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Returning fan favorites from the previous game, a new trend?

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Actually, it's not that uncommon.

The Pegauses Sisters and Camus from the first game appear as playable characters in FE2, and they are quite popular.

Ced from FE4, appears as a playable character in FE5, and I'm pretty sure it's because of his popularity. And there's a "clone" of sorts of a FE4 character in FE5.

There's also a lot of FE1 expies in FE6.

There are other examples, but as you can see, it's not uncommon in the Fire Emblem series for a character to reappear in future games and to have expies of other characters.

But if characters return, there could more creative reasons for them to appear.

Say, for example, if FE15 is still in Fates's continent, it could be about a war in the northen part of the continent, and characters like Niles and Kaze could appear as playable characters. They could be like Matthew in Lyn's story in FE7, they would acting as spies from Nohr and Hoshido.

Akanaia and Valentia (and Judgral for that matter) are all part of the same world and Thracia 776 is an interquel between the two halves of Genealogy, so those examples are justified.

When I voice my distaste for returning characters in this context, I'm not talking about expies or characters returning in direct prequels, interquels or sequels, I'm talking about using the bullshit multiverse to have characters appear in completely different worlds.

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If I can be honest, I never felt that (T)Subaki and Hayato were just better clones of Cordelia and Rickeb: yes they share the same gimmick and class(in Hayato's case, his supports with Corrin is very similar to the one between Ricken and Robin), but, aside from that, what else they have in common?

Also, I have another question: May I ask what Siegbert takes from Chrom?

Not to be rude of course, I'm asking this because I don't see much similarities between the two and I personally feel like that Siegbert takes more inspiration from character like Marth or Elincia.

Anyway Siegbert could actually have a decent reason to be in the next game, since, in his epilogue, It's said that he traveled around the world, after the events of Conquest/ Revelation.

Again, I apologize if I seem to be rude.

Hahah, don't worry about it. I don't mind a disagreement as long as we can make it constructive and meet each other in some point. I'll tackle your questions one by one. I did say it was a very subjective topic so I can understand we'd all have our different opinions so here's my reasoning.

In Tsubaki's case, while we're still dealing with his gimmick, I'll start with appearance again in which Tsubaki looks like an oriental male version of Cordelia. Tsubaki shows a nice contrast in that he's much more open about his perfectionism yet neither can stand failure. I will admit most of Cordelia's traits just shafted over to Caeldori for self evident reasons but one can't deny the making of Cordelia was there at least in base. The one thing neither Tsubaki or Caeldori has is a love for a royal lord they serve they can't attain.

Hayato is alongside his gimmick, is also a child prodigy in magic from what we learn which is also what Ricken himself is. I also believe that both are quite prideful even discounting their height and rather pushy when wanting something done in their supports. They at times are also not taken very seriously when they want to be. Hayato doesn't have the luxury of a convo like Ricken has with Henry to make a comparison on how he views the enemy but I'd honestly feel he'd have the same reaction. Apperance wise, I also think Hayato would look like an oriental Ricken with some touch ups here and there.

I will say that I've never truly seen Marth in Siegbert in any way so can you please clarify that point? FE 11 Marth was more of a naive lord who struggled to rule the country and bring it back together while FE 3 Book 2 Marth had matured by that point and come across as wiser. Although I can see the part of Elincia in his hesitation, but she directs it more for her country while I feel he does it more due to his feelings inadequacy compared to his dad.

That brings me to Siegbert and Chrom himself. They're both princes who look up to the ruler before them (Xander and Emmeryn respectively). And despite the fact that Chrom is more gruff and Siegbert is more hesitant. They usually tend to play the straight man to their companions, and at heart they're both pretty simple people just trying to do their best by following an ideal. As for his ending where he travels, Shiro also has the same excuse as he travels in his ending but I still think the popularity poll would be the deciding factor in such a case. Thane showed me the Awakening poll and I was just amazed at how Lon'qu got skipped over when he was generally a lot more well liked by worldwide in comparison to Gaius who was more JP only since Lon'qu can definitely rock the Hoshidan aesthetic he almost pretty much has in Awakening.

Phew, wasn't expecting to make a post thing long but to clarify no one is truly an exact clone (except Asugi, Rhajat and Caeldori imo), but they share slightly too much in common to be called their own characters which is the crux of my argument. Also for anyone else, don't worry about posting against me, we're all just here to lay out our opinions or facts and I can generally see that and differentiate an honest question to a troll which none in this thread are.

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You forgot about Awakening with both Tiki (semi in her case, as it was the passage of time) and Priam, whose mere existence implies that Ike had somehow crossed over at some point

My brain shut off regarding Priam. Tiki's able to live that long so she literally has no conflicting issues with her existence.

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My brain shut off regarding Priam. Tiki's able to live that long so she literally has no conflicting issues with her existence.

Hell, the multiverse issue isn't even a problem for Tiki considering she can literally obtain God like powers if Future past is to be believed.

I just want more Tiki darn it

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Hell, the multiverse issue isn't even a problem for Tiki considering she can literally obtain God like powers if Future past is to be believed.

I just want more Tiki darn it

I don't disagree. Given that Owain and the others reference the DLC from Awakening as things that actually happened and Awakening's DLC having something of a sub-story, it wouldn't be too farfetched.

Awakening was my first FE title and Tiki actually made me feel like there was someone I could go to and ask for advice within the game itself. So given that she was far more child-like in Marth's time it's literally saying that she's matured since. I'm certain her wisdom would be very appreciative to have once more.

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I don't disagree. Given that Owain and the others reference the DLC from Awakening as things that actually happened and Awakening's DLC having something of a sub-story, it wouldn't be too farfetched.

Awakening was my first FE title and Tiki actually made me feel like there was someone I could go to and ask for advice within the game itself. So given that she was far more child-like in Marth's time it's literally saying that she's matured since. I'm certain her wisdom would be very appreciative to have once more.

Kana might very well fill this spot in a possible FE15. I would like it, IF FE15 takes place in the same world as Fates.

But yeah, I also don't really want to see returning characters because they might just get retroactively 'ruined'.

Like, since when were Owain, Severa and Inigo ever the type to suck up to somebody like that?

Severa talked to Chrom (who is effectively a king by the time you get her, while Camilla is 'only' a princess) like he was an equal, Owain didn't care much for honorifics and let's not forget that he's a prince himself (which admittedly doesn't count much in Fates' world) and Inigo wasn't exactly happy to travel with Chrom and the others in the first place.

So why are they reduced to such ass-kissers to their respective lord in Fates? It is so out of character for either of them, Severa especially.

Returning characters done right were certainly Camus (as Sirius) and Tiki, the latter of which has matured and the former was still as badass, but kept his true identity a secret (but he still didn't suck up to Marth so much).

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Hahah, don't worry about it. I don't mind a disagreement as long as we can make it constructive and meet each other in some point. I'll tackle your questions one by one. I did say it was a very subjective topic so I can understand we'd all have our different opinions so here's my reasoning.

In Tsubaki's case, while we're still dealing with his gimmick, I'll start with appearance again in which Tsubaki looks like an oriental male version of Cordelia. Tsubaki shows a nice contrast in that he's much more open about his perfectionism yet neither can stand failure. I will admit most of Cordelia's traits just shafted over to Caeldori for self evident reasons but one can't deny the making of Cordelia was there at least in base. The one thing neither Tsubaki or Caeldori has is a love for a royal lord they serve they can't attain.

Hayato is alongside his gimmick, is also a child prodigy in magic from what we learn which is also what Ricken himself is. I also believe that both are quite prideful even discounting their height and rather pushy when wanting something done in their supports. They at times are also not taken very seriously when they want to be. Hayato doesn't have the luxury of a convo like Ricken has with Henry to make a comparison on how he views the enemy but I'd honestly feel he'd have the same reaction. Apperance wise, I also think Hayato would look like an oriental Ricken with some touch ups here and there.

I will say that I've never truly seen Marth in Siegbert in any way so can you please clarify that point? FE 11 Marth was more of a naive lord who struggled to rule the country and bring it back together while FE 3 Book 2 Marth had matured by that point and come across as wiser. Although I can see the part of Elincia in his hesitation, but she directs it more for her country while I feel he does it more due to his feelings inadequacy compared to his dad.

That brings me to Siegbert and Chrom himself. They're both princes who look up to the ruler before them (Xander and Emmeryn respectively). And despite the fact that Chrom is more gruff and Siegbert is more hesitant. They usually tend to play the straight man to their companions, and at heart they're both pretty simple people just trying to do their best by following an ideal. As for his ending where he travels, Shiro also has the same excuse as he travels in his ending but I still think the popularity poll would be the deciding factor in such a case. Thane showed me the Awakening poll and I was just amazed at how Lon'qu got skipped over when he was generally a lot more well liked by worldwide in comparison to Gaius who was more JP only since Lon'qu can definitely rock the Hoshidan aesthetic he almost pretty much has in Awakening.

Phew, wasn't expecting to make a post thing long but to clarify no one is truly an exact clone (except Asugi, Rhajat and Caeldori imo), but they share slightly too much in common to be called their own characters which is the crux of my argument. Also for anyone else, don't worry about posting against me, we're all just here to lay out our opinions or facts and I can generally see that and differentiate an honest question to a troll which none in this thread are.

Hmm, I can see your points, but some of these traits are present in other FE characters, so I don't personally see them as something that a certain character takes from another. Perhaps another reason I tend to not mark these kind of similarities is because I didn't like Ricken and Cordelia(which is weird since I love Subaki and Hayato).

As for Siegbert, both he and marth tend to put their duty as Prince(s) before anything else(I admit this is present in Xander too tough) and they don't want the others to see their "weaknesses". Also, I don't know why, but the way Siegbert speaks reminds me of Marth's.

As for Elincia...well, Siegbert reminds me more of the Elincia from POR, since in that game she doesn't feel to be ready to lead a nation and she thinks that she won't meet the expectations of her.

I could be forgetting something ttough because It's been a while since I've played FE9/10/11/12

By the way, I agree that the poll will be decisive for a possible character return.

Edited by The Wyvern Rider

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I'm kind of split on this, to be quite frank.

On the one hand, I know it's kind of shoddy writing. They definitely did it because they wanted Awakening to help make Fates more appealing for those who entered with that one, while some of the Amiibos were integrated (not storywise, if I'm not mistaken) to appeal to older fans (and cram the other top pick of the Awakening children into the game). "Parallel universes" and all that sort of stuff is kind of a lazy way of writing; it's like saying "anything can happen, so this character is actually still alive since we know practically every fan loved them, so we felt forced into re-integrating them into the story". But this is how I feel about it in theory.

In practice, I actually liked how the Awakening characters were integrated (at least Owain, Severa, and Inigo; the other three were just blatant references). And I like the idea that the worlds might be tied because of the multiple Fire Emblems. The Awakening characters were given a legitimate reason to be there, and they were written with character growth in mind. You see that where Owain and Inigo once argued, now they have civil discussions and friendly games with one another. None of them are quite so puffed up about feeling inadequate, coming to terms with the idea that there are more important things than being the best at what they do. And part of me would like to see that in characters like Shiro or Oboro, where the former lets go of his competitiveness and the latter surrenders her racism, and we get to see how that plays out for them.

I think as far as the story goes as a whole, it's one of the least damaging things, considering we've got the whole "everyone's related" thing as well as the whole "everyone's fighting because of some dragon in an invisible land you can't talk about" deal. Or, you know, the whole "destroying an entire nation and killing innocent people to save said nation" thing I'm sorry, I couldn't go without trash talking CQ. But if they take it up a notch or two, it has the potential of ruining the story. It's better off staying as a mere cameo that's somewhat integrated into the story than becoming a more vital part of it. Last thing we need is all the lords and princesses of all the Fire Emblem games coming together in the next game to create the "Super Mega Fire Emblem" to defeat the "Mega Death Dragon Omnigod", complete with fusion dances and a Super Saiyan Ultra God Super Saiyan 137.

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On the one hand, I know it's kind of shoddy writing. They definitely did it because they wanted Awakening to help make Fates more appealing for those who entered with that one, while some of the Amiibos were integrated (not storywise, if I'm not mistaken) to appeal to older fans (and cram the other top pick of the Awakening children into the game). "Parallel universes" and all that sort of stuff is kind of a lazy way of writing; it's like saying "anything can happen, so this character is actually still alive since we know practically every fan loved them,

I think as far as the story goes as a whole, it's one of the least damaging things, considering we've got the whole "everyone's related" thing as well as the whole "everyone's fighting because of some dragon in an invisible land you can't talk about" deal. Or, you know, the whole "destroying an entire nation and killing innocent people to save said nation" thing I'm sorry, I couldn't go without trash talking CQ. But if they take it up a notch or two, it has the potential of ruining the story. It's better off staying as a mere cameo that's somewhat integrated into the story than becoming a more vital part of it. Last thing we need is all the lords and princesses of all the Fire Emblem games coming together in the next game to create the "Super Mega Fire Emblem" to defeat the "Mega Death Dragon Omnigod", complete with fusion dances and a Super Saiyan Ultra God Super Saiyan 137.

Come on, we all a "Fire Emblem Generations" would kick all kinds of ass

I'm personally torn on the three 2 Gen clones tbh. On I hand, I DESPISE their concept, but on the other hand, I like Rhajat and Asugi a hell of a lot more than their Awakening counterparts. It's gotten to the point where with Rhajat at least, I have trouble considering her a clone despite LITERALLY EVERYTHING saying otherwise.

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In practice, I actually liked how the Awakening characters were integrated (at least Owain, Severa, and Inigo; the other three were just blatant references). And I like the idea that the worlds might be tied because of the multiple Fire Emblems. The Awakening characters were given a legitimate reason to be there, and they were written with character growth in mind. You see that where Owain and Inigo once argued, now they have civil discussions and friendly games with one another. None of them are quite so puffed up about feeling inadequate, coming to terms with the idea that there are more important things than being the best at what they do.

I'm a big fan of the character growth of the Awakening kids; it really shows the support writers had a clear idea of what they wanted to do with them, even if I find Severa's supports dull.

That being said, I can't say I share your positive attitude towards just how they were implemented. In the main story, the only explanation is pretty much "they just appeared one night and Garon thought 'fuck it, those guys could be useful'" and that's the end of that. Then it was revealed to us that they had known about the big bad all along and failed miserably in two out of three routes, making them all look like absolute idiots.

Maybe their implementation was hurt because of the awful communications between the different writing teams, but that doesn't excuse the mess we got. While there is potential, I don't trust Intelligent Systems to handle it better next time, especially not since it's pure fan service, and they seem to think that can substitute quality writing.

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Come on, we all a "Fire Emblem Generations" would kick all kinds of ass

I'm personally torn on the three 2 Gen clones tbh. On I hand, I DESPISE their concept, but on the other hand, I like Rhajat and Asugi a hell of a lot more than their Awakening counterparts. It's gotten to the point where with Rhajat at least, I have trouble considering her a clone despite LITERALLY EVERYTHING saying otherwise.

Maybe we could get a "FE Generations" spin-off; that could satisfy our palettes without upsetting anyone.

I think I need to use Rhajat more, as all I really know about her is her supports with Corn-bread and some off C supports here and there. Aside from the whole obsession with Corrin (which, I'll admit, is explained a lot better than Tharja's obsession with Robin), I hear she's a pretty neat character. But I tend to grind at a really slow pace (mainly because I find other things to do or watch a video/stream at the same time), so it'll be a bit before I investigate her other supports.

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*Look at the SMT series and Amala Network, then looks at fan theory of how each game leads into each other. Feels a distinct sense of happiness and interest towards it.*

I don't particularly have an issue with returning characters, alternate universes or multiverses. I am of the very optimistic and admittedly naive view that every cliche of writing can be written well and enjoyably. It all comes down to execution, in my opinion.

However, the way the returning characters were written in Fates, I can only really cringe when I view it as a whole. Now, I will admit that I do like some of the returning characters: I like SOL's maturity when compared to their Awakening personalities and I do think Rhajat and even Caeldori has some supports that put them equal to or very slightly above their counterparts. But, my main problem is that the return of these characters is obvious that they are riding of the success of Awakening and, like a little child holding his mother's hand, IS was reluctant to let go of the game that stabilized and popularized their franchise.

That is something that bothers me, combined with the rather subpar writing of Fates. I liked these games but there was always a part of it that I constantly thought, "This could have been written better..." or "This is a neat concept but..." They had the utensils to have a compelling story line but they fumbled somewhere along the line and, to me, it seemed like they shoved in Awakening characters as a type of insurance. Luckily, it wasn't just the West that had something of a problem with this; the East has similar complaints to ours and I can only hope IS will take notice for the next game.

So, to answer the topic question, while I do think characters from the older games will return, I don't think it will be to the extent Fates took it. Maybe.

Edited by SaiSymbolic

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I can't say I share your positive attitude towards just how they were implemented. In the main story, the only explanation is pretty much "they just appeared one night and Garon thought 'fuck it, those guys could be useful'" and that's the end of that. Then it was revealed to us that they had known about the big bad all along and failed miserably in two out of three routes, making them all look like absolute idiots.

Maybe their implementation was hurt because of the awful communications between the different writing teams, but that doesn't excuse the mess we got. While there is potential, I don't trust Intelligent Systems to handle it better next time, especially not since it's pure fan service, and they seem to think that can substitute quality writing.

That's a fair point. Though isn't it the royal children who decide which people will be their retainers? And I'd assume that Garon conscripts just about any chum willing to fight, given that he forces tribes and towns that are unwilling to fight to do his bidding. Though I'm not sure that's much better... But maybe, at some point, the Awakening characters got to display their skills to the royals of Nohr, and were brought on because of that. But something like that really shouldn't be omitted.

I'd say for the whole "big bad" thing, maybe it's a similar situation to one Azura's in. They know about what's going on, but are powerless to do anything because they can't actually talk about Valla. But then again, it didn't seem like they put forth much effort into getting the two nations to unite, so maybe it's more that Hidden Truths was just a last minute attempt to explain why they're even there. A real shocker, I know. I only really liked the idea that they actually were given a reason to go to this other world, not the actual execution. I'm not all that big of a fan of multiverse nonsense when it's done poorly, and I already knew as soon as I saw a few supports and whatnot that it was supposed to be exactly that. It really truly is lazy writing, at least until you actually start involving the concept of the multiverse as a primary part of the story (even then, it could still be poorly executed, and is often considered murky territory).

I just am a high-end optimist as far as the media I consume is concerned, and that's just a thing particular to me; people have every right to dislike or hate something I like because everyone has a different way of looking at things. I do think it'd be nice if IS could expand the FE fanbase further by improving their writing quality, rather than diminishing it. I've had some truly awful experiences with some of the newbie fans (funny enough, none of them have been on this site), and I speak as someone who was introduced to the series with Awakening. All lower quality writing would do is bring in worse fans and drive away the more well-adjusted fans.

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That's a fair point. Though isn't it the royal children who decide which people will be their retainers? And I'd assume that Garon conscripts just about any chum willing to fight, given that he forces tribes and towns that are unwilling to fight to do his bidding. Though I'm not sure that's much better... But maybe, at some point, the Awakening characters got to display their skills to the royals of Nohr, and were brought on because of that. But something like that really shouldn't be omitted.

Feel free to correct me on this one, but in Xander and Inigo's support, Xander says Garon decided the latter was to become a royal retainer, along with the other two. Also, "conscripting just about any chum" is not the same as "a person who's supposed to have the prince and prncesses' backs"; I wouldn't exactly trust the people who teleported into the castle one night, but maybe I'm just not a very trusting person.

I'd say for the whole "big bad" thing, maybe it's a similar situation to one Azura's in. They know about what's going on, but are powerless to do anything because they can't actually talk about Valla. But then again, it didn't seem like they put forth much effort into getting the two nations to unite, so maybe it's more that Hidden Truths was just a last minute attempt to explain why they're even there. A real shocker, I know.

I won't go on a rant here, but Azura knowing everything worth knowing from day one is one of my major issues with the game, and it affects all routes and her character in particularly in a very negative way. The fact that the plot is only barely contained by a poorly explained plot contrivance is an insult to everyone who cares about a solid narrative.

This would've been slightly easier to swallow if Azura and the Awakening kids actually tried to show something was up and took a bigger role in the story, but they didn't. The Awakening kids didn't even have the decency to act mysterious about it.

Again, I realize that this is most likely because of different writing teams and godawful communication between them, but that doesn't excuse the state of the finished product that they charge quite a bit of money for.

I just am a high-end optimist as far as the media I consume is concerned, and that's just a thing particular to me; people have every right to dislike or hate something I like because everyone has a different way of looking at things. I do think it'd be nice if IS could expand the FE fanbase further by improving their writing quality, rather than diminishing it. I've had some truly awful experiences with some of the newbie fans (funny enough, none of them have been on this site), and I speak as someone who was introduced to the series with Awakening. All lower quality writing would do is bring in worse fans and drive away the more well-adjusted fans.

Horrible fans come in all shapes and sizes; quite a few number of people dislike me for my constant bitching about Fates' - and to a lesser extent Blazing Sword's - absolutely dismal plots, so I'm not distancing myself from being a part of the problem. I've personally had a far worse time with veterans than with newcomers, but I realize that there are bad eggs in both groups.

The problem is that it's hard to just randomly improve the writing quality; this WAS their attempt at trying to do so - they boasted about it in interviews and in commercials where they could've focused on the mostly great gameplay instead. They tried hiring a very busy man who had no (I think?) experience writing video games, and it fell flat on its face. Whether that's because Intelligent Systems have no quality control, didn't actually care about the plot or are just inept is anyone's guess, but the writing in Fire Emblem has never been stellar, and outsourcing it doesn't seem to cut it either.

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Come on, we all a "Fire Emblem Generations" would kick all kinds of ass

I'm personally torn on the three 2 Gen clones tbh. On I hand, I DESPISE their concept, but on the other hand, I like Rhajat and Asugi a hell of a lot more than their Awakening counterparts. It's gotten to the point where with Rhajat at least, I have trouble considering her a clone despite LITERALLY EVERYTHING saying otherwise.

I agree 100% with you.

Even though I don't agree with the reasons for them being in the game, I've come to enjoy Rhajat and Asugi actually more than their Awakening versions. Heck, I even find Caeldori more interesting than Cordelia.

Rhajat seems to fix almost every issue I had with Tharja. Even her crush on the Avatar is handled a lot better.

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The problem is that it's hard to just randomly improve the writing quality; this WAS their attempt at trying to do so - they boasted about it in interviews and in commercials where they could've focused on the mostly great gameplay instead. They tried hiring a very busy man who had no (I think?) experience writing video games, and it fell flat on its face. Whether that's because Intelligent Systems have no quality control, didn't actually care about the plot or are just inept is anyone's guess, but the writing in Fire Emblem has never been stellar, and outsourcing it doesn't seem to cut it either.

I think it might be more that they need to think long and hard about the EXECUTION of their stories rather than just trying to find a good writer.

Path of Radiance and The Sacred Stones have two of my favorite stories in the series and both of them boil down to very simplistic concepts that were executed well. From what I hear, it sounds like IS just hired a famous writer and then took his story and did whatever they wanted with it.

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*Look at the SMT series and Amala Network, then looks at fan theory of how each game leads into each other. Feels a distinct sense of happiness and interest towards it.*

I don't particularly have an issue with returning characters, alternate universes or multiverses. I am of the very optimistic and admittedly naive view that every cliche of writing can be written well and enjoyably. It all comes down to execution, in my opinion.

However, the way the returning characters were written in Fates, I can only really cringe when I view it as a whole. Now, I will admit that I do like some of the returning characters: I like SOL's maturity when compared to their Awakening personalities and I do think Rhajat and even Caeldori has some supports that put them equal to or very slightly above their counterparts. But, my main problem is that the return of these characters is obvious that they are riding of the success of Awakening and, like a little child holding his mother's hand, IS was reluctant to let go of the game that stabilized and popularized their franchise.

Usually we get two games for each setting though. Fates mostly leaving the Awakening world behind aside from a couple of characters is actually a pretty big leap of confidence. What makes it stand out in this case was the lack of explanation in the main game.

I think it might be more that they need to think long and hard about the EXECUTION of their stories rather than just trying to find a good writer.

I think in large part there was just some incompatibility between the style of the writer they got and what's expected out of a FE storyline. The writer they got is most famous for two episodic series, and has written several others like that. He has some with a more continuous structure too, but they're not his famous works that he's known for. When you look at some of the complaints about the story, aside from the plot devices, the most common ones are about how the chapters feel too standalone, without the plot tying all the locations and events strongly, which is fairly standard for episodic works.

Edited by NeonZ

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I think in large part there was just some incompatibility between the style of the writer they got and what's expected out of a FE storyline. The writer they got is most famous for two episodic series, and has written several others like that. He has some with a more continuous structure too, but they're not his famous works that he's known for. When you look at some of the complaints about the story, aside from the plot devices, the most common ones are about how the chapters feel too standalone, without the plot tying all the locations and events strongly, which is fairly standard for episodic works.

Doesn't help that the dude only really submitted a first draft, and no one thought to tell IS First Drafts aren't usually good stories without heavy refining. I'll be honest, if I was to look at Fates' narrative as a rough draft, it's feels like a good starting point for a much better revision, but what we got was that decent rough draft accepted as the final product

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Horrible fans come in all shapes and sizes; quite a few number of people dislike me for my constant bitching about Fates' - and to a lesser extent Blazing Sword's - absolutely dismal plots, so I'm not distancing myself from being a part of the problem. I've personally had a far worse time with veterans than with newcomers, but I realize that there are bad eggs in both groups.

You are by far one of the most decent "bad fans" I've met, to be quite frank; at least, you direct your complaints towards the game and not to the people you have disagreements with, it seems. Most of the bad fans I refer to are the kinds who, when you make a remark that is in any way disagreeable, they turn to insulting you and telling you to kill yourself or some other unnecessarily atrocious comment. And there are bad veterans, but usually their problem is several flavors and shades of elitism, which I have grown accustomed to (although it's still really stupid). Sometimes they'll devolve into insults and suicide demands, but a lot of FE fans, I find, aren't like that; they only think they're more intelligent than the "scrubs" who like/started with Awakening and Fates. All you have is an opinion about a medium that you're vocal about, which is something a lot of people have. If people hate you for not liking the stuff they like, then it's too bad they can't learn to have disagreements or accept that people have different tastes.

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You are by far one of the most decent "bad fans" I've met, to be quite frank; at least, you direct your complaints towards the game and not to the people you have disagreements with, it seems. Most of the bad fans I refer to are the kinds who, when you make a remark that is in any way disagreeable, they turn to insulting you and telling you to kill yourself or some other unnecessarily atrocious comment. And there are bad veterans, but usually their problem is several flavors and shades of elitism, which I have grown accustomed to (although it's still really stupid). Sometimes they'll devolve into insults and suicide demands, but a lot of FE fans, I find, aren't like that; they only think they're more intelligent than the "scrubs" who like/started with Awakening and Fates. All you have is an opinion about a medium that you're vocal about, which is something a lot of people have. If people hate you for not liking the stuff they like, then it's too bad they can't learn to have disagreements or accept that people have different tastes.

Oh Gods, I met a lot of elitists like that and they made me very depressed sometimes and even unable to enjoy the newer FE, making me questioning my own tastes too

And this still happens when I see a very VERY negative opinion of a game I like in general.

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Oh Gods, I met a lot of elitists like that and they made me very depressed sometimes and even unable to enjoy the newer FE, making me questioning my own tastes too

And this still happens when I see a very VERY negative opinion of a game I like in general.

I say don't listen to people like that. Like what you like.

Heck, if I just went with other's people's opinions when it comes to other franchises, I would have missed out on some that would become favorites for me. Star Fox Adventures, Kirby's Epic Yarn. The fanbases for both of those games would tell you to stay away from them, but I'm glad that I did because they're some of my favorites on the GCN and Wii.

So yeah, don't listen to the elitists. :)

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Oh Gods, I met a lot of elitists like that and they made me very depressed sometimes and even unable to enjoy the newer FE, making me questioning my own tastes too

And this still happens when I see a very VERY negative opinion of a game I like in general.

That happens to me, too. Quite frequently. Too frequently.

Then, I usually tell them to piss off because my opinions and tastes are my own and what I like and what I do is of no one else's concern, unless it directly impacts them. I can like the shittest game in the entire existence of the universe and I should not have to feel bad about it—and neither should you have to feel bad about what you like or enjoy.

So, yeah, don't feel bad.

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On the topic at hand: I really hope not. As much as I liked some of the children characters and I liked seeing Inigo and Severa again, this trend doesn't need to repeat itself. The only way it would be excusable is if FE15 explicitly took place in the same world but on a different continent or a different time period than Fates, since it worked just fine for Gaiden and the Jugdral games, and even then they'd have to execute it flawlessly.

I think in large part there was just some incompatibility between the style of the writer they got and what's expected out of a FE storyline. The writer they got is most famous for two episodic series, and has written several others like that. He has some with a more continuous structure too, but they're not his famous works that he's known for. When you look at some of the complaints about the story, aside from the plot devices, the most common ones are about how the chapters feel too standalone, without the plot tying all the locations and events strongly, which is fairly standard for episodic works.

As someone who's actually read some of his other works, he has no problem writing very long works with continuous structures, and judging a writer solely by their most famous works usually is a bad benchmark of what they're capable of. But then again, I also felt like the problem was that a ton of chapters in all three routes felt more like filler chapters than anything, meant to get the characters from plot point A to plot point B with no actual plot relevance to them. People marveled that he ended up writing 1500 pages for all three routes (minus supports) in his first draft, but 500 for each route isn't actually that long for a game script, especially for one that's usually as text-heavy as Fire Emblem or any other JRPG. The fact that said draft was, according to most reports, at least partially unfinished to the point that characters were left unnamed also doesn't help.

I kind of wish IntSys would have let the word count leaked, because I'd be interesting in comparing Fates' to some other, much longer games.

I think it might be more that they need to think long and hard about the EXECUTION of their stories rather than just trying to find a good writer.

Pretty much this. Even the dumbest of cliches or the silliest-sounding ideas can be enjoyable or even great if it's well-executed. I honestly don't think, a few minor things aside, that any of the major plot points in Fates were bad ideas on their own. They were just executed horribly.

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As someone who's actually read some of his other works, he has no problem writing very long works with continuous structures, and judging a writer solely by their most famous works usually is a bad benchmark of what they're capable of. But then again, I also felt like the problem was that a ton of chapters in all three routes felt more like filler chapters than anything, meant to get the characters from plot point A to plot point B with no actual plot relevance to them. People marveled that he ended up writing 1500 pages for all three routes (minus supports) in his first draft, but 500 for each route isn't actually that long for a game script, especially for one that's usually as text-heavy as Fire Emblem or any other JRPG. The fact that said draft was, according to most reports, at least partially unfinished to the point that characters were left unnamed also doesn't help.

He has been quoted as recommending to IS' team a "simple" story in order to reach a larger audience though, so he probably was attempting to make this closer in style to his more mainstream work, which means episodic. The problem often pointed out of chapters without plot relevance to them would fit very well if he was aiming at an episodic structure.

Edited by NeonZ

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