Curious Counter and Countermagic

[DragonFlames]

Hey, guys!

I've been playing through Revelations again and got both Counter and Countermagic on my Avatar. I got to the boss without too many problems (Hana be praised) and placed my Avatar directly in front of her. She attacked my Avatar magically for 20 damage, triggering Countermagic, which suddenly did 40 in return, killing her.

My question is: Do Countermagic and Counter stack? Or was it some kind of glitch?

[VincentASM]

I never thought about it, but in your situation, it does seem like the two skills stacked.

For some reason, I keep forgetting Counter also triggers for magic at 1 range.

[paladin21]

They stack, so you should try it with Azama and Hints. Countermagic also works with magical weapons, so it would be a great asset for him to protect himself against levin swords and bolt naginatas and axes some enemies have.

[DragonFlames]

I never thought about it, but in your situation, it does seem like the two skills stacked.

For some reason, I keep forgetting Counter also triggers for magic at 1 range.

These skills seem even more OP now, especially on harder difficulties. I need to get them on more characters.

Off topic: Do you know when/if Trails of Cold Steel 2 comes out in Europe? I loved the first game and would like to play its sequel.

And your Profile pic is Alfin, right?

They stack, so you should try it with Azama and Hints. Countermagic also works with magical weapons, so it would be a great asset for him to protect himself against levin swords and bolt naginatas and axes some enemies have.

Azama is brutal enough with his Personal Skill, but combine that with the other two... holy hell. If you can keep him healed up enough, you could basically floor entire maps without attacking once...

Edited July 20, 2016 by DragonFlames

[Augestein]

They stack. Ran around with Renewal, Counter, CounterMagic Corrin with bows when I played. It was awesome.

[Sieghart]

Range weapons like bow and shuriken doesnt activate counter right?

[twistedxgrace]

Range weapons like bow and shuriken doesnt activate counter right?

I don't think so.

The fact that Counter and Countermagic are two different skills now really confuses me.

[Augestein]

Range weapons like bow and shuriken doesnt activate counter right?

1 range Shuriken will activate counter. If you have that skill that allows you to attack from 1 range with a bow (Shining Bow), it will.

The fact that Counter and Countermagic are two different skills now really confuses me.

Counter = deal damage back on Enemy Phase when hit by an attack from 1 range (ie, an adjacent enemy). It doesn't matter what it is, you will always do damage back.

Counter Magic = deal damage back on Enemy Phase when hit by magic. The range doesn't matter, the only requirement is that you get hit by magic.

Hana took both Counter and Counter Magic because she probably attacked from 1 range with a magical sword. This meant that the damage was magically in nature so Counter Magic activated, but since she attacked from 1 range, Counter activated now.

The confusion is that people seem to assume that Counter deals damage back only on physical attacks.

Edited July 20, 2016 by Augestein

[Sieghart]

1 range Shuriken will activate counter. If you have that skill that allows you to attack from 1 range with a bow (Shining Bow), it will.

Counter = deal damage back on Enemy Phase when hit by an attack from 1 range (ie, an adjacent enemy). It doesn't matter what it is, you will always do damage back.

Counter Magic = deal damage back on Enemy Phase when hit by magic. The range doesn't matter, the only requirement is that you get hit by magic.

Hana took both Counter and Counter Magic because she probably attacked from 1 range with a magical sword. This meant that the damage was magically in nature so Counter Magic activated, but since she attacked from 1 range, Counter Magic activated now.

The confusion is that people seem to assume that Counter deals damage back only on physical attacks.

So magic counter will deal damager to the user who use 2 range magic weapons right?

Also i doubt that a master ninja or bow user will attack 1 range knowing that you have counter

Edited July 20, 2016 by Sieghart

[Shadow Mir]

These skills seem even more OP now, especially on harder difficulties. I need to get them on more characters.

If you think they're OP here, I raise you Awakening, where Counter was only good for the enemy.

So magic counter will deal damager to the user who use 2 range magic weapons right?

Yep.

[Augestein]

So magic counter will deal damager to the user who use 2 range magic weapons right?

Also i doubt that a master ninja or bow user will attack 1 range knowing that you have counter

Yes. If you use a magical weapon on someone with Counter and Countermagic, you will eat CM.

It can happen. If you have a situation where the unit can't attack from two range, they might.

If you think they're OP here, I raise you Awakening, where Counter was only good for the enemy.

This. So annoying.

Edited July 20, 2016 by Augestein

[MeddlingMage]

If someone attacks with a tome or a scroll, a magical Shuriken, or any other Magical weapon, it will trigger Countermagic even if it is a range 2 attack. And the attack should trigger both Counter and Countermagic if they are right next you.

My Hana, in my current run of Birthright, has been destroying everyone with those 2 skills when they can actually hit her.

[17thSeraph]

So magic counter will deal damager to the user who use 2 range magic weapons right?

not quite: it will reflect ALL magical damage, range doesn't matter for Countermagic.

Edited July 21, 2016 by 17thSeraph

[Aggro Incarnate]

Summary

• Counter activates against adjacent damage.
• Countermagic activates against magical damage.
• Counter and Countermagic stack when adjacent magical damage is dealt.

[Mira Vermilion]

So ... does it activate if you dodge the attack?

A lot of ppl recommend those skills on dodge tanks (like Selkie???).

[17thSeraph]

It reflects the damge you get, not the one you could get. So: NO.

On dodgetanks it is more like: you won't hit me, but if you hit me you will suffer (since dodgetanks aren't known for high defensive capabilities)

Edited July 21, 2016 by 17thSeraph

[VincentASM]

These skills seem even more OP now, especially on harder difficulties. I need to get them on more characters.

Off topic: Do you know when/if Trails of Cold Steel 2 comes out in Europe? I loved the first game and would like to play its sequel.

And your Profile pic is Alfin, right?

There isn't an exact release date, just "Fall 2016". Yup!

Huh, I'm tempted to get both skills on more characters as well. Is that why some people were asking for both Counter and Countermagic in the European skill request thread?

Sounds great for trolling in My Castle as well, if I ever decide to camp on the throne XD

[DragonFlames]

If someone attacks with a tome or a scroll, a magical Shuriken, or any other Magical weapon, it will trigger Countermagic even if it is a range 2 attack. And the attack should trigger both Counter and Countermagic if they are right next you.

My Hana, in my current run of Birthright, has been destroying everyone with those 2 skills when they can actually hit her.

Lucky. I wish I had Counter on Hana. Combine that with a Venge Katana and watch things die. I think I should look to the skill request thread.

@Vincent: If it really does release this Fall, I would be one happy person.

Edited July 21, 2016 by DragonFlames

[paladin21]

If you think they're OP here, I raise you Awakening, where Counter was only good for the enemy.

Right, I hated those Counter-Kamikaze warriors.

[DragonFlames]

Right, I hated those Counter-Kamikaze warriors.

Oh yeah, those were annoying on Priam's Paralogue.

Linus on Rogues and Redeemers 3 was pretty annoying as well.

[MeddlingMage]

Lucky. I wish I had Counter on Hana. Combine that with a Venge Katana and watch things die. I think I should look to the skill request thread.

@Vincent: If it really does release this Fall, I would be one happy person.

I will let you know when I have both of them on her and you can come get her.

[DragonFlames]

I will let you know when I have both of them on her and you can come get her.

That would be awesome! Thank you!

[MeddlingMage]

No problem. She's one of my main units this time around, so she will always be up.

[17thSeraph]

Just thougth about it, Counter and Countermagic should also should also stack with the personal skills of Flora, Hinata and Kagero and Nyx. Note that Counter does not work with Icy Blood (First requires enemy standing rigth beside you and second requires that he doesn't stand besides you). And activating all three skills skills is rare for Hinata and Kagero since they have to be attaced at range one from a Bolt Naginata/Axe, Flame Shuriken etc.

The only one who could use this to is full extend is Nyx, since she just need an enemy standing besides her and attacking her with magic to give him hell^^

[Renall]

In theory, if someone attacks a Counter/Countermagic Nyx with magic at 1 range, she does 2.5x the damage she's taken back, and even if they attack at 2 range she does 1.5x back.

The question now is: What counts as "damage dealt" for the purposes of reflection when Miracle comes into play? Say a Miracle Azama, unarmed and attacked by a magic weapon at 1 range with Counter/Countermagic/Divine Retribution. If the weapon crits for triple digit damage, but then he's saved by Miracle or Kaze's personal, does he do the full critical damage *2.5, or does he do his Max HP - 1? Assuming the latter case, a General Azama with HP+5 (easily obtained on Rev by buddying Arthur and marrying Effie) can do ~172 damage back to an attacker, kills any unit that does 30 1 range magical damage to him, and kills any unit that does at least 50 melee damage to him. Assuming the former case... his potential damage is astronomical, limited only by how hard you could hit him.