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Dinar87

How many 'Defend for X truns' chapters or there?

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Only one chapter and it's in Conquest. But it's also one of my favourite/best chapters in the entire game imo. It's my favourite defense map in the entire series too.

Edited by kingddd

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only 1, and that's chapter 10 in conquest.

which really sucks cause even though that chapter busted many balls it was still fun as hell.

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That's extremely disapointing...so much for fates being "the best in the series" according to """"professional reviewers"""" LMFAO!!!

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Well, you have also the Vanguard Dawn DLC, which is a defense Map based on Elincias Gambit from Radiant Dawn. It is more emjoyable than the defense Map of Conquest (sadly...)

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That's extremely disapointing...so much for fates being "the best in the series" according to """"professional reviewers"""" LMFAO!!!

Fates has still some escape missions and some other new interesting gimmicks.

Revelations is the path of the gimmicks.

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Maybe I'm being too harsh on fates but I can't deny that ONE defense chapter is absolutley pathetic. I just hope there's more variety in conquest's missions because, if not, I'll fail to understand how conquest has "the best gameplay in the series" which I heard multiple times.

Edited by Dinar87

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Sacred Stones had only two defense maps and Radiant Dawn has around 40 chapters and only has two defense maps.

Edited by Water Mage

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But still, for it to be the best in the series (for me at leats) it would require a good amount of chapter mission variety. Still, I don't know why I had high hopes when not even radiant dawn got that right.

Edited by Dinar87

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But still, for it to be the best in the series (for me at leats) it would require a good amount of chapter mission variety. Still, I don't know why I had high hopes when not even radiant dawn got that right.

There's plenty of mission variety in Conquest.

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If you're curious, there are defend, rout, escape, seize and defeat boss as mission objectives in Conquest.

If I'm not mistaken the most common mission objective in Conquest is Seize.

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If you're curious, there are defend, rout, escape, seize and defeat boss as mission objectives in Conquest.

If I'm not mistaken the most common mission objective in Conquest is Seize.

Also Rout before a certain enemy escapes.

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But still, for it to be the best in the series (for me at leats) it would require a good amount of chapter mission variety.

You must really hate FE4 and FE6.

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[spoiler=Mission type on Conquest chapters and side mission not including paralogues]

Ch. 6: Defeat 4 enemies

Ch. 7: Rout

Ch. 8: Defeat the boss (best reward if you visit 3 villages before the messenger soldier does)

Ch. 9: Seize (has capturable boss; stealth mission for Azura)

Ch. 10: Defend for 11 turns (killing Takumi for his Elixir may be tempting if you want to prevent him from popping that Dragon Vein)

Ch. 11: Defeat boss (you're likely gonna rout if you want all the exp. and loot)

Ch. 12: Defeat boss or have Corrin escape in 16 turns (Elise cannot be used; Link from Legend of Zelda would get triggered on this map)

Ch. 13: Rout (visit all villages if you want all the rewards)

Ch. 14: Defeat boss (boss can be captured)

Ch. 15: Escape or defeat the boss in 20 turns (extreme lowmanning; MUST use the Dragon Vein if you want to obtain loot and defeat the boss)

Ch. 16: Defeat boss (must speak to all NPC soldiers on the map; cash reward for chapter completion shrinks as turns progress)

Ch. 17: Defeat boss (also an escort mission of sorts for a certain NPC unit if you want all rewards)

Ch. 18: Defeat all bosses in 20 turns (3 bosses to be killed; 2 of them are Generals)

Ch. 19: Rout (Kitsune have illusion mechanic)

Ch. 20: Seize (Fuga's Wild Ride)

Ch. 21: All deployed units must escape (infinite reinforcements with Void Curse skill; Void Curse ensures that 0 exp. is earned for killing the unit with that skill)

Ch. 22: Seize

Ch. 23: Seize (boss will use ballista turret; infamous "Rallymaster" to capture on Lunatic)

Ch. 24: Seize (have fun with the Dragon Veins)

Ch. 25: Defeat boss (have Corrin solo the boss or have Corrin's allies take out the boss's retainers in order to help Corrin)

Ch. 26: Seize (Staff Savant cancer)

Ch. 27: Defeat boss

Endgame: Defeat boss (the final boss is actually a Sniper!)

Takumi and Hinoka can be seen running currently unreleased DLC skills. Takumi can be seen running Point Blank and Bold Stance and Hinoka can be seen running Wing Shield. Takumi can also be seen running hacks in the form of Draconic Hex. Kagero and Shura can also be seen running illegitimate skills on Hard and above.

Edited by Roflolxp54

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You must really hate FE4 and FE6.

I don't get it either. Fire Emblem has always been fairly poor at giving varied and interesting map objectives. There's a few games like FE5 that do it well (and even then, the majority is still Seize), but the majority of maps have always been Rout, Seize, or Defeat Boss. With the latter two being effectively the same, and even comparable to Rout since unless a time limit you might want to kill everything on the map for experience. Edited by Tryhard

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In case you don't want to open the spoiler:

Adding there are also defeating boss and seize chapters with a turn limit.

One of those defeat boss with a turn limit chapters features 3 different bosses instead of one and the other one also has an optional objective if defeating the boss proves to be too difficult.

Chapters with similar objectives can also be very different simply because there are dragon veins or because of other factors. For instance , C16 is a defeat boss chapter but in reality you have a semi-turn limit (there's a gold reward and the more turns pass the less gold you get), you have to reach 4 spots and then defeat the boss.

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I don't get it either. Fire Emblem has always been fairly poor at giving varied and interesting map objectives. There's a few games like FE5 that do it well (and even then, the majority is still Seize), but the majority of maps have always been Rout, Seize, or Defeat Boss. With the latter two being effectively the same, and even comparable to Rout since unless a time limit you might want to kill everything on the map for experience.

Well let's just say I expected more from something that was apparently the "best in the series"...I guess I just expected too much.

Edited by Dinar87

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Shared chapters prior to the route-split feature

- 2 defeat boss chapters (one of them terminates automatically in 2 turns)

- 3 rout chapters

- 1 seize chapter

Conquest after the route-split features

- 3 rout chapters

- 8 defeat boss chapters

- 6 seize chapters

- 1 defence chapter

- 1 escape chapter (In a sense there are actually 3: see right below)

- 4 hybrid chapters (Defeat X enemies / Defeat boss OR escape with Avatar in X turns / Defeat boss OR escape with all units in X turns / Defeat all bosses in X turns)

Shared paralogues in all three routes feature

- 2 rout chapters

- 4 defeat boss chapters

Conquest/Revelation-exclusive paralogues feature

- 6 rout chapters

- 2 hybrid chapters (Rout and activate all Dragon Veins / Rout before the boss escapes)

On one hand, this is a striking contrast from Awakening or Birthright which primarily feature rout as its map objectives. On the other, one may be disappointed by the lingering predominance of certain map objectives (defeat boss, seize) even in the Conquest route; it seems that not much has changed in terms of variety of map objectives and hence variety of gameplay. However I believe the latter line of thought is quite misleading; simply counting the number and distribution of map objectives of is a rather unfair criteria of judging the quality and even variety of map design in a Fire Emblem title, and particularly against Conquest's underlying philosophy of differentiating chapters.

If you think about it, the objective of a map is typically its terminating condition i.e. how you end the map. Admittedly all the things that you do within a map are steps that you take to achieve the objective, but this isn't to say that the displayed objective is what the player is pre-occupied with for most of the map; sure, Defense and Escape objectives shape how you play the map, and Rout to some extent, but when it comes to Seize and Defeat Boss, the map objective doesn't actually tell you much about the map itself. For example, consider a desert chapter and the final endgame chapter of a Fire Emblem title, both of which have 'defeat boss' as its map objective. This isn't to say that the two maps are going to similar in how the player is going to approach the chapter. All that the map objective tells you in this case is that you can end the map by defeating the boss, but there's a lot more to the map than the boss in a typical Fire Emblem game since much of what the chapter is is about what you do along the way before you clear the objective.

Incidentally Seize and Defeat Boss are map types predominantly featured in the Conquest route. But Conquest manages to give variety to chapters by means other than the map objective. Much of this is facilitated by a defining gimmicks of each chapter: One chapter force you to rush to villages before enemy units pull reinforcements out of them for better rewards at the end of the chapter. Another has a hidden boss in the map who 'steals' some of your reward every turn until you identify and eliminate him. Yet another is a Duel chapter between the boss and the Avatar in a confined area, which can be terminated either by winning the Duel or by having the rest of your units travel through the map that features some of the most dangerous enemy units in the game and remove mini-bosses to open the confined area and eliminate the boss using them instead. All of these three chapters are labelled under 'defeat boss', but the 'defeating the boss' part of the objective is not the only, sometimes not even a predominant, part of what the map is about, not only because there is a lot going on in these maps otherwise, but also that there are gimmicks within these chapters that differentiate maps of the same displayed objective. Similar comments apply to 'Seize' chapters, and IMO the lategame Seize chapters are one of the most creative in the series. Indeed, I feel that many of the strengths of Conquest's map designs come from how the map unfolds itself through these gimmicks. In addition, the bosses in Conquest can prove to be formidable, stationary or non-stationary, so while they don't make up most of the map they aren't a negligible factor at all.

In particular, when it comes to Defense chapters, in some sense Conquest Ch. 10 isn't actually the ONLY Defense chapter in the Conquest route. One of the members mentioned Kana's Paralogue which acts as a semi-defense chapter as one does not want any enemies to come into his/her range; I think I have a different (and perhaps better) example in Conquest. Paralogue 21, one of the Conquest/Revelation-exclusive paralogues is technically labelled under 'Rout the Enemy'. But the chapter has enemies approaching from different corners and edges of the map, and reinforcements spawning from those areas after a few turns regularly until a certain turn. Moving towards the center of a map, in addition to a recruitable unit, are various stationary semi-competent NPC Lancers guarding certain choke points. The map presents players with an obvious (though undisplayed) side objective; keep as many of these Lancers alive as possible by the end of the chapter for additional rewards. In addition, one can 'shape terrain' by picking up and placing crates dispersed throughout the map, which allows one to create additional choke points, block enemies and affect enemy behaviour. But one cannot trivialise the map by turtling or choking since the enemies are sufficiently strong (their levels and stats scale with your progression in the main chapters) and are fairly varied in their class and weaponry, not to mention that they spawn regularly enough to overwhelm the player if one is not careful enough - the number of 'chokable points' exceeds the number of crates, Lancers and deployable units. So while the displayed objective tells you to rout the enemy, much of the challenge of this map comes from protecting your units and Lancers while eliminating enemies as they come so that your units and the NPCs don't become swarmed; in other words, the map itself plays more like a defense chapter, only without an explicit turn limit.

IMO The problem with some FE titles regarding its lack of map objective variety ('most of the game are rout chapters') predominantly lie in the execution of these gimmicks. Even rout chapters aren't inherently bad, if each map manages to present itself in an interesting and varied way to the player, encouraging one to strategize accordingly. The problem with having stream of rout chapters is not predominantly that there are multiple rout chapters, but that they elongate the pacing of the game for little interesting reason. The Kaga-games pre-FE5, were all Seize and even pre-FE7While I do think that more variety could have been in order, I don't think Conquest has a bad case of map variety in this sense. I guess you might be 'expecting more from the game', which I can understand, but perhaps consider for a while that there may be a bit more to these games than just that.

TL:DR - Variety of map objectives are one indicator of quality and variety in gameplay, but focusing on that alone as an indicator can be misleading, and especially so for Conquest.
Edited by Aggro Incarnate

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Well let's just say I expected more from something that was apparently the "best in the series"...I guess I just expected too much.

According to some people's subjective opinions. I've heard people say that they think FE6 is the best in the series but I haven't jumped down their throats about everything I think that's wrong with it. I don't think the opinion that Fates is the best is a common one here, and even if it was it isn't because of map objectives. Edited by Tryhard

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