blah the Prussian Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36809083 So just in case the horrific attack in Nice wasn't horrible enough, Turkey appears to be on the verge of civil war. Essentially, the military appears to be in control of Istanbul and parts of Ankara, the Turkish President is supposedly safe but has yet to make an appearance, fighter jets are over Ankara, and the Turkish chief of staff is a prisoner of the rebels. This is still playing out, mind you, but the geopolitical consequences, especially for Russia and the Middle East, could be cataclysmic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirie Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 (edited) I happened to catch the live thread on Reddit almost as soon as it was posted and I've been following along since then. Shit is crazy. I can't say I've ever been a fan of Erdogan, but my heart breaks for the Turkish people. They've been through such hell lately and no matter which side ends up pulling through on top of the coup, it's going to be rough going forward from here. Edited July 15, 2016 by Kirie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryhard Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 (edited) From what I know, Erdogan is a horrible leader and the military is wishing to return to a secular state. If it doesn't result in civil war this might actually be good news. People need to stay safe for now, though. Edited July 15, 2016 by Tryhard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 foreign governments are in an awkward position of whether to be pro-erdogan or pro-military Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyborgZeta Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Erdogan is an Islamist, and was a dictator in all but name. I was concerned his purges of military leadership might've killed Kemalism, but I see it's alive and well. The Turkish military has always been the guarantor of a secular state as decreed by Ataturk. They're just doing what they should've done years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 For me, it's better that Ergodan retains power. Turkey and Israel have had the best relationship ever in 70 years. Even if the state goes secular, there's no guarantee that the relationship remains stable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raguna Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 (edited) Seems things are heating up all over the world right now with all these grand scale events happening in just the summer of this year. Brexit, Pulse, the bombings especially in Medina, problems with immigrations and refugees, the attack on Nice and now the coup in Turkey and eventually we still got the 2016 US elections with its oh so promising candidates... Alongside these other news unrelated to the world issues we can find that the death of Mohammed Ali also occured. Needless to say 2016 will probably be a year no one will easily forget. I can't say I support Erdogan due to the way he is, but I'm too conflicted on the matter to say what should be happening. Edited July 15, 2016 by Raguna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moblin Major General Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 The last time a coup happened in Turkey, 600,000 Armenians were gassed and gunned down. To say they wouldn't do that in Syria is most likely false if the new regime supports Assad. Which it might. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 The last time a coup happened in Turkey, 600,000 Armenians were gassed and gunned down. To say they wouldn't do that in Syria is most likely false if the new regime supports Assad. Which it might. Hence why I want Ergodan to win. I trust the devil I know rather than the one I don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Mage Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 (edited) Seeing the military taking control like that brings bad memories to many brazilians. Something similar to this happened in Brazil years ago, and a lot of people suffered because of it. Can't say if it is as a good or a bad thing to Turkey. Edited July 15, 2016 by Water Mage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughx Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 (edited) Since Turkey is a NATO member would we get involved in that whole mess? Edited July 16, 2016 by Naughx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moblin Major General Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Could NATO article 4 be invoked by the current government of Turkey? Maybe we'll get involved it that whole mess. Damn! That would be lit, I would pay to see that play out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughx Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Well more Article 4 and Article 5. (I don't know if a military coup counts as an armed attack) http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/official_texts_17120.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Since Turkey is a NATO member would we get involved in that whole mess? Turkey has had plenty of coups before, while being a member of NATO I don't think other countries will get involved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical CC Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 (edited) You are naive if you think the coup gonna be better than Ergodan. Military holding power is never a good thing. Supporting this coup is like supporting the Confederacy, the Bolshevik, the IRA, the Tamil,..ect...ect... Rebel should be put down quick, throughout and efficiency. I dont trust any coup that rose to power by using violence and killing civilians which is exactly what the military coup is doing right now. Edited July 16, 2016 by Magical CC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughx Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 ^ Also Daesh could enter the show as a third faction while the government and the military are fighting each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryhard Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 (edited) Make no mistake, Erdogan will take Turkey to an Islamist state if the coup fails which is what is looking to happen. The military are justified in wanting to stop Turkey from falling victim to non-secularism as per the vision of Ataturk. This hasn't made either side look good, especially since the military should not have opened fire on civilians - likely mob rioting in support of Erdogan, who urged them to take to the street even though he knew it was not safe. The arrested soldiers are probably going to be tortured and executed. I have already seen pictures of some that have committed suicide rather than be arrested. Edited July 16, 2016 by Tryhard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical CC Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 (edited) Make no mistake, Erdogan will take Turkey to an Islamist state if the coup fails which is what is looking to happen. The military are justified in wanting to stop Turkey from falling victim to non-secularism as per the vision of Ataturk. This hasn't made either side look good, especially since the military should not have opened fire on civilians - likely mob rioting in support of Erdogan, who urged them to take to the street even though he knew it was not safe. The arrested soldiers are probably going to be tortured and executed. I have already seen pictures of some that have committed suicide rather than be arrested. Make no mistake, the coup may pull Turket to an Islamist state as well. Syria rebels also spoke about freedom and justice and where they are now but in rank of ISIS? A president "urge", not force, his people to stand up against the unjust and the filthy betrayals, why do you think it's wrong to stand for justice and freedom? How is it bad compared to when America drafted its people to Vietnam war? You are naive to believe in the words of the rebel. Honestly, Stalin's speeches were more moving and convincing than this. The arrested rebels should be totally tortured and executed, it's the universal punishment for betrayer such as them. If Edward Snowden is chased around by US and has to hide in Russia, then there's no reason why these rebels should be treated any better now they have been captured. I have already seen some propaganda pictures made by both sides and a guy who is tricked by the media again. Everyone can speech humane, justice, freedom and equality. Their words mean nothing. It's their action that decided everything. The guys did this coup are not the same guys from the previous coups. May be the captured rebels committed suicide because he realized his bad action and wanted to atone for his crime by taking his own life. You can never guess what is happening in a picture without the whole context informed by more than one source. After, for short, anything can happen. These guys may be right, may be wrong or neither. Calm down please. Edited July 16, 2016 by Magical CC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyborgZeta Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Pretty much everything Tryhard said. Apparently, the entire military wasn't behind this; but this was probably Turkey's last chance to return to non-secularism as Ataturk wanted. Erdogan will further consolidate power, and will likely execute everyone who participated in the coup (and anyone suspected of supporting it). Turkey will go down the path of becoming an Islamist state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moblin Major General Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Turkey is very limited in how they could respond. They have no death penalty, and torture would strain relations with NATO, because traitors have a right to trial, unlike terrorists, who can be tortured, imprisoned, and even executed without trial. The suicides stem from Turkish prisons be at or above the same level of brutality expected from a supermax like Pelican Bay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Turkey is very limited in how they could respond. They have no death penalty, and torture would strain relations with NATO, because traitors have a right to trial, unlike terrorists, who can be tortured, imprisoned, and even executed without trial. The suicides stem from Turkish prisons be at or above the same level of brutality expected from a supermax like Pelican Bay. Who decides the difference between terrorist and traitor? Because if Erdogan wins, I wouldn't put it past him to label those involved with the coup as terrorists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterIceTeaPeach Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 The worst part besides the losses by the coup attempt is that Erdogan will strengthen his power even more by weaken the military. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah the Prussian Posted July 16, 2016 Author Share Posted July 16, 2016 I don't think it's clear cut yet that Erdogan will win. He is, after all, currently seeking asylum in Germany. He denounced the coup over FACETIME, ffs. These are not the actions of a man in control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Didn't Germany AND the United Kingdom basically tell Erdogan to get bent, so he had to return to Turkey? Or did something change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah the Prussian Posted July 16, 2016 Author Share Posted July 16, 2016 Okay, so it looks like things are winding down. I agree that Erdogan will use this as an excuse to clamp down further. I'm not too big on Kemalism myself TBH; it's far too nationalistic and Republican for my liking. Still, it's better than Erdogan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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