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Nihilon

[Under Construction] Fates PvP Ruleset

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EDIT: Please read the current ruleset and give feedback on it. If there are no objections, the rules will be adopted as they currently are. If you have any ideas or improvements, suggest them in a thread or a PM to me.

Following the discussion started in this thread, there have been a few suggestions for a Smogon-style PvP community for FE Fates. Of course, we'll likely never reach the same proportions, but I figure that in the name of fun and sportsmanship, we can try! Either way, what we'd need for this is a) a set of common rules that everyone agrees to (a few ideas for which I will list below, and which you are welcome to make suggestions for!) and b) some sort of way for the Fates PvP community to congregate easily. For this, I'd personally suggest Discord, which I've been using with plenty of my friends for various gaming purposes already. It's a free program that allows for both text-based chat and voice chat, and it'd be the best option I know of - unless someone has a better suggestion?

Either way, the following collapse box contains the current draft of the rules, with comments regarding their respective intention and possible exceptions.

[spoiler=Current Ruleset]

Posted by Chromagna on page 3, post #50:

1- No multiples of the same unit.

2- No multiples of the skills replicate, galeforce, warp or nohrian trust and no more than one of these skills per unit.

3- Galeforce with both spendthrift and life and death are banned.

4- No more than four breaker skills and no more than one of these per unit.

5- No statues. (They can be broken and placed before and after for no cost so it is not detrimental.)

6- No forged weapons.

7- No tonics or stat boosting items.

8- Only two uses of rescue, hexing rod, freeze and other state altering/position changing staves may be used.

9- All bond, einherjar, amiibo and prison units are banned. (Exceptions could be made if both players agree on it.)

10- Boots are banned. (Still undecided.)

11- Handicap is turned off. (Can be altered if players agree.)

12- No hacked or illegitimate items, stats, skills, characters etc. that cannot be gained through regular play. Anything unavailable through normal play is banned outright. (Exceptions shall be made for non-battle changing hacks such as aptitude on first gen units or resource hacks.)

This ruleset seems usable, and I would refine it into the following with just a few questions open before we can have our first official ruleset:

0) As long as both players and any other parties involved agree, any rule can change at any time.

1) No more than one of the same class.

// Exception for classes such as Kitsune and Wolfskin, as those are limited anyway?

2) No more than two classes from the S-tier.

// I personally think this rule is a good idea, but I'd really like feedback. I've yet to see anyone comment on it.

3) No multiples of the skills Galeforce, Warp, Replicate and Nohrian Trust, and no more than one of these skills on the same unit.

4) Galeforce may not be combined with Spendthrift and Life and Death at the same time.

// Possibly disallow the combination of these skills entirely?

5) No more than four breaker skills per team, and no more than one per unit.

6) Statues are banned. They can be rebuilt at no cost after being destroyed, so no need to worry about wasting DVP.

7) No forged weapons.

8) No tonics or other stat-boosting items.

// Should this also apply to the unique weapons, i.e. the Yato, Siegfried, Raijinto, Brynhildr and Fujin Yumi?

9) Only two uses of Freeze, Entrap, Rescue and Hexing Rod.

// Should we also include Enfeeble and Silence? And would it maybe make more sense to just allow one full rod/staff of them? That would be 4 uses for Freeze, Enfeeble and Silence, 3 for Hexing Rod and 2 for Entrap and Rescue.

10) No bond units, amiibo, prisoners or Einherjar. If the unit has a shield symbol, it's not allowed.

11) No boots.

// Under consideration: allowing them up to a certain limit (likely 4).

12) Handicap is turned off.

13) Skill combinations, weapons and other items gained through hacking (such as Nohrian Trust on non-Corrin 1st gen units) are banned outright. An exception can be made for non-battle affecting hacks, such as Aptitude on 1st gen units.

[spoiler=Tier List]This tier list currently only serves as an example and will be expanded and revised as people input their thoughts and opinions.

The tier list is UNDER CONSTRUCTION

S-tier (God tier)

Master Ninja

Swordmaster

Lodestar

Witch

A-tier ("Extremely good" tier)

Dark Flier

Kinshi Knight

Falcon Knight

Wyvern Lord

Berserker

Sniper

Songstress

B-tier ("Usable" tier)

General

Paladin

Sorcerer

Dark Knight

Adventurer

Dread Fighter

C-tier ("Useless" tier)

Great Knight

Vanguard

Mechanist

Ballistician

If you have ideas, comments or suggestions for the current or new rules, or any other things regarding a Fates PvP community, please do so! Our primary goal with this is to create a common platform for everyone who wants to do Fates PvP and have fun doing it.

-------------------------

Keep an eye on this thread as it will be updated as people participate.

Edited by Nihilon

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I'm happy that other Europeans are considering PvP! I thought about a ruleset without +7 Weapons (because you'll almost need PS), some skills banned, like Warp and Galeforce...No restrictions about the classes! Illegal hacks prohibited obviously, also no bought unity to prevent noob players buying everything lol

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I'm happy that other Europeans are considering PvP! I thought about a ruleset without +7 Weapons (because you'll almost need PS), some skills banned, like Warp and Galeforce...No restrictions about the classes! Illegal hacks prohibited obviously, also no bought unity to prevent noob players buying everything lol

The thing about class restriction is that, as noted, some classes are just plain better than others... like Master Ninjas. The rules about classes are there so people don't just stack 5 Master Ninjas and destroy everything. However, if the "no class restrictions" opinion is in the majority, I'll remove or revise it.

Regarding +7 weapons and bought skills, the idea behind only banning what is actually impossible to get via gameplay is that it's impossible to check whether the person got that +7 Brave Sword through a powersave... or grinding Museum Melee 24/7 for three weeks straight (in which case they earned it). However, in the case of something like a forged Hagakure Blade, or Nohrian Trust on a 1st-gen unit other than Corrin, you can immediately tell that it's hacked.

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I love this!! Great idea! I haven't gotten to play too much PvP to know what's way OP and not, but what are people's idea on Draconic Hex? It's basically a pseudo-ninja debuff that you can put on every single child unit and from my experience it's really annoying to fight teams with this skill on all their units. Maybe limit it to S/A-rank or something?

And if we're doing ranks for certain jobs, I'd add all the DLC classes to S-rank at least, or limit DLC classes to one per class for other ranks or something. Also, if DLC classes will be limited to certain ranks, will their skills be as well? Like Warp, Galeforce, Aggressor, Awakening and such?

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I use full ninjas ahahaahaah However, I think that the rules are good to go, but limiting the same class is eaggerated lol thy're superior, but they always suffer the same counter. The +7 legal weapons are ok, but I want to limit the use of PS, as base weapons are the maximum allowed in Limited Format and I think this is a very nice format.

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Ban lethality/galeforce kinshi knight + warp Azura? Cause nothing is more enjoyable then having 3/5 of your team killed before getting to move. All they have to do is run someone with high ms + can use staffs (falcon knights as an example), run to rescue's max range, rescue the kinshi knight, the kinshi runs straight into your enemies team and kill 2 of them thx to lethality and galeforce. Then azura warps in and sings to the kinshi, allowing it to kill another character.

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I love this!! Great idea! I haven't gotten to play too much PvP to know what's way OP and not, but what are people's idea on Draconic Hex? It's basically a pseudo-ninja debuff that you can put on every single child unit and from my experience it's really annoying to fight teams with this skill on all their units. Maybe limit it to S/A-rank or something?

And if we're doing ranks for certain jobs, I'd add all the DLC classes to S-rank at least, or limit DLC classes to one per class for other ranks or something. Also, if DLC classes will be limited to certain ranks, will their skills be as well? Like Warp, Galeforce, Aggressor, Awakening and such?

From what I've seen and heard, Draconic Hex is not that useful except expressly for debuffing purposes - otherwise, you're far better off just using a skill that will let you kill things faster.

As for the DLC classes, I have yet to try Dark Fliers and Witches (the latter not yet released in Europe), but Lodestar looks definitely like the best so far, and I'd definitely put it in the S-tier, and the Witch and Dark Fliers I'd definitely consider to plant there, too.

For skills, I definitely want to restrict Replicate in some way, given that with how good it is, it is used on pretty much every unit. For other skills, I didn't have any considerations for banning things yet - Warp might be worth restricting as it is extremely difficult to counter from what I know (1 flier with maxed movement drops into your team, entire enemy team arrives and chunks your team in half), but the other ones you mentioned seem fairly reasonable.

I use full ninjas ahahaahaah However, I think that the rules are good to go, but limiting the same class is eaggerated lol thy're superior, but they always suffer the same counter. The +7 legal weapons are ok, but I want to limit the use of PS, as base weapons are the maximum allowed in Limited Format and I think this is a very nice format.

Master Ninjas have practically no counter, if built properly. Their unpenalized 1-2 range along with their debuffs is just far too strong - IS really messed up on the balance there.

EDIT: @PizzaRice, I'd personally not consider that worth banning, as the absolute highest activation rate you could get for Lethality without hacks is somewhere in the neighbourhood of 30-40%, but this requires the unit to entirely be built around the skill. However, this is my personal opinion - if there are more people who are against that kind of build, I'll consider adding it to the rules.

Edited by Nihilon

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These rules seem good, even if I prefer the Limited format with some restrictions I think this can pass too! But we need to spread in some way this post or at least the idea behind.

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This sounds pretty fun.

If you use discord, maybe you could make different channels based on the regions people play in?

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I think that Replicate should be allowed, buuuut... only if a unit on the other team has it too. And for every unit on the other team that has Replicate, the other team can have another unit with that too, so a full Replicate battle is alright as long as every unit can do it...

if that makes sense?

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These rules seem good, even if I prefer the Limited format with some restrictions I think this can pass too! But we need to spread in some way this post or at least the idea behind.

There could be different rulesets for different purposes. Like a "no limits" ruleset where everything is allowed - full Replicate teams, five Master Ninjas, +7 forged weapons, and so on, basically the equivalent of Smogon's Uber tier. The rules I'm suggesting in my post would be the equivalent of the "OU" tier, which has some restrictions in place to rule out the most OP things.

And yes, it'd be great if people could spread the word about this! To friends, on other boards, etc. Let people know that we're doing this!

This sounds pretty fun.

If you use discord, maybe you could make different channels based on the regions people play in?

That was the plan. However, we should at first have at least a usable ruleset that we could call v1.0 (when the current thing is v0.0) or the equivalent of an "open beta" of sorts. I'd make a Discord server around then, so keep an eye on this thread!

I think that Replicate should be allowed, buuuut... only if a unit on the other team has it too. And for every unit on the other team that has Replicate, the other team can have another unit with that too, so a full Replicate battle is alright as long as every unit can do it...

if that makes sense?

A regulation like that would just make things overly complicated. However, there could be a sort of "no limits" ruleset, as I mentioned a bit above.

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Here are my ideas for four tiers of competitive play, some of which is repeating what was said above.

Tier 0: Free for All

Exactly what it says on the tin - no rules or restrictions, anything goes.

[spoiler=Tier 1: Competitive]

What I imagine to be similar to Smogon’s OU: some restrictions which ensure a fair, but competitive, environment.

Class Restrictions

  • The following classes are restricted to 1 per team: Master Ninja, Dread Fighter, Dark Flier, Lodestar, Great Lord, Vanguard, Grandmaster, Witch and Ballistician.
  • No Einherjar Units, including Amiibo Units.

Item Restrictions

  • Units may only have Iron Weapons (or Thunder or Ox Spirit) in their Inventory (however, these weapons can be forged up to +7).
  • Units must have 1 (and only 1) of each weapon they can equip in their inventory (e.g. Great Knights must have 1 Iron Sword/Katana, 1 Iron Lance/Naginata and 1 Iron Axe/Club).
  • Healing and Stat Boosting items are permitted, as are Gold Bars (for Spendthrift).
  • Units may only have 1 Staff/Rod in their inventory, if they can equip it.
  • Hexing Rod is banned.

Skill Restrictions

  • Replicate is banned.
  • Hacked Skills are banned (e.g. No Nohrian Trust on 1st Gen characters).
  • Skills that are exclusive to DLC Classes may only be equipped to units of that class (e.g. only Dark Fliers may have Galeforce equipped, only Witches may have Warp equipped, only Vanguards/Great Lords may have Aether equipped)

Map Restrictions

  • Battles cannot take place in either player’s My Castle.

Tier 2: Classic

Same as above, with 5 extra restrictions:

  • No DLC Classes/Skills
  • 1st Gen Units Only
  • Corrin (Avatar Unit) is banned
  • Characters may only be in a Class that they can access using a Master Seal or Heart Seal.
  • Characters may only have Skills equipped from Classes they can access using a Master Seal or Heart Seal.

Tier 3: Little Cup

Same as Competitive, with 2 extra restrictions:

  • Base Classes only (All units must be Level 20 or under)
  • Units may only equip Skills learned in Base Classes.

I realise this isn’t perfect, and in some cases may be too restrictive, but I thought it might give a good framework for someone else to work off.

Edited by Johnwaluigi

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Don't forget the boots, it really hurts if your enemy has infinite boots and two more movement on all his units, while most players are restricted to 3 boots (or fewer if they don't have all paths)

So we could either ban them (which means they cant use them on the playtrougth they use for pvp preparation, or restrict them to 3 (which still is a disadvantage for these, who dont want to buy all Three paths.

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Here are my ideas for four tiers of competitive play, some of which is repeating what was said above.

Tier 0: Free for All

Exactly what it says on the tin - no rules or restrictions, anything goes.

[spoiler=Tier 1: Competitive]

What I imagine to be similar to Smogon’s OU: some restrictions which ensure a fair, but competitive, environment.

Class Restrictions

  • The following classes are restricted to 1 per team: Master Ninja, Dread Fighter, Dark Flier, Lodestar, Great Lord, Vanguard, Grandmaster, Witch and Ballistician.
  • No Einherjar Units, including Amiibo Units.

Item Restrictions

  • Units may only have Iron Weapons (or Thunder or Ox Spirit) in their Inventory (however, these weapons can be forged up to +7).
  • Units must have 1 (and only 1) of each weapon they can equip in their inventory (e.g. Great Knights must have 1 Iron Sword/Katana, 1 Iron Lance/Naginata and 1 Iron Axe/Club).
  • Healing and Stat Boosting items are permitted, as are Gold Bars (for Spendthrift).
  • Units may only have 1 Staff/Rod in their inventory, if they can equip it.
  • Hexing Rod is banned.

Skill Restrictions

  • Replicate is banned.
  • Hacked Skills are banned (e.g. No Nohrian Trust on 1st Gen characters).
  • Skills that are exclusive to DLC Classes may only be equipped to units of that class (e.g. only Dark Fliers may have Galeforce equipped, only Witches may have Warp equipped, only Vanguards/Great Lords may have Aether equipped)

Map Restrictions

  • Battles cannot take place in either player’s My Castle.

Tier 2: Classic

Same as above, with 5 extra restrictions:

  • No DLC Classes/Skills
  • 1st Gen Units Only
  • Corrin (Avatar Unit) is banned
  • Characters may only be in a Class that they can access using a Master Seal or Heart Seal.
  • Characters may only have Skills equipped from Classes they can access using a Master Seal or Heart Seal.

Tier 3: Little Cup

Same as Competitive, with 2 extra restrictions:

  • Base Classes only (All units must be Level 20 or under)
  • Units may only equip Skills learned in Base Classes.

I realise this isn’t perfect, and in some cases may be too restrictive, but I thought it might give a good framework for someone else to work off.

All formats would need a decent following to actually have decent battles in and most of these require a full save file for preparation which is a small concern for something like little cup. I like the idea of classic (while I wouldn't personally play it) but isn't it a bit too hard to monitor and check to see if the teams are actually valid or not? We would need to go through heart seal classes and the like and seems to much of a hassle.

For your base competitive format, I don't like the idea of having multiple of some classes and only having one of the OP classes because it still asks for some teams to possible have a couple of extreme offensive units from the same class that may not originally be from the OP classes and removes consistency. If we just limit it to 1 of each class per team, I think its easier to monitor and also easier for newer players who may want to join in. For your weapon restrictions, I get the idea but it makes battles less interesting and removes a lot of tactical gameplay such as using hagikure for extra avoid. A way to possibly balance weapons could be just to ban all forged weapons. That way nothing can get too out of hand.

I do like the idea of banning my castle maps as they are uncontrollable and can give WAY too much of an advantage to whatever team the castle has chosen to favour.

That all aside, thanks for putting a lot of thought in to these and if it gets big, we could probably start introducing more and more game-types. Its probably best to stick with one for now though.

Following the discussion started in this thread, there have been a few suggestions for a Smogon-style PvP community for FE Fates. Of course, we'll likely never reach the same proportions, but I figure that in the name of fun and sportsmanship, we can try! Either way, what we'd need for this is a) a set of common rules that everyone agrees to (a few ideas for which I will list below, and which you are welcome to make suggestions for!) and b) some sort of way for the Fates PvP community to congregate easily. For this, I'd personally suggest Discord, which I've been using with plenty of my friends for various gaming purposes already. It's a free program that allows for both text-based chat and voice chat, and it'd be the best option I know of - unless someone has a better suggestion?

Either way, the following collapse box contains the current draft of the rules, with comments regarding their respective intention and possible exceptions.

[spoiler=Current Ruleset]

- No two of the same class.

This forces players to vary their teams a little, and not just ninja spam people. Also, "no two of the same class" would apply to promoted classes, not base, so you could use both a Master Ninja and a Mechanist, by way of example. An exception could be made for special classes such as the beast classes and the Nohr Prince(ss) line, as you have a limited number of those anyway.

- No Einherjar.

I'm not entirely sure about this rule, but its intent is to prevent people from just grabbing stat-capped and optimized units from easy seize castles and going on win streaks with those. It does have the disadvantage of excluding people from using, say, Scarlet or Izana on Revelation, but maybe exceptions could be made for those special cases. An exception could also be made for the amiibo characters, as well as Bond Units.

- No hacks permitted that get you things you cannot obtain through normal gameplay.

The idea here is that if people want to use powersaves to get that +7 Brave Sword without grinding Museum Melee for days on end, they can. But forged S-rank weapons or things like Bold Stance on units is where the fun ends. This would include things like Aptitude and Nohrian Trust/Hoshidan Unity on 1st gen units other than Mozu/Corrin, though to be fair, all Aptitude does is save Eternal Seals, and things like Nohrian Trust on Ryoma are easy enough to point out. Alternatively, forged weapons at least could be banned entirely.

- Restrictions on extremely powerful skills such as Replicate.

Let's face it, Replicate is absurdly strong. In PvP, it's pretty much "use it or lose it". Replicate on every unit is just monotonous, and monotony is not fun, at least as far as I am concerned. Though this rule is largely based on my personal bias, so I'd like some input. Current other considerations for banned skills include Warp, Galeforce and Lethality.

- Restrictions on class selection based on a tier list.

The thought behind this one is that there are some classes stronger than others (Master Ninjas, Swordmasters). So, for example, we'd have an S-tier, occupied by Master Ninjas, Swordmasters and other classes as strong as them (like, I don't know... Witches and Lodestars?), and you'd only be permitted to use one or two classes from the S-tier. This should force people to use something other than the "god tier" classes, encouraging some variety.

[spoiler=Tier List]This tier list currently only serves as an example and will be expanded and revised as people input their thoughts and opinions.

The tier list is UNDER CONSTRUCTION

S-tier (God tier)

Master Ninja

Swordmaster

Lodestar

Witch

A-tier ("Extremely good" tier)

Dark Flier

Kinshi Knight

Falcon Knight

Berserker

Sniper

B-tier ("Usable" tier)

General

Sorcerer

Dark Knight

Adventurer

C-tier ("Useless" tier)

If you have ideas, comments or suggestions for the current or new rules, or any other things regarding a Fates PvP community, please do so! Our primary goal with this is to create a common platform for everyone who wants to do Fates PvP and have fun doing it.

-------------------------

Keep an eye on this thread as it will be updated as people participate.

Eyyy we have a thread for this. Thanks! xD Anyways, just a suggestion with skills, we could perhaps limit it to 1 use of that skill only. This would nerf warp and replicate a bit and if we are still worried, replicate, galeforce and warp cannot be on the same unit and ban warp on songstress. I think that in the case of items, as I have said above, keep them all not-forged or forged to a limit of +1 or +2. A +7 of some of the most basic weapons can even take away the omega yatos usefulness so its not fun to have +7s when pretty much everything is balanced as is. Plus, forged weapons and limiting weapons to something such as only iron removes the point in classes have specific weapon levels. it is probably best to keep a restriction of 1 use of an S-tier class as that way we can't have OP class spam instead. Otherwise, I like where this is going.

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Einherjars... they have the huge advantage of being able to effectively bypass the building limit of 50 in My Castle, which can be so big that they have very little need for support-based pair-up bonuses. If the player has 4 Revelaltion save files set up solely for the purpose of statue boosting (1 file is STR/HP, another is something like SKL/LCK, another is MAG/RES, and the other is SPD/DEF; all based on Boon/Bane combos), Einherjars can get the following bonuses:

+11 STR

+9 MAG

+13 SKL

+11 SPD

+8 LCK

+11 DEF

+10 RES

Aptitude can easily provide an advantage to those who play in Handicapped matches (assuming people play in that format) -- effects from statbooster items and Eternal Seals are removed from the match, so stats are purely from bases, level ups, and promotion.

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Don't forget the boots, it really hurts if your enemy has infinite boots and two more movement on all his units, while most players are restricted to 3 boots (or fewer if they don't have all paths)

So we could either ban them (which means they cant use them on the playtrougth they use for pvp preparation, or restrict them to 3 (which still is a disadvantage for these, who dont want to buy all Three paths.

Or we could just keep it to 1 and that way, its level for even those who don't want to pay for DLC and all three routes.

Something I would like to avoid in all of this rule creating is the banning of DLC stuff and all of that though because that is pretty much fair game. Remember that we created this to remove the annoyance of hackers and create a fairly even playing field without going over-board like smogon.

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Or we could just keep it to 1 and that way, its level for even those who don't want to pay for DLC and all three routes.

If you have multiple save files and lots of cash, Einherjars don't need to worry about having a limited supply of Boots (or statboosters for that matter).

Edited by Roflolxp54

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If you have multiple save files and lots of cash, Einherjars don't need to worry about having a limited supply of Boots (or statboosters for that matter).

Einherjars are banned by our rules ;)

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If you have multiple save files and lots of cash, Einherjars don't need to worry about having a limited supply of Boots (or statboosters for that matter).

Remove einherjars then. Or at least, check for boots at the start. Did I get that right? I feel like I am not understanding...

Edited by Chromagna

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Einherjars... they have the huge advantage of being able to effectively bypass the building limit of 50 in My Castle, which can be so big that they have very little need for support-based pair-up bonuses. If the player has 4 Revelaltion save files set up solely for the purpose of statue boosting (1 file is STR/HP, another is something like SKL/LCK, another is MAG/RES, and the other is SPD/DEF; all based on Boon/Bane combos), Einherjars can get the following bonuses:

+11 STR

+9 MAG

+13 SKL

+11 SPD

+8 LCK

+11 DEF

+10 RES

Aptitude can easily provide an advantage to those who play in Handicapped matches (assuming people play in that format) -- effects from statbooster items and Eternal Seals are removed from the match, so stats are purely from bases, level ups, and promotion.

Einherjars were banned if following from the OP's base post. The problem with the game type that removes statboosting items and eternal seals is that RNG can screw up units and that is not fun. I had my Asugi get really screwed over and I don't want to have to restart my whole game just to train him up and rely on RNG all again. So it would be in the other format I hope, just have player regulated restrictions instead of computer based ones. That was the original idea anyways

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With the skills, I'd go with:

- only 1 character with warp

- only 1 character with duplicate

- 2 boots per team

And no hacked skills ofcourse (no Nohrian trust on Ryoma :( )

Gives people some leeway in their team but not full blown OP stuff.

Also duplicate is less attractive then you might thing.

Like someone suggested there are teams build around killing 2/3 members of your team before you can even move.

Using your turn to use duplicate after that is a major waste.

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With the skills, I'd go with:

- only 1 character with warp

- only 1 character with duplicate

- 2 boots per team

And no hacked skills ofcourse (no Nohrian trust on Ryoma :( )

Gives people some leeway in their team but not full blown OP stuff.

Also duplicate is less attractive then you might thing.

Like someone suggested there are teams build around killing 2/3 members of your team before you can even move.

Using your turn to use duplicate after that is a major waste.

Most teams are built around killing the opponent in one turn. In one turn, they can set up their replica's and use their rainbow tonics. Second turn, they rush in, everyone warps, and they get 2 turns of attack (if they don't die) to kill the opponent in. Most of these are kinshi knights and due to bows being OP and every thing being fragile, only dodge based classes really stand a chance aside from the odd tank or so. Replicate is OP because it allows 4 attacks in your turn with what would normally be 1 unit. That can take out pretty much an entire team with 1 unit. That is OP. Not to mention on tanks. Put a tank in the front lines and use a staff/rally bot to spam it. The tank can hold a choke point without worrying. This is particularly scary with nohrian trust.

Replicate, galeforce and warp are notorious is PvP for being used to kill teams in one turn. It is broken and annoying to face.

Edit- Also, I am pretty sure 2 boots is only obtainable if you a) buy an einherjar unit with them already equipped, b) buy all routes, c) buy the DLC. This gives an unfair advantage to people who don't have the money. I guess that logic also applies to DLC but boots are very much a staple item whereas in DLC, the only real benefits to it that other players cant access is witch and warp.

Edited by Chromagna

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Edit- Also, I am pretty sure 2 boots is only obtainable if you a) buy an einherjar unit with them already equipped, b) buy all routes, c) buy the DLC. This gives an unfair advantage to people who don't have the money. I guess that logic also applies to DLC but boots are very much a staple item whereas in DLC, the only real benefits to it that other players cant access is witch and warp.

In Conquest you should be able to get a second pair by killing Shura, but only in Conquest....

Dont forget Aether for EVERY SINGLE UNIT, proc chance about 60% not rarely seen. (MN with 40 Skill (20%), Hoshidan Union (10%), Quicktoxic (15%), Enemys Quicktoxic (15%).

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Most teams are built around killing the opponent in one turn. In one turn, they can set up their replica's and use their rainbow tonics. Second turn, they rush in, everyone warps, and they get 2 turns of attack (if they don't die) to kill the opponent in. Most of these are kinshi knights and due to bows being OP and every thing being fragile, only dodge based classes really stand a chance aside from the odd tank or so. Replicate is OP because it allows 4 attacks in your turn with what would normally be 1 unit. That can take out pretty much an entire team with 1 unit. That is OP. Not to mention on tanks. Put a tank in the front lines and use a staff/rally bot to spam it. The tank can hold a choke point without worrying. This is particularly scary with nohrian trust.

Replicate, galeforce and warp are notorious is PvP for being used to kill teams in one turn. It is broken and annoying to face.

Edit- Also, I am pretty sure 2 boots is only obtainable if you a) buy an einherjar unit with them already equipped, b) buy all routes, c) buy the DLC. This gives an unfair advantage to people who don't have the money. I guess that logic also applies to DLC but boots are very much a staple item whereas in DLC, the only real benefits to it that other players cant access is witch and warp.

Most people are going to play revelation when optimizing a team.

That means owning 2 paths, 2 boots isn't really an unfair advantage.

And that's why I suggest just 1 replicate.

And how does one use a rainbow tonic AND replicate?

Don't you waste your turn using a tonic, or do you use quick salve for it?

In Conquest you should be able to get a second pair by killing Shura, but only in Conquest....

Dont forget Aether for EVERY SINGLE UNIT, proc chance about 60% not rarely seen. (MN with 40 Skill (20%), Hoshidan Union (10%), Quicktoxic (15%), Enemys Quicktoxic (15%).

Quicktoxic doesn't stack.

1 or 2 activating skills is "only" 15%

Edited by Mister Cold

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