Shin Megami Tensei Mafia The Second- Day 3

[Olivier]

People should stop calling Sharp a "waste of a slot". Call him scummy if you think he's scum, try to help him to come up with his own opinions by asking him questions if you just dislike what he's doing. But it's pretty insulting to say that to a player who is most likely new. When you say that you're not making the situation any better for him if he’s town, nor for the game if he’s scum.

I can see why people would suspect Sharp but I'm still quite sure he's town. I have considered cases against him and I don't see any reason why his actions would come from scum rather than honest newbtown. His tone still feels really townie to me, and I think I have a good idea of who he is.

@Bolt: What do you think about Hiiro now?

Saying that you think Bolt sounds townie is just weak, why does he sound townie?

It is weak, that's why I called it a town lean (in my reply to Brexit I believe). But I do find his tone townie on gut.

I'm also not feeling how this is different from Hiiro's anger? Are you saying that Hiiro's rageposts feel more townie because there's some content in there, as opposed to Santa? Because Santa did have content in the half-list he posted, sans his reply to you (and he's arguably showing his discontent towards Tether/Bolt too).

To put it more simply, in Hiiro's post the anger works as a means to relay content, and in Santa's post the content is just an excuse for the anger. Hiiro's post is very clear in spite of the emotional state he was in, Santa's bit on me is not clear at all. Santa's content in the rest of the post is irrelevant because he was just mad at me (I don’t see him being mad at Tether and Bolt, what), so obviously he won't talk about other players in the same way. Maybe you won’t see it either way, but I hope I explained myself well enough.

What do you think about Santa's rage?

[Olivier]

@Sharp: Thoughts on Upbeat, cutiefly and Best Girl right now? You suspected Brexit before, what do you think about his replacement? ISOs are on the first page, checking those will make it easier to follow their content in particular.

[Refakitty³]

Apologies for ending phase early I was making my post on the first page because of ISOs and I did not see that the hammer count was lowered. Making a post right now, but everything i said about

##Vote upbeat

still stands.

[Refakitty³]

I would consolidate on Tetsuo's case on Sharp.

Camilla what I was trying to say was that your content doesn't push me in one direction or the other, although your effort and tone leads me to town. I can rationalize why I would jump up in your priorities now.

See, little fella? You're able to be agressive and give your points without needing to demean anyone. Try it more often, it might help you :3

As of what you said in that incredibly long post, my answers is simply "meh".

You're doing exactly the same thing you accuse me of doing, only in a more shiny way.

Half your posts are nothing but "Oh, hey, I'm late, I was busy, etc, etc".

Only your last 3 post are "content", as you call it, where you basically just make readlists. If that's what you feel is "Oh My Dog, what a content!" then you just had to say it!. I would immediatly create long posts with tons of words on it and reads, that ultimately would just fly by with little to no effect. Like yours! See, the truth is, you have absolutely nothing against me other than "lack of content" and the fact that I think Camilla is a Townie.
Oh, and that I was honest with y'all when I said I had no reason to vote YHVH.

If that's enough for you to cast a vote, feel free, dawg! But let me tell you, you're getting nowhere on this alley.

This is terrible and I shouldn't have to explain why. Completely misrepping and trying to trivialize the case on him.

And my boss wants me earlier today... so I will give you a quick priority list and explain it later.

Town: Tetsuo, Best Girl, Camilla

Townish: Brexit, Hiiro

Null: Bolt, Bast, Tether

Scumish: Cutiefly (isn't scum with upbeat),

Scum: Upbeat, Sharp

[Refakitty³]

Fly Amanita should be in Scumish.

Left to right, towniest.

[Olivier]

Camilla what I was trying to say was that your content doesn't push me in one direction or the other, although your effort and tone leads me to town

Really? I don't buy it:

it feels weird that it jumped over you actual scum reads.

And I don't see where you were trying to say I was townie either.

I was making my post on the first page because of ISOs and I did not see that the hammer count was lowered.

ISOs were added to the first page yesterday, so that's outright not true. If you didn't see Marth's post about lowering the hammer count then how did you know about the state of things at the moment? Did you just decide to vote YHVH when he just had >3 votes on him without checking what else was going on?

Why is Fly Amanita worse that Tether, when they both have done nothing?

[Olivier]

Forgot to say this, but I'm ok with Tetsuo right now. Same situation as Bolt.

why are you town-reading Camilla?

What is so important about this? How will a reply be indicative of alignment? And yeah, as I said I don't think townreading me on asking for an extension is good and it's fine to point it out. I just don't see where you're getting at.

[Violet Evergarden]

Ugh, sorry. So Monday I had 5 minutes before work to make the post I did and then I was busy all day and then I come back to that... wall. from Hiiro and very nearly snapped back at them in fit of emotions. So I leave it for the night, then super busy all day yesterday, crash, rinse and repeat. But I'm here now.

I *really* *really* *really* don't like it when people react like Hiiro did and am honestly very tempted to just leave my vote on them as a policy thing at this point because that was a major overreaction and seriously not ok. Ugh. Add that to the fact that he didn't actually expand on scum hunting in his massive wall post, just responded at people who voted him.

Ugh everything else, I don't even know.

Brexit sub seems fine.

Tetsuo seems to be giving pretty logical arguments and thoughts, fine with this slot for now, same with Camilla.

Sharp's posting feels off to me. Their arguments aren't really focused on scumhunting. They're doing a lot of saying why they aren't scum, and saying why some people are townie, but very little actual discussion of why someone is scum. They haven't actually voted today which is pretty suspect since why wouldn't you vote for someone? Would not be opposed to this lynch I guess?

Uh, Best Girl seems alright, need to wait a bit before making a final judgement here though. Same with Bolt.

Everyone else feels really forgettable to me, I need to go digging through stuff more...

[Shiki Ryougi]

So much for being super sub =/ real life stuff happened my b.

@Sharp: If Camilla had requested the extension then I would be inclined to agree but everyone would look at Marth's extension proposal as something to jump at, both for seeming good and for BEING good. Mafia clearly doesn't suit you though, you're far too honest and nice (if town).

Tetsuo is probably town the concern they seem to have for Sharp's sheeping feels legit and the breakdown of posts was great. Sheeping alone is fine but they have no content, nor do they seem that eager to produce any, and that's the main issue for me. Sharp have you still got nothing on Hiiro? What about the various arguments against him, do you think the logic is bad or simply unconvincing?

Hiiro you said you targeted a scum read? Why did you target Azure over Bolt/Best girl? It didn't even seem like you had anything against Azure yesterday and you even responded to their post? It's not about being petty it's about getting answers, why is pushing nobody better than pushing cutiefly for answers. Yes pushing someone you don't necessarily want lynched is better than pushing nobody. The fact that other people were getting off her wagon because of the claim is actually worse for you because then clearly she wasn't in any position to get lynched regardless if she had a stray vote on her.

Not convinced by any of your defences really. What about best girl's stuff to you? Your defence against Bolt is equally tragic, people miss posts all the time so it's unreasonable to ask why they didn't push you for it then, and other people agreeing with your logic doesn't make your logic good: they could be equally bad. Most of your defence is you getting mad or by inducing ad hominem through insult or calling your attacker scummy.

The only saving grace is Bolt didn't actually have that much on you. I saw like 10 quotes and I didn't bother to read all of them so I kinda assumed he had more.

Scum rage = Santa, Town rage = Hiiro. Even if Hiiro was just as annoyed, or more, than Santa, the actual thoughts are there and they're just as important.

I can accept your read into Santa's tone, it's a good point actually, but I believe there's more to it than "actual thoughts" or not. I think it's very easy to fake what Hiiro just posted as scum: his argument against Bolt is --->basically<---(not quite) an OMGUS and he still hasn't delivered on his case against best girl which is like well over 48 hours late. He is putting off in-depth reasoning for the sake

Actually Hiiro you thought Bolt was scum before his quote wall, why is that?

Feeling better about Camilla after their response. I can definitely empathise with the "drawn out RVS" line of thought and mafia are less inclined to go "I can't remember

Santa's last post is filler yay. I eagerly await the actual justification behind any of it, and what you have to say about today's discussion. I read a bit, why can't beat and cutie be on a scum team? Also looking forward to hearing why Hiiro is town, I expect you to explain why the points against him are unconvincing though.

Hiiro/Sharp for scum, possibly Santa too (I like Camilla's stuff on them) but want to see more from them first-hand. Still need to read Cutiefly's ISO but anything found won't be relevant right now anyway which is killing my motivation (get it? Top kek).

[Olivier]

I think it's very easy to fake what Hiiro just posted as scum: his argument against Bolt is --->basically<---(not quite) an OMGUS and he still hasn't delivered on his case against best girl which is like well over 48 hours late.

I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on this. Still, what I find townie is not just the tone and the content by themselves, but rather the way they combine.

[Marisa Kirisame]

Zzz sorry everyone whenever I tried to read yesterday my brain just noped out so I held off posting in hopes of producing something that's not completely terrible later! I don't know if I'll manage it or not.
Hiiro's saltposting is probably town based on who he is.

Best Girl's enormous wall against Hiiro and then voting elsewhere essentially cements them as obvtown for me now. There's no reason for maf to write all of that shit about him and then vote elsewhere when he has a perfectly good case to use. The only reason he'd do it as maf is if he was covering for a buddy but I don't really suspect Hiiro after what just happened anyway.

Santa's vote is cool except for the fact that he completely ignored my last post completely and there was quite a lot there (so it's cool at all actually!). I'm pretty sure I even replied to him there too so like... there's no way you can ignore it like nothing happened.

I think I need to full reread to get back into the game properly (I don't really know where I stand on a lot of people right now) but that'll have to come later.

[Marisa Kirisame]

And Camilla I'm clicking your sig but nothing's happening please send help!

[Sham]

What is so important about this? How will a reply be indicative of alignment? And yeah, as I said I don't think townreading me on asking for an extension is good and it's fine to point it out. I just don't see where you're getting at.

Because if Sharp can't give a good reason why he's townreading you, then he's being exceedingly lazy, or, if he's scum, he's hiding behind your opinions for towncred. Both options don't sound very good, but if he can legitimately explain why he's townreading you I think it puts him in a better light because at the moment... he really has nothing.

desperately need a few people to show up now - mostly Cutie, also Sharp, and all the inactives (it's only 2 now, right? that's below average for an SF game). We've got only about 24 hours left and I don't think we're anywhere near agreeing on a lynch.

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

@Bolt: What do you think about Hiiro now?

To put it more simply, in Hiiro's post the anger works as a means to relay content, and in Santa's post the content is just an excuse for the anger. Hiiro's post is very clear in spite of the emotional state he was in, Santa's bit on me is not clear at all. Santa's content in the rest of the post is irrelevant because he was just mad at me (I don’t see him being mad at Tether and Bolt, what), so obviously he won't talk about other players in the same way. Maybe you won’t see it either way, but I hope I explained myself well enough.

What do you think about Santa's rage?

I'm mixed on Hiiro. I'm basically stuck player-meta'ing the post rather than interpreting it. If I look at the post based on who I think it is, I get a slight town-read. If I look at the post based on content, I see lots of laziness and overreaction to nothing, which is indicative of heavy scumreads galore. I think in general, while I agreed with your thoughts here, after putting more thought into it, I'm simply more mixed-leaning-scum.

Weighing them both has me leaning towards the latter only because I've seen said player's outbursts occur regardless of alignment, which still leads me to identify his explosion with more bursts of laziness and/or frustration-type defenses rather than scumhunting. Strangely enough, I'm finding more concern in this post right now rather than his gigantic post, simply because it reads to me more as a crack under pressure, kind of like when newer scum crack early-game when they amass a couple of votes. it was two votes at the making of that post.

Also I know this wasn't directed at me but I'm not seeing the rage in any of Santa's posts really. Something in particular about Santa feels off though, in that they've repeated the same points in most of their posts. I think it's mostly the constant feeling of Half-made posts that don't feel like they really had to be half posts, when by now, we could've had a more concise read list given to us about scumreads, rather than an alphabetical analysis left half done and an unexplained tier list.

The short versions is that I'm done mixing my thoughts on Hiiro and I'm back to scumreading the slot, I'm scumleaning Santa primarily due to things that I've admittedly done as scum (this is probably my weakest read, but I still think it's worth throwing out there since it crossed my mind and all), and I'm still scumreading cutiefly due to nothing having changed since my prior post covering their antics. I'm allowing myself one lazy read per game, and while it's borrowing a solid chunk from Tetsuo, I could throw this one on the campfire to call it a night, mainly since even after accepting being called out calmly and politely, Sharp still doesn't come back with anything really...helpful to the advancement of the game. I don't really have a problem with the townread on Camilla, but the lack of anything else substantial by now seems is a bit difficult to swallow from the perspective of town. By now, as town, I'd expect almost randomly placed paranoia-induced scumreads at the absolute minimum. It strikes me as discomfort...there must be a reason why Sharp isn't developing and/or posting scumreads. I just can't see that coming from town.

Since cutiefly hasn't gotten back to me or the game in general, I think I'll switch my vote to someone more likely to respond and also more likely to be scum, so I will!

##Unvote

##Vote Sharp

[Kamina]

I motivated Camilla N1, but I haven't had internet access since then.

My lack of internet kinda drained some of my will, but I can possibly reread soon.

[Cú Chulainn]

Geez, people.

I love y'all, but lynching me over being far too lenient is a bit of a stretch :P

I'll give you what you want, then.

@Sharp: Thoughts on Upbeat, cutiefly and Best Girl right now? You suspected Brexit before, what do you think about his replacement? ISOs are on the first page, checking those will make it easier to follow their content in particular.

Answering this on the way down :3

By the way, I feel extremeley weird "judging" people, so sorry if I end up sounding extremely hypocrite considering my current situation :/

Instead of your usual Townie/Scummy, I'll give you a scale of X/5, where the lower the number, the lesser of a threat they are for the Town at my eyes.

This includes not only the chance of being a Mafia member, but also a freelancer evil guy or something :)

Santa: I feel weird towards him. He likes to be assertive, I guess, that's... something? His voting pattern seems to be getting around upbeat every now and then, but sometimes he kinda pretends some posts were not directed at him and ignores'em. I'll give him a 3/5

Upbeat: He seems to kinda float around, make some sayings, vote someone who's already voted, and then float back up. I like his attitude, relaxed and all. But I still feel that claim Day 1 was out of place, so.... 4/5

Bast: I have no idea. Really, I don't

Best Girl: Honestly, I feel super uneasy about her. Her post are all so logical and well explained, so... calculated. Like, every word comes out in a perfect spot. It's like a machine talking. But she does asks the right questions, all the time. People (including me, I just noticed) seem to ignore her for some reason. Weird, but safe weird 2/5

cutiefly: She's cool, and her claim (should it be confirmed) will be a sure spot to hold on, I guess 1/5

Sharp: Lovely Townie that deserves only the sweetest of meads :3 1/5

B-Cup Camilla: I still thinks she's the most Townie out of the bunch. She constantly posts about asking questions to people, instead of just stepping on'em like the miserable flies we're. That encourages us to talk and loose the fear of going out to play a propper game, I guess. She's being productive and has helped the Town by fighting that extension. Everyone will say "BVut Sharp, that could be a Mafia bait". Cool beans, then keep'em coming, because that sorta saved us. There was no activity up unbtil that point, and Day 1 would have been wasted. Anyone saying that's not true, looses a point for being a meanie. 1/5

Azure Blood: Haven't seen anything from him since Day 1

Fly Amanita: Who?

Bolt: Cool beans. He seems to be on the nice boat of jumping votes around. His posts are long, and (surprisingly) not repetitive, He makes clear cases, against anyone, really. 2/5 (would be 1/5, but not trusting Camilla is wrong to me)

Tether: Who?

Tetsuo: Oh, the absolute madman. I like you, you know? I appreciate people who bark to every tree on the park, it makes people talk (I'm living proof, haha :P ) even if the bark is completely misdirected. The problem is, this also makes you impossible to locate. You had your suspicions on me from Day 1, even though there are much more people who did absolutely nothing so far. I think you just smelled a weak player, without much confidence, and decided to try it out on me. Good job, but bad, bad dog >:( 3/5

Brexit: I guess my concerns with him Day 1 were basically, pointless. Probably just the player's life getting on the way, really. New Brexit is cool, but sparse. You'll be lucky if you find him. But I like new Brexit. 2/5

Hiiro: His defense was so perfect. A bit enraged (understandable) but perfect. I felt the frustration of knowing everyone is in the wrong about you. ANd the explanations were on point. 1/5

I'm sorry that my "Readlist" (and I use that term very loosely) isn't more... assertive. I don't feel okay judging people when my performance is being far from stellar in some people's opinions. And I can't help but to work on honesty and feels.

This is what I can give you, my lovely Town.

If you see the Sharp side of the Page, by every First time, there should be an answer to your wonderings.

##Vote: Upbeat

[Olivier]

I will probably be away at deadline. Only people I'd lynch are Santa (duh) and maybe Cutie. I'm rereading the game (very slowly, still at page 8) and I don't like how she didn't care about the YHVH lynch, it's as if any lynch could have cut it. Motivator doesn't go very well with chain follower and an announcer tracker-like role either, in addition to what I'll explain below now. Consider this a summary, I'll (hopefully) explain it properly later on.

I will most likely be away at deadline. I'll try to consolidate before leaving though.

I motivated Camilla N1, but I haven't had internet access since then.

I can confirm this is the case. Why did you choose to motivate me? I find it weird that your action went through though, if you are town wouldn't scum try to roleblock you? If someone else was roleblocked they should consider claiming it because it'd make no sense to roleblock someone other than her in my opinion.

And Camilla I'm clicking your sig but nothing's happening please send help!

My sig may not work but fear not, you can always google it yourself!

[Olivier]

Because if Sharp can't give a good reason why he's townreading you, then he's being exceedingly lazy, or, if he's scum, he's hiding behind your opinions for towncred.

Sure but do you seriously think scum would have trouble coming up with a legit reason to townread someone? This looks like a stretch.

also, @Best Girl (again): What do you think about Santa?

Given the Sub-out call, do you think that Brexit just wasn't paying that much attention? At the time, I can see the thought occurring, but I'm more likely to believe the opposite, after burstreading the thread just now.

I've spent 10 minutes trying to understand what you mean here but I still can't. Could you explain it again?

You're the one who was caught visiting me, and since I have nothing on me that I know of due to your role, why should I sit here and panic in public when you're the one who has the fire lit under your feet?

Why would you panic about being visited? Why the "in public" mention? These questions definitely need an answer because from my point of view it looks like you're scum considering your reaction on a guilty result on you.

@Hiiro: Which were your reasons to scumread Bolt before he posted content?

[Olivier]

This looks like our only lynch today.

##Unvote

Vote: YHVH

She didn't have much of a choice regarding who to lynch but this looks like she didn't care at all. Basically agreeing with Upbeat here. Still, not sure if this is an indicator of a passive approach to the game or a scumtell, since there wasn't much of a reaction to the pressure on her either.

With regards to roles, I'm basically assuming either motivator or announcer here is scum because considering the chain follower it seems like a of investigative power. That, and Hiiro has a role that's potentially harmful for his scumreads. I'm assuming motivator since the action went through; if I were scum the first thing I'd think about would be roleblocking the town motivator, and scumteam having no roleblock-like roles would be dumb. I guess scum could always have a lot of investigative protection but that still doesn't explain why the action went though.

[Olivier]

VOTALS

Sharp(3): Tetsuo, Best Girl, Bolt
Hiiro(2): Bast, Brexit

Upbeat (2): Santa, Sharp
cutiefly(1): Upbeat
Bolt(1): Hiiro
Santa(1): B-Cup Camilla

Not Voting(3): Tether, cutiefly, Fly Amanita

You have about 3 hours, 30 minutes until phase end. It takes 7 votes to lynch someone.

[Olivier]

I'm not going to change my vote unless people show up before deadline. I don't suspect cutie/Bolt that much and I don't think people would prefer those lynches rather than Santa so there's no point. Voting anyone else to consolidate is also out of the question unless more people show up and that's the only way to secure a lynch. I'll be around for a bit less than 3 hours.

[Marisa Kirisame]

Upbeat: He seems to kinda float around, make some sayings, vote someone who's already voted, and then float back up. I like his attitude, relaxed and all. But I still feel that claim Day 1 was out of place, so.... 4/5

I don't get this. The only thing of substance in this whole thing is that I had an out of place claim, but this only holds if you think I'm very ballsy scum trying to get off a quick lynch!

Regardless I don't feel like Sharp's post is bad in a scummy way and I can see them making it as newbie town. I don't really suspect Hiiro anymore either which is awkward. Need to do other things for a while but will be around in deadline. Pls lynch cutie people.

[Violet Evergarden]

I have a theory for what bolts role is that wouldn't preclude a motivator but I'm also not sure what alignment it would be so it's a null thing for me.

Ugh, I'm not a fan of cutie lynch but it doesn't look like it's going anywhere else?

[Violet Evergarden]

Of course it also doesn't look like a cutie lynch is going anywhere either so

[Sham]

I'm fine with Sharp or Hiiro, I think. I'm not so strong on the Upbeat/cutie role shenanigans...

I feel... nothing from Santa. Like I don't see anything from him that screams scummy; he just fucked up end D1 really badly. Unless this is still regarding the semi-annoyed tone he's had for most of the game but I don't think that's good enough of a reason to lynch him.

it's so fuckin hard to read people when nobody's around