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ruadath

Conquest Chapter 14 in 1 turn (no Rescue)

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Enjoy! Note that since I'm using sucky recording software, there is a big slowdown, so you should view the video at 2x speed.

Edited by ruadath

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Ah, shove abuse, how i have missed you so.

Also, what requirements have to be met to pull this off? It's a little hard to tell from the video.

Edited by sirmola

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Also, what requirements have to be met to pull this off? It's a little hard to tell from the video.

Oh, sorry about that. You need Niles to be in a flying class (or in other words, have someone with the Movement+1 Skill and be a flier), and to complete on the PP you need 2 shovers. If you have only one shover, I think you can still 1-turn it, but you'll need the boss to attack on the EP, which means rigging for Azura to dodge all the enemies who move to maul her (since they will probably attack first, I don't remember how it works).

EDIT: And you need someone competent enough to kill the boss at range. For me this was a... 21? Mag Jakob with C in Tomes and Trample. The requirements on this aren't actually so high because I didn't give Jakob any Tonics/Mess Hall bonuses, and you could also have Niles as a Malig Knight for pair up bonuses... so I guess (if my math is correct here), you can also do this with 12 Mag Bolt Axe!Camilla with a Mag Tonic, +1 Mag from Mess Hall, and a pair up from Niles (she gets an additional point of Mag due to their S support)... or something like that. I'm too lazy to test it out.

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Edited by ruadath

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There is no cap on support growth at My Castle. So I endured an extremely painful clock resetting process to get Camilla x Niles enough "talk" events so that their supports would build over chapters 11-13. The pain was slightly lessened by the fact that Camilla and Niles were paired up during my clears of Chapters 11 and 12 (you can't get to Hinoka/Ryoma in 2 turns without the bonus movement), but it still took over a week's worth of effort (and putting in a good few hours a day doing this... sadness). Note that this can't be automated due to the fact that their positions on the My Castle screen are random (or I suppose could be automated it if you found pointers to their locations on the map, but figuring out where that is stored seems difficult and I didn't try)

Near the end of this process, I realized that I ended up farming a decent number of Seeds of Trust while doing this, and that was extremely helpful in reducing the amount of time it took to get them from an A rank to an S rank. If I ever do something like this again, I'm probably just going to hack in the required number of Seeds of Trust to do the whole thing since this is pretty tedious and I've already proven that it can be done legitimately once so there's no need to waste time resetting endlessly again.

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There is no cap on support growth at My Castle. So I endured an extremely painful clock resetting process to get Camilla x Niles enough "talk" events so that their supports would build over chapters 11-13. The pain was slightly lessened by the fact that Camilla and Niles were paired up during my clears of Chapters 11 and 12 (you can't get to Hinoka/Ryoma in 2 turns without the bonus movement), but it still took over a week's worth of effort (and putting in a good few hours a day doing this... sadness). Note that this can't be automated due to the fact that their positions on the My Castle screen are random (or I suppose could be automated it if you found pointers to their locations on the map, but figuring out where that is stored seems difficult and I didn't try)

Near the end of this process, I realized that I ended up farming a decent number of Seeds of Trust while doing this, and that was extremely helpful in reducing the amount of time it took to get them from an A rank to an S rank. If I ever do something like this again, I'm probably just going to hack in the required number of Seeds of Trust to do the whole thing since this is pretty tedious and I've already proven that it can be done legitimately once so there's no need to waste time resetting endlessly again.

That's not legitimate. That would take years to do on console. At least the Jakob x Avatar S support in Chapter 7 takes a week or so in real life. Just because it's possible doesn't mean it's legitimate, and you seem surprisingly comfortable with hacking things.

And I don't see how you were able to 2 turn 11 and 12. MoogleBoss got 3 turns for 11 and 12 with bonus movement:

Edited by Horakthi

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That's not legitimate. That would take years to do on console. At least the Jakob x Avatar S support in Chapter 7 takes a week or so in real life. Just because it's possible doesn't mean it's legitimate, and you seem surprisingly comfortable with hacking things.

Well, it is legitimate, since supports can be grinded even in Conquest in MyCastle battles. So all you need is free skills castle with uneqipped units (there is at least one of these in top battle rankings for Europe).

I personally think that for the purpose of LTC grinding supports in the way i mentioned is pretty legitimate. Thus hacking them is also OK since you just save 30 minutes or so of finding and grinding respective MyCastles.

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That's not legitimate. That would take years to do on console. At least the Jakob x Avatar S support in Chapter 7 takes a week or so in real life. Just because it's possible doesn't mean it's legitimate, and you seem surprisingly comfortable with hacking things.

Yeah. I consider using a dark falcon wing or just buying MOV +1 to be a lot more legitimate than that.

Edited by sirmola

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Well, it is legitimate, since supports can be grinded even in Conquest in MyCastle battles. So all you need is free skills castle with uneqipped units (there is at least one of these in top battle rankings for Europe).

I personally think that for the purpose of LTC grinding supports in the way i mentioned is pretty legitimate. Thus hacking them is also OK since you just save 30 minutes or so of finding and grinding respective MyCastles.

You are right, but from what I have seen on Reddit from Gwimpage and Chiki, in Fates LTCs My Castle battles are banned and DLC battles are banned too. So the only way to do this on console would be to wait for several years. Not even joking. So this is illegitimate and practically impossible on console.

Suppose you can do it once every 50 attempts you reset. Camilla x Niles needs 15 conversations if it's 1 point per conversation (I guess they gain points in 11 and 12 too, but ignoring this for now) then it would take 50 x 15 = 750 days, or over 2 years. LOL

This is just cheating.

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Yeah. I consider using a dark falcon wing or just buying MOV +1 to be a lot more legitimate than that.

Well, in my book it's vise versa :)

The point of LTC is to utilize right skills, positioning and calculate exactly the units and stats you need for all battles with future strategy in mind. Buying skills or using rewards does give you sometimes gamebreaking advantage (like dual weapons or falcon wing) but grinding only supports... well, it's not like the author hides anything. So you can decide for yourself how much praise the TC should get. His strategy can be implemented without buying skills and using rewards weapons/classes, it's clever and nice so for me this video is cool and this approach is legitimate. You're free to think otherwise :)

I do agree that with support grinding prohibited it would've been harder to implemet this,but the core strategy is still nice. And it's nicer to grind supports than rely, say, on some 14% crit. The core strategy doesn't change.

Edited by Avestus

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And I don't see how you were able to 2 turn 11 and 12. MoogleBoss got 3 turns for 11 and 12 with bonus movement:

In my 0%-growths HM run, I planned out a two-turn clear of Chapter 12 requiring two Captured Pegasus Knights (only one is required if the Mess Hall is allowed); Haitaka with two level-ups gained in Chapter 10 (for Swap); promoted Kaze at base for his +5 Spd Pair Up (not required if the Mess Hall is allowed); and Corrin with a Dragon Talent, promoted to a Wyvern Lord, with a C Support with Camilla from grinding in Chapter 10. None of this should require a particularly great real-time investment if visiting other Castles for foodstuffs with which to recruit Prisoners, and should be possible in a continuous LTC playthrough, with or without growths.

(disclosure: I had trouble soft-patching my game with my 0%-growths patch a while ago because of a recent firmware update and so never tested the two-turn clear in full; I'll understand if you don't believe my description of the clear.)

With a Kaze Pair Up, one of the Pegs can start in range of the +4 Def pot and receive the boost before flying to break the center-left pot with a Javelin. With the +4 Def on the Peg, the two Samurai should be manipulated into attacking Peri (this I have NOT tested), who OHKOs in Attack Stance (with the Peg) thanks to a Bloodthirst boost from KOing the Ninja below the center pots during PP1.

I'll not describe the Sheltering logistics since my memory is hazy. Jakob, Peri, and Silas should all have it, though I don't remember if they all need to use it during PP1.

Camilla Pairs with Corrin on PP1 and gets Swapped by Haitaka before Switching, Lunging and OHKOing with a Hand Axe Enemy 28 in this link. In Attack Stance with Peri, Beruka can Lunge and OHKO Enemy 30.

This clear assumes that you manipulate Saizo into attacking Beruka from the center-left forest tile; as I pointed out earlier, I tested this particular manipulation in a file with growths back when I was still interested in finishing my 0%-growths playthrough. It has been a while since I played the game, so I might be wrong on this, but I don't think this manipulation is strictly necessary for a two-turn clear of this Chapter, and that it's required only for obtaining the Flame Shuriken.

During PP2, the Peg Knight carrying Kaze files onto the Dragon Vein and Transfers Kaze to Camilla in exchange for Corrin, who triggers the Dragon Vein. Camilla moves with Kaze. Azura must be ferried over to Beruka, who in turn flies with her max Mov to let Azura Sing for Camilla, who can ORKO the weakened Ryoma with a Spd Tonic, Str Tonic, and either Mess Hall usage or a Rally from Laslow's Personal Skill. Don't forget to grab the Flame Shuriken before the bosskill.

Well, in my book it's vise versa :)

The point of LTC is to utilize right skills, positioning and calculate exactly the units and stats you need for all battles with future strategy in mind. Buying skills or using rewards does give you sometimes gamebreaking advantage (like dual weapons or falcon wing) but grinding only supports... well, it's not like the author hides anything. So you can decide for yourself how much praise the TC should get. His strategy can be implemented without buying skills and using rewards weapons/classes, it's clever and nice so for me this video is cool and this approach is legitimate. You're free to think otherwise :)

I do agree that with support grinding prohibited it would've been harder to implemet this,but the core strategy is still nice. And it's nicer to grind supports than rely, say, on some 14% crit. The core strategy doesn't change.

I (and a handful of others) don't play this form of LTC absolutism precisely because it is so time-inefficient. If the concept of LTC comes from wanting to be efficient (in the everyday sense), then a clear requiring a great deal of time to execute, even after it has been conceived of, is not compatible with the concept of efficiency to me.

I won't knock anyone who plays this way, though; I enjoyed the video.

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Can't you just grind supports by repeatedly tanking attacks from a stationary enemy with a paired up unit?

Edit: Kept for posterity, I'm an idiot, that defies low turn counts.

Edited by Alastor15243

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Whoa, I didn't need to do anything so hardcore to 2-turn Chapter 12 (no Shove/Swap shenanigans). My clear isn't even particularly RNG reliant up to Azura dodging an attack from Kagero (with Spd Tonic, Mess Hall, and Kaze pair up she isn't doubled) and Camilla actually connecting both Dual Club strikes on Ryoma (which probably isn't even an issue since I think everyone is safe for EP combat, but Jakob might get shot down by the apothecaries).

I keep all my chapter saves, so I can go back and make a video if you want to see it (same goes for Chapter 11). Or I can post screenshot playthroughs (I already have those since Espinosa and I have been collaborating on this).

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With a decent machine it runs nearly full speed (at least on the maps for battling, obviously not during the cutscenes). It's only slowed down in these videos because I have neither the right recording software nor the right graphics card capabilities (in particular, Nvidia Shadowplay) to record without putting a ton of extra strain on my machine.

EDIT: Note that in order for it to run without various graphical glitches and to perform up to speed you probably want to be using one of the custom builds that have been forked off the main branch on github. The master is still a bit behind and will give you a fair amount of trouble, at least the last time I checked; they may have incorporated some of the new features by now.

Edited by ruadath

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Whoa, I didn't need to do anything so hardcore to 2-turn Chapter 12 (no Shove/Swap shenanigans). My clear isn't even particularly RNG reliant up to Azura dodging an attack from Kagero (with Spd Tonic, Mess Hall, and Kaze pair up she isn't doubled) and Camilla actually connecting both Dual Club strikes on Ryoma (which probably isn't even an issue since I think everyone is safe for EP combat, but Jakob might get shot down by the apothecaries).

I didn't allow myself growths, the Mess Hall, and the Private Quarters, and I wanted to avoid rigging dodges (which I have managed to do, but like I said, I haven't actually tested the clear, so there may be some unexpected AI behavior that ruins everything), so that restricts my options a bit. I use Swap once during each of PP1 and PP2.

Do you think Haitaka benefits absolute LTC in, for example, Chapter 16? I've read your brief description but haven't finished your video (so slow).

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Hmm, let's see. I should preface this by saying that under normal circumstances I don't think you can capture Haitaka while clearing Chapter 9 in the minimum amount of turns since it means getting Niles to ORKO Haitaka. But suppose you're absolutely insane and have no restrictions on Lottery/Forge (I placed them on my run since having +7 Iron Weapons floating around pretty much means anyone can kill anyone and things get boring real quickly after that). Base Niles has 15 Spd, so with a Spd Tonic and Mess Hall he can double Haitaka. Suppose you give him a +7 Iron Bow forge. So what is that, like 20 Mt? Tack on Niles' base Str of 9 and a Str Tonic, and you have 31 Atk... I don't remember if Haitaka has bonuses from his Seize tile or whatever, but rig a +4 Str talk bonus to Niles as well and he'll definitely be able to kill him. He gets Jakob as a a pair up too for insurance. Ok then.

So capturing Haitaka means you can train him in Chapter 10, so you can have 3 Shove/Swap users by the time chapter 14 rolls around. Perhaps you can have a 4th one if you can get Niles a free turn to capture one of the spear fighters in chapter 12, and then massively RNG abuse in Chapter 13 so that he can kill the Orochi and her mages with a Javelin without dying (at least he'll get WTA? but not on Orochi) instead of Kaze.

With 4 Shove/Swappers, you might just barely be able to do Chapter 16 in 1 turn without using Rescue. You'll definitely be able to do it with the Boots from Path Bonuses; I haven't mapped out how to do it without them, but that doesn't mean it's impossible since I haven't looked hard enough into it yet.

Let's say it's not possible. Does having the extra shovers/swappers save you turns elsewhere? I don't know. As far as Espinosa and I were aware, the only places Shove was beneficial was in Chapter 14 (where 1 Shove user is sufficient but 2 are nice) and Endgame (2 shovers allows you to 1 turn it without Rescue... I think). And I guess, it might be possible to 1-turn Chapter 27 without Rescue if you have 5-7 Shovers/Swappers (the exact number depends on things like whether or not you can kill Garon from range with a double Mjolnir Dragon Fang crit and the efficiency of a Shelter strat that I am far too lazy to test out). But then I stumbled upon this 1-turn clear of Chapter 16 totally by accident and it's not unreasonably far away from being done without Rescue.

So yeah, not really much of answer there, but maybe some food for thought. Of course, if you're allowing for +7 forged weapons, you have other stuff to worry about too, like teaching Niles Pass for lategame or weird stuff like that. Sadly, even my patience for this stuff has its limit and I don't foresee myself investigating this sort of thing for some time to come (if at all).

Edited by ruadath

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Hmm, let's see. I should preface this by saying that under normal circumstances I don't think you can capture Haitaka while clearing Chapter 9 in the minimum amount of turns since it means getting Niles to ORKO Haitaka.

I Captured him and seized on turn five (unless you have a four-turn clear in mind?) in my 0%-growths file, with no real cheese. On PP5, I had Odin Pair Up with Elise to attack Haitaka and inflict an Avo penalty with Heartseeker; then I had Silas attack alone (no Pair Up); and finally I had Niles with an Arthur Pair Up and Spd + Str + HP Tonics finish (Niles finished EP3 with 1 HP thanks to the HP Tonic). That same turn I had Effie break the wall with a Javelin and receive a Song and Chest Key from Azura to pilfer the Rescue. No dodges were necessary, but everything needed to hit; fortunately, none of the hit rates were particularly bad on their own (worst was like 68 disp hit...idr if this figure includes a Skill Tonic).

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With Wyvern Lord/Malig Knight!Jakob you can clear the chapter in 4 turns (and still get Rescue) pretty easily because Jakob can fly Corrin over to recruit Nyx and they can move over to break the wall on PP1.

In fact, with Malig Knight!Jakob and Wyvern Rider!Corrin, you can actually 3 turn the chapter, although in this case getting the Rescue staff means Azura has to dodge 2 ~80% hit attacks from the spear dude (she takes a hit from the bronze katana guy but she can survive it and can use her Vulnerary on the second turn). It's not awful to do (nothing close to the RD/Awakening RNG abuse) and I was able to pull it off without a terrible amount of fuss.

Note that this 3 turn requires use of the Disrobing Gale (for Nyx), in addition to either a Mag talk bonus for Jakob or a reasonably forged Fire tome (like +2, maybe +3 because you can't build both the Mess Hall and Forge at this point but at the same time you don't really need the Armory yet). Actually I think you can get around the Disrobing Gale thing if you promote Corrin, but I didn't want to do that.

Edited by ruadath

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Note that this 3 turn requires use of the Disrobing Gale (for Nyx), in addition to either a Mag talk bonus for Jakob or a reasonably forged Fire tome (like +2, maybe +3 because you can't build both the Mess Hall and Forge at this point but at the same time you don't really need the Armory yet).

That's also illegitimate since you're allowing visitor bonuses (or getting Disrobing Gale via My Castle convos which is also not allowed, it's not replicable). Can't you get a Boots and a Rescue staff via visitor/battle bonuses?

Neat, so four-turning with the Rescue is possible after all.

Here's a video of it from someone who posts LTC vids on Reddit.

I keep all my chapter saves, so I can go back and make a video if you want to see it (same goes for Chapter 11).

Chapter 12 seems easy to do in 2 turns actually, but let's see if you legitimately did Chapter 11 in 2 turns. That would be interesting.

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That's also illegitimate since you're allowing visitor bonuses (or getting Disrobing Gale via My Castle convos which is also not allowed, it's not replicable). Can't you get a Boots and a Rescue staff via visitor/battle bonuses?

I allow extremely limited Battle Rewards (the Disrobing Gale and Raider Axe) in my run since they save turns in Chapter 7/8 by allowing you to reclass to Corrin and Jakob to Wyvern Rider and Malig Knight respectively very early while having access to weapons (you can't build both the Staff Shop and the Dusk Armory before Chapter 7). As far as I'm concerned, this is no different than allowing for the Renown Second Seal and Orsin's Hatchet to get used as is common practice in Awakening LTCs.

If you disregard my no Lottery/Forge rule, you can probably get around the use of the Disrobing Gale here by giving Nyx a sufficiently forged crit-tome or something. In fact you don't even need that; IIRC, Corrin gets a DS on the one combat that Nyx takes part in, so just trading Nyx a Mag Tonic instead of a Spd Tonic and giving her a +2/3 Fire tome would be sufficient to get the job done.

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I dont care if its legitimate or w/e, i just think its cool to see the possibilities. And the clever use of game mechanics. Kind of stuff I'd never figure out how to do. Besides, if its theoretically possible after a few years, as has been stated, no one will care anymore when we have another new fire emblem by then... may as well do it now.

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