More Unpopular Fire Emblem Opinions

[Pixelman]

For what it's worth I liked Fartes' story

Is it good? Nah. But it is pretty funny and entertaining. Like the ending, for example.

I commend you on your dedication to arguing this point even though literally nobody agrees with you.

Now drop it, please.

Since when did you become moderator?

[Troykv]

I like Est units and Micaiah too.

A really close friend who is also into Fire Emblem also has Micaiah as one of his favorite characters.

It's always nice to find a Micaiah fan <3

[Jedi]

Not sure if unpopular or just not mentioned, but I think the way FE3 handled transformations (You use a stone and your transformed for 5 turns before having to use another use.) Should have been the way Laguz were handled in FE9 and FE10 instead of having to rely on a very lame meter system.

[Crazycolorz5]

Man, if I were the one arguing these points for 10 posts in a row, I would've been warned for being spamming 10 times.

In any case, I don't really understand how Micaiah is generally disliked.

[Eliwan]

edit quotes; why you no work

i have no idea why this not worked

tl;dr I'm fucking tired of people trying to avoid defending themselves because of the opinion card. This is an open forum, not a soapbox.

Literally read the title of the thread.

Opinions.

((You are soapboxing here too; by the way!))

If someone walked up to you and said "I like Fire Emblem but I hate how it splits up enemy and player phase into distinct player phases" what do you have to say to that?

"What parts of it do you like? How does the distinct player versus enemy phase pair bother you; and what sort of system would you think be a suitable replacement for the game?"

Honestly; the way that parts of the game are handled is incredibly important yes-- but it's more than possible to love one part and hate another part of the same game even though both dictate nearly every moment of it.

For example, I hate Megaman Battle Network's Liberation Missions; because they force the Chip Window open when the Custom Gauge is full.

However; I love the fact that the Liberation Missions are time-pressured; and also the fact that the system chosen creates unique value for certain chips (eg. SlowGauge; which in any other scenario for the game's normal play is basically a pointless chip; as opening the chip menu in all other circumstances is good because it lets you do things).

so how does one like the game (fyi this person noted the gameplay in particular) despite one huge, huge difference in the functionality of the turn queue?

Because the exact way you get to control units is, while a vital part of the game's end gameplay; it is possible to greatly enjoy the other parts while being annoyed at that particular one.

"It feels like it damages the fluidity or ease or enjoyable aspects of the experience; instead of enhancing the game"; I suppose is the best way I can phrase it

I'm arguing how someone can like the game when a core part of it is so different.

um, waht?

Like game but dislike this one part that is constantly in your face?

I get this feeling all the time! Many of my favorite games have this problem.

Advance Wars: Luck COs exist in this game and I hate the game for it. They turn strategy into gambit; but it certainly has value and some entertainment to have them in there.

Age of Wonders: Both hit chance and damage rate are heavily influenced by the RNG; the stats are obfuscated in their actual purpose(s); there's actually nothing that is reliably going to do anything (as all things have a 10% minimum chance of failure and a 10% minimum chance of success; nearly anything could happen). This; too, is really nice: it makes it harder for complete stomps to happen and it reflects the nature of the game's world, full of mystery and oddities that could cause nearly anything to happen-- such as a lone archer managing to ward off dozens of dragons.

League of Legends: literally how crit in that game works makes me very upset 100% of the time (but as a designer I understand why it can be nice and as a player it certainly works to an extent)

Metroid: Boss's weak point's... where? But this is actually enjoyable because creatures shouldn't have blaringly obvious weak points (if they did then why are they still alive). Map where? Where am I going? Wait how do I get to that door? Did I miss a powerup? How do I beat this boss? How do I get through this room?

But that's the point of that game! To explore the world.

Having no distinct player or enemy phase in Berwick affects the gameplay quite significantly, and being able to get past that is like trying to get over the fact that you can't directly control units in combat like a fighting game.

Yes, while it is significant; it is not the only thing!

Why is that hard to understand?

You're going to have to explain to me why it's not. Game flow is dictated by battle and turn order; if one of those things are off, then the entire game flow is off.

Yes. Game flow is dictated by how often and when the player has input relative to the actions of the enemy (or the reactions of the enemy to the player's actions; depending on game).

It is a huge deal in terms of gameplay when your units can move, and the fact that it's not enemy-player phase makes it extremely different in terms of strategy and planning because of the difference in game-flow. Adjusting the way the turns work in a video game makes for a significantly different experience.

Yes, of course!

But it might be one that people feel is relatively small compared to some other systemic changes; or (as is MC's case from my understanding) one that feels jarringly poor.

If I were trying to be correct, then "agree to disagree" would work here. As it stands, nobody's point seems to be correctness, so we can "agree to disagree" but it's not satisfying.

That's not how the phrase works afaik

Agree to disagree means you are hunting a truth or trying to convince somebody of something but cannot for some reason; and need to or desire to exit respectfully from argumentation / deliberation

"Agree to disagree" is correct in this context because people are trying to convince people of their opinions/views being accurate and well thought through and people aren't getting convinced

This doesn't really have anything to do with the fact that the game objectively plays differently because of the turn order. You got used to paying attention to it doesn't mean it's not a fundamental part, that just means you got used to the game and nothing more.

Right!

It is different; and MC's view on that was that it was for the worse overall for that particular decision.

Moving individual units at different times is still a big difference.

A big difference; sure.

But one that may not have felt particularly important considering other circumstances!

((Sorry if I said the same thing twice; it's kind of late for me))

Edited January 5, 2017 by Bedimal Eliwan

[Lord Raven]

Man, if I were the one arguing these points for 10 posts in a row, I would've been warned for being spamming 10 times.

wtf? lol

In any case, I don't really understand how Micaiah is generally disliked.

Because her personality doesn't appeal to many people, and in Part 3 she had all of the traits of an interesting character - basically, a sense of moral ambiguity because of her loyalty to her comrades causing her to things basically akin to war crimes - and they threw up all over it. Once the Blood Pact happened, then she went right back to someone who was instead trapped by her circumstances as opposed to a character with an interesting motivation. That is a killer for most people. That on top of being possessed by Yune for the entirety of Part 4. She's not liked (and for that matter hated) because she's supposed to be a main character but she ends up being completely uninteresting.

On top of that, she doesn't have much of a personality in Part 1. I can't even think of a personality trait other than at times biting sarcasm towards Sothe, but that could be because I haven't read the script in a minute. She comes off as a kind, strong person? And it's just not interesting? I don't remember very well. I didn't find her particularly memorable.

]Literally read the title of the thread.

Opinions.

Yes, and what the person was saying was not something that is determined by opinion. Having that said, this thread is about opinions, but it doesn't mean people can't challenge their opinions.

((You are soapboxing here too; by the way!))

I'm not.

snip

Okay I get that people don't like parts of a game, but this is literally what I am not getting. User has not stated why he disliked it; to some people, sure it's not a big deal, which means they didn't hate it. This user made it a point to state that they actively did not like this. As I said, it's like hating how FFX handles the turn order, but loving the gameplay of FFX, even though the turn order is the crux of how every element of the gameplay flows in. It's basically how the player relays his commands to the character and interacts with the opposing NPCs.

This is nonsensical, and this is what I'm meaning by the "flow" of the game. If the flow of the game is completely off, it's not enjoyable. If you hate the way the game flows, it's very baffling to me that you dislike the game. If this user actually hates or actively dislikes the design choice, then that's one thing; if this user still likes the gameplay, it doesn't make sense to me, because what's happening is that the user doesn't like how his commands work in the general flow of the gameplay, so he basically doesn't like the actions from his commands and he doesn't like the way the computer responds in turn. Why this is insignificant is another thing I have a hard time understanding, because to me there is also a disconnect between completely hating the interface and liking the game. You are correct that this is not the only thing, but this is how the player most directly interacts with the game, and disliking that interaction is not congruent with liking the game.

These examples;

Advance Wars: Luck COs exist in this game and I hate the game for it. They turn strategy into gambit; but it certainly has value and some entertainment to have them in there.

Age of Wonders: Both hit chance and damage rate are heavily influenced by the RNG; the stats are obfuscated in their actual purpose(s); there's actually nothing that is reliably going to do anything (as all things have a 10% minimum chance of failure and a 10% minimum chance of success; nearly anything could happen). This; too, is really nice: it makes it harder for complete stomps to happen and it reflects the nature of the game's world, full of mystery and oddities that could cause nearly anything to happen-- such as a lone archer managing to ward off dozens of dragons.

League of Legends: literally how crit in that game works makes me very upset 100% of the time (but as a designer I understand why it can be nice and as a player it certainly works to an extent)

Metroid: Boss's weak point's... where? But this is actually enjoyable because creatures shouldn't have blaringly obvious weak points (if they did then why are they still alive). Map where? Where am I going? Wait how do I get to that door? Did I miss a powerup? How do I beat this boss? How do I get through this room?

But that's the point of that game! To explore the world.

I don't quite understand. You're alternating between design flaws, but you're also stating what you like about each thing. What is equally not helping is that the person that I am questioning is not going into the real reason, despite actively alluding to one, which blew this "argument" beyond what it should've been, because I pointed out to him and questioned why in a post. I mean, I may as well have asked "why do you dislike it" instead of going like "this shit doesn't make sense." It also sounds like some of these are akin to the occasional 10% burn from Flamethrower in Pokemon as well, which is not really as important as the player-interface-computer interaction that I'm emphasizing.

Yours is more in line with how I believe that FF8's battle system is completely fundamentally flawed, yet I love it because I love the things you can do with it, despite knowing why it's not a particularly great system. That's different to me saying that I like FF8's gameplay, but I hate the menu based battle system, which is what MCPro's point is akin to, as I'm seeing it.

That's not how the phrase works

Agree to disagree means you are hunting a truth or trying to convince somebody of something but cannot for some reason; and need to or desire to exit respectfully from argumentation / deliberation

"Agree to disagree" is correct in this context because people are trying to convince people of their opinions/views being accurate and well thought through and people aren't getting convinced

Yeah, but as it stands, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with much of anything, I'm questioning something that someone said.

A big difference; sure.

But one that may not have felt particularly important considering other circumstances!

Then surely it wouldn't have been mentioned if it's unimportant, because it is an important mechanic. Resolving this should not take more than one person. If he goes into more detail, fine, but for now I don't know if his dislike is "I prefer something else"-tier or hatred or something in between. If it's the former, then I can perfectly understand it; if it's the latter, then I'm even more baffled.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Lord Raven

[Thane]

In any case, I don't really understand how Micaiah is generally disliked.

Pretty much what Lord Raven has already said. I personally also find her overabundance of specialness to be jarring to the point where I find myself shaking my head and wondering what the odds are of someone like Micaiah popping into existence, rather than caring about her as a character. As far as I know, she's only beaten by Corrin in this regard.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Thane

[NekoKnight]

Pretty much what Lord Raven has already said. I personally also find her overabundance of specialness to be jarring to the point where I find myself shaking my head and wondering what the odds are of someone like Micaiah popping into existence, rather than caring about her as a character. As far as I know, she's only beaten by Corrin in this regard.

While I agree that it was overdone, most Micaiah's specialness isn't really central to her character or even talked about until much later (all the heron branded stuff or being the true apostle). For most of the game she's just a Joan of Arc archetype with hazy prophetic powers and the ability to heal others. I don't think it's even in the same ballpark as Kamui.

[Thane]

While I agree that it was overdone, most Micaiah's specialness isn't really central to her character or even talked about until much later (all the heron branded stuff or being the true apostle). For most of the game she's just a Joan of Arc archetype with hazy prophetic powers and the ability to heal others. I don't think it's even in the same ballpark as Kamui.

I would say that they eclipse her character. She's a silver-haired, prophetic healer, the true apostle, apparently a skilled strategist, branded and has a special relationship with Yune who's all but worshipped by the people of Daein. I can honestly remember very few things she says or does because the game seems to instead want to really hammer in just how special she is.

Naturally, Corrin is far worse, but Micaiah's surplus of traits and abilities does her more harm than good, and that's definitely a legitimate reason as to why people wouldn't like her.

[NekoKnight]

I would say that they eclipse her character. She's a silver-haired, prophetic healer, the true apostle, apparently a skilled strategist, branded and has a special relationship with Yune who's all but worshipped by the people of Daein. I can honestly remember very few things she says or does because the game seems to instead want to really hammer in just how special she is.

Naturally, Corrin is far worse, but Micaiah's surplus of traits and abilities does her more harm than good, and that's definitely a legitimate reason as to why people wouldn't like her.

This is going to be a bit subjective but I'll go through the points.

-Silver hair: Distinct but in a technicolor hair population, it's not THAT special.

-Prophetic healer and people's hero: This is in line with her being a Joan of Arc archetype. She's rallying point for her people because she's fighting for their liberation, not because she has magical charisma. Her powers are pretty minor, the ability to see hazy visions and heal people at the expense of her own health.

-Skilled strategist: I wouldn't say she's particularly skilled, at least no greater than the typical FE protagonist. She may in fact be a bit reckless, requiring Sothe's caution to balance out her eagerness to help people.

-Branded: I don't think she needed this. It didn't add anything to her character.

-True apostle and relationship with Yune: I also don't think she needed this but it might be considered kind of clever because she had unexplained prophetic powers up to this point. As for her relationship with Yune, that can be inferred to be tied to her apostle status.

Of those 5 bullet points, only 2 of them are very objectionable and they aren't relevant to character until what, part 4?

[Thane]

-Silver hair: Distinct but in a technicolor hair population, it's not THAT special.

Yet in Tellius, that's a big deal that defines her.

-Prophetic healer and people's hero: This is in line with her being a Joan of Arc archetype. She's rallying point for her people because she's fighting for their liberation, not because she has magical charisma. Her powers are pretty minor, the ability to see hazy visions and heal people at the expense of her own health.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but don't Sothe attribute the Dawn Brigade's survival to her prophetic powers? As for the healing, it makes her a symbol to all of Daein. If that's not special, I don't know what is.

-Skilled strategist: I wouldn't say she's particularly skilled, at least no greater than the typical FE protagonist. She may in fact be a bit reckless, requiring Sothe's caution to balance out her eagerness to help people

Indeed, I may have exaggerated here, but it's still something she's just good at without any real explanation.

Of those 5 bullet points, only 2 of them are very objectionable and they aren't relevant to character until what, part 4?

Well, I disagree with that. I still consider Micaiah someone who is defined by her specialness, and that's by no means limited to part 4, that's just when she starts taking special snowflake steroids.

[Jedi]

Pretty much what Lord Raven has already said. I personally also find her overabundance of specialness to be jarring to the point where I find myself shaking my head and wondering what the odds are of someone like Micaiah popping into existence, rather than caring about her as a character. As far as I know, she's only beaten by Corrin in this regard.

I'd argue Kris & Robin are around Corrins similar level, if not worse considering they aren't even supposed to be the main characters yet by the end of their respective games they've pretty much pushed their Lords out of the spotlight almost entirely. While being pretty much 100% infallible.

[Thane]

I'd argue Kris & Robin are around Corrins similar level, if not worse considering they aren't even supposed to be the main characters yet by the end of their respective games they've pretty much pushed their Lords out of the spotlight almost entirely. While being pretty much 100% infallible.

I disagree.

Corrin is the son of a dragon god prophesied to save the world through songs written before they were even born. As such they've got special powers, are chosen by a sword which apparently has a will on its own and has a connection to the three relevant countries in Fates and subsequently, in the True Route, ends up as the monarch of a newly formed Valla through land donated to them by Xander and Ryouma for no adequately explored reason.

They've got a mysterious charisma which draws people to them. They've got several characters whose lives revolve around them and have done so for many years. The only people who seem to have a real beef with Corrin are either homicidal maniacs or influenced by his crazy, almighty father. As for being infallible, Takumi apologizes to Corrin after the latter has invaded his country, and Sakura and Hinoka don't harbor any hard feelings after the fact either.

I'm not going to argue that Kris and Robin didn't have a lot of flaws in the story, but I can't share the opinion that they're anywhere close to Corrin's level. In fact, I think it's worse that Corrin is the main character because they're supposed to be us, and this is more pandering than Kris and Robin combined.

[Nobody]

I disagree.

Corrin is the son of a dragon god prophesied to save the world through songs written before they were even born. As such they've got special powers, are chosen by a sword which apparently has a will on its own and has a connection to the three relevant countries in Fates and subsequently, in the True Route, ends up as the monarch of a newly formed Valla through land donated to them by Xander and Ryouma for no adequately explored reason.

They've got a mysterious charisma which draws people to them. They've got several characters whose lives revolve around them and have done so for many years. The only people who seem to have a real beef with Corrin are either homicidal maniacs or influenced by his crazy, almighty father. As for being infallible, Takumi apologizes to Corrin after the latter has invaded his country, and Sakura and Hinoka don't harbor any hard feelings after the fact either.

I'm not going to argue that Kris and Robin didn't have a lot of flaws in the story, but I can't share the opinion that they're anywhere close to Corrin's level. In fact, I think it's worse that Corrin is the main character because they're supposed to be us, and this is more pandering than Kris and Robin combined.

Everything you said in the second paragraph up until "for many years" describes Robin just as well as Corrin, and Robin is himself a dragon, whose fate of the world depends on. He even comes back to life at the end of the game for no reason at all, just because he's special and the protagonist. Robin's character also has another massive issue: What was he doing between when he was born and the beginning of the game? We never learn anything about that. Corrin's backstory might be terrible, and it really, really is, but at least we know what Corrin was doing during his life. Robin, on the other hand appears out of nowhere and that's it. It's even worse than the Azura thing you have on your sig, since at least we know where Azura was through all her life, unlike Robin, whose life was a huge blank between birth and the beginning of the game.

All these issues do not really describe Kris but that one has issues i'd say are even worse.

About your last point, aren't Robin and Kris ALSO supposed to represent the player? Doesn't robin in particular end up being the de fact main character just because he's meant to represent the player? I don't get what you mean there, Robin ends up being the protagonist of Awakening for all accounts, and Kris not only is praised for everything in FE12, he also destroys Marth's character, making him someone that can't do anything without his help. If you compare FE11 to FE12, the destruction of Marth's character is honestly just sad, and imo worse than anything related to Robin or Corrin. I think all the three of them are terrible characters, but I'd take Robin or Corrin over Kris without thinking twice.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Nobody

[Thane]

Robin is himself a dragon

No. They're the son of Validar and an unknown woman made into a suitable vessel of Grima; Robin has no dragon powers on his own as far as I know.

Everything you said in the second paragraph up until "for many years" describes Robin just as well as Corrin

Apart from the whole songs being sung of their heroic deeds before they were even born, the special weapon, them being a dragon and a royal in three separate countries, you mean?

He even comes back to life at the end of the game for no reason at all, just because he's special and the protagonist. Robin's character also has another massive issue: What was he doing between when he was born and the beginning of the game?

We're in agreement here. I never claimed them to be well written.

However, Corrin's background also raise concerns for the rest of the story. We never see them having a proper heart to heart with their Hoshidan siblings, or hell, even their bloody maids. Corrin is completely oblivious to Flora's suffering and they never sort it out in any path; they're compeltely fine with people just serving them. Their past, funnily enough, doesn't seem to have affected their personal growth that much, since Ryouma all but confirms they're the same as they were back when they lived in Hoshido.

Also, Corrin is in charge of the army in all three paths, but why? Ryouma, Xander, Camilla, Hinoka, Leo and maybe Takumi all have more experience than them. They're also supposed to be bad at strategy, so why do people follow someone as sheltered as Corrin? At least Robin proved himself to be competent, and even then, Chrom was in charge.

I know you said their backstory was bad, but I wonder if having no backstory is better than completely messing it up like with Corrin.

It's even worse than the Azura thing you have on your sig, since at least we know where Azura was through all her life, unlike Robin, whose life was a huge blank between birth and the beginning of the game.

What does my joke sig about Azura have to do with Corrin and Robin?

About your last point, aren't Robin and Kris ALSO supposed to represent the player?

Yes, and I have a lot of issues with that pandering as well, but it never reaches Corrin levels for reasons I've already stated. Everything from Corrin having three maids, a butler, a sister whose sole existence revolves around getting them back from Nohr, a sister whose sole existence revolves around banging them, a former best friend who became a knight in order to see them again, to how they're treated in the story is considerably worse pandering than Kris and Robin. I believe this issue is made worse because Corrin is a main character, since that means they're always in the focus, unlike Robin who becomes a de facto main character towards the end.

[Nobody]

No. They're the son of Validar and an unknown woman made into a suitable vessel of Grima; Robin has no dragon powers on his own as far as I know.

Aren't Grima and Robin the same person? It's been a while since i've played Awakening without smashing the start button, so i'm not really sure

Apart from the whole songs being sung of their heroic deeds before they were even born, the special weapon, them being a dragon and a royal in three separate countries, you mean?

I should have made this clearer, I meant the paragraphe after that, the "They've got a mysterious charisma which draws people to them. They've got several characters whose lives revolve around them" line.

What does my joke sig about Azura have to do with Corrin and Robin?

Nothing really, it's just that I found the situations (Robin and Azura) similar.

Yes, and I have a lot of issues with that pandering as well, but it never reaches Corrin levels for reasons I've already stated. Everything from Corrin having three maids, a butler, a sister whose sole existence revolves around getting them back from Nohr, a sister whose sole existence revolves around banging them, a former best friend who became a knight in order to see them again, to how they're treated in the story is considerably worse pandering than Kris and Robin. I believe this issue is made worse because Corrin is a main character, since that means they're always in the focus, unlike Robin who becomes a de facto main character towards the end.

I don't think those things are that much bigger than the pandering Robin and Kris have, but that's probably just my opinion. Having three maids and a buttler isn't anything particularly big for someone in nobility, though, and I understand Hinoka's reasoning.

Eh, I think in the end that's just a matter of opinions, and we will have to agree to disagree about Corrin being so much worse than everyone else. I think he's slightly worse than Robin, but I still prefer him to Kris, since he does not retroactively destroy an established character, and also because I found him way less annoying. Kris managed to annoy me like no one else could.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Nobody

[ping]

Robin, on the other hand appears out of nowhere and that's it. It's even worse than the Azura thing you have on your sig, since at least we know where Azura was through all her life, unlike Robin, whose life was a huge blank between birth and the beginning of the game.

I would guess that they left Robin's past completely blank to make him more of a player insert. Y'know, to make the player feel as if he literally fell into the game. I'm not saying it's a good decision, but given the whole Multiverse train the franchise seems to be jumping on, it's not even that egregious. ;)

To be honest, the whole Avatar business doesn't really work that well in FE anyway, until the developers decide to give the player some actual choices that actually change the flow of the game.

Marc didn't screw with Blazing Sword's story because he only existed so that the characters could tell the player what an awesome tactitian he was. The only impact he had on the story was that his appearance convinced Lyn to leave the plains (and let's be honest, Sain and Kent would have found her soon anyways).

Kris was shoehorned into an existing plot in a way that requires the story to shoehorn him out in the end again (the whole the-people-need-a-hero-king business).

Awakening gave the player the good ol' fake choices that changed the next 2 minutes worth of cutscenes at most.

And Fates might give the player the option to choose at the beginning of the game, but the plot switches to autopilot immediately after that. In CQ, the player can do little but watch 'himself' making a whole slew of terrible decisions.

Unless the player is given multiple choices over the course of the game that result in more divergence than just a few different maps that ultimately lead to the same outcome (as in FE6, for example), it's hard for me to really emphasize with the character that's supposed to represent me. I don't have an issue if I just play along a fixed story, but I don't like if the game constantly tries to make me feel as if *my* incredible charisma and insight just saved the day. It just feels patronizing (if that's the right word) to me.

€: guess I should have refreshed before submitting. :D

Edited January 5, 2017 by ping

[Jedi]

Robin has some of the absolutely most improbable tactics work, bordering on Mary Tzu territory, especially the burning boats, (which does have some historical backing to it being slightly possible) but the way Robin does it is entirely dumb, somehow it works anyways and they cheer like sociopaths that they just murdered tons of people.

Robin is also trusted Instantly aside from a few lines from Fredrick, Chrom has no trouble being a naive idiot (then again thats part of his character), everyone else following along with this blindly on someone who is later proven to be very dangerous to his life (Which honestly justifies Fredricks earlier suspicions), is the more questionable part.

While Corrin has improbable stuff given to him/her, he/she still goes to the siblings for advice, Robin just knows how to do everything without a blink.

Kris? Well I'd need an entire long essay for that one.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Jedi The Red

[Thane]

Aren't Grima and Robin the same person? It's been a while since i've played Awakening without smashing the start button, so i'm not really sure

No. Robin was meant to be Grima's vessel, you know like offering their body as a sacrifice. The Grima you fight in Awakening comes from the other timeline where that has already happened. Again, Robin's parents are Validar and an unknown woman.

I should have made this clearer, I meant the paragraphe after that, the "They've got a mysterious charisma which draws people to them. They've got several characters whose lives revolve around them" line

Is Robin meant to be charismatic? Is that ever explicitly stated or even implied? I know people listen to them because they're supposed to be a brilliant strategist, but charismatic?

Also, aside from Tharja, whose lives revolve around them? Corrin has Jakob, Silas, Hinoka and Camilla, and in a more twisted sense, Iago, Hans, Garon, Takumi (Conquest) and Anankos.

Nothing really, it's just that I found the situations (Robin and Azura) similar.

How?

I don't think those things are that much bigger than the pandering Robin and Kris have, but that's probably just my opinion. Having three maids and a buttler isn't anything particularly big for someone in nobility, though, and I understand Hinoka's reasoning.

Eh, I think in the end that's just a matter of opinions, and we will have to agree to disagree about Corrin being so much worse than everyone else. I think he's slightly worse than Robin, but I still prefer him to Kris, since he does not retroactively destroy an established character, and also because I found him way less annoying. Kris managed to annoy me like no one else could.

That is definitely your opinion. Waking up to two maids - as far as I know one of the biggest fetishes in Japanese entertainment media - and having a yandere sister obsessed with boning them is even worse than Tharja's obsession. Hinoka has dedicated her entire life to getting Corrin back to the point where she's distant from Takumi and Sakura. Silas has done something similar, except he exists in a void and only cares about Corrin because as far as we know he has no one else.

And again, just for good measure, they get away scot-free from any blame after invading Hoshido.

Robin has some of the absolutely most improbable tactics work, bordering on Mary Tzu territory, especially the burning boats, (which does have some historical backing to it being slightly possible) but the way Robin does it is entirely dumb, somehow it works anyways and they cheer like sociopaths that they just murdered tons of people.

Robin is also trusted Instantly aside from a few lines from Fredrick, Chrom has no trouble being a naive idiot (then again thats part of his character), everyone else following along with this blindly on someone who is later proven to be very dangerous to his life (Which honestly justifies Fredricks earlier suspicions), is the more questionable part.

While Corrin has improbable stuff given to him/her, he/she still goes to the siblings for advice, Robin just knows how to do everything without a blink.

Kris? Well I'd need an entire long essay for that one.

Cheer like sociopaths when they've murdered a ton of people? When and where does this happen? Also, aren't you comparing Robin to Corrin, the guy who decided to invade a nation rather than finding a more peaceful way to stopping Garon?

"Improbable stuff" is not what I would call those bloody songs and being a royal in three separate nations (and even being crowned king/queen in one without people for absolutely no reason - seriously, does anyone understand why this happened?). I call that hogwash.

[Nobody]

No. Robin was meant to be Grima's vessel, you know like offering their body as a sacrifice. The Grima you fight in Awakening comes from the other timeline where that has already happened. Again, Robin's parents are Validar and an unknown woman.

Is Robin meant to be charismatic? Is that ever explicitly stated or even implied? I know people listen to them because they're supposed to be a brilliant strategist, but charismatic?

Also, aside from Tharja, whose lives revolve around them? Corrin has Jakob, Silas, Hinoka and Camilla, and in a more twisted sense, Iago, Hans, Garon, Takumi (Conquest) and Anankos.

How?

That is definitely your opinion. Waking up to two maids - as far as I know one of the biggest fetishes in Japanese entertainment media - and having a yandere sister obsessed with boning them is even worse than Tharja's obsession. Hinoka has dedicated her entire life to getting Corrin back to the point where she's distant from Takumi and Sakura. Silas has done something similar, except he exists in a void and only cares about Corrin because as far as we know he has no one else.

Oh okay then. He still has Grima's bloodline, which makes him special indeed, but not a dragon.

Yes he is. Everyone in the game falls in love with him just as they do to Corrin on fates. He instantly gets the trust of the king and almost instantly gets the trust of Frederick, who is supposed to be suspicious of everyone. Before Fates came out, we'd hear people complaining about that all the time. Every support Robin has have people constantly praising him.

Well, everyone goes to Robin to solve their problems and think really highly of him, as seem in his supports. Chrom can't do anything without talking to Robin first.

Well, he appeared out of nowhere and was revived out of nowhere without any explanation, just like Azura appeared out of nowhere (but not really) and died out of nowhere.

The fact that maids is a japanese fetish should have nothing to do with this. Having 3 maids and a buttler is nothing special for someone in nobility. I don't see the issue with someone in nobility being portraied as having many maids. It's believable.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Nobody

[Thane]

Oh okay then. He still has Grima's bloodline, which makes him special indeed, but not a dragon

Pretty much. Bred to perfection like those beefy Belgian cows.

Yes he is. Everyone in the game falls in love with him just as they do to Corrin on fates. He instantly gets the trust of the king and almost instantly gets the trust of Frederick, who is supposed to be suspicious of everyone. Before Fates came out, we'd hear people complaining about that all the time. Every support Robin has have people constantly praising him.

Sure, but it's never turned into a bloody plot point or an excuse for them to lead the army in Chrom's stead. Don't get me wrong, I definitely see your point and I agree with you, but it's nowhere near Corrin's level.

What king, by the way?

Well, everyone goes to Robin to solve their problems and think really highly of him, as seem in his supports. Chrom can't do anything without talking to Robin first.

That's not nearly the same thing. There's no one besides Tharja whose lives revolve around them - Robin being a reliable guy who people come to for help is not the same as Hinoka spending her entire life training to get Corrin back.

Robin is Chrom's right hand man; why wouldn't they talk things through? At no point does it come across as Chrom's life revolving around Robin.

Honestly, I respect your opinion and arguments, but this is a rather weak, nonsensical way to make them more similar than they already are.

Well, he appeared out of nowhere and was revived out of nowhere without any explanation, just like Azura appeared out of nowhere (but not really) and died out of nowhere

Uh, alright then.

The fact that maids is a japanese fetish should have nothing to do with this. Having 3 maids and a buttler is nothing special for someone in nobility. I don't see the issue with someone in nobility being portraied as having many maids. It's believable.

It has everything to do with pandering and fetishes. It was one of the first things they showed of the game for a reason. It's something a lot of people want to experience for themselves, which is why maid cafés are a thing in Japan - hell, I specifically remember a Famitsu article, I believe, exclaiming "this game has maids!". It's all part of an image they want to sell.

Having maids is one thing, having them be super hot, loyal playable characters who serve their every whim aside from Flora is another.

[Crazycolorz5]

wtf? lol

The last time I made a post in a topic that wasn't directly related to its topic (in this case, unpopular opinions vs debating the merits of liking a thing as a whole while disliking a part), I got warned for spamming.

With that said, this is why I need to add something relating. So on that note,

Unpopular Opinion: FE14 is my favorite Fire Emblem game. Why? ITS UI IS JUST SO GOOD. My feelings of positivity for it are almost like, 65-70% due to how good every part of the UI is.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Crazycolorz5

[NekoKnight]

Well, I disagree with that. I still consider Micaiah someone who is defined by her specialness, and that's by no means limited to part 4, that's just when she starts taking special snowflake steroids.

A main character should have some specialness, that's why the story is about them. More damaging to a narrative than a character's specialness itself is how it affects the world. Micaiah has special traits but she's not the envy of the entire world for them. She's popular in Daein because of her deeds and they need someone to lead and inspire them, and no one else likes her.

I'm not sure why you would say that these traits define her when we see her personality come out countless times. She can be snarky, kind, reckless, eager and uncompromising when it comes to protecting people. She shows inner conflict in her desire to avoid war but also defend her countrymen. That's plenty of character right there and I don't even need to talk about her specialness.

Corrin is the son of a dragon god prophesied to save the world through songs written before they were even born. As such they've got special powers, are chosen by a sword which apparently has a will on its own and has a connection to the three relevant countries in Fates and subsequently, in the True Route, ends up as the monarch of a newly formed Valla through land donated to them by Xander and Ryouma for no adequately explored reason.

Y'know, apart from Valla being a country with no land, populated by no people, the funniest thing about Kamui becoming its monarch is that he wasn't even in the line of succession. If we assume that Anankos is a usurper and not a true king, the line of succession passes to Azura, and Kamui shares no blood with the royal family. Enjoy your free kingdom, asshole!

[Res]

If we assume that Anankos is a usurper and not a true king, the line of succession passes to Azura, and Kamui shares no blood with the royal family. Enjoy your free kingdom, asshole!

Arete was the queen of Valla, was she not? It's implied that she had royal Valla blood because she was the one to pass down the song to Azura. If that's true, Mikoto must've also had royal Valla blood, and the two would've been the daughters of one of Valla's kings.

[Thane]

A main character should have some specialness, that's why the story is about them. More damaging to a narrative than a character's specialness itself is how it affects the world. Micaiah has special traits but she's not the envy of the entire world for them. She's popular in Daein because of her deeds and they need someone to lead and inspire them, and no one else likes her.

I'm not sure why you would say that these traits define her when we see her personality come out countless times. She can be snarky, kind, reckless, eager and uncompromising when it comes to protecting people. She shows inner conflict in her desire to avoid war but also defend her countrymen. That's plenty of character right there and I don't even need to talk about her specialness.

She's praised and almost worshipped as the Silver-Haired Maiden, and the game takes its sweet time making sure we know how special we are at least until the reappearance of Ike. I don't know what I can tell you that I haven't already said; the only thing that sticks out in my mind when thinking about Micaiah are the things that make her more special, not her personality or relationships with other characters (read: Sothe and Yune). I'm not arguing that she should be a plain ol' Jane, just that I cannot for the life of me remember a single thing she says apart from the comment about Sothe being the mother of Ike's children.

Y'know, apart from Valla being a country with no land, populated by no people, the funniest thing about Kamui becoming its monarch is that he wasn't even in the line of succession. If we assume that Anankos is a usurper and not a true king, the line of succession passes to Azura, and Kamui shares no blood with the royal family. Enjoy your free kingdom, asshole!

Well, if Azura's the only other Vallite survivor and she doesn't want the throne, doesn't it automatically go to Corrin? I mean, if we're being real technical here.

Honestly, out of all the things in Fates, this is the one that baffles me the most, I believe. It's not necessarily the worst thing, just the strangest. Where does this idea of Corrin becoming a monarch even come from? There's not even a single mention of it until they just place a crown on their head.

Perhaps there must always be *dramatic thunder* a Vallite King...

Edited January 5, 2017 by Thane