Coup in Turkey

[Hero]

Well, it appears the coup is being announced as unsuccessful across all media outlets. It seems Erdoğan will remain president of Turkey until his natural death, unless someone else can make a better show at taking his seat by force of arms, and for now that seems a long shot. Get ready for a new round of purges!

Hence why I want Ergodan to win. I trust the devil I know rather than the one I don't.

There is a danger that a new regime might cuddle up to Iran, but Erdoğan is going down eventually. Wouldn't you rather it be by the hands of the army rather than some cult or other unknown actor? At least they are somewhat bound by tradition and the constraints of reality.

Edited July 16, 2016 by Hero

[Moblin Major General]

Did the house of Osman play a role in this? I doubt it, considering they willfully forswore the throne upon return, not to mention one of them said democracy works in Turkey.

[blah the Prussian]

Did the house of Osman play a role in this? I doubt it, considering they willfully forswore the throne upon return, not to mention one of them said democracy works in Turkey.

Oh, I wish they did. No, this was the actions of some military officers.

[Life]

NATO is backing Erdogan.

Wow. The illusion of democracy is more important than a possibly more secular country.

I'm OK with this anyway.

[Magical CC]

There is a danger that a new regime might cuddle up to Iran, but Erdoğan is going down eventually. Wouldn't you rather it be by the hands of the army rather than some cult or other unknown actor? At least they are somewhat bound by tradition and the constraints of reality.

Trying to pull a coup with a small fraction of army? I laugh at their "constraints of reality". The fact that this coup failed show they are not up for the job and are not reliable. This coup reminds me about the 1936 accident when a small band of young Japanese officers tried to pull a coup against the government with just one thousand troops or so. They also committed suicide when they realized they failed.

Edited July 23, 2016 by Magical CC

[Tryhard]

Make no mistake, the coup may pull Turket to an Islamist state as well. Syria rebels also spoke about freedom and justice and where they are now but in rank of ISIS? A president "urge", not force, his people to stand up against the unjust and the filthy betrayals, why do you think it's wrong to stand for justice and freedom? How is it bad compared to when America drafted its people to Vietnam war? You are naive to believe in the words of the rebel. Honestly, Stalin's speeches were more moving and convincing than this. The arrested rebels should be totally tortured and executed, it's the universal punishment for betrayer such as them. If Edward Snowden is chased around by US and has to hide in Russia, then there's no reason why these rebels should be treated any better now they have been captured. I have already seen some propaganda pictures made by both sides and a guy who is tricked by the media again.

Everyone can speech humane, justice, freedom and equality. Their words mean nothing. It's their action that decided everything. The guys did this coup are not the same guys from the previous coups. May be the captured rebels committed suicide because he realized his bad action and wanted to atone for his crime by taking his own life. You can never guess what is happening in a picture without the whole context informed by more than one source.

After, for short, anything can happen. These guys may be right, may be wrong or neither. Calm down please.

I want to hear your opinion on this. You believe they should be tortured and raped?

https://www.rt.com/news/353032-turkish-authorities-torture-detained/

Erdogan has pretty much been making bold moves, purges, etc. that signify a transition to facism, do you support that?

http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20160724/1043565965/erdogan-turkey-coup-purge-executions.html

Edited July 26, 2016 by Tryhard

[Tryhard]

edit: doublepost

Edited July 26, 2016 by Tryhard

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

yikes that's pretty horrifying, i mean i heard the guy was bad news, but this is another level.

[Magical CC]

I want to hear your opinion on this. You believe they should be tortured and raped?

https://www.rt.com/news/353032-turkish-authorities-torture-detained/

Erdogan has pretty much been making bold moves, purges, etc. that signify a transition to facism, do you support that?

http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20160724/1043565965/erdogan-turkey-coup-purge-executions.html

Yes, of course. Betrayers, traitors and rebels should be deal with as cruel as possible to make a point for the others. I dont support facism or Erdogan, where did you read you it? But purging people after a rebel is of course a right think to do, I dont see any problem with that. The French purged those who cooperated with the Nazi is just one amongst many examples. Wrong or right morally doesnt matter because I know that none of you know what actually happened in Turkey, what is the real purpose of the rebels and what might happen if they succeed so please dont talk about it being wrong or right. You people are just being led around by the media. Certainly nobody could have guess that the nice, quiet, radical Muslim neighbor was actually a terrorist until he did it.

For short, calm down. It's not like you can do anything about it but cry on internet so stop being so dramatic about it.

Edited July 28, 2016 by Magical CC

[Time the Crestfallen]

Yes, of course. Betrayers, traitors and rebels should be deal with as cruel as possible to make a point for the others. I dont support facism or Erdogan, where did you read you it? But purging people after a rebel is of course a right think to do, I dont see any problem with that. The French purged those who cooperated with the Nazi is just one amongst many examples. Wrong or right morally doesnt matter because I know that none of you know what actually happened in Turkey, what is the real purpose of the rebels and what might happen if they succeed so please dont talk about it being wrong or right. You people are just being led around by the media. Certainly nobody could have guess that the nice, quiet, radical Muslim neighbor was actually a terrorist until he did it.

For short, calm down. It's not like you can do anything about it but cry on internet so stop being so dramatic about it.

You don't support facism, but see nothing wrong with torturing and raping dissidents?

[Magical CC]

You don't support facism, but see nothing wrong with torturing and raping dissidents?

Considering that everyone, included America, do it, I see nothing wrong with it. Honestly, you can also say that I support monarchy for the same reason. Wait, dont tell me you really think torturing and raping are tied with facism only?

Edited July 28, 2016 by Magical CC

[blah the Prussian]

Considering that everyone, included America, do it, I see nothing wrong with it. Honestly, you can also say that I support monarchy for the same reason. Wait, dont tell me you really think torturing and raping are tied with facism only?

Hey, don't throw us Monarchist's in with you.

[Time the Crestfallen]

Considering that everyone, included America, do it, I see nothing wrong with it. Honestly, you can also say that I support monarchy for the same reason. Wait, dont tell me you really think torturing and raping are tied with facism only?

I believe the saying is 'two wrongs don't make a right'. Just because other nations do it doesn't make this any less abhorrent.

Freedom from torture and inhumane/derogatory treatment are covered by the European Convention on Human Rights as well as the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (Turkey is covered by the former and signed the latter and I'd say that regardless of who the perpetrator is, human rights abuse is an indicator (but not a guarantee) of facism. Besides, considering that Erdogan's party has a history of heavy media censorship, suspected electoral fraud and the crackdown against academics over a petition, I'd say that the facism comparisons aren't entirely unwarranted.

http://www.universityworldnews.com/article.php?story=20160115184937503

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-internet-idUSKBN0H70N920140912

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/1863-turkish-journalists-fired-during-akp-rule-opposition-report-says.aspx?pageID=238&nID=73547&NewsCatID=339

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jun/09/turkey-mainstream-media-penguins-protests

http://www.dailynews.com/general-news/20140811/even-without-any-voting-fraud-turkeys-elections-arent-a-fair-fight

Edited July 28, 2016 by Phillius

[Phoenix Wright]

Yes, of course. Betrayers, traitors and rebels should be deal with as cruel as possible to make a point for the others. I dont support facism or Erdogan, where did you read you it? But purging people after a rebel is of course a right think to do, I dont see any problem with that.

fucking what

[Moblin Major General]

But purging people after a rebel is of course a right think to do, I dont see any problem with that.

I do. I take it you aren't from the United States, because if you are, that's very much against what the US is about. After our long, bloody, and highly publicized civil war, Lincoln, and by extension Johnson, went out of their way to forgive and excuse the states in revolt, and other than the skirmishes during occupation of most southern states, there wasn't much issue afterward(read:No serious consideration of a second revolt). It was a failed rebellion, but the only postwar purge was a group of people in a tavern that made a martyr of the wrong POTUS. Purges are common, but never are they right, with most leading to larger movements that can ruin entire regions, like the February Revolution.

[Tryhard]

Freedom from torture and inhumane/derogatory treatment are covered by the European Convention on Human Rights as well as the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (Turkey is covered by the former and signed the latter and I'd say that regardless of who the perpetrator is, human rights abuse is an indicator (but not a guarantee) of facism. Besides, considering that Erdogan's party has a history of heavy media censorship, suspected electoral fraud and the crackdown against academics over a petition, I'd say that the facism comparisons aren't entirely unwarranted.

They left the European Convention on Human Rights.

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/756286561331863557?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

Fascism is often an exaggeration, but in this case I don't see how it could be construed as anything different.

Wrong or right morally doesnt matter because I know that none of you know what actually happened in Turkey

But purging people after a rebel is of course a right think to do, I dont see any problem with that.

Alright man.

[Moblin Major General]

They left the European Convention on Human Rights.

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/756286561331863557?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

Fascism is often an exaggeration, but in this case I don't see how it could be construed as anything different.

The EU needs to seriously consider it's plan of action, because if I were the EU, I would consider kicking them from every major forum, if not the EU itself. Walking out of an international agreement tends to lead to... conflict. If you get my reasoning.

[Tryhard]

The EU needs to seriously consider it's plan of action, because if I were the EU, I would consider kicking them from every major forum, if not the EU itself. Walking out of an international agreement tends to lead to... conflict. If you get my reasoning.

Turkey is not in the EU. In fact, they have been told that because of these decisions to forget about their chances of joining the EU.

They are in the Council of Europe, which is different and what the European Court of Human Rights is from.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Court_of_Human_Rights

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_the_Council_of_Europe

Edited July 28, 2016 by Tryhard

[Moblin Major General]

Turkey is not in the EU. In fact, they have been told that because of these decisions to forget about their chances of joining the EU.

They are in the Council of Europe, which is different and what the European Court of Human Rights is from.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Court_of_Human_Rights

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_the_Council_of_Europe

My point still stands about Europe better sanction them before they decide to invade somewhere close, like Greece.

[Raven]

Turkey were on track to join the European Union.

If Turkey still manage to get into the EU after their leader's recent actions, then I'll be the first to say thank fuck the UK got out. Bad apples and all that.

Despite all the shit they're pulling right now with regards to the treatment of their prisoners, I'm surprised Germany's still offering them a rope by telling them "reinstate the death penalty and no EU membership for you." I'd have just flat out told them to fuck off already.

[Tryhard]

Sure, I agree with that part. Though I'm not entirely sure what they can do.

[Nobody]

My point still stands about Europe better sanction them before they decide to invade somewhere close, like Greece.

Turkey would never invade Greece. Erdogan is authoritarian, a terrible ruler and borderline fascist, but he's not an idiot (otherwise this coup would have succeeded). Invading Greece, a fellow member of NATO and also a member of the EU would be the most stupid move he could ever do, and would have terrible consequences on Turkey's economy and foreign relations. Why would he even do it?

Edited July 28, 2016 by Nobody

[Life]

Erdogan wouldn't push east either, even considering that Lebanon is a fragment of what it used to be.

The last thing that Erdogan would want is a bunch of Arabs under Turkish rule when Turkey and Arabs have a VERY rocky relationship before considering Hezbollah and ISIS.

[Magical CC]

Hey, don't throw us Monarchist's in with you.

Hey, Ming, Ottoman, France, Russia, Britain, Spain monarchy are known for it. You are not the real Monarchist if you dont consider purging and torturing a part of your government. I bet that you also dont support other activities of monarchy such as pirating, kidnapping and slaving. I think you are not a pure monarchist but a pro-constitutional monarchist. Do I have to remind you that soft rulers like Alexander II didnt usually end well while strong, cruel and competent rulers such as Alexander III fared much better.

I do. I take it you aren't from the United States, because if you are, that's very much against what the US is about. After our long, bloody, and highly publicized civil war, Lincoln, and by extension Johnson, went out of their way to forgive and excuse the states in revolt, and other than the skirmishes during occupation of most southern states, there wasn't much issue afterward(read:No serious consideration of a second revolt). It was a failed rebellion, but the only postwar purge was a group of people in a tavern that made a martyr of the wrong POTUS. Purges are common, but never are they right, with most leading to larger movements that can ruin entire regions, like the February Revolution.

Eh, who talk anything about American civil war? But if you wanna talk about it then it's fine too. Explain what the 1862 Dakota incident is about for me please? Sure, the February Revolution was a bad deal but purging and torturing worked for the Bolshevik and later, Stalin. So why not? And I am sure nobody call Stalin a facist.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Magical CC

[blah the Prussian]

Hey, Ming, Ottoman, France, Russia, Britain, Spain monarchy are known for it. You are not the real Monarchist if you dont consider purging and torturing a part of your government. I bet that you also dont support other activities of monarchy such as pirating, kidnapping and slaving. I think you are not a pure monarchist but a pro-constitutional monarchist. Do I have to remind you that soft rulers like Alexander II didnt usually end well while strong, cruel and competent rulers such as Alexander III fared much better.

Eh, who talk anything about American civil war? But if you wanna talk about it then it's fine too. Explain what the 1862 Dakota incident is about for me please? Sure, the February Revolution was a bad deal but purging and torturing worked for the Bolshevik and later, Stalin. So why not? And I am sure nobody call Stalin a facist.

1. I can be whatever kind of monarchist I want, thank you very much. I am not ashamed of being a constitutionalist. Alexander III, by the way, was unsuccessful, laying the groundwork for the Bolshevik Revolution by making a system that needed a leader as strong as himself to function.

2. Actually, Stalinism shared numerous traits with Naziism. Stalin engaged in many policies similar to the Nazis, such as antisemetism, genocide against minorities, and nationalism, especially later in his life. There were definitely more things similar than different about Naziism and Stalinism.