Is Fire Emblem really screwed up?

[Locke087]

In terms of gameplay not really Conquest is amazing, and if the gameplay in the next game is anywhere as good as that then that will be fine.

Everything else I'm not a fan of.... Story and Characters have gone greatly down hill in the 3DS entires (even if the stories were never all that great there were at least passable before hand imo). The series has also been indulging itself in greater portions of fat and nonsense such as my castle, temporary stat boosters, and grinding. The removal of weapon durability at the very least was an incentive for intelligence systems to finally balance out the weapons, but I don't view it as positive otherwise as forged iron weapons break the system, and in some way discourages a variety of weapon usage (i.e. is far better to invest into a single forged weapon then buy new weapons).

In short my feelings are that the series has a lot of positive directions it could move in, but it has large room for improvement. Hopefully the next entirety will exit from the shadow of awakening. As if intelligent systems is too afraid to remove themselves from the shadow that game then the series is in trouble, as it's going to stagnate.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Locke087

[BrightBow]

I have a great respect for past Fire Emblem games. I always felt that they did a good job of dealing with the subject of war in a good and responsible manner, one that humanized all sides involved but also wasn't so naive that one should never go to war ever. It provoked thoughtfulness and awareness of consequences on a topic were most people usually think in back and white terms. Not to mention the themes about the responsibility of those high on the social hierarchy.

And well, to keep a long story short, Awakening is a game that has the player burn thousands of people alive just because it wants yet another opportunity to kiss the player's ass. The game's utter disregard for the life of people outside your own monkey sphere is utterly shocking to me. The whole game is basically a creepy mix of No more Heroes and My little Pony. It's literally the most disturbing piece of entertainment media that I've ever experienced, not just because of the content itself but also because it lacks any kind of self-awareness about it. Like, one minute it gives speeches about friendship that would be embarrassing by 90s cartoon standards, the other it implies that Tharja may have raped Robin. And btw, this kinda stuff only got more concrete in Fates, like Jacob promising to Reikah that if she abandon her home and responsibilities, he will just kidnap her and force her into marriage (while still insisting that this does nothing but prove his love, of course) or Niles stating that even if we cry and scream he won't stop.

Edited June 28, 2016 by BrightBow

[Quintessence]

@quintessence. I thought you kind of liked fates when it came out? At least enough for you to temporarily change your profile picture to a Fates character. Or am I thinking of someone else?

Yes, I had Odin as profile pic for some time, and that was when I was going through CQ and BR, but I changed it, basically because I feel zero motivation to play them again. It happens the opposite with older titles, where I actually find what I miss in newer titles. Right now Awakening and Fates are benched on my shelf while I enjoy VC FE7, PoR or RD. And I even regret getting Fates DLC pack or even BR, where I could've easily gotten VC FE8.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

honestly as long as they focus less on fanservice and more on gameplay i'm down with how fire emblem is heading.

being able to marry your cousin's son is kinda messed up to be honest tho.

[Raguna]

While I'm not particularly interested or like the direction the new games are headed, I can still find faith in the series because if anything it's always had pretty nice gameplay even if it becomes broken after a while. I prefer a good story over gameplay but as a whole I just want less fanservice and more of reason as to why I should care for what's going on in the story. I'm not a fan much of self-insert avatars, but I can take them so long as people call them out on stuff they do wrong and they don't kiss the very feet in which they stand.

As it stands while I doubt we've really reached a magnum opus in this series, I want to see the next game try harder in attempting to integrate the player into the world and make them care for what they do in them.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Raguna

[Harvey]

Ok....just out of curiosity, what exactly do you guys mean fanservice in FE? I mean if the series is under fanservice, isn't that a good thing?

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

Ok....just out of curiosity, what exactly do you guys mean fanservice in FE? I mean if the series is under fanservice, isn't that a good thing?

when i say it, i mean stuff like "you can fuck anyone, including your cousin's son" or "the only gay options don't appeal to me and seem to be for the fujoshi crowd"

is it that hard to not program not having the option to fuck your cousin's son, or to have a strong attractive man like Benny be my gay husbando? why do i have to settle for mr Yaoi Man or nothing at all for my gay male option?.

i guess you could also say "its the kind of fan service that doesn't appeal to me"

[Harvey]

when i say it, i mean stuff like "you can fuck anyone, including your cousin's son" or "the only gay options don't appeal to me and seem to be for the fujoshi crowd"

is it that hard to not program not having the option to fuck your cousin's son, or to have a strong attractive man like Benny be my gay husbando? why do i have to settle for mr Yaoi Man or nothing at all for my gay male option?.

i guess you could also say "its the kind of fan service that doesn't appeal to me"

Umm.....I'm not able to catch your point here. Don't you have a choice of who you want to get married to someone else? I'm not able to see the issue there if the thing is optional let alone having additional content......

[Quintessence]

Ok....just out of curiosity, what exactly do you guys mean fanservice in FE? I mean if the series is under fanservice, isn't that a good thing?

Fanservice is content added to please fans, but the thing is that it is excessive and actually is (imo) a drawback for the game, for example:

Camilla's outfit

So many boobs (Charlotte)

So many ass (female class animations)

Animations

Female classes

Dark Mages (Odin)

Royal DLC (pictures of royals in the beach (wtf)), etc.

Edit: also, the Marriage system, Avatar, man the list has no end.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Quintessence

[Acacia Sgt]

So basically, they focus on just one or select types of fanservice, but neglect or put little of the other types?

Edited June 28, 2016 by Acacia Sgt

[Anacybele]

Ok....just out of curiosity, what exactly do you guys mean fanservice in FE? I mean if the series is under fanservice, isn't that a good thing?

In the most basic of terms, it's pretty much doing something for the sake of pandering to people's fetishes and interests. Sexualization of characters, for instance. I'm not against fanservice itself because it can be done right. But Fates just takes it way too far.

An example of fanservice done right to me is the beach DLC for Awakening. It's optional, on the side, and is even realistic to an extent (relaxing on a beach in swimsuits is something done in real life to get rid of stress and to have fun). Though Tharja's artwork for it was pushing it (she looks like she's about to pull her bikini down. And NoA's attempt to censor it fucked it over). Another thing done right is the hot spring in Fates. It's realistic too. People actually did use these in old times. It also works well for the units to do between battles, to relax and soothe their wounds.

Fanservice done wrong is Camilla. She's designed sexually, and she has a cutscene in Birthright where she shoves her boobs, ass, and crotch in your face. I doubt many people want this shit forced on them.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Anacybele

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

Umm.....I'm not able to catch your point here. Don't you have a choice of who you want to get married to someone else? I'm not able to see the issue there if the thing is optional let alone having additional content......

what choice?

i am not allowed to marry benny if i am a guy, i can hardly call this a choice, i don't want to marry niles, i wanna marry benny, as a guy.

In the most basic of terms, it's pretty much doing something for the sake of pandering to people's fetishes and interests. Sexualization of characters, for instance. I'm not against fanservice itself because it can be done right. But Fates just takes it way too far.

An example of fanservice done right to me is the beach DLC for Awakening. It's optional, on the side, and is even realistic to an extent (relaxing on a beach in swimsuits is something done in real life to get rid of stress and to have fun). Though Tharja's artwork for it was pushing it (she looks like she's about to pull her bikini down. And NoA's attempt to censor it fucked it over). Another thing done right is the hot spring in Fates. It's realistic too. People actually did use these in old times. It also works well for the units to do between battles, to relax and soothe their wounds.

Fanservice done wrong is Camilla. She's designed sexually, and she has a cutscene in Birthright where she shoves her boobs, ass, and crotch in your face. I doubt many people want this shit forced on them.

pretty much, heck it fails at pandering to all the fetishes so i can hardly say i have "choice" in what i want, give me fatties,if fire emblem wants to go down the path of fetishes then give me MY fetishes so i can stop feeling left out. Either that or stop pandering to fetishes all together, after all its only fair.

also let me please marry hot men like Benny and Arthur, as a guy, Niles is not my taste in men.

[Harvey]

Fanservice is content added to please fans, but the thing is that it is excessive and actually is (imo) a drawback for the game, for example:

Camilla's outfit

So many boobs (Charlotte)

So many ass (female class animations)

Animations

Female classes

Dark Mages (Odin)

Royal DLC (pictures of royals in the beach (wtf)), etc.

Edit: also, the Marriage system, Avatar, man the list has no end.

Ok....so basically, you don't want characters to have anything sexual? Is that the term for fan service?

I can understand how that can be a bit disturbing to some seeing as Nintendo is usually known for a friendly image and that it can be a bit jarring but its not anywhere as horrid as dead or alive now is it? But if it helps to develop a character like Camilla, I don't see how this can be an issue.

Even if her breasts were not so large or noticeable, she is still a great character. I guess to make her more appealing, they had to make her more attractive.

But hasn't FE always been about having some sort of dating sim since holy war?

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

But hasn't FE always been about having some sort of dating sim since holy war?

No it has not, my friend, there's hardly anything that can be called dating in FE4 since it doesn't even have support conversations, also there was no self insert.

i mean if this is what you think fire emblem is then i think you should emulate some of the older games, you seem to have a very misunderstood idea of what the franchise's roots were.

Edited June 28, 2016 by HF Makalov Fanboy Kai

[NinjaMonkey]

I'm hearing a lot of fans in general saying that Fire Emblem is now screwed up and that its not like how it used to be? Is that really true?

Yes, that's why I haven't bothered to get Fates, even though it's been out for a couple of weeks now.

[Loki Laufeyson]

fire emblem is largely the same as it's always been, i've just matured

Pretty much. The only difference is that current FE is a bit more inclusive and accessible. And i personally find that to be pretty awesome.

[Quintessence]

Ok....so basically, you don't want characters to have anything sexual? Is that the term for fan service?

I can understand how that can be a bit disturbing to some seeing as Nintendo is usually known for a friendly image and that it can be a bit jarring but its not anywhere as horrid as dead or alive now is it? But if it helps to develop a character like Camilla, I don't see how this can be an issue.

Even if her breasts were not so large or noticeable, she is still a great character. I guess to make her more appealing, they had to make her more attractive.

But hasn't FE always been about having some sort of dating sim since holy war?

No, I have nothing against characters being hot, attractive and whatnot. But Fates pushes it so far that it makes no sense.

[Magical Glace]

The biggest issue for me for the fanservice is how Sue-ish the "avatars" are. It's like reading a bad fanfic, except it's canon.

After that, the biggest issue is the characters just fitting one very specific trope and not developing at all. It's like the game is pandering to a different trope fetish per character.

[Harvey]

No it has not, my friend, there's hardly anything that can be called dating in FE4 since it doesn't even have support conversations, also there was no self insert.

i mean if this is what you think fire emblem is then i think you should emulate some of the older games, you seem to have a very misunderstood idea of what the franchise's roots were.

Well I played a bit of genealogy of the holy war which does have support conversations, are you perhaps talking about older than the SNES ones like NES?

Even so....I still don't get the issue here. Fire Emblem has had fanservice since the SNES period. Some less, and others more often.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

Well I played a bit of genealogy of the holy war which does have support conversations, are you perhaps talking about older than the SNES ones like NES?

Even so....I still don't get the issue here. Fire Emblem has had fanservice since the SNES period. Some less, and others more often.

it has talk events, it does not have support convos labeled c-a, heck FE6 was the first game that had supports.

i feel like i'm getting trolled and that i should stop posting in the thread.

[Harvey]

it has talk events, it does not have support convos labeled c-a, heck FE6 was the first game that had supports.

i feel like i'm getting trolled and that i should stop posting in the thread.

Oh my apologies....you see, I haven't gotten into a lot of FE since Awakening so I was just wondering what exactly is the problem.

Still though....its not anywhere bad compared to dead or alive....I feel.

[Raguna]

Well I played a bit of genealogy of the holy war which does have support conversations, are you perhaps talking about older than the SNES ones like NES?

Even so....I still don't get the issue here. Fire Emblem has had fanservice since the SNES period. Some less, and others more often.

Dude, just look at the design for characters in any FE game, even Awakening and compare that to Fates. Some designs in Awakening are silly or odd but I doubt any were meant to look or pander to a certain type of fetish. The dating sim aspect came with Awakening really as the supports from before relegated marriage to epilogues or second gen for Genealogy and you were barred to only getting one A support and probably 1 B or two C supports with a maximum of 5 to 6 characters.

Being Nintendo, I doubt we'll ever reach the level of Dead or Alive but you can see the tone has shifted more to please the eye in a bit too extravangant way. Like why do females lose their lower body armor for most Nohrian classes? If it weren't for Kagero's huge cleavage window, Hoshido pretty much does pretty well with classes that can look modest and great. Heck I like Rinkah's design and she's basically going in without a shirt, but hers is tasteful and fits her unlike say Camilla having three curtains around her hips and panties for riding a wyvern.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Raguna

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

Oh my apologies....you see, I haven't gotten into a lot of FE since Awakening so I was just wondering what exactly is the problem.

Still though....its not anywhere bad compared to dead or alive....I feel.

no problem then, yeah we'll never reach dead or alive.

I'm more disgruntled that my preferences aren't catered too, which i didn't care about in the previous games due to how they were structured.

meanwhile here is trying to appeal to everyone, while neglecting people like myself, i'd rather it go back to how it used to be if i won't get any special attention from the game.

note i did vote "no way' on this poll and i honestly do believe we're fine, i'm just salty about what i mentioned, it not a big deal.

Edited June 28, 2016 by HF Makalov Fanboy Kai

[sirmola]

For the "back to RD" argument... More mechanics doesn't necessarily mean more fun gameplay.

People like the broken 3rd tiers, but all it was was stat inflation and insta kill lethality with a different name.

The elevation would encourage empty choke point spamming gimmicks.

Conquest has been very creative in its map design and it was all properly scaled on each difficulty... more than I could say for Radiant Dawn's inflated system. Especially with the Laguz stats and transformation.

If you ignore the waifu and self insert stuff that is largely exaggerated save for a few (Etika and a newcomer in this forum come to mind) FE has been the same.

I really have to agree with this. (i should probably add that biorythems should go die in a fire). To quote Antoine de Saint Exupery: "It seems that perfection is attained not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to remove" Additional mechanics for their own sake are a bad thing, unless they fit the whole in some way. For example, the even/odd skills have the same general concept as biorythems, while synerjising better with the game than actual biorhythems would have.

[Harvey]

Dude, just look at the design for characters in any FE game, even Awakening and compare that to Fates. Some designs in Awakening are silly or odd but I doubt any were meant to look or pander to a certain type of fetish. The dating sim aspect came with Awakening really as the supports from before relegated marriage to epilogues or second gen for Genealogy and you were barred to only getting one A support and probably 1 B or two C supports with a maximum of 5 to 6 characters.

Being Nintendo, I doubt we'll ever reach the level of Dead or Alive but you can see the tone has shifted more to please the eye in a bit too extravangant way. Like why do females lose their lower body armor for most Nohrian classes? If it weren't for Kagero's huge cleavage window, Hoshido pretty much does pretty well with classes that can look modest and great. Heck I like Rinkah's design and she's basically going in without a shirt, but hers is tasteful and fits her unlike say Camilla having three curtains around her hips and panties for riding a wyvern.

Ok, so some armor parts are a bit silly and I agree that Camilla's lower body could use better design. But then again, Nintendo does crazy things that don't make a lot of sense in reality like Samus in a ball form....or Wario having strength while being fat at the same time.

I'm not saying that this reflects on some of the designs here.....I'm just saying that after this game, it probably will change for the better.

Honestly...I find it odd that NoA didn't bother to censor these things and yet they somehow censor the conversations and the petting game...... :|