How would you improve the Avatar?

[Sentinel07]

I always see many topics around here wondering how you would personally improve the series. More often than not, getting the Avatar system out is a common idea many share. I'd be lying if I said I didn't share that opinion.

However, it's pretty clear that that will not be the case. There's little chance Intelligent Systems will remove it. They'll take the series in the direction they want to go, though they have shown that they're not adverse to fan reception, given how Fates improved on many of Awakening's complaints.

So, with that in mind, I'd be curious to hear thoughts on how you think the Avatar system could become a lot better. Personality? Gameplay? Whatever works for you.

[Light Strategist]

Whilst it could be more challenging to implement, I actually feel that giving dialogue options or a personality feature that affects dialogue would be great on the personality front.

Regarding gameplay... I'd like the option to decide your avatar's immediate background (not unlike FE12's options) featuring specie choices too. Heck, I'd actually like it to go as far as to be able to name your ancestors, just for that extra immersion quality.

[Lord_Grima]

Whilst it could be more challenging to implement, I actually feel that giving dialogue options or a personality feature that affects dialogue would be great on the personality front.

Regarding gameplay... I'd like the option to decide your avatar's immediate background (not unlike FE12's options) featuring specie choices too. Heck, I'd actually like it to go as far as to be able to name your ancestors, just for that extra immersion quality.

I think Personalities would be a great idea, and also in that instead of a default starting class that you then have to change classes to determine the Avatar's role. So instead of starting defaultly as a Tactician or a Noble you can customize your Avatar to start the game as anything you want.

[Azure Sen]

1. Give the player the ability to choose a preset personality. Even if it just changes how some dialogue is spoken/written, it's still flavor that makes them more interesting as characters.

2. Instead of having a boon/bane (since the boon/bane system is pretty limited), let the player directly decide the base growths. Each growth would have a minimum or maximum value you could decrease/increase it to, and a limited number of points to increase or decrease the growths by.

3. When the player chooses a secondary class, have the Avatar start in that class and give them the ability to class change to their primary class later, after a major plot event.

4. Alternatively, don't give the Avatar a unique class at all and just let the player pick their class like in New Mystery.

5. More hair, face, and age options, and actual skin color options. Corrin was dreadfully limited because he had to be a certain age.

6. If there's a character the Avatar has a pre-existing relationship with a character, don't make them plot important unless absolutely necessary, and limit it to only one.

7. Let the player choose the gender of the Avatar's child, if (s)he does have a unique child.

8. Don't make the Avatar the main character.

[MCProductions]

Story wise, I think aim to make him like Itsuki in TMS#FE. There's dialogue choices all thruout that game, and if you're a dick with your choices like me, the characters will call you out on it, even if it doesn't make a difference to the plot.

gameplay wise, as much as I LOATHE FE12's avatar, hell, I like Robin and Corrin, but I can't stand Kris, FE12 did do the avatar the best gameplay wise

[NekoKnight]

The two greatest flaws of the avatar system are player worship and having a bland personality. So here's how I would handle it.

Personality: At character creation, you can select a background which would determine the personality of your character. The Avatar's support options would change depending on your choice. Not everyone will get along with everyone and that's perfectly okay. I'd like to get away from "magical charisma shonen hero" protagonists.

Marriage: You know this feature will never go away so they might as well do it right. Instead of marriage being for eugenics or spontaneous 'love blossoming on the battlefield', it would be for political reasons. Let's say that at some point in the story you need to secure military/political support from another group but you can only ally with one faction. Marrying a character from a certain faction will give you additional equipment, characters and unique maps to play. You would also be able to reject a marriage (if say there were a character you wanted to marry later). Every choice would have story and gameplay consequences. No children. This limits what the story can do and leads to awkward, spontaneous romances.

Customization: Let us change the race and other physical features. More builds, more voices, more facial traits. If the character gets a unique weapon, let it morph to whatever is the primary weapon of your current class.

Story: No matter what the story is, let the protagonist be flawed. Let him make mistakes and be called out for them. Also, don't make the story about the Avatar. The Avatar isn't a messiah and other characters have their own dreams and ambitions that don't revolve around him.

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[kittenrobotarmy]

Pretty much what NekoKnight said is what I'd love in a new FE game. It wasn't a huge problem in Awakening for me, but in Fates, the amount of Avatar worship and stupid decisions on the Avatar's part is insane. I want the Avatar to be customizable beyond their facial features, hair and voice, and have what they do actually matter.

Make the Avatar flawed, and have others actually understand and reflect on the Avatar's decisions. Your sword exploded in the middle of the town square, rendering their queen and countless citizens dead? Even if it wasn't the Avatar that caused that explosion, it doesn't mean they should be told 'no no it definitely wasn't your fault' by literally everyone except for one person, which is exactly what happens in Fates to Corrin. Give them decisions to make and have others really react to the Avatar in other ways than worshipping them and forgiving their every mistake. While there was some Avatar worshipping in Awakening, it wasn't as pronounced as it was in Fates. What makes it worse is that Corrin is royalty of literally every kingdom, so people that would normally be dead set against joining Corrin would just because 'oh they're royalty, so I must'. /begin new rant

Speaking of Corrin, his personality annoys me. Maybe it's only female Corrin since I've only played as a female in Fates, but Corrin is incredibly naive and the typical hero, with wanting to save the innocent and refusing to harm anyone if they can't fight back. This kind of personality makes me wish we could choose how our Avatar acts, and changes the story, even if it's just dialogue. It would make me so happy to have an Avatar that I can actually understand personality wise, and make the situations they're in more believable. /rant over

TL;DR: Stop Avatar worshipping and let us choose their personality, as well as further customize their appearance.

[Sentinel07]

The two greatest flaws of the avatar system are player worship and having a bland personality. So here's how I would handle it.

Personality: At character creation, you can select a background which would determine the personality of your character. The Avatar's support options would change depending on your choice. Not everyone will get along with everyone and that's perfectly okay. I'd like to get away from "magical charisma shonen hero" protagonists.

Marriage: You know this feature will never go away so they might as well do it right. Instead of marriage being for eugenics or spontaneous 'love blossoming on the battlefield', it would be for political reasons. Let's say that at some point in the story you need to secure military/political support from another group but you can only ally with one faction. Marrying a character from a certain faction will give you additional equipment, characters and unique maps to play. You would also be able to reject a marriage (if say there were a character you wanted to marry later). Every choice would have story and gameplay consequences. No children. This limits what the story can do and leads to awkward, spontaneous romances.

Customization: Let us change the race and other physical features. More builds, more voices, more facial traits. If the character gets a unique weapon, let it morph to whatever is the primary weapon of your current class.

Story: No matter what the story is, let the protagonist be flawed. Let him make mistakes and be called out for them. Also, don't make the story about the Avatar. The Avatar isn't a messiah and other characters have their own dreams and ambitions that don't revolve around him.

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The whole political marriage thing sounds quite intriguing, though also pretty complex. I'd really be curious to see how that would turn out.

[Roflolxp54]

Alternatively, if having customizable personalities is too much to ask for due to localization troubles (in the Japanese version of Awakening, the voice options also slightly change the text dialogue due to differences in speech patterns; this is NOT seen in the English localization), make the avatar a mute character.

[Alastor15243]

Honestly, while I get the appeal of a character you can customize, I don't get the appeal of a character who is intentionally left as generic as possible to avoid any personality traits that prevent projection. And more to the point, you should never base a story around such a character, it's not interesting.

But I think most importantly of all...

Just make it clear that the avatar is actually a good strategist. Please. If we're talking about behaviors that break projection, being stupid in a strategy game has to be at the top of the list.

[Agro]

silent protagonist

[Hli Tshiab]

I like how Dragon Age: Origins and Skyrim did the avatar... silent.

Like they have voices, but it's mainly groans and screams and etc.

Then there's the multiple options that you can choose from in a conversation, which makes it feel more like you're avatar you know?

I hate Corrin, because they should be dead for how stupid they are. Stupid people like that in real life usually die, or suffer. Corrin does not die and does not suffer enough, Wtf is up with everyone loving him?

Love female Corrin's design, but gosh both Corrins are just not tolerable at all! Bland is bland, but niceness is stupidity when niceness is more than nice.

[CynicalSeven]

I like how Desu2 handle their Avatar. Different choices trigger different dialogues which affects support points while still following the linear story line. Sarcastic remarks will get support points from sarcastic characters, etc...

It gave the Avatar his own unique personality which the player could self-insert themselves into.

Basically, a silent protagonist.

Edited July 15, 2016 by CynicalSeven

[Lord_Grima]

Between Awakening and Fates, Robin had some better character development because he had no idea who he was, he was just knew that he was a tactician. Then as the story progressed you found out more about them, and how they had a little "dark side". Corrin was forced into a character role as a sheltered noble who is very optimistic and wants to trust everyone and does not want to kill for the sake of killing.

So if they could make another "blank-slate" character with a main trait (maybe determined by player, either with a class or a choice of a personality trait) like Robin and then allow the player to develop their avatar throughout the game, I think that would work a lot better.

[jonson]

Mostly getting to choose both your classes and start off as that (and letting us choose from all classes, villager, wolfskin or whatever), and not make the Avatar the protagonist (not like the last of the butlers, but not the prince), by doing that they could implement personality choice since it wouldn't change the story too much.

I see a lot of people complaining that Corrin has that kind and trustful personality, but if you could choose the personality, they would have to basically rewrite all the game (and not just the dialogues) based on what you are picking, that's too much work (and we'd lose on quality).

If you are just the tactician of the army (Robin like but with less 'son of the bad guy' thing) then you can customize your personality without having to remake the game.

Edited July 15, 2016 by jonson

[Namarid]

Customisiable tactician class: Start with any weapon type in the game ( excluding staves for obvious reasons), upon promotion you gain a second weapon of your choice or choose to use a staff.

Dont limit them to a personal weapon which is one weapon type (I'm not going to use the yato with a str flaw and mag asset).

Personality choices that lead to different support pools.

Not a main character: I personally found robins role in the story to be fine,except during the end, and I wouldn't mind it being emulated in another game. Corrin sucks as a protag and negatively affects the characters in the story.

[Roflolxp54]

Personality choices that lead to different support pools.

It's just my opinion, but I'm not fond of this unless the total character cast is MUCH smaller than what's typically seen in Fire Emblem. Support grinding in Awakening and Fates is super annoying, especially in the latter as all 3 routes and Anna's DLC map has to at least be started twice each alongside the game having an overall total character cast of 71.

[makuroh]

For the love of god, just don't make them the main character. And if they are, just drop the player worship, I can live with everything else but not this.

[InsaneNoire]

1. Make him/her less dumb

2. Give him/her more hairstyle/facial/skin color options

3. Give him/her more personality choices

4. DO NOT MAKE HIM/HER THE FUCKING MAIN CHARACTER

[paladin21]

Between Awakening and Fates, Robin had some better character development because he had no idea who he was, he was just knew that he was a tactician. Then as the story progressed you found out more about them, and how they had a little "dark side". Corrin was forced into a character role as a sheltered noble who is very optimistic and wants to trust everyone and does not want to kill for the sake of killing.

So if they could make another "blank-slate" character with a main trait (maybe determined by player, either with a class or a choice of a personality trait) like Robin and then allow the player to develop their avatar throughout the game, I think that would work a lot better.

I like this idea of character developing through the game, with several (5-6) personality gauges (slightly more complex than the lawful-chaotic/good-evil). I'd go even further: take this to the supports. In each support, the player gets one to three choices (depending on the support level) that would move one of his gauges up or down, unlocking higher level supports (each support would have requirements, so that if you develop an aggressive personality, pacifist characters won't want to support you). Also, if you stray from a path you've taken, like becoming reckless when you used to be cautious, you'd lose the benefits of the support and get an extra short conversation, being called everything but beautiful by your former best pal. I'd also make conversations be more relevant to the plot as the story progresses, so that you could get an entirely different story for this character every time to get all the supports.

Then, at certain game points, you'd get crucial points for your character that would give a greater boost to one of his personality gauges, and maybe change his personal skill.

Customisiable tactician class: Start with any weapon type in the game ( excluding staves for obvious reasons), upon promotion you gain a second weapon of your choice or choose to use a staff.

Dont limit them to a personal weapon which is one weapon type (I'm not going to use the yato with a str flaw and mag asset).

Personality choices that lead to different support pools.

Not a main character: I personally found robins role in the story to be fine,except during the end, and I wouldn't mind it being emulated in another game. Corrin sucks as a protag and negatively affects the characters in the story.

Like I've said in other forums, I'd give every character a favourite weapon, accessible from every class. If the custom character gets a special weapon, it'd match its talent main weapon.

[saisymbolic]

I pretty much agree with most of the suggestions on here. I would like:

-More customization options, specifically skin and hair options. Hair color, I don't have a problem with because I tend to stick with literally about three colors.

-As for class options, I don't particularly mind a unique class or generic class but I am hoping for another lance soldier-based class. Perhaps class and base growths can be randomized by certain background options similar to FE12 but more like Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines, while also allowing the option of choosing each individual stat be present for those that want to min-max.

-I actually don't mind main character avatars; it's when the lack of flaw acknowledgment happens. Still, I would prefer a supporting character avatar that serves as the eyes for the player and, through such a narrative, would offer a sort of biased, unreliable view of the story that would slowly unfold and be altered depending on certain dialogue options and maybe even faction options.

-Personality. I'd like it if certain personality choices locks you into certain factions or characters. Similar to the SMT (which I frequently reference for some reason) series, let's say you have a "chaos" character and you decided you want the benefits of the "law" faction, you can't have that because you were a jackass and you have to face the consequences--or rather, your views don't align with theirs. Or something like that.

I don't know. There are many ways to do an avatar system.

[Augestein]

Gameplay

- If the character is a non-generic class, let us pick out starter weapon and our PRF weapon should follow suit. no BTW, your character uses swords as their special weapon -- which prompts the player to try to get a secondary class that lets them keep their preferred weapon. Or just don't give our character a special weapon at all.

- The avatar should follow the same rules as everyone else. If they keep the A+ support system for instance, the Avatar should keep the same system. (S)he should not be allowed to break that rule. No extra reclasses that the other units don't have. None of that. If your avatar gets skills that make them stronger, they should be storyline upgrades, not base gameplay mechanics.

- Instead of the Avatar having supports with everyone, it should be based on a combination of your base class, starter weapon, boon, bane, and decisions you make over the course of the game. That way, the avatar, while being able to support with everyone, has a limited pool like everyone else for each specific playthrough. It'd also go a long way to making your character feel more like "you" rather than being a placeholder under the guise of being "the player."

- If marriage stays, do not make the numbers lopsided anymore for units to have children with.

Storyline

- Characters should have their own opinions and not necessarily like the main character. This is a problem with all protagonist from Ike forward. Everyone simply bows to their whims.

- Avatar can be the lead, but if they aren't, they need to not be the only competent person in the army.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Augestein

[Taka-kun]

I am not an exact fan of the Avatar system, since I tend to think of them as their own characters after all, with varying results (good with Robin, bad with Corrin). That said,

- There should be more flavor choices. Even if it doesn't affect the story, it allows the player to define their own character based on their own belief. Mass Effect is an obvious example of this done well. I like how they did it in Xenoblade X and TMS#FE as well.

- Not the "main character" as many have already said, but perhaps still an important character that manages background work while the Lord has the glory. Again, Xenoblade X did this well by focusing much on Elma for the main story, her decisions and her dilemma while the Avatar runs around helping people in various tasks in the city.

- More style customizations, like hairstyles and accessories. Fates did better than Awakening in this so it's probably on a good way.

[Lightchao42]

I think the Avatar system is fine as it is mechanically.

That being said, Corrin shouldn't have been an avatar. I like Corrin as a character and they already have a defined personality and relationships with others, but they aren't allowed to build upon the character that's already there because the developers don't want Corrin to stray from being the player's self-projection, even though they really shouldn't be a self-projection in the first place. Corrin already has a place in the world and backstory as well, being the child of Mikoto and Sumeragi(?), being kidnapped from Hoshido by Nohr at a young age, and all things considered having a rather large family. This all makes it harder to swallow that this virtual character in this virtual world is supposed to represent myself. This makes me think that Corrin was originally conceived as a non-customizable lord, and only became an avatar later in development. Plus if Corrin wasn't an avatar I wouldn't have to refer to them as 'them' and 'they' all the time.

The only reason that Corrin is an avatar, really, is so the game can use "YOU'RE THE HERO" as a selling point, even if it isn't actually true; if Corrin is 'me' because I can name and customize them (though I always use the default name and appearance anyway), then by that logic Cloud Strife is also 'me' because I can name him too (in this case, it seems, Square-Enix would be perfectly justified in claiming that 'you' are the hero of Final Fantasy VII). Being able to choose Corrin's marriage partner also doesn't make them 'me' either, since Cloud can go on a date with Aerith, Tifa, Yuffie, or even Barret, as dictated by the player's actions.

If the next game does have an avatar (and it probably will), then their role should be more like Robin's; Robin's personality is even more basic than Corrin's (basically 'tactical everyman'), and them being an avatar works better because Robin mostly just tags along as Chrom does everything plot important (until the end where Robin steals the plot). Robin also has no background or connections to the rest of the cast, unlike Corrin, so them being 'me' is somewhat more believable.

Abridged version: the fact that a preexisting character can be named or customized doesn't mean that they are or should be considered a self-insert.

[paladin21]

Maybe "talent" should be different from "regular class". That way you could get the custom unit unique class (or two versions, magical and physical) by progressing in the game and gaining the trust or respect of other classes through the game. This way, a character would climb through ranks in the military to get to the High Command, or get true respect from them. Maybe there could be as many as this six:

• Leadership:
  • Field Commander: This character would be known for inspiring his allies so that they fight better, take less damage... He'd have skills that grant various aura boosts for allies and high combat capabilities since he'd be most of the time near combat.
• Strategy:
  • Tactician: This character would be known for realising enemy moves and being able to counter them, while keeping the terrain in check. He'd have skills that negate nearby enemies aura skill effects and/or aura protection versus map gimmicks. His combat capabilities would be average giving him certain versatility.
• Insight
  • Inquisitor: Talented to see through lies and acts, he'd be able to predict people moves and act accordingly. He'd be able to negate totally or partially certain enemy skills in combat (like Vantage, Blow skills with reduced effect, reducing proc skills trigger rate) and inexploit enemy weaknesses (like increasing effective weapon might and accuracy).
• Survival:
  • Infiltrator: He'd be able to survive in hostile landscapes, making him the perfect spy. His main assets would be his high evasion and mobility and greater use of map gimmicks (like double terrain bonuses or avoiding traps and negative bonuses) and he might be able to set traps and ambushes himself (attacking if an enemy tries to go through a given square, suffering damage or being attacked by the character).
• Offense:
  • Myth: He'd be the one-man-army legends talk about. His skills would be focused on dealing damage and player phase, like AOE attacks with chance of killing (unlike Ballistician Cannon skill), great combat capabilities.
• Protection:
  • Warden: He'd be a character bound to directly protect allies, with superior Defense and Resistance and medium-high offensive capabilities to tank during enemy phase. He'd have good defensive skills (like boosted Pavise and Aegis or immunities) and protection for allies, like taking damage in Pair Up instead of the front character instead of raising the shield gauge (it would take twice as long for it to fill unless one or both of them have Dual Guardsman skill). It could lead to having a trainee as a frontman and having this character soaking damage in its stead while the trainee strikes.
• Support:
  • Master Medic: Devoted to healing and caring for his allies, he'd be the ultimate support unit, but with the drawback of being limited in his combat skills. Increased healing (curing ailments and debuffs, or using any staff/potion as an aura staff) and some buffing skills, medium combat skills (it's a support unit anyway). Another choice could be healing allies when in Tag Team instead of attacking, thus increasing the durability of the other unit.

This would lead to more important decissions when creating the character, since it would affect the story events and the overall strategy in the mid-late game, since you'd have an OP character for certain situations. This means that if you have access to the Field Commander or Myth, a direct approach would be the best strategy, while with a Survivalist, more indirect approaches should be taken.