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[Under Construction] Fates PvP Ruleset

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I like this so far, but here's something I don't necessarily agree with.

-Tier lists. If there hasn't even been a little Fates Online event yet here, all the class listings have little to no substance, since there's no past data to go by.

-Banning of multiple units using the same class. If they want to, good for them. They're gonna be the ones with glaring WT disadvantage, as well as weakness to magic/physical attacks.

-Restrictions on legal skills in general. You're giving up on lots of offensive power using breaker skills rather than damaging ones, they may be annoying but they're certainly not broken IMO. I also recommend leaving Replicate be, it already requires a turn of setup, also I believe I've heard that Replicas don't give/receive certain support bonuses? As well as the fact that a Replica and it's owner are simultaneously affected by statuses and damage. The other suspect ones I agree with, but I'd like to give them a few chances before we crack down on them, and if that happens, I'd rather ban the skills outright IMO.

-Restrictions on tonics/My Castle seals. The bonuses are minuscule and waste 1/5 of your inventory that could go to weapons. They don't seem worth to be and are better left be IMO.

-Restrictions on staves. Staves are pretty much the only way to get any action going without the use of something like Warp, but at least staves have limited uses, as well as offensive varieties being extremely inaccurate. Staves are pretty much a necessity, and restricting them will only lead to stall w/o any other forms of safe engage.

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I like this so far, but here's something I don't necessarily agree with.

-Tier lists. If there hasn't even been a little Fates Online event yet here, all the class listings have little to no substance, since there's no past data to go by.

-Banning of multiple units using the same class. If they want to, good for them. They're gonna be the ones with glaring WT disadvantage, as well as weakness to magic/physical attacks.

-Restrictions on legal skills in general. You're giving up on lots of offensive power using breaker skills rather than damaging ones, they may be annoying but they're certainly not broken IMO. I also recommend leaving Replicate be, it already requires a turn of setup, also I believe I've heard that Replicas don't give/receive certain support bonuses? As well as the fact that a Replica and it's owner are simultaneously affected by statuses and damage. The other suspect ones I agree with, but I'd like to give them a few chances before we crack down on them, and if that happens, I'd rather ban the skills outright IMO.

-Restrictions on tonics/My Castle seals. The bonuses are minuscule and waste 1/5 of your inventory that could go to weapons. They don't seem worth to be and are better left be IMO.

-Restrictions on staves. Staves are pretty much the only way to get any action going without the use of something like Warp, but at least staves have limited uses, as well as offensive varieties being extremely inaccurate. Staves are pretty much a necessity, and restricting them will only lead to stall w/o any other forms of safe engage.

I disagree with this list wholeheartedly. I have done a lot of research in to the pvp scene, the meta, played through it myself (only minor since I don't have all the dlc or much time) and the game has been out for a year. First off, if a team of kinshi knights with warp, galeforce, replicate and 2 offensive skills play against you, you might as well give up. It is broken, boring and takes the fun out of pvp. These skills are literally everywhere for a REASON. They aren't just chucked on the units for the sake of being chucked on. Replicate is pretty much a vantage at full hp but also gives a sort of brave weapon/galeforce effect too as you can attack on your terms 8 times with brave weapons. That is uber powerful in a game with only 5 units. Pair this with galeforce and bam, that is 4 units you can kill and 16 attacks you can put in to 1 unit. Because pvp is about killing the opponent in one turn, all you need is one turn of retreating to set up replicate anyway. You can even pair up replicate units with themselves (although this limits your over-all attack capabilities).

In the case of tonics, again, all you have to do is move out of range and set them up along with replicate and the like. The boosts from a rainbow tonic are much more potent then most weapons can provide.

With staves, we have not banned them but reduced them. Two rescues and a unit with warp is still enough to get 2/3 units in to attack without galeforce or replicate.

Same classes is a huge rule. We did this to minimise boring OTKO teams that just swarm you with kinshi knights, dark fliers, warp witches & snipers as well as master ninjas. These teams are not only OP but take the fun out of pvp. While you claim that they run these at their own risk, there really is no risk other than someone managing to chuck an enemy out of the 10 range of a warping kinshi knight in which case, that enemy can't retaliate anyway. Pvp has limited tactics and the major one is OTKOing which kinshi knights are the best classes for. Tier lists are also necessary to stop people from using all of these OP classes. The only objective of the tier list is to limit S rank classes and possibly A rank classes so they aren't a plague. For example, if we let people use 2 S rank classes, 2 A rank classes and 1 of the C rank classes, it diversifies teams, creates strategies and limits things such as kinshi knight, master ninja, dark falcon, sniper, witch teams that could spawn off of not having this rule.

In the case of breaker stacking, they really are OP. When used in swordmaster or lodestar which ALREADY have high avoid, they can gain a 100% avoid rate pretty easily and are pretty much only countered by the weapons that they didn't get breakers for (axes already have an appalling hit chance so might as well not bother with axebreaker). The best build in pvp atm is a female Corrin with 4 breakers and nohrian trust who is S ranked to Jakob (personal skill) who has aegis, pavise, lethality, miracle and filler. This is a really stupidly broken build. Even if you hit, aegis/pavise will trigger and even if you hit and proc something amazing for the finishing blow, miracle will trigger. Meanwhile, the hagakure blade will clean up anything that the unit attacks. Breakers are OP.

With my castle seals, we never actually put any restrictions on them.

This is just my opinion on things though.

Edited by Chromagna

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I also think that tonics and statues should be banned entirely.

As someone who doesn't have that many Rainbow Tonics (I have none, actually), it's always frustrating to run into someone who has one on every unit. It destroys any chance you have against them.

Case in point: I encountered someone with an invincible Midori. I don't know how they achieved that, but somehow Rallybot Laslow, Rainbow Tonic, Azura's Song, pair up with Lodestar Kaze and Basara class with Nohrian Trust gave her a 100% proc rate on Lethality and a 100% avoid rate as a bonus. What can you do against something like that?

EDIT: Her stats ended up in the high fifties to lower sixties, probably due to statues and/or the logbook exploit, idk.

Edited by DragonFlames

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I disagree with this list wholeheartedly. I have done a lot of research in to the pvp scene, the meta, played through it myself (only minor since I don't have all the dlc or much time) and the game has been out for a year. First off, if a team of kinshi knights with warp, galeforce, replicate and 2 offensive skills play against you, you might as well give up. It is broken, boring and takes the fun out of pvp. These skills are literally everywhere for a REASON. They aren't just chucked on the units for the sake of being chucked on. Replicate is pretty much a vantage at full hp but also gives a sort of brave weapon/galeforce effect too as you can attack on your terms 8 times with brave weapons. That is uber powerful in a game with only 5 units. Pair this with galeforce and bam, that is 4 units you can kill and 16 attacks you can put in to 1 unit. Because pvp is about killing the opponent in one turn, all you need is one turn of retreating to set up replicate anyway. You can even pair up replicate units with themselves (although this limits your over-all attack capabilities).

In the case of tonics, again, all you have to do is move out of range and set them up along with replicate and the like. The boosts from a rainbow tonic are much more potent then most weapons can provide.

With staves, we have not banned them but reduced them. Two rescues and a unit with warp is still enough to get 2/3 units in to attack without galeforce or replicate.

Same classes is a huge rule. We did this to minimise boring OTKO teams that just swarm you with kinshi knights, dark fliers, warp witches & snipers as well as master ninjas. These teams are not only OP but take the fun out of pvp. While you claim that they run these at their own risk, there really is no risk other than someone managing to chuck an enemy out of the 10 range of a warping kinshi knight in which case, that enemy can't retaliate anyway. Pvp has limited tactics and the major one is OTKOing which kinshi knights are the best classes for. Tier lists are also necessary to stop people from using all of these OP classes. The only objective of the tier list is to limit S rank classes and possibly A rank classes so they aren't a plague. For example, if we let people use 2 S rank classes, 2 A rank classes and 1 of the C rank classes, it diversifies teams, creates strategies and limits things such as kinshi knight, master ninja, dark falcon, sniper, witch teams that could spawn off of not having this rule.

In the case of breaker stacking, they really are OP. When used in swordmaster or lodestar which ALREADY have high avoid, they can gain a 100% avoid rate pretty easily and are pretty much only countered by the weapons that they didn't get breakers for (axes already have an appalling hit chance so might as well not bother with axebreaker). The best build in pvp atm is a female Corrin with 4 breakers and nohrian trust who is S ranked to Jakob (personal skill) who has aegis, pavise, lethality, miracle and filler. This is a really stupidly broken build. Even if you hit, aegis/pavise will trigger and even if you hit and proc something amazing for the finishing blow, miracle will trigger. Meanwhile, the hagakure blade will clean up anything that the unit attacks. Breakers are OP.

With my castle seals, we never actually put any restrictions on them.

This is just my opinion on things though.

Yes, but also consider the fact that online people are using statues and forged weapons which are a lot of free stats. I did want to say last night that I did agree with the removal of statues and lowering forge limits btw. You need to consider how much more damage everyone is doing online with might, crit, and skill proc bonuses because of forging/statues, as well as how these bonuses take dumb weapons like the killer and brave series over the edge. A lot of these issues you're having can likely be dealt with more easily when the "fat" from these bonuses are trimmed off, once we try it out.

Also if you have sources to your stories, please link them to me here. Otherwise, your anecdotes don't have much value in my eyes, even if I've had similar experiences on occasion. I'm not saying these things aren't trouble RIGHT NOW, but from what I've seen happen to the smash scene time and time again, people cry something is OP, and once it's gone, it's gone. I'd like to at least play some games or some small tourneys here on Serene's so we can track what's actually prevailing before we make hasty bans. The right approach IMO is to go as vanilla as possible, and then make cuts only when ABSOLUTELY necessary.

I also think that tonics and statues should be banned entirely.

As someone who doesn't have that many Rainbow Tonics (I have none, actually), it's always frustrating to run into someone who has one on every unit. It destroys any chance you have against them.

Case in point: I encountered someone with an invincible Midori. I don't know how they achieved that, but somehow Rallybot Laslow, Rainbow Tonic, Azura's Song, pair up with Lodestar Kaze and Basara class with Nohrian Trust gave her a 100% proc rate on Lethality and a 100% avoid rate as a bonus. What can you do against something like that?

EDIT: Her stats ended up in the high fifties to lower sixties, probably due to statues and/or the logbook exploit, idk.

Hey man, I'm Nohrian Scum w/o any DLC, so I'm in the same if not worse boat than you are. Also before statues, according to Serene's it appears the highest cap/green stat possible is 51, which belongs to Charlotte/Effie!Velouria!Kana as a Berserker, and that even if I'm doing the inheritance math right. 51 is also prob possible on a Kana's luck or defense as Lodestar or General, since on their respective stats share the same 40 cap as a Berserker before inheritance. Anything nearing these caps on non-Kana units are using statues/exploiting. Also, am I doing the ! format thing right? I'm new to Serene's and idk if that was correct typing or not.

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Yes, but also consider the fact that online people are using statues and forged weapons which are a lot of free stats. I did want to say last night that I did agree with the removal of statues and lowering forge limits btw. You need to consider how much more damage everyone is doing online with might, crit, and skill proc bonuses because of forging/statues, as well as how these bonuses take dumb weapons like the killer and brave series over the edge. A lot of these issues you're having can likely be dealt with more easily when the "fat" from these bonuses are trimmed off, once we try it out.

Also if you have sources to your stories, please link them to me here. Otherwise, your anecdotes don't have much value in my eyes, even if I've had similar experiences on occasion. I'm not saying these things aren't trouble RIGHT NOW, but from what I've seen happen to the smash scene time and time again, people cry something is OP, and once it's gone, it's gone. I'd like to at least play some games or some small tourneys here on Serene's so we can track what's actually prevailing before we make hasty bans. The right approach IMO is to go as vanilla as possible, and then make cuts only when ABSOLUTELY necessary.

Hey man, I'm Nohrian Scum w/o any DLC, so I'm in the same if not worse boat than you are. Also before statues, according to Serene's it appears the highest cap/green stat possible is 51, which belongs to Charlotte/Effie!Velouria!Kana as a Berserker, and that even if I'm doing the inheritance math right. 51 is also prob possible on a Kana's luck or defense as Lodestar or General, since on their respective stats share the same 40 cap as a Berserker before inheritance. Anything nearing these caps on non-Kana units are using statues/exploiting. Also, am I doing the ! format thing right? I'm new to Serene's and idk if that was correct typing or not.

You were doing the ! format right haha. I guess it is worth trying out but I am still against the whole multiple of same classes. This is just something a lot of people have experienced. I can try making a team for when we get the whole ruleset pvp off the ground but I don't think I will have one by then. This is just in the trial stages for now so a lot can be changed.

I also think that tonics and statues should be banned entirely.

As someone who doesn't have that many Rainbow Tonics (I have none, actually), it's always frustrating to run into someone who has one on every unit. It destroys any chance you have against them.

Case in point: I encountered someone with an invincible Midori. I don't know how they achieved that, but somehow Rallybot Laslow, Rainbow Tonic, Azura's Song, pair up with Lodestar Kaze and Basara class with Nohrian Trust gave her a 100% proc rate on Lethality and a 100% avoid rate as a bonus. What can you do against something like that?

EDIT: Her stats ended up in the high fifties to lower sixties, probably due to statues and/or the logbook exploit, idk.

We included these in our rules already :D

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You were doing the ! format right haha. I guess it is worth trying out but I am still against the whole multiple of same classes. This is just something a lot of people have experienced. I can try making a team for when we get the whole ruleset pvp off the ground but I don't think I will have one by then. This is just in the trial stages for now so a lot can be changed.

We included these in our rules already :D

You don't have to agree with me, I'm just glad at least you say you're willing to be flexible. I'd like to play you some time but iirc you're from EU and I'm from NA so that's pretty unfortunate.

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@Ceniza, regarding your concerns about the rules, that's what rule #0 is for. I was also planning on removing rule #2 (no more than 2 classes from S-tier) and just instituting a Smogon-like system. And of course, I don't claim that these rules are anything resembling final and universally applicable. They'll undergo further revisions as we go along - the current incarnation is based on what experience the participants have, both first-hand and second-hand. As we go on to have actual battles under the ruleset and we find out what works and what doesn't, we'll adjust the rules as required.

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I made a post of my thoughts on fire emblem pvp on several videos where some people asked questions/thoughts on it. I happened upon this thread by accident and made an account to post my previous comments as perhaps it'll be of some use. Here is the first comment I made.

"To me abilities are broken down into tiers of usefulness/commonality if you're talking pvp S-rank ones would be "broken", overpowered, or unstable under the right circumstances such as "Nohrian trust+Hoshidan Unity" together with a paired unit, WARP(completely negates movement limitations =/ ), lethality period, galeforce combined with abilities that boost damage such as spendthrift, etc., Quixotic combined with skills such as astra, aether, luna, sol.

A-rank-all breaker skills combined or separate(some are probably "B-rank" due to the rarity in usage such as axebreaker), galeforce standalone, pavise, aegis, counter, countermagic(albeit rarely used), "Rally all", vantage, miracle, the ability that boosts accuracy by 40 when attacking, the ability that boosts criticals by 20 when attacking, spendthrift standalone with gold bars of course, draconic hex(best on a tank or when the unit can't hit back), avoid +30 when attacking, replicate(possibly S rank depending on the number used by the opponent and strength of character), the ability that boosts damage to puppets, etc.(for replicas).

B-rank- having a random rally skill, renewal, nohrian trust or Hoshidan unity by itself, luna, aether, astra by itself, "draining abilities such as drain defense, attack, etc., the shield boosting ability(bars generate faster). +5 damage weapon based skills. C-rank-Sol by itself, Quixotic by itself(can actually be bad if opponent has skills to activate but you don't), skills that boost stats +2 after a win(rank A if combined with galeforce etc.) This is all based on what I've seen/used online. I avoid anything S-rank, because it tends to result in 1 sided matches.

This doesn't take into consideration the items used such as "rescue staves" and "rainbow tonics". If your opponent doesn't have it then you probably shouldn't use it(rainbow tonic, etc.) but to each their own.

Oh and personal skills aren't taken into account. Obvious common characters used for their abilities such as Midori/Laslow, etc. would be S-rank/A-rank characters since many players abuse their abilities. A Midori that doesn't take advantage of her personal ability such as having sol, luna and random breaker skills would be a rare sight, and probably rank around B, so up against an "S" rank midori the result is almost always in the latter's favor.

The best online battles are the ones with even teams where it's a team of mostly A/B rank characters/strategies vs the same rather than against a rallybot/rescue/nohrian trust midori with lethality, miracle, etc. team. just a side note, from what I've seen online, any +7 weapon is automatically S-rank even umbrellas are OP. +2 to +4 is most common, so those are upper B rank or A rank depending on the weapon strength. A is the rare +5/+6 or S-rank depending on weapon strength. For example, an iron yumi+5 compared to a silver yumi+5, the silver bow has much higher damage output and is imo much more deadly so S-rank while iron yumi can get kills it's not as effective, so A rank. Ok so that's about it perhaps this will help. Just my thoughts on wifi pvp."

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I'm down for this! (If anyone wants to let me use my prison units aka bosses let me know)

I just got off holidays but once I am a bit free on work, I will make a team, do a run and battle people some time with these rules to help trial them.

You don't have to agree with me, I'm just glad at least you say you're willing to be flexible. I'd like to play you some time but iirc you're from EU and I'm from NA so that's pretty unfortunate.

That's a shame D: I am just glad people are jumping on board the idea and contributing to be honest and any input is appreciated. Of course there is going to be disagreement at some point, we can't create perfect rules that work for everyone but we are trying to make it somewhat free without making it a hugely boring meta game.

I made a post of my thoughts on fire emblem pvp on several videos where some people asked questions/thoughts on it. I happened upon this thread by accident and made an account to post my previous comments as perhaps it'll be of some use. Here is the first comment I made.

"To me abilities are broken down into tiers of usefulness/commonality if you're talking pvp S-rank ones would be "broken", overpowered, or unstable under the right circumstances such as "Nohrian trust+Hoshidan Unity" together with a paired unit, WARP(completely negates movement limitations =/ ), lethality period, galeforce combined with abilities that boost damage such as spendthrift, etc., Quixotic combined with skills such as astra, aether, luna, sol.

A-rank-all breaker skills combined or separate(some are probably "B-rank" due to the rarity in usage such as axebreaker), galeforce standalone, pavise, aegis, counter, countermagic(albeit rarely used), "Rally all", vantage, miracle, the ability that boosts accuracy by 40 when attacking, the ability that boosts criticals by 20 when attacking, spendthrift standalone with gold bars of course, draconic hex(best on a tank or when the unit can't hit back), avoid +30 when attacking, replicate(possibly S rank depending on the number used by the opponent and strength of character), the ability that boosts damage to puppets, etc.(for replicas).

B-rank- having a random rally skill, renewal, nohrian trust or Hoshidan unity by itself, luna, aether, astra by itself, "draining abilities such as drain defense, attack, etc., the shield boosting ability(bars generate faster). +5 damage weapon based skills. C-rank-Sol by itself, Quixotic by itself(can actually be bad if opponent has skills to activate but you don't), skills that boost stats +2 after a win(rank A if combined with galeforce etc.) This is all based on what I've seen/used online. I avoid anything S-rank, because it tends to result in 1 sided matches.

This doesn't take into consideration the items used such as "rescue staves" and "rainbow tonics". If your opponent doesn't have it then you probably shouldn't use it(rainbow tonic, etc.) but to each their own.

Oh and personal skills aren't taken into account. Obvious common characters used for their abilities such as Midori/Laslow, etc. would be S-rank/A-rank characters since many players abuse their abilities. A Midori that doesn't take advantage of her personal ability such as having sol, luna and random breaker skills would be a rare sight, and probably rank around B, so up against an "S" rank midori the result is almost always in the latter's favor.

The best online battles are the ones with even teams where it's a team of mostly A/B rank characters/strategies vs the same rather than against a rallybot/rescue/nohrian trust midori with lethality, miracle, etc. team. just a side note, from what I've seen online, any +7 weapon is automatically S-rank even umbrellas are OP. +2 to +4 is most common, so those are upper B rank or A rank depending on the weapon strength. A is the rare +5/+6 or S-rank depending on weapon strength. For example, an iron yumi+5 compared to a silver yumi+5, the silver bow has much higher damage output and is imo much more deadly so S-rank while iron yumi can get kills it's not as effective, so A rank. Ok so that's about it perhaps this will help. Just my thoughts on wifi pvp."

I would bump up galeforce because as soon as it claims that kill, that is potential to kill another. It also means that you don't need warp if planned right. Lets say a galeforce unit finished up a tanky unit which was just rallied. That galeforce unit can then also take out that rally/support character. This is even worse if it is a flying unit with 10 unit which gives them an effective 20 movement if it picks up a kill. Breaker skills as stand alone are decent but when combined, they become downright a pain such as josephine builds so seperate I would chuck them in A and combined in S. The ability that hits hard on puppets doesn't work from what I read in its description. Apparently it only works on the NPC battle units within my castle. If any of the proc skills are used in a particular set, they can become much more dangerous. Draining abilities are moot in pvp. You need a reliable 2-3 kills for it to even start to make a difference and on one unit. It is better reserved for something else. In the case of Midori, her personal only effects luck based skills and not skill based skills so sol would not gain the bonus but something like miracle or dragon ward would.

It is probably unnecessary to put skills and characters in to tiers. By limiting skill combinations through rules and by limiting classes, half of these problems are mitigated. We have already discussed forged weapons and agree that they should be limited at the very LEAST.

Thank you for your contributions. Stick around and play a game if you have time.

Edited by Chromagna

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The ability that hits hard on puppets doesn't work from what I read in its description. Apparently it only works on the NPC battle units within my castle.

It does do extra damage to one class in PvP: Mechanist, since the thing he is riding is considered a puppet. Replicas have the same weaknesses as their originals.

Rigth now I am recruiting the last children, then finishing the story. By the end of the week I should have a team for the first trial runs.

I just need an opponend then who would follow these rules too^^

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It does do extra damage to one class in PvP: Mechanist, since the thing he is riding is considered a puppet. Replicas have the same weaknesses as their originals.

Rigth now I am recruiting the last children, then finishing the story. By the end of the week I should have a team for the first trial runs.

I just need an opponend then who would follow these rules too^^

I would be in but I don't know how I will go with time restraints due to year 12/grade 12. Are you aiming to win or aiming to make a good team or just a fun team? I need to know what I should build up first.

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I would be in but I don't know how I will go with time restraints due to year 12/grade 12. Are you aiming to win or aiming to make a good team or just a fun team? I need to know what I should build up first.

Mostly for fun at the beginning, since I have not done PvP in FE before (I will most likely put in the units I enjoyed using in the Story)

the 12th year.... i remember.... was in the same situation two years ago^^

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Hey guys. Just joined, and I'm glad to see that there's already a thread for this. I was thinking of making a competitive Fire Emblem: Fates club at my high school this upcoming year (possibly as a senior project), and had already started developing a ruleset. Looking things over, this is pretty close to what I was starting on, although there are a few differences. This is what I might want to add to what's already here:

  • The Yato is banned

The Conquest and Birthright versions aren't that bad, but the Revelation version is a tad scary. Ideally, the ruleset needs to be made to where anyone playing any version of Fates could take part in it equally. I'm all for keeping Seigfried/Raijinto and Brynhildr/Fujin Yumi in play, but the Yato is a bit much. Those being mentioned:

  • Limit of one Sacred Weapon per team

This refers to Raijinto, Seigfried, Brynhildr, and the Fujin Yumi. I'm assuming we're only using five units per team like standard online PvP, and having 2/5ths or 4/5ths of a team with these weapons seems to be a bit much. Also consider that if the cap was set to two, Revelation players would only need to pick 2/4 available to them while Birthright and Conquest players would have to go with their full 2/2 Sacred Weapons.

  • Only three Weaponbreaker skills per team

Additionally, units may only have one Breaker skill equipped at a time (so no Lancebreaker and Shurikenbreaer equipped at once), and no duplicate Breaker skills per team may be permitted (ex., using all three of those slots for Swordbreaker).

  • Limit two units with Hoshidan Unity per team
  • Limit one unit with Lethality per team

In addition, if a unit has Lethality, they're not permitted to have a combination of Pavise and Aegis; just one or the other.

Edit (8:40 PM, PDT): No, there's no getting around this with a support partner, either. If supported, the supporter is also under the restriction.

  • Renewal + Better Odds + Even Better is banned

Because recovering 70% of your HP per turn is a little ridiculous. Renewal + BO or Renewal + EB is fine.

  • Limit three Venge Weapons per team

I'm not sure if this should be set to two or three, but either way, if the opponent constantly leaves these equipped at the end of their Phases, sending your units against them becomes hard to do without taking absurd amounts of damage or dying all together.

----

That wasn't everything, however, anything else I would've said would've been redundant with the current rules, anyway. I do have my own thoughts on the posted rules, though...

3- Galeforce with both Spendthrift and life and death are banned.

I hadn't thought about this before, and I especially spaced on Spendthrift. Good call.

-

5- No statues. (They can be broken and placed before and after for no cost so it is not detrimental.)

Thank goodness.

-

6- No forged weapons.

That's interesting. I'm a tad split on this one, although I can understand why this is here. Facing down a forged +2/+3 Venge Weapon is not my idea of fun, not to mention hacking.

-

7- No tonics or stat boosting items.

Would this also apply to mid-battle Seal usage as well? I do believe there are ways one can tactically change Classes in the middle of battle.

-

9- All bond, einherjar, amiibo and prison units are banned. (Exceptions could be made if both players agree on it.)

Again, thank goodness. I've seen a tutorial on how to max out stats on these units with no effort at all.

-

10- Boots are banned. (Still undecided.)

I wouldn't ban these, rather, limit them to maybe three per team (assuming teams of five), and only one per unit.

----

Well, there's my two cents. I'd be more than interested to hear any of your guys' thoughts and criticisms on it all. Quick question: what are the general thoughts on accessories used in castle battles with regard to the rules? Personally, I'm not too sure about them just because I think they're another part of the game, but at the same time, in battle, they seem like something that gets in the way of seeing the players' raw skill, if that makes any sense (I'm not entirely sure of how to word my thoughts on it).

Edited by Red Striker

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Edit for clarity: Pokemon isa good example, you get 6 mons 24 move slots and 3048 ev's per team, smogon can do spot bans because of this limitation of resources, with further limitations on natures breeding movepools etc. Fates has no limitations so jumping straight to spotbans leads to an excessively large ruleset and potentially stale metagame right off the bat. A simpler and more elegant first step would be limitation of resources.

Example:

1: Revelations, Skill buying, einherjar, the lottery shop and non-free DLC aside from Boo camp and Ghostly gold are banned

2: The hard level cap is 20, forge is banned

3: (for clarity) Path bonuses, visitation, and battle bonuses are legal. A (Another) gift from anna, and before awakening are legal.

Creativity gets to be a thing in builds. Boosters allow for caps/statues to matter without requiring endless resets making it an easy format to get into. Builds are held in check by hard limits to skill/class/level/weapon availability. It's easy to remember. It's easy to regulate in tours (open a spreadsheet and ask for a list of A+/S supported units). It's easy to spot ban OP units or relax forge/level caps later on.

Edited by joshcja

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1: Revelations, skill buying (sans aptitude), einherjar, the lottery shop and non-free DLC aside from Boo camp are banned

So only Birthrigth as PvP? Even if you allow Boo Camp, Birthrigth is at a clear advantage in terms of ressources over Conquest. (leavin aside the fact that nearly everyone has to restart his/her file since most PvP teams are from revalation files.)

E: Leavin aside some other big problems that your short-cut does not counter.

Edited by 17thSeraph

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So only Birthrigth as PvP? Even if you allow Boo Camp, Birthrigth is at a clear advantage in terms of ressources over Conquest. (leavin aside the fact that nearly everyone has to restart his/her file since most PvP teams are from revalation files.)

E: Leavin aside some other big problems that your short-cut does not counter.

Glorious nippon as a mono pool requires a significant amount of preparation to manage with mono CQ's habit of vomiting mobility and raw damage due the inherent frailty of that cast.

Edited by joshcja

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Glorious nippon as a mono pool requires a significant amount of preparation to manage with mono CQ's habit of vomiting mobility and raw damage due the inherent frailty of that cast.

Edit: Well curses guess we'd all have to live without full suites of +7 brave/effectivness weps on an alt file.

Raw damage and frailtyy doens,t mean anytthing in the face of +7 forgdt weapons. A kinshi knigth with a +7 silver Yumi und silver Naginata can easilie kill nearly everything (especilly in combination with spendthrift and/or Lie or Death). Have 2 of them on the team and good bye fair play. Even under your restriction a kinshi knigth can get 12 movement. Combine it with warp Azura (you can get one witch for free) or galeforce (you can get 2 Dark Falcons without DLC) and 11 movement and say agian that Conquest has the edge in mobility.

Further if you want to change your team a bit you have to restart the whole game, which is no fun...

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Raw damage and frailtyy doens,t mean anytthing in the face of +7 forgdt weapons. A kinshi knigth with a +7 silver Yumi und silver Naginata can easilie kill nearly everything (especilly in combination with spendthrift and/or Lie or Death). Have 2 of them on the team and good bye fair play. Even under your restriction a kinshi knigth can get 12 movement. Combine it with warp Azura (you can get one witch for free) or galeforce (you can get 2 Dark Falcons without DLC) and 11 movement and say agian that Conquest has the edge in mobility.

Further if you want to change your team a bit you have to restart the whole game, which is no fun...

Yeah I edited things for a faster startup and a temp hardcap noforge a while ago. It takes up 2 lines now with a spare for clarity. The idea is still that limitation of resources rather than outright bans leads to a meta that is is a whole lot easier to build and maintain, plus it creates a different metagame for people who are obviously annoyed with the current one.

I assume people would just cheat for minor changes or suck up the big 30 minute-1 hour reset for a normal/casual run reset.

As for this stupid debate....Conquest has nigh unlimited move+1 (this matters I swear) and one more boot with (not counting nhorin) 3 gen 1 parents having inherent kinshi access. That's 4 kids, 3-7 marriages, and a whole shipyard of A+ supports to spread bird genetics around while the entire cast has free draco/pony access. Cq just has more move. Why is this hard to accept?

On a closing note... assumed this whole thing is on the honor system, if you're thirsty enough for a win to grind +7 in a closed pvp setting just for that 30 seconds of glory and a subsequent nobody playing you ever again... I got nothing.

Edited by joshcja

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Hey guys. Just joined, and I'm glad to see that there's already a thread for this. I was thinking of making a competitive Fire Emblem: Fates club at my high school this upcoming year (possibly as a senior project), and had already started developing a ruleset. Looking things over, this is pretty close to what I was starting on, although there are a few differences. This is what I might want to add to what's already here:

  • The Yato is banned

The Conquest and Birthright versions aren't that bad, but the Revelation version is a tad scary. Ideally, the ruleset needs to be made to where anyone playing any version of Fates could take part in it equally. I'm all for keeping Seigfried/Raijinto and Brynhildr/Fujin Yumi in play, but the Yato is a bit much. Those being mentioned:

  • Limit of one Sacred Weapon per team

This refers to Raijinto, Seigfried, Brynhildr, and the Fujin Yumi. I'm assuming we're only using five units per team like standard online PvP, and having 2/5ths or 4/5ths of a team with these weapons seems to be a bit much. Also consider that if the cap was set to two, Revelation players would only need to pick 2/4 available to them while Birthright and Conquest players would have to go with their full 2/2 Sacred Weapons.

  • Only three Weaponbreaker skills per team

Additionally, units may only have one Breaker skill equipped at a time (so no Lancebreaker and Shurikenbreaer equipped at once), and no duplicate Breaker skills per team may be permitted (ex., using all three of those slots for Swordbreaker).

  • Limit two units with Hoshidan Unity per team
  • Limit one unit with Lethality per team

In addition, if a unit has Lethality, they're not permitted to have a combination of Pavise and Aegis; just one or the other.

Edit (8:40 PM, PDT): No, there's no getting around this with a support partner, either. If supported, the supporter is also under the restriction.

  • Renewal + Better Odds + Even Better is banned

Because recovering 70% of your HP per turn is a little ridiculous. Renewal + BO or Renewal + EB is fine.

  • Limit three Venge Weapons per team

I'm not sure if this should be set to two or three, but either way, if the opponent constantly leaves these equipped at the end of their Phases, sending your units against them becomes hard to do without taking absurd amounts of damage or dying all together.

----

That wasn't everything, however, anything else I would've said would've been redundant with the current rules, anyway. I do have my own thoughts on the posted rules, though...

3- Galeforce with both Spendthrift and life and death are banned.

I hadn't thought about this before, and I especially spaced on Spendthrift. Good call.

-

5- No statues. (They can be broken and placed before and after for no cost so it is not detrimental.)

Thank goodness.

-

6- No forged weapons.

That's interesting. I'm a tad split on this one, although I can understand why this is here. Facing down a forged +2/+3 Venge Weapon is not my idea of fun, not to mention hacking.

-

7- No tonics or stat boosting items.

Would this also apply to mid-battle Seal usage as well? I do believe there are ways one can tactically change Classes in the middle of battle.

-

9- All bond, einherjar, amiibo and prison units are banned. (Exceptions could be made if both players agree on it.)

Again, thank goodness. I've seen a tutorial on how to max out stats on these units with no effort at all.

-

10- Boots are banned. (Still undecided.)

I wouldn't ban these, rather, limit them to maybe three per team (assuming teams of five), and only one per unit.

----

Well, there's my two cents. I'd be more than interested to hear any of your guys' thoughts and criticisms on it all. Quick question: what are the general thoughts on accessories used in castle battles with regard to the rules? Personally, I'm not too sure about them just because I think they're another part of the game, but at the same time, in battle, they seem like something that gets in the way of seeing the players' raw skill, if that makes any sense (I'm not entirely sure of how to word my thoughts on it).

Glad to hear we have more and more people on board with this idea. While I think it is fine to limit the royal weapons, I really don't think it is necessary. Corrin needs all the help he can get as he is stuck with the dragon weakness meaning wyrmslayer/dragon spirits will be scary.

With the other weapons, they aren't completely scary but we may want to look in to this a bit more.

Lethality in our rules can only be used once on a unit anyway along with aegis and pavise. The combination may need to be restricted though as tanking everything and waiting for lethality proc is a fair annoyance.

With the healing skills, I guess I agree but it is probably fair to look in to it a bit more first.

Venge weapons are usually fine as long as they aren't on a tanky unit. As for forging, we will most likely be allowing legal +1s tops. The problem with venge weapons is you a) lose that first turn to attack, b) miss out on a lot of attacking opportunities and c) rely on the enemy not being able to effectively counter your unit.

Using a seal mid-game requires a turn and wastes a lot of inventory space plus only has one use. Probably not that useful to begin with.

Hoshidan unity is not a hugely OP skill but with our rules, it is already limited anyway.

Our rules already counter anything OP about breaker skills much like yours.

Boots is still in controversy but the general rule at the moment is banned. I personally think this is better as it can make flier teams even more ridiculous and also allows for some crazy support staff that is a little on the OP side.

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First off, I apologize for not setting up the Discord server and finalizing the rules as I promised to do a few days ago... some things have been happening in my personal life that prevented me from dedicating enough time to this. I'll catch up on the discussions currently going on and adjust the rules accordingly, and I'll hopefully get to setting up the server soon.

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First off, I apologize for not setting up the Discord server and finalizing the rules as I promised to do a few days ago... some things have been happening in my personal life that prevented me from dedicating enough time to this. I'll catch up on the discussions currently going on and adjust the rules accordingly, and I'll hopefully get to setting up the server soon.

Don't worry, we don't have a time limit :P RL takes priority^^

Edited by 17thSeraph

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First off, I apologize for not setting up the Discord server and finalizing the rules as I promised to do a few days ago... some things have been happening in my personal life that prevented me from dedicating enough time to this. I'll catch up on the discussions currently going on and adjust the rules accordingly, and I'll hopefully get to setting up the server soon.

Don't worry, we don't have a time limit :P RL takes priority^^

Pretty much this ^ Take your time. We aren't going anywhere fast. Besides, I won't have a team for a LONG time so its actually decent for me xD

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galeforce+replicate when used efficiently is kind of overpowered...just something to look into. I used a MyCastle Corrin that had this against another team and koed 4 people in a row.

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galeforce+replicate when used efficiently is kind of overpowered...just something to look into. I used a MyCastle Corrin that had this against another team and koed 4 people in a row.

Already considered in Rule #3 on the first post ^^

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