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Fire Emblem Fates PVP Tier List

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Hello Serenes Forest, I'd like to get a discussion going about a tier list for classes in Fire Emblem Fates. This is only for Limited Battles because Standard is uncompetitive and kinda gross, and obviously the royals are the greater characters because they have cooler weapons.

Anyways, the way I'm formatting this tier list is based on how risky it is to use a class vs how rewarding it is (not rewarding as in personal reward but how often you'll win with it.)

Tier 1

Low Risk, High Reward

Wolfssegner

Swordmaster

Falcon Knight

Tier 1'

High Risk, High Reward

Master Ninja

Songstress

Maid/Butler

Dread Fighter

Tier 2

Low Risk, Decent Reward

Sniper

Paladin

Nine-Tails

Sorcerer

Malig Knight

Dark Knight

Hoshido/Nohr Noble

Kinshi Knight

Tier 2'

High Risk, Decent Reward

Berserker

Basara

Lodestar

Spear Master

General

Bow Knight

Tier 3

Low Risk, Low Reward

Great Knight

Oni Cheiftain

Adventurer

Hero

Tier 3'

High Risk, Low Reward (AKA utter trash)

Merchant

Preistess

Ballistician

Blacksmith

Onmyoji

Unranked

I have never used nor seen these be used, and I can't make a judgement purely by observation

Strategist

Witch

Dark Falcon

Vanguard

Great Lord

Grandmaster

Wyvern Lord

Master of Arms

Great Master

Mechanic

Again, this is only a preliminary list at the moment, and I'd like to get discussion going about some of the placements. Keep in mind that all of characters likely have a niche in one way or another, but that doesn't automatically make them good. I'm willing to move just about any class in a heartbeat if someone makes a good enough argument for the movement. I will be keeping a log of all changes in the OP.

Edited by Elegyy

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In my experience, it goes:

S Rank:

Master Ninja
Swordmaster

Falcon Knight

Lodestar
Songstress

A+ Rank:

Spear Master

Berserker

Sniper
Sorcerer

General

Kinshi Knight

and then everything else might as well not bother showing up.

Edited by Phillius

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I mean you're not wrong but I organized this post differently

True, but I'm a bit of a competitive nut. If it ain't top-tier or near top-tier, it isn't worth my time :XD:

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i feel like the dlc classes (except lodestar) belong somewhere near Tier 2' or lower, mainly because the classes do require some time and effort, and i've seen a lot of people using dlc classes not really do too much without the help of another unit. they're not too good, but they're also not a waste of time due to the skills you can learn from them.

(also: tactician = grandmaster? don't know if that's a typo or not.)

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Tactician's a non-dlc class that's akin to the Valkyrie in Awakening, Grandmaster's a dlc class thats really similar to awakening's grandmaster, except it's more magic based

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Tactician's a non-dlc class that's akin to the Valkyrie in Awakening, Grandmaster's a dlc class thats really similar to awakening's grandmaster, except it's more magic based

ah. i think the correct localized term for the class is strategist? i got confused for a second because tactician was grandmaster's base class in awakening.

Edited by iceblocked

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i feel like the dlc classes (except lodestar) belong somewhere near Tier 2' or lower, mainly because the classes do require some time and effort, and i've seen a lot of people using dlc classes not really do too much without the help of another unit. they're not too good, but they're also not a waste of time due to the skills you can learn from them.

(also: tactician = grandmaster? don't know if that's a typo or not.)

I'm from Australia so I can only offer theory on most of them, but my opinions on the DLC classes are as follows:

Great:

Lodestar and Witch

Potential:

Dark Falcon

Grandmaster

Dread Fighter

Great Lord

Garbage:

Vanguard and Ballistician

Edited by Phillius

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I don't think there's any need to distinguish tiers by how risky the units are to field. It's a very subjective measure that won't be necessary for a list that's going to be fairly clear-cut. Although perhaps I'm just being thrown off by Falcon Knight in a High Risk category given that it's more or less a prerequisite for a successful PvP team...

Any unit who is expected to pull their weight in combat needs to be highly specialized. Classes that are more well-rounded such Nohr/Hoshido noble, Dread Fighter, and Maids/Butlers are simply not optimal, and therefore I have a hard time seeing them as "Low Risk, High Reward". Anything they can do, another class does it better. For a start, I would structure the tiers a little more like this (In no particular order within tiers):

Top:

Falcon Knight

Songstress

Kinshi Knight

Swordmaster

Master Ninja

Falcon Knight is unquestionably the best staff bot, thanks to 8+ Mov and terrain ignoring properties for optimal Rescue use. Often they double as a rally bot with Replicate, and they're the glue that holds most teams together. Songstress works with the Falcon Knight to potentially carry units across the map, and supplements rally use. Kinshi Knights have the distinction of having the best 2-range option among the flyers; very useful in a movement-creep game like this. The Swordmaster/Master Ninja's stat spread and weapon choices make them imposing threats that cannot be ignored.

High:

Lodestar

Sniper

Nine-Tails

Wyvern Lord

Berserker

Spear Master

Solid alternatives to the classes above, or axes, which find their niche through Reverse Clubbing Corrin or other swordies, and Brave Axe nuking with Wyvern Lord.

Mid:

Witch

Dark Falcon

Sorcerer

General

Gimmicky, but serviceable with the right build. Magic is generally not that great in this game, and as such people under-prepare for it; these classes can exploit that.

I might be missing something, but any class below here would consist of units that have no niche; classes that suffer from a poor stat-spread (Malig Knight), or classes that are not specialized enough (everything else).

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The only niche (or gimmick) I see that the Noble class has is the Dragonstone niche, of which only Kana can make the best use of thanks to his/her personal skill (Draconic Heir). Hoshido Noble is also preferred over Nohr Noble since Hoshido Noble has more DEF and LCK over Nohr Noble (honestly, if you want to use the Dragonstone+ offensively, forget that notion and just be a Sorcerer or Witch). I can see Hoshido Noble potentially being an alternative to the General class by being a healing HP tank (only Kana can pull this off), especially in a Nohrian Trust build but it's quite gimmicky and perhaps impractical.

[spoiler=Example setup; only possible in Revelation]

Rinkah!Ignatius!Kana @ Hoshido Noble (with +DEF/-LCK or +DEF/-SPD and Dragon Talent)

-Nohrian Trust

-Renewal

-Even Better

-Better Odds

-Wary Fighter (especially if running -SPD), Veteran's Intuition, Good Fortune, HP +5, Swordbreaker, or Tomebreaker

Mains Dragonstone+ and Dragonstone

Orochi!Caeldori @ Malig Knight (Kana's S-support)

-Aether

-Sol

-Pavise

-Aegis

-Miracle

It's rather impractical and gimmicky at best, especially since you're committing 2 out of 5 team slots for this setup and that Kana is locked to 1-range while using any Dragonstone. And it's only truly successful if he can tank the entirety of an Enemy Phase (which can be ruined by random critical hits, Wyrmslayers, Dragon Spirits, repeated high-power assaults, Hexing Rod, and failure to proc his skills). If he is successful in surviving the Enemy Phase, he recovers 85% of his max HP at the start of his turn (or ALL of his HP if he runs Good Fortune and it manages to proc).

It may be fun for in-game though.

Edited by Roflolxp54

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Alright, I've tried working on a more strict tier list and providing reasoning fore my placements:

[spoiler=S Rank]

S Rank:

Master Ninja- the best PVP class in the game by a country mile. Godlike skill and speed gives them amazing hit, crit and avoid with their low strength and weapon might of hidden weapons being offset by high rates of skill activation, forging, status and ridiculous crit rates. They can also attack at 1~2 range without any of major debuffs of tomes, making them the best users of vantage. Cornbread in particular is amazing as a Master Ninja due to the bonuses from the Yato and on an optimised team, there's almost no reason not to make him this class. I'd say that Master Ninja is easily capable of beating every other class barring four exceptions that I would define as the counters (General, Kinshi Knight, Sniper and Berskerer) but even then the right skill set or weapon choice can easily turn the odds in their favour. Master Ninja is to Fates PVP what Meta Knight was to Brawl and what Clerics/Druids were to D&D 3.5.

[spoiler=A+ Rank]

Swordmaster/Lodestar- Both of the S-Rank sword classes are great in PVP, having great stats and class bonuses. The both of them are hampered by a lack of good range options, but their pros are more than enough to outweigh the cons. Class bonuses (+10 Crit, +10 Avd for Swordmaster and +10 Hit, +5 Crit, +10 Avd for Lodestar) and stat distribution means that generally Swordmasters will be faster and more dodgy while Lodestars have better hit rates and can take damage slightly better, so whichever one you prefer is up to you.

Falcon Knight- Easily the best support class, having a high movement, flight and the ability to use staves makes them much better than the alternatives.

Kinshi Knight- High movement, flight and access to bows and lances makes them not only a very dangerous class in combat, but also a soft-counter (with the potential to be a hard-counter) to the Master Ninja class, having weapons triangle advantage over them and the ability to easily out-maneuver them. However, a lack-luster stat distribution (not counting Corn and the Omega Yato) and their beast and bow weaknesses prevent them from being S Rank in my opinion.

Songstress- Warp + Sing + Inspiring Song is an amazing combination and ensures that Azura would do well on any team. However, the class is very much a one-trick-pony and doesn't have much use outside of the mentioned combo.

[spoiler=A Rank]

Sniper- The 'touch of death' class. Great stats, great class bonuses (+10 Hit, +10 Crit) and the buff to bows/yumi ensures that this class is easily the most powerful ranged attacker, with their S Rank in bows making them one of the counters to the Master Ninja class. As usual, the lack of close range attacking power is a major flaw but Snipers are now powerful enough that they are viable despite this weakness. The Point Blank skill might bolster them to A+ or maybe even S Rank, but I haven't been able to do anything with that myself yet.

Berserker- The other 'touch of death' class. +20 Crit is an amazing buff and the raw damage a berserker can throw out without the addition of crits or skills is more than worth their inclusion in a team, even without factoring in that axes/clubs gives them weapons triangle advantage over the Master Ninja class, making them a potential counter. However, despite their high HP they're rather fragile with low Def and Res and their speed, while good, will still see them doubled by the fastest classes with Swordmasters and Lodestars in particular being a hard-counter.

[spoiler=A- Rank]

Spear Master- Don't really excel in anything stat-wise except strength, but S Rank in Lances/Naginatas, good strength and bonus to crit make them an effective, if not optimal class.

Sorcerer- The nerfs to magic and the lack-luster stat distribution mean make them the weakest S-Rank weapon class with the exception of Maid/Butler. Regardless, they're still more effective than most classes as their class bonus to hit and crit as well as their high magic stat ensures that anything they hit will feel the pain. Again, an effective, but not particularly optimal class.

General- A good counter to many classes on this list, especially Swordmasters/Lodestars and Master Ninjas. High strength, decent skill and great defences makes them surprisingly deadly, especially with wary fighter and a brave lance equipped, more than capable of destroying B+ and below classes. However, any of the classes above, if optimised well, should be able to take out a General with relative ease, making this class a case of 'too good to be lower, not good enough to be higher' outside of it's potential use as a counter to some of the more dominant classes.

Edited by Phillius

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Alright, I've tried working on a more strict tier list and providing reasoning fore my placements:

[spoiler=S Rank]

S Rank:

Master Ninja- the best PVP class in the game by a country mile. Godlike skill and speed gives them amazing hit, crit and avoid with their low strength and weapon might of hidden weapons being offset by high rates of skill activation, forging, status and ridiculous crit rates. They can also attack at 1~2 range without any of major debuffs of tomes, making them the best users of vantage. Cornbread in particular is amazing as a Master Ninja due to the bonuses from the Yato and on an optimised team, there's almost no reason not to make him this class. I'd say that Master Ninja is easily capable of beating every other class barring three exceptions that I would define as the counters (General, Kinshi Knight, Sniper and Berskerer) but even then the right skill set or weapon choice can easily turn the odds in their favour. Master Ninja is to Fates PVP what Meta Knight was to Brawl and what Clerics/Druids were to D&D 3.5.

[spoiler=A+ Rank]

Swordmaster/Lodestar- Both of the S-Rank sword classes are great in PVP, having great stats and class bonuses. The both of them are hampered by a lack of good range options, but their pros are more than enough to outweigh the cons. Class bonuses (+10 Crit, +10 Avd for Lodestar and +10 Hit, +5 Crit, +10 Avd for Lodestar) and stat distribution means that generally Swordmasters will be faster and more dodgy while Lodestars have better hit rates and can take damage slightly better, so whichever one you prefer is up to you.

Songstress- Warp + Sing + Inspiring Song is an amazing combination and ensures that Azura would do well on any team. However, the class is very much a one-trick-pony and doesn't have much use outside of the mentioned combo.

[spoiler=A Rank]

Sniper- The 'touch of death' class. Great stats, great class bonuses (+10 Hit, +10 Crit) and the buff to bows/yumi ensures that this class is easily the most powerful ranged attacker, with their S Rank in bows making them one of the counters to the Master Ninja class. As usual, the lack of close range attacking power is a major flaw but Snipers are now powerful enough that they are viable despite this weakness. The Point Blank skill might bolster them to A+ or maybe even S Rank, but I haven't been able to do anything with that myself yet.

May want to check on the hidden class bonuses for Lodestars and Swordmasters.

Master Ninjas, Lodestars, and Swordmasters can become extra annoying if they choose (or forced via trading using another ally unit) to equip the Sunrise Katana (which gives a hefty 20 Avoid boost when equipped, with its only downside being that its unforged Might isn't much to write home about along with the usual katana debuff).

Female Corrin as a Master Ninja can become a problem due to access to Toxic Brew (SKL% chance of reducing target's movement to 0 and Avoid by 20). Female Kana, Selkie, or Velouria as a Master Ninja (assuming optimized to be one) can become even bigger problems since they can all legally run Toxic Brew, Draconic Hex, and Grisly Wound.

Point Blank Snipers can become annoying if they use the Spy's Yumi (boom, 1-3 ranged with the only potential downside being that its Hit Rate is shaky compared to other bows).

As the Songstress class is locked to Azura, who has Healing Descant as her personal skill, she can easily run Amaterasu to provide passive Renewal-level heals for her teammates, which could mean the difference between life and death and can help lessen the burden the (likely Falcon Knight) healer (if you have one) has. She can also run Inspiration and Foreign Princess for passive damage and defense buffs.

Edited by Roflolxp54

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May want to check on the hidden class bonuses for Lodestars and Swordmasters.

Master Ninjas, Lodestars, and Swordmasters can become extra annoying if they choose (or forced via trading using another ally unit) to equip the Sunrise Katana (which gives a hefty 20 Avoid boost when equipped, with its only downside being that its unforged Might isn't much to write home about).

Female Corrin as a Master Ninja can become a problem due to access to Toxic Brew (SKL% chance of reducing target's movement to 0 and Avoid by 20). Female Kana, Selkie, or Velouria as a Master Ninja (assuming optimized to be one) can become even bigger problems since they can all legally run Toxic Brew, Draconic Hex, and Grisly Wound.

Point Blank Snipers can become annoying if they use the Spy's Yumi (boom, 1-3 ranged with the only potential downside being that its Hit Rate is shaky compared to other bows).

As the Songstress class is locked to Azura, who has Healing Descant as her personal skill, she can easily run Amaterasu to provide passive Renewal-level heals for her teammates, which could mean the difference between life and death and can help lessen the burden the (likely Falcon Knight) healer (if you have one) has. She can also run Inspiration and Foreign Princess for passive damage and defense buffs.

Wait, what? My values for the class bonuses are- oh.

OTL

Anyway, Master Ninja is top tier for a reason. Even going beyond stats, the number of viable builds on it is ridiculous. Oh, and why mention Sunrise Katana for Master Ninja when they can have Kagero's Dart? It has 2 less might and 5 less hit, but gives a +2 to speed instead of +1, doesn't include the -1 to defence and resistance, has a 1~2 range and can debuff stats. Seriously, a whole team of Master Ninjas is probably one of the most powerful team compositions you can have.

Also, Spy's Yumi can't double as well as having a poor hit rate. You're right about the aura buffs for Azura, especially with the healing but PVP in Fates is very much the rocket-tag kind of multiplayer i.e. one-shot or be one-shotted, so healing tends to be a rather minor thing.

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I just find that high movement classes, like Kinshi Knight, Wyvern Lord, and Paladin are especially dangerous especially with Brave weapon + Galeforce. PvP essentially boils down to whoever is lucky enough gets the first strike / turn. I've demolished teams that try and go with tank builds, as well as those nasty Miracle!Nohrian Trust Builds because Fates PvP is all about hyper offense.

Edited by Leif

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I just find that high movement classes, like Kinshi Knight, Wyvern Lord, and Paladin are especially dangerous especially with Brave weapon + Galeforce. PvP essentially boils down to whoever is lucky enough gets the first strike / turn. I've demolished teams that try and go with tank builds, as well as those nasty Miracle!Nohrian Trust Builds because Fates PvP is all about hyper offense.

That's what I've seen. It tends to be either all Master Ninja teams, Rescue/Warp+Sing on Kinshi Knights with Crescent Bow + Galeforce + Line of Death + Spendthrift or some combination of the two.

Edited by Phillius

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I just find that high movement classes, like Kinshi Knight, Wyvern Lord, and Paladin are especially dangerous especially with Brave weapon + Galeforce. PvP essentially boils down to whoever is lucky enough gets the first strike / turn. I've demolished teams that try and go with tank builds, as well as those nasty Miracle!Nohrian Trust Builds because Fates PvP is all about hyper offense.

I wonder how many of them ran 10-12 movement (2 Boots; Movement +1; Rally Movement) and ran Replicate.

Edited by Roflolxp54

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I wonder how many of them ran 10-12 movement (2 Boots; Movement +1; Rally Movement) and ran Replicate.

That's the strategy, lol.

Edited by Leif

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That's the strategy, lol.

... since they're all solo units (due to the nature of Galeforce and Replicate), it's only a matter of time before it's all "Guests only, Final Destination" due to the Logbook exploit involving statues.

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Speaking of which, has anybody met hackers yet? I've only lost one match so far and it was to a guy who had warp (a skill not available in the EU yet) and had +7 S-Rank weapons.

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Speaking of which, has anybody met hackers yet? I've only lost one match so far and it was to a guy who had warp (a skill not available in the EU yet) and had +7 S-Rank weapons.

I don't do PvP; I just theorycraft like Pokemon players on Smogon.

I suspect that it's not going to be uncommon to see peeps running illegal skill sets thanks to hackers and skill buying.

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I don't do PvP; I just theorycraft like Pokemon players on Smogon.

I suspect that it's not going to be uncommon to see peeps running illegal skill sets thanks to hackers and skill buying.

Said the guy who has a Takumi with Draconic Hex.

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Said the guy who has a Takumi with Draconic Hex.

The computer is a cheating bastard. (Context: Blame Takumi for running it in Conquest's story.)

Also, Einherjar children characters can be especially deadly (since as Einherjars, they're not bound to the limits of the variable parent being only available to 1 person as long as you have an extra save slot but if you're willing to go the extra mile, you can have Corrin with the relevant Boon/Bane combo be the variable parent for that child).

Edited by Roflolxp54

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Speaking of which, has anybody met hackers yet? I've only lost one match so far and it was to a guy who had warp (a skill not available in the EU yet) and had +7 S-Rank weapons.

I played somebody who had a Camilla with a Mjolner (idk how its spelt) and no particularly outstanding skills. She was only going to attack once and do 1 damage, but she crit and luna'd and did 3 (big whoop.) However, she then attacked again (like she was using a brave tome or whatever its called [side note im SUPER good at this game]) and did 44 exactly, which happened to be the amount of health i had left. Not sure how this happened, I was recording for my yt when it did happen and reviewed the footage, but nothing that could have possibly triggered this stood out.

Anyways, can we try to stick to tiering classes based on risk vs reward (using my system p much)? I get that some classes have the advantage over others, but some take a little more of a risk to use but can yield great results, and some are simply more consistent.

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I played somebody who had a Camilla with a Mjolner (idk how its spelt) and no particularly outstanding skills. She was only going to attack once and do 1 damage, but she crit and luna'd and did 3 (big whoop.) However, she then attacked again (like she was using a brave tome or whatever its called [side note im SUPER good at this game]) and did 44 exactly, which happened to be the amount of health i had left. Not sure how this happened, I was recording for my yt when it did happen and reviewed the footage, but nothing that could have possibly triggered this stood out.

Anyways, can we try to stick to tiering classes based on risk vs reward (using my system p much)? I get that some classes have the advantage over others, but some take a little more of a risk to use but can yield great results, and some are simply more consistent.

If we're using your system, I stick by my current tier list for S, A+, A and A-.

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Speaking of which, has anybody met hackers yet? I've only lost one match so far and it was to a guy who had warp (a skill not available in the EU yet) and had +7 S-Rank weapons.

I have. I saw a Felicia Witch with a +7 Excalibur. I also saw two Songstress Bond units on a team in addition to Azura. Three Singers = automatic death.

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