Jump to content
HF Makalov Fanboy Kai

chapter 25 hoshido, what on earth is this?

Recommended Posts

it looks like an easy map, but then I play it and its like "oh shit i gotta split up my people because of shit tons of reinforcements"

then I end up spreading myself out too thin and i fail to notice the ENTRAP staff from the strategist.

also random berserk crits can fuck themselves.

alright so, whats the ideal way to handle this, i assume its not splitting up dispite how the stage is layed out, do i need whats in the chests or can i ignore them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ryoma.png

No really. That's how you win. Have him go **** stuff up, and then open the boxes. Also, if you aren't using it, you should be using the Pair Up on this fight. There's too many units to have you not being a form of a wall for everyone else. If you can, get Ryoma to marry someone with Samurai/Swordmaster and he'll get Mercenary for Sol.

Edited by Augestein

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My strategy for that map was this:

Ryoma with a lot of tonics and rallies goes to the right and kills enemies until the reinforcements stop, a very beefy Silas goes to the left with a Beastkiller and basically stays there for the rest of the map. Everybody else took out the middle Generals with Sting Shuriken and I let Corrin get Entrap chained into the middle section of the map just to activate the DV. After that, everybody rushed into the middle section and my Avatar carved a way for Ryoma to kill Iago.

Getting Entraped in the middle section was actually pretty safe because Yato gives +10 Avoid and you can pair Corrin up with someone like Jacob for another +15. The Sorcerors had the best hit rates on him and it was still just ~20%.

Chest items are the Pursuer(S-rank Bow), a Grand Festal, Boots and the Waterwheel (S-rank Lance). Both Legendaries are in my opinion good but far from necessary to beat the game because C26 is a 1-turn, C27 a Ryoma solo and Endgame a 1-turn.

Edited by Cyas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Late game Birthright is honestly kind of BS because of how everything ends up playing out. The majority of Hoshido characters rely on dodging to avoid getting killed, and with Fates' famously finicky RNG this can be a problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I honestly don't remember a single map in Birthright that gave me even slight trouble. I do remember this one, what I did was just turtle it out until the Strategists come galloping down toward you. At that point, you'll have killed off a bulk of the on-map enemies and you can rush them before entrap becomes an issue. Patience is one way, but the other way is to just make sure the unit who gets entrapped can hold themselves very well against a bunch of Berserkers and magic attacks. Ryoma really does break the game in Birthright, so using him is a given.

I played through Birthright all six times (so far) on Lunatic, so I don't know what difficulty you're going at it on, but that was my method. If you think this map sucks, try Conquest Hard/Lunatic Chapter 10. That fucking SUCKED.

Late game Birthright is honestly kind of BS because of how everything ends up playing out. The majority of Hoshido characters rely on dodging to avoid getting killed, and with Fates' famously finicky RNG this can be a problem.

By finicky do you mean accurate? This is one of the first FE games to have an RNG where 50% is actually 50%. There's no true hit bullshit or easily predicting/manipulating the RNG like you could do in older games. The RNG in Fates is actually RANDOM. Even a 10% hit chance still hits 1 in 10 times, and it's not always 1 in 10, just like how flipping a coin can yield heads ten times in a row. It's unlikely, but possible. Using confirmation bias to choose to remember only the times when enemies hit you on low odds will warp your perspective. You can get 50 crits in a row on a 2% chance. It's EXTREMELY unlikely, but you can. In older FE titles low %'s were screwed because of true hit, which conditions you to false percentages because you'd rarely see 40% hit chance enemies ACTUALLY hit, but you'd see 75%+ hit chances land nearly every time.

I encourage you to download an RNG viewer for the GBA titles during emulation just so you can physically witness how bullshit the RNG in those games actually was. It was NEVER random. Two numbers kind of breaks the system, not to mention how the game draws it's NEXT values isn't exactly random either.

I grew overtime (as in over 100+ play throughs of each game, been with FE for 13 years) to hate the older titles at times. Namely the GBA series. They were great games until you played them SO much you literally had guessing the RNG down to a science, which is entirely possible when the RNG isn't actually random and you can accurately guess the next set of numbers by adding in the numbers you just got in combat. Not to mention RNG abuse is stupendously easy in those games.

Edited by Mikhail Naumov

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well i actually am doing this on hard, i did conquest hard on chapter 10 and that was pretty tough too.

i think the reason why birthright is giving me issues here is that i'm not grinding and I definitely prefer the unit types on conquest in comparison, i have never been a believer on "dodge is better then defense"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well i actually am doing this on hard, i did conquest hard on chapter 10 and that was pretty tough too.

i think the reason why birthright is giving me issues here is that i'm not grinding and I definitely prefer the unit types on conquest in comparison, i have never been a believer on "dodge is better then defense"

It doesn't help that Hoshido maps like to cluster enemies in such a way that you're stuck being dogpiled on at moments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By finicky do you mean accurate? This is one of the first FE games to have an RNG where 50% is actually 50%.

Not true. True hit was not a thing untill fe6. Also, 50% displayed is actualy 50% even with true hit. The same is true for 0 and 100. Everything else is skewed though.

Additionaly, I belive that the RN regression thread has shown that there is some behind the scenes trickery going on, although when i last checked, they were not sure precissely what. Is is not true hit, but It is also NOT just the simple one random number method that you mean by "accurate".

As for chapter 25, i had fewer issues with it than chapters 23 and 24. (26 is trival to 1-turn, BTW)

Edited by sirmola

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 50% was just a random number I pulled out of my ass, that wasn't the point. I'm aware that FE1-FE5 used one RNG number draw, FE6-FE12 used two and FE13 and FE14 are back to one. Either way, the RNG is much more functional than it was in 6-12, there's no way to deny that. The 6-12 RNG will condition you to false percentages. I cannot take "There appears to be something wrong, but nobody can prove it." as functional evidence for it not being accurate. You can easily prove the RNG in 6-12 is not random. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the RNG system still isn't perfect or 100% accurate, but it's leagues better than the bullshit I faced in 6-12 because once you play those games for years you can literally guess the next numbers, and on top of that you can lose numbers by RNG move tile abuse.

Well i actually am doing this on hard, i did conquest hard on chapter 10 and that was pretty tough too.

i think the reason why birthright is giving me issues here is that i'm not grinding and I definitely prefer the unit types on conquest in comparison, i have never been a believer on "dodge is better then defense"

I didn't grind in Birthright either, I don't grind ever, not unless it's expected grinding (for example, the Villager class, or catching up piss poor units that you literally have to grind to make functional) so I'm not sure what your issue is without actually watching you play your own way since we're all different. If I remember correctly the entrap wielders will eventually leave their position at the top of the map and draw in closer, so if you turtle it out until that point you can knock off a majority of the reinforcements and then even if one does warp you, the danger is minimal.

I remember positioning my units on the very edge of the entrap staff ranges in sort of a zig-zag formation. It only took a few turns of Takumi and Ryoma to completely wreck the reinforcements and the Wyvern units that were already there coming down from the left (with the aid of some other units of course, support roles) and I just hard turtled it on the right until the Strategists came running down into range. If they're not immediately in range when they run out and there's still a bit too many enemies up there for you to be comfortable risking a warp, simply retreat back out of range. Try your best to anticipate the range AFTER they move by comparing their movement range to your positions along with the entrap staff range.

Maybe I just look at too many details, I'm a notoriously slow FE player. Lunatic mode and some of the older titles has conditioned me to play like a grandpa because I actively avoid any real chance of risk.

Edited by Mikhail Naumov

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chapter 25 in Birthright and Conquest are both awful in their own ways (not that far in Revelations so can't say the same for 25 in that route).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IIRC, I had married Azura, so Kana!F and Shigure used dragonstones to tank the left side. Ryoma paired with his wife (IDK who) and Hinoka with a Guard Naginata worked the right. MU, Takumi, and others cleared out the middle on the first turn and then split off to help whatever side needed it. I turtle-pushed out the two sides and up to the chest. MU got caught by the Entrap, but it didn't end well for the enemies..

It was Birthright Hard, but in the game's defense, I was ridiculously overleveled as I had been grinding EXP DLC for skills and for fun. About 1/2 of my team was Lv 35+ promoted, and MU and Azura were paired up with every good offensive activation skill I had access to + Aegis&Pavise + Hoshidan Unity + Nohrian Trust. GG, Nohrian scum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IIRC, I had married Azura, so Kana!F and Shigure used dragonstones to tank the left side. Ryoma paired with his wife (IDK who) and Hinoka with a Guard Naginata worked the right. MU, Takumi, and others cleared out the middle on the first turn and then split off to help whatever side needed it. I turtle-pushed out the two sides and up to the chest. MU got caught by the Entrap, but it didn't end well for the enemies..

It was Birthright Hard, but in the game's defense, I was ridiculously overleveled as I had been grinding EXP DLC for skills and for fun. About 1/2 of my team was Lv 35+ promoted, and MU and Azura were paired up with every good offensive activation skill I had access to + Aegis&Pavise + Hoshidan Unity + Nohrian Trust. GG, Nohrian scum.

This, minus the getting entrapped and having over leveled characters, was essentially how I did it as well. Except I used Ryoma paired up with his wife Rinkah for wicked Defense and Strength boosts along with Takumi to basically steamroll the left flank of enemies. I also used my Kaze (who turned out exceptionally well, I also used virtually every energy drop I had on him to increase his strength up into the 30's, I also had his defense up into the mid 20's with Dracoshields. Combine this with exceptionally growths due to the right luck and Kaze was probably my best character on that run) to pick off a lot of the enemies Takumi or Ryoma either couldn't one turn (this was VERY few, usually due to a miss) or enemies they couldn't target that turn.

Edited by Mikhail Naumov

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Getting Ryoma entrapped up is the faster way, but you'll likely miss the chests. They aren't a huge deal if you aren't making a postgame file and is doing nogrind, though, because nobody has the ranks to use waterwheel and pursuer anyway. I /think/ there might be a boots that could be useful for ryoma to solo 27 faster or something.

If you want to do it the slow way, what I did was have 3 pairs on each side and azura + healers going back and forth. The reinforcements are staggered, so your healers shouldn't be too overloaded. On the left, since it's all physical units, I put up a wall of physical tanks (Rinkah, Shiro, and Oboro, the latter 2 with Guard Naginata). It's notable that Oboro and Shiro also have Speed Seal and Def Seal. On the right since it's mixed enemies, I had Hinoka and Ryoma do most of the tanking and I forget either Kaze or Saizo as the last of the wall. Probably Saizo---that was the side without bow knights and he could use Horse Spirit since I made him a magic user.

Anyway the 3x2 wall configuration was good enough (with calculated positioning shifts) to take the initial waves and then after that is trivial. Ninjas gun for chests and Ryoma wreck down middle by himself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By finicky do you mean accurate?

You're missing my point. My point is that, as the RNG isn't quite as biased to higher numbers, dodge-tanking isn't nearly as effective as in the GBA games for instance, unless you manage to get that glorious 0% hit rate which even Ryoma has a hard time doing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ryoma doesn't just dodgetank though. Along with his high avo, he still has vantage + high crit + astra + dual guard. I've done multiple runs on Lunatic and throwing Ryoma at the right side always worked. Yes he can die, but unless you're doing an ironman, there's no reason not to try. I'm pretty sure his success rate is higher then his fail rate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ryoma doesn't just dodgetank though. Along with his high avo, he still has vantage + high crit + astra + dual guard. I've done multiple runs on Lunatic and throwing Ryoma at the right side always worked. Yes he can die, but unless you're doing an ironman, there's no reason not to try. I'm pretty sure his success rate is higher then his fail rate.

I actually did just that in my Lunatic BR Iron-man run. With ~100 Avoid, ~50HP and effectively 30 Def (factoring in tonics, rallies, meals, pair-up etc), there's nothing to worry about. He never even reached Vantage range. That just goes to show that you can solve practically any problem in BR with Ryoma.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...