More Unpopular Fire Emblem Opinions

[Thane]

Well, one instance was in Conquest, when the Nohrian army is marching through the Hoshidan capital in the opening of chapter 24. The citizens watching in fear and heckling at Corrin while Hans and Iago keep them at bay with intimidation tactics just feels very fitting and well done.

I fail to see what's good about this. If the people of Hoshido had reacted any other way, it wouldn't have made any sense. Not only that, but it's basically a repeat of what has already happened in Conquest so far, with Corrin and their ragtag bunch of misfits having to clench their fists in their pockets while Hans and Iago twirl their moustaches.

It's also further cheapened by Hinoka saying she'll make the Hoshidans forgive Corrin.

Not only that, how often are you on the invading side in a Fire Emblem game? For example, when Bern was making rounds in Binding Blade, or Akaneia invading Aritia in the earlier chapters of Mystery of the Emblem.

I wouldn't mind playing the invading side if it had actually been done well. Having the main character keeping the rest of the characters out of the plot because of a moronic gambit is not a good enough reason.

The picking between the family that raised you and blood family thing was honestly fairly interesting too

Indeed, the premise of the game is wonderful.

Of course, it's also, essentially, a lie.

even if Birthright didn't do much other than make Corrin out to be some justice seeking fool, bent on taking down Garon.

You mean the man that's for all intents and purposes behind the war and the death of their parents, whose death would be the first and most important step towards peace between the two countries, both of which Corrin has ties to?

I can't imagine why they'd want to kill Garon.

I loved how Conquest was the clear morally wrong choice, and everything was done to try and make things work out and they don't. There's genuine conflict going on with Corrin. He/She knows what they're doing is wrong, and they want to make things right, but because of the circumstances, they don't, and that's entertaining and enjoyable.

I would argue that this is a point against Corrin and the plot itself, not for it. Let's recap Corrin's choice here.

Corrin chooses to go back to a family that has lied to them all their life and a country that has started a war on an innocent nation ruled by someone who's directly responsible for the death of their "real" parents and has tried murdering them twice already, spitting in the face of their parents and siblings' sacrifices. All of this without having any plan to end the war and even until chapter 15 not even considering getting rid of Garon.

After chapter 15, Corrin and Azura keep the information about Garon's true identity (another can of worms I'll leave aside for now) from the siblings, effectively keeping them out of the plot and any potential character development that would've come from them having to deal with their father being dead and that they'd have to destroy his body so that his spirit could rest. This is all based on information acquired through sheer plot convenience, carried through on the assumption that Garon would actually go to Hoshido and sit on that throne, something that's not a given at all, and then solved by yet another plot convenience in the form of the throne.

Corrin doesn't even begin to try and talk to the Hoshidans when they have the perfect opportunity to do so in Izumo, opting instead to joke away their time and selfishly say that they want to experience this again, all while planning on invading their country. They then carry out said invasion and are directly responsible for the death of thousands, including Takumi and Ryouma, only to be forgiven in anime limbo.

In short, Corrin makes the wrong choice and for the wrong reasons, without any solid plan of action, which is then solved by some of the clumsiest writing I've ever seen. Just because they feel a little sorry for themselves does not mean their actions are justified in any way, and they come across as an utterly helpless, selfish individual, along with their siblings, yet we're told they're the good guys, and that does not sit well with me.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Thane

[Radiant head]

So to sum it up, each has its own merits but to me, I found FE more fun than FFT simply because again, I gave my reasons why I love FE and FFT simply can't emulate that FE feeling to me.

wait what, why would this be unpopular on a fire emblem forum.

[ping]

*snip*

Let's maybe not make this into the 1037836th discussion about Fates' plots? It's more of a polarizing thing than one dominant opinion with only one gaulish village fighting against it anyway, or at least that's how I perceive it.

To give a contribution myself:

The core of the doubling mechanism as it has been since FE1, that meeting a certain difference in attack speed effectively results in doubled damage, is terrible and needs a dramatic overhaul. I can appreciate that Fates used it to balance (most) weapons with 1-2 range, but my main grudge with the mechanism still stands: I hate how one single speed pip can make such a huge difference, how it can single-handedly flip a fight from 'fairly balanced' to 'very one-sided'. The difference between doubling and not doubling (and being doubled, if that's a risk for a character) is just too big and up until now, no FE game has even tried to make it any less severe.

I dunno if that's unpopular, but at least I haven't read this 1037835 times before. ;p And since IS never abandoned the mechanism itself and only limited its availability in some games, they clearly don't agree with me. ;)

[Thane]

Let's maybe not make this into the 1037836th discussion about Fates' plots? It's more of a polarizing thing than one dominant opinion with only one gaulish village fighting against it anyway, or at least that's how I perceive it.

Then it becomes one of the many threads where people just list things without discussing anything instead, which I'd say is even worse on a public forum. This is a thread where you post unpopular opinions, after all, and if you do put yours out there, shouldn't it be discussed?

Edited January 3, 2017 by Thane

[ping]

Sure, but it's still tiring to see every other thread devolve into a discussion how the three paths of Fates do or do not suck. You may or may not raise valid complaints (I will not join the discussion), but they're complaints that have been raised and argued against 1037835 times before.

[Thane]

Sure, but it's still tiring to see every other thread devolve into a discussion how the three paths of Fates do or do not suck. You may or may not raise valid complaints (I will not join the discussion), but they're complaints that have been raised and argued against 1037835 times before.

And bringing attention to it results in the same amount of posts. I've now replied to you both twice, though nothing of importance has been said between us two.

It's a popular, active thread, so even if I had wanted to turn it into a Fates writing bashing thread, I wouldn't have been able to; our replies would've been drowned out by other discussions in time. Had me and Vaikanfu reached an impasse, we could've settled it via PM's.

I really don't see the need for mini moderating a few replies, especially not when they're relevant to the topic at hand.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Thane

[Jave]

-Fates story is not bad by any means. In fact, it's really rather good. Conquest was great and goes into a lot of issues that most Fire Emblem games (at least the ones I've played) don't cover very well or at all.

I'm of a bit of a similar opinion. Fates has far from the best story in a video game I've ever played (in fact, I can acknowledge a lot of its flaws) but I have to say I really enjoyed experiencing through it.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Jave

[Nobody]

I also enjoyed conquest's story. It didn't bother me at all and was enough to keep me entertained for my first playthrough.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Nobody

[MCProductions]

I enjoyed Fates story for what it was worth, and while I think the fanbase blows way out of proportion how bad it really is even if I still consider it a sloppily written story, I honestly believe it's an improvement over the past 4 titles in all areas but worldbuilding, where Fates definitely messed up royally. I don't find it to be well written by any means, but as a writer myself, I enjoyed it

Edited January 4, 2017 by MCProductions

[Loki Laufeyson]

Fates' story is pretty well....all over the place. But i feel like at this point, continuing with any kind of discourse on the matter is beating a rotting horse carcass.

[solrocknroll]

And bringing attention to it results in the same amount of posts. I've now replied to you both twice, though nothing of importance has been said between us two.

It's a popular, active thread, so even if I had wanted to turn it into a Fates writing bashing thread, I wouldn't have been able to; our replies would've been drowned out by other discussions in time. Had me and Vaikanfu reached an impasse, we could've settled it via PM's.

I really don't see the need for mini moderating a few replies, especially not when they're relevant to the topic at hand.

All you ever have on the topic is the exact same points. We get that the morality and logic on Conquest is pretty awful, but why do you feel the need to shut down anyone posting positively at all? That one poster was just saying how they felt, it didn't call for an itemized list.

Conquest's plot is truly terrible, but can we not let random people say that they liked about it without getting a checklist of reasons why to hate it?

Edited January 4, 2017 by Freyjadour

[Troykv]

Let's maybe not make this into the 1037836th discussion about Fates' plots? It's more of a polarizing thing than one dominant opinion with only one gaulish village fighting against it anyway, or at least that's how I perceive it.

To give a contribution myself:

The core of the doubling mechanism as it has been since FE1, that meeting a certain difference in attack speed effectively results in doubled damage, is terrible and needs a dramatic overhaul. I can appreciate that Fates used it to balance (most) weapons with 1-2 range, but my main grudge with the mechanism still stands: I hate how one single speed pip can make such a huge difference, how it can single-handedly flip a fight from 'fairly balanced' to 'very one-sided'. The difference between doubling and not doubling (and being doubled, if that's a risk for a character) is just too big and up until now, no FE game has even tried to make it any less severe.

I dunno if that's unpopular, but at least I haven't read this 1037835 times before. ;p And since IS never abandoned the mechanism itself and only limited its availability in some games, they clearly don't agree with me. ;)

I would like to known a way to make Speed not the best stat ever without also making it pointless.

[Harvey]

I also enjoyed conquest's story. It didn't bother me at all and was enough to keep me entertained for my first playthrough.

To me the story in Conquest is very solid till the end which lead to a disappointment......the lack of drama just ruined that part.

And this story was written by a manga artist....so you can't blame IS for the story.

[Lightchao42]

I acknowledge that Fates's plot isn't perfect, but I too enjoy it for what it is and think that its flaws are often exaggerated. Heck, I actually like Fates's plot, which is probably illegal on this forum. And it gave me plenty of headcanons to think up, so that's also a plus.

[Magical Glace]

To me the story in Conquest is very solid till the end which lead to a disappointment......the lack of drama just ruined that part.

And this story was written by a manga artist....so you can't blame IS for the story.

Said mangaka really didn't have the time to help as much as needed.

Pretty much all he gave was an initial rough draft, tmk.

Also that's a pretty harsh generalization of manga writers.

[KoimanZX]

Sorry to (attempt to) drag this discussion away from the plot of Fates, but just finishing Sacred Stones made me consider a long-dropped mechanic that is not very popular in the fandom: weapon weight. While it really had many issues with implementation, it is an interesting mechanic that makes the player consider which weapons a character should use. Off-setting the weight through constitution makes quite a bit of sense from a physical standpoint as one needs to be of a sufficient mass to not be thrown off-center by a heavier weapon, no matter how strong the wielder may be; it is basic physics. I guess the problem was that many weapons were made too heavy and many characters--particularly female characters--had constitutions that were too low. I suppose it could be my being an idiot, but I think weapon weight could work despite it being annoying at times.

On a side note: Why were tomes made much heavier in Blazing Sword and Sacred Stones, when the weights in Binding Blade were--in my opinion--closer to ideal? Were tomes that broken in Binding Blade that they needed to be nerfed by increasing their weight?

Another thought I had is, would it be so bad if the weapons in the game had more realistic sizes and designs? (Hammers often have heads so big, they would realistically break off the handle).

[Lord Raven]

I'm not even sure why their weapon weight was increased - none of the magic users in FE6 were anything special.

[eclipse]

I'm not even sure why their weapon weight was increased - none of the magic users in FE6 were anything special.

Or if they were, it wasn't because of their ability to blow things up (Niime).

[Lord Raven]

Though Niime could blow things up with Apocalypse, but that's about the extent of it.

[Baldrick]

Given 1-2 ranged weapons and magic were usually balanced around weight early in the series, it's kind of weird that tomes are so light in FE6.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Speaking of weapon weight, it didnt really bother me at all. Hell, Tellius' way of doing it based on strength was really interesting indeed. I dont mind it being gone, but i didnt mind it being a thing either.

[Vaximillian]

Weapon weight was fine unless it was done FE4-way.

[Lord Raven]

Speaking of weapon weight, it didnt really bother me at all. Hell, Tellius' way of doing it based on strength was really interesting indeed. I dont mind it being gone, but i didnt mind it being a thing either.

My only issue with FE9's system is that it really punished certain magic users, and it made FE9 MM earlygame unnecessarily tedious. My issue with FE10's keeping the system is that it didn't really change anything but Nolan's early-game AS. FE11's system runs into the same issue as FE9's system.

Also, on second thought, my guess for making the tomes light in FE6 may have something to do with how Bld didn't affect the AS loss from tomes. As well as adopting some properties (and sprites!) of tomes from FE5 in general, where they probably made a Fire tome in FE6 like the Wind tome in FE5.

[KoimanZX]

Given 1-2 ranged weapons and magic were usually balanced around weight early in the series, it's kind of weird that tomes are so light in FE6.

I would have thought making the magic users squishy would be balance enough, but then I considered dodge-tanking and how broken a magic user could be as a result. I suppose that is why mages in Radiant Dawn have such low speed caps (although that attempt at balance did not work that well).

Also, on second thought, my guess for making the tomes light in FE6 may have something to do with how Bld didn't affect the AS loss from tomes. As well as adopting some properties (and sprites!) of tomes from FE5 in general, where they probably made a Fire tome in FE6 like the Wind tome in FE5.

I had no idea that tome weight functioned in Binding Blade like it did in Thracia 776. That explains the low weight.

[Lord Raven]

I had no idea that tome weight functioned in Binding Blade like it did in Thracia 776. That explains the low weight.

No, it doesn't. I'm just saying they were too lazy to modify the stats, since tomes weighed less in 776 as a whole (compared to 7/8) if I'm recalling right.