Rend Heaven vs. Luna vs. Dragon Fang

[SSJDennis]

Which one has the most damaging potential?

Rend Heaven will trigger most of the time. But what does it add? If for example, my Sniper attacks a Sage. Will it increase damage according to half the strength of the Sage? Or will it add damage according to half his magic? Who's weapon are we talking about? What about mixed classes? Or against an enemy with only a Staff?

Luna was key in Awakening. Now with lower caps, it might be weaker. Also doesn't add damage, but makes your attacks do more damage. Probably best used against high defense or high resistance enemies?

Dragon Fang, lowest trigger rate. But still seems worthwhile. 50% of attack power as extra damage, can be broken with maxed out strength and/or magic.

What do you think is the best?

Myself, no fan of Astra. Do like Sol, but doesn't add to damage. Vengeance is to tricky, but probably MUCH stronger damage wise, if used correctly.

Rend Heaven also seems to be the Hosido counterpart of Luna.

[TheTuckingFypo]

I'd say Dragon Fang has the most damage output, provided that it's the unit's damage output x 1.5 essentially. However, as you mentioned, its does have the lowest trigger rate, and it is Avatar + Kana + Avatar's other child (unless you get it from other children in My Castle) exclusive.

Rend Heaven adds the enemy's Str/Mag stat to the damage, so it'd look like this: Damage dealt + Enemy Str/Mag stat 1/2

For example, if you used Leo's Brynhilder on a Berserker, and Rend Heaven activates, Leo would deal the damage as indicated on the attack log (the one right before you go in for the kill) + whatever the f half of the Berserker's Mag stat is. It uses the enemy's stat based off of the weapon YOU use.

Personally, I'm no fan of Rend Heaven.

As I see it, Sol/Luna are the middlemen between the two. Both have a skill-trigger rate x 1 (essentially your unit's skill stat), while Sol heals half of the damage you put out, and Luna halves the enemies Def/Res (also dependant on the weapon YOU use).

Personally, given the limited availability of Dragon Fang, I'd say Luna wins provided your pair it with Quixotic.

My suggestion would be to bundle Luna/Sol, Quixotic and Vantage to attacking units, while healers get Quixotic, Pavise, Aegis, and Live to Serve.

Hope this helps! :)

[Moblin Major General]

The amiibo-locked Ignis is technically strongest while having an even lower proc rate than Dragon Fang. Adding your other attacking stat to the one you are using to wield your current weapon can kill a lot of enemies outright.

[The DanMan]

Rend Heaven I've found to be the most useful, as physical units attacking magical units or vice-versa will easily one-round.

[GoXDS]

Rend Heaven is based on user's weapon, just like Luna is. Rend Heaven is probably best DPS in the situations where it's actually usable. that is, only when used by physical vs physical and only magical vs magical. though considering the general plethora of physical to magical, it's relatively useless when used by magical. the Proc rate is just crazy and its biggest boon

Luna is more even in dmg output since you can use it on either against either at an time. it's generally slightly weaker than Rend Heaven though since enemies typically have better Str than Def. its general usability and availability is its boon

Dragon Fang has potentially the largest burst dmg, especially with something like Omega Yato. though depending on the case, it's most likely the lowest average dmg (especially if we're gonna do average effective dmg if we're considering cases where skills aren't overkill or you were only a few dmg away from KOing) because of the lower proc rate

Vengeance got nerfed hard in 2 ways. reduced from 2x to 1.5x Skill proc and general lower HP of all units. and as always, dangerous to be at lower HP (and getting to max potential is difficult).

The amiibo-locked Ignis is technically strongest while having an even lower proc rate than Dragon Fang. Adding your other attacking stat to the one you are using to wield your current weapon can kill a lot of enemies outright.

except most units have terrible other stat so Ignis itself is not that great. it's also only half your other stat, not all. if you're talking specifically Robin, it's still only OK (I don't see anywhere that says amiibo Robin has a different Ignis nor should it). where are you even getting that Ignis has lower proc than Dragon Fang though? it's Skill% and makes no sense to change that. even if amiibo Robin has the different Ignis, the overall average dmg drops and I already mentioned Dragon Fang's weakness, so this makes Ignis weaker, especially when original Ignis was already generally worse than Luna

Edited August 20, 2016 by GoXDS

[Petersheikah]

The amiibo-locked Ignis is technically strongest while having an even lower proc rate than Dragon Fang. Adding your other attacking stat to the one you are using to wield your current weapon can kill a lot of enemies outright.

It's only decent when using it on a hybrid attacker, and since hybrid classes don't have high stat caps the damage boost isn't that great. The trigger rate is also higher than Dragon Fang's.

In general, Luna should be your best bet. If the enemy's defensive stat is low, Luna's boost won't matter much because you'd be killing him anyways. If the enemy's defensive stat is high, it provides a great boost that could make the difference between life and death.

Rend Heaven is quite useless outside of PvP, if you have a free skill slot I recommend using it though.

[yammers]

Seconding luna. Dragon fang honestly sucks. It's a marginal dps increase with a mediocre proc chance. Rend heaven is a good runner up since most of the time you'll end up using physical attacks on a physical enemy (if not, then you're attacking a mage most likely who already has laughable defense). It's kind of poor on magic wielders since the typical physical enemy has... 0 magic. Luna helps no matter who the enemy is, and it's the best thing to use against tanks.

[Aircalipoor]

Which skill is the best against Garon and Takumi in the last chapters of Conquest?

[Shadow Mir]

Seconding luna. Dragon fang honestly sucks. It's a marginal dps increase with a mediocre proc chance. Rend heaven is a good runner up since most of the time you'll end up using physical attacks on a physical enemy (if not, then you're attacking a mage most likely who already has laughable defense). It's kind of poor on magic wielders since the typical physical enemy has... 0 magic. Luna helps no matter who the enemy is, and it's the best thing to use against tanks.

I honestly fail to see how Dragon Fang sucks. The only real strike against it, as I see it, is availability.

Edited August 20, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[DragonFlames]

I found Rend Heaven to be incredibly strong on units who haven't got that much strength themselves, like Swordmasters, Kinshi Knights or Falcon Knights. Granted, Aether is better because of its two hits, but I still think Rend Heaven is a viable option.

Luna's strongest days were back in Awakening. In Fates, it is still useful against high-Def/high-Res foes, but it isn't as damaging as it was back then, at least I don't really think it is.

Dragon Fang is held back by a low activation rate. The RNG hates me anyway and I had Astra and Aether activate more often than this crappy skill (Skill/0.75% chance my ass). Damage-wise, its probably the most powerful proc and the earliest you are likely to get, so it's got that going for it, I suppose. I still prefer the one-two strike of Aether or Astra's five strikes.

The animation for it is badass, though.

[Alastor15243]

Honestly since stat inflation isn't as insane as in Awakening, you shouldn't be relying on just one of them unless you're willing to use both Quixotic and Hoshidan Unity, and even then, for just one skill that's kinda crazy. If you're going to use procs you'll want at least 2.

Rend Heaven is great for player phase, but for a build meant for enemy phase it's unreliable and should mostly be used as filler.

Dragon Fang and Luna are both great. I'd say Dragon Fang is better if you have either Hoshidan Unity or Quixotic equipped, since that renders the 25% skill penalty less significant to the overall proc rate.

[yammers]

I honestly fail to see how Dragon Fang sucks. The only real strike against it, as I see it, is availability.

Because proc chance. These skills more or less all give that circumstantial orko threshold you need to kill but dragon fang has the lowest proc.

[Shadow Mir]

Because proc chance. These skills more or less all give that circumstantial orko threshold you need to kill but dragon fang has the lowest proc.

Likewise, Rend Heaven can potentially add nothing or next to nothing, especially for mages. That ain't cool by my standards.

Edited August 20, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[yammers]

Likewise, Rend Heaven can potentially add nothing or next to nothing, especially for mages. That ain't cool by my standards.

Mages who have low defense to begin with? Also that's why I put luna as best, then rend heaven. Luna has a use in every scenario.

Edited August 20, 2016 by yammers

[Renall]

From an in-game perspective it's Dragon Fang because Dragon Fang actually exists. It might not contribute a ton but at least it's there for Corrin to use, and it works with Dragonstones so it slightly makes up for the lack of doubling. Endgame purposes or something... it will depend a great deal on stats, caps, weapon used, and so forth. Dragon Fang tends to be better the higher your Attack Power (so using an endgame Yato or heavily forged weapon with 16+ Mt improves it a lot), Astra tends to be better the higher your crit rate, Luna/Aether tend to be better the higher the enemy defense, and Rend Heaven is useless against off-stat enemies with 0 in their non-dominant attack stat.

If we assume an unmodified unboosted capped Hoshido Noble with an endgame Yato (16 Mt) then things sort of shake down as follows (number in parentheses is the average damage added per attack, which is how Luna can do more damage than Aether even though any given Aether proc always does more damage than a Luna proc):

• Berserker w/ 40 Str, 0 Mag, 20 Def: Rend Heaven (8.7) > Astra (6.5) > Aether (5.8) > Ignis (4.1) > Luna (2.9) > Dragon Fang (1.1).
• Onmyoji w/ 0 Str, 40 Mag, 15 Def: Dragon Fang (8.7) > Astra (7.6) > Aether (6.1) > Ignis (4.1) > Luna (2.2) > Rend Heaven (0).
• General w/ 35 Str, 0 Mag, 35 Def: Rend Heaven (7.6) > Dragon Fang (5.4) > Luna (5.1) > Aether (4.7) > Ignis (4.1) > Astra (3.3).
• Dark Knight w/ 32 Str, 34 Mag, 30 Def: Rend Heaven (7.0) > Aether (5.1) > Dragon Fang (5.0) > Luna = Astra (4.4) > Ignis (4.1).

The rough takeaway is that Rend Heaven is generally the best except attacking off-stat guys where it's the worst, Astra struggles against very high Def but is otherwise reasonably consistent, Aether and Ignis are consistent middle-of-the-road boosts. Luna is... surprisingly not that great unless you struggle to do any damage at all, and even in that case Dragon Fang is comparable (since a raw Attack Power boost tends to push you past enemy Defense caps). Rend Heaven mostly wins out because of consistency though; theoretically you might see better performance from the other skills with Quixotic and Hoshidan Unity since the effective Skill granted by those is greater for lower-activation skills (e.g. the combo is worth 25 Skl for Luna, 12.5 Skl for Rend Heaven, 50 Skl for Aether, and 100 Skl for Lethality). I also didn't account for something like Astra on a 100% Crit build but getting consistent Astra and 100% Crit is another matter and it'd still struggle against sufficiently high Def (get your damage down to 1 and Astra's not looking that impressive hitting for a whole 15 points).

Edited August 21, 2016 by Renall

[poptdp]

Dragon Fang is the best out of what you said.

But Aether is the best skill by far. I solo'd Siegbert's Paralogue on Lunatic with it. (Chapter 27)

[Shadow Mir]

Mages who have low defense to begin with? Also that's why I put luna as best, then rend heaven. Luna has a use in every scenario.

I meant for player mages, given that anything that's not hybrid or magic oriented has a big fat goose egg for their Magic stat, for the most part. Either way, it's enough to make Rend Heaven lose out in my book.

[Emerson]

I'd say Rend Heaven is the best for PvP, but not the best in the main game.

In PvP, Magic vs Magic or Physical vs Physical is going to happen more often, and it it's the other way around, they'll typically have low Def/Res anyways so it doesn't matter. Exceptions would be classes with equal defenses and offenses, Master Ninjas and Ninetails, plus some Onichans run Magic. Plus since most everyone is typically capped out in all stats, even when you're not up against someone with a high stat for Rend Heaven, it'll still increase you damage by ~15.

In the main game, the majority of units are Physical, so Rend Heaven is only good on your own physical units. Of course, units that can swap between them like Basara/Onichan!Hayato are easily the best wielders of this skill.

Luna can be either extremely good, or a minor increase in damage. Like Rend Heaven, it's best for Physical vs Physical and Magical vs Magical. In PvP, since everyone is normally capped, Luna is probably more reliable than Rend Heaven for consistent damage output while Rend Heaven has a higher damage output but less reliability.

Dragon Fang is really good overall, but has a limited amount of characters. I think it has the potential to be the most powerful overall, but it has the lowest proc rate out of the three making it unreliable. It does work very well with Hoshidan Unity, but that can be said for all Proc skills, this is just the most noticeable since the same class tree and units get both of them.

[yammers]

I meant for player mages, given that anything that's not hybrid or magic oriented has a big fat goose egg for their Magic stat, for the most part. Either way, it's enough to make Rend Heaven lose out in my book.

o... yea for sure don't put rend heaven on your mages lol. I still say luna is better for mages though, considering mages in fates have poor skill growths/caps which hurts dragon fang's below average proc rate even more. The thing I don't like about dragon fang is that a lot of the bonus damage is overkill, and that huge damage is supposed to be balanced with that lower proc rate, which leads me to think dragon fang got the short end of the stick out of the 3 skills.

[PuffPuff]

The amiibo-locked Ignis is technically strongest while having an even lower proc rate than Dragon Fang. Adding your other attacking stat to the one you are using to wield your current weapon can kill a lot of enemies outright.

It does amazing with the Faire skills. My Saizo can deal a whopping 150ish dmg with a +2 Killing Edge. Ignis is best given to units such as Saizo, Kagerou, and Soeli for their usual highest Str growths in the game! Females can get it with the Nohrian Trust skill when they pair with a unit that has it. Ignis would be best for Effie...too. But...she can only get it with Nohrian Trust that people buy off of hacked players. Soeli can legitimately get it though. :)

I honestly fail to see how Dragon Fang sucks. The only real strike against it, as I see it, is availability.

That even can do 150ish dmg for a Barb Shuriken maid. It's badass giving Felicia this...

Dragon Fang is the best out of what you said.

But Aether is the best skill by far. I solo'd Siegbert's Paralogue on Lunatic with it. (Chapter 27)

...And why that with the games lower caps will not help it much without Hoshidian Unity/Quixotic.

-----

Out of the three...

Dragon Fang.

It calculates by your weapon levels, Str, etc. Rend Heaven is more relieable online battles.

Dragon Fang is good for Swordmasters, Snipers, Master Ninjas, Nine Tails, Heros, Maids/Butlers and Lodesters for the highest skill related classes.

Luna is best for Magic users and making tanks fear them that Generals, Dark Knights, Wyvern Lords, Oni Chieftains, Merchants and Vanguards cannot easily avoid without Awakening for their lowest Spd in the game.

Rend Heaven is only any good in PvP.

[Renall]

Yeah I forgot to mention that, Ignis is not locked to Robin though females need Nohrian Trust to use it since it's Grandmaster only. I haven't calculated the ideal situation for Ignis but like Dragon Fang it does well when you have very high Attack already and is decent on hybrid attackers (i.e. capped out max stat characters who will have both Str and Mag maxed).

The biggest issue I can forsee with Ignis is that the best user of it is probably some version of Kana and even without skill buying Kana has access to Dragon Fang. The best build I've found for it is a Master Ninja Kana who uses a changeup of regular Shuriken and Felicia's Plate, but Dragon Fang adapts itself to mixed attacking as well so it's not like Ignis has a unique niche there. It does make Luna somewhat less impressive though since Kana can mostly target whichever defenses are lower. Though 100% Ignis is achievable on Kana without Quixotic while 100% Dragon Fang isn't, so that's something to consider.