've heard far better arguments made for other characters to be in Smash.

[solrocknroll]

That's a pretty weak case for arguing for a Sin & Punishment character to be in Smash - I've heard far better arguments made for other characters to be in Smash.

so?

i don't care about S&P so I don't want a character, but no one actually needs an argument lol

I want Seven from Xenoblade but I'm not going to make a soliloquy about why she's the best.

[NinjaMonkey]

The title of this this thread implies that he's making one, though.

[maybe]

I am, I wanna see what they can do with a character more unique than Bayo, Corrin, and Cloud put together

how is sin and punishment guy more unique than bayonetta

[Zera]

To be very honest, I don't see why the attributes mentioned would necessarily be associated with Sin and Punishment character.

Waluigi also appeared regularly in Mario Spin-offs and would be a suitable representation of the non-main series titles.

In the Sin & Punishment universe, all swords can deflect missiles or bullets, including the bosses'.

Spin-off Mario games are already represented. Mario himself appears in 99% of them, after all.

I wouldn't be opposed to a Sin & Punishment character assuming that they would have a unique moveset. But you really shouldn't count Ganondorf, Kirby, Greninja and Mega Man as sword users.

Isn't Corrin sort of like that already?

My criteria was "Does this character EVER show a sword of some kind?" And those characters met the criteria.

Corrin has a projectile, but he is not "fully equipped for ranged combat" since he doesn't have a reflector.

how is sin and punishment guy more unique than bayonetta

We have guns AND swords!

Edited May 16, 2016 by Zera

[Clarinets]

Voted yes in the poll, but I do not think Saki or second game's protagonist would be more original than Bayonetta.

[Original Alear]

Corrin has a projectile, but he is not "fully equipped for ranged combat" since he doesn't have a reflector.

"Fully equipped for ranged combat" is a pretty nebulous concept. I think Samus is usually considered to be fully equipped for ranged combat, but she doesn't have a reflector. Soldiers I don't think have reflectors, but many of them are equipped for ranged combat.

[Hardin]

I would be fine with Saki or Isa Jo being added to Smash, as I'm always open to fighters from smaller Nintendo IPs being included.

[solrocknroll]

yeah I'm not for this because there are way cooler series like Starfy, Advance Wars, Pushmo, and Chibi-Robo that have not only non-realistic characters but they'd also be more unique than sword+reflector

[Zera]

I didn't say sword + reflector is ALL there is to a Sin & Punishment character. There are charge shots, teleportation, magic, close combat, alien transformations - it depends on what character you pick, but most of them have great moveset potential. Heck, even the generic soldier would have as many moves as Starfy and Mallo combined.

[Comet]

oh, i wonder who made this topic

if S&P actually had popularity, maybe. btw, ness's forward smash is pretty vlose to "sword that refects".

LMAO he probably has me blocked

Edited May 16, 2016 by Comet

[Dotty]

Doesn't Mii Swordfighter have a sword-based reflector?

[euklyd]

Yeah, it does. Just make a Mii Swordfighter for Saki.

[Zera]

Doesn't Mii Swordfighter have a sword-based reflector?

That's not a default move, so I didn't count it.

Yeah, it does. Just make a Mii Swordfighter for Saki.

But then he wouldn't have a gun. It must be sword AND gun!

Edited May 16, 2016 by Zera

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Your criteria for who the sword users are is poor. Ganondorf, Kirby, Greninja and Mega Man are NOT sword users.

Your argument for a S&P character is also...not so great. As someone else already said, it can apply to multiple characters from multiple series. Waluigi would honestly work just as well, and he has a whole lot more popularity.

Also...

yeah I'm not for this because there are way cooler series like Starfy, Advance Wars, Pushmo, and Chibi-Robo that have not only non-realistic characters but they'd also be more unique than sword+reflector

...this. And I'd add Golden Sun to the list.

I voted No, No, and Neither. S&P doesn't really need nor does it warrant a rep. It's VERY niche, and it really isn't all that great (which is why I voted "Neither" despite having checked them both out, I wish I hadn't, terrible story and only "eh" gameplay). There are several other better, unrepresented series that could use a rep (like Advance Wars and Golden Sun).

[Reality]

Said yes for having a stage. The first game alone has lots of inspired stuff, from the desolate field of wheat that lightning is striking, to flying through aircraft carrier stage, and the final battle with meteors and dragon ball z style death balls raining down from the earth. The second game has just as many excellent set pieces, but actually had more graphical power behind it. I'm kind of partial to the water tunnel myself.

Personally I'd prefer the field of wheat or the subway, but the aircraft carrier is easily the the main setpiece of S&P, so it's the only thing could reasonably ask to be made into a stage. Star successor has more than one (reasonable) options. For one thing, the city stage looked much better and seeing the a flock of mutant birds come out from under a highway underpass and some off-axis skyscrapers made the whole thing feel closer to a apocalypse in modern times than the first game did.

Just as much potential as other non-roster stages like pilotwings and SSB animal crossing.

Sad no to character inclusion. I kind of want the roster to be small In general, and personally I like grappler charathers in Street figher and KOF, so I wouldn't play them much if they got in anyway. Some of the psychic-based bosses might be more up my alley as a character, but I can just ask for mewtwo to be redesigned. Also it's so niche that even with my vote and the rest of the S&P it wouldn't make a blip.

[Zera]

@Fire Emblem Fan: Saying Sin & Punishment shouldn't be represented because it's niche is a poor argument, because

1. Fire Emblem characters in Melee. 'Nuff said.

2. Punch-Out is apparently even more niche than Sin & Punishment.

According to VGChartz...

Punch-Out! (2007) sold 0.29 million units worldwide.

Sin & Punishment: Star Successor (2009) sold 0.44 millions units worldwide.

...of course more people know about Punch-Out than Sin & Punishment now that Little Mac is in Smash Bros....

3. Keeping niche series out of Smash keeps them obscure, which, assuming the series are of equal quality, is inherently bad.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Zera

[Jedi]

Punch Out has history back on the NES, and Fire Emblem was fairly big in Japan, it goes to show that FE3 was the greatest selling FE for quite some time, even after they started localizing it.

Sin & Punishment is in a really weird spot and is incredibly niche, I don't know if people would appreciate a S&P character compared to the 58 we have.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Jedi