FE: Heart of Dawn ( Demo available )

[Luchi]

All this talk of remakes for various fe games spread across this forums got me thinking:

Why don't i just combine FE9/10 into one fairly large jRPG, but with some very noticable changes, starting with... Ike.

I've noticed a lot of his fans paint his dislike of the nobility as a flaw. This is utterly false. Let me explain.

If Ike had been made an actual noble whose House served Crimea (like the Delbrays) and watched how they used and abused the commoners to their own ends, then it might have made perfect sense. The fact that the only 'evil' nobles in Tellius are the Senators and only pop up later in RD doesn't help matters. Had the narrative perhaps covered more slimeballs like Ludveck earlier and their actions had visibly affected Ike, then his dislike for them would have been justified.

An even better flaw for him would have been to let him be an experienced commander (and a few years older than his FE9 self) and have his cocksure-ness in battle and arrogance (which he got from his father. Greil is pretty arrogant, like it or not) costs him a great number of casaulties. Then Ike is forced to re-assess not only his behaviour, but he'll start doubting himself and wonder if his sword arm will be enough to protect Crimea. He'd probably suffer from PTSD as well.

That's a flaw. A true character flaw literally forces a character to rethink their actions and grow from it. See RD Elincia (inexperience), for example. Or hell, even her bodyguard (reckless overconfidence results in her underestimating Ludveck). Whatever flaws FE9 Ike has only exists to make him look good in the long run. So you can't call it a 'flaw'.

It sure as hell beats the "I noes, I'm too much of a greenhorn to live up to my awesome dad' anime-BS that FE9 dished up.

Other changes would including nuking the blood pact, so Ashnard/Naesala's actions wouldn't be retconned, extend Part 2, make Begnoin the Big Bad (yes, seriously. I have this idea where they decide to reclaim both Crimea and Daien. This also nukes the utter BS premise of fighting God) and seriously develop Micaiah and the rest of the Dawn Brigade.

I probably have several more ideas in the pipeline but that's it for now. I might not even finish the game as I have a more personal project in development that takes a lot of inspiration from FE ( the main character is based of RD Elincia, for a start ).

[Troykv]

All this talk of remakes for various fe games spread across this forums got me thinking:

Why don't i just combine FE9/10 into one fairly large jRPG, but with some very noticable changes, starting with... Ike.

I've noticed a lot of his fans paint his dislike of the nobility as a flaw. This is utterly false. Let me explain.

If Ike had been made an actual noble whose House served Crimea (like the Delbrays) and watched how they used and abused the commoners to their own ends, then it might have made perfect sense. The fact that the only 'evil' nobles in Tellius are the Senators and only pop up later in RD doesn't help matters. Had the narrative perhaps covered more slimeballs like Ludveck earlier and their actions had visibly affected Ike, then his dislike for them would have been justified.

An even better flaw for him would have been to let him be an experienced commander (and a few years older than his FE9 self) and have his cocksure-ness in battle and arrogance (which he got from his father. Greil is pretty arrogant, like it or not) costs him a great number of casaulties. Then Ike is forced to re-assess not only his behaviour, but he'll start doubting himself and wonder if his sword arm will be enough to protect Crimea. He'd probably suffer from PTSD as well.

That's a flaw. A true character flaw literally forces a character to rethink their actions and grow from it. See RD Elincia (inexperience), for example. Or hell, even her bodyguard (reckless overconfidence results in her underestimating Ludveck). Whatever flaws FE9 Ike has only exists to make him look good in the long run. So you can't call it a 'flaw'.

It sure as hell beats the "I noes, I'm too much of a greenhorn to live up to my awesome dad' anime-BS that FE9 dished up.

Other changes would including nuking the blood pact, so Ashnard/Naesala's actions wouldn't be retconned, extend Part 2, make Begnoin the Big Bad (yes, seriously. I have this idea where they decide to reclaim both Crimea and Daien. This also nukes the utter BS premise of fighting God) and seriously develop Micaiah and the rest of the Dawn Brigade.

I probably have several more ideas in the pipeline but that's it for now. I might not even finish the game as I have a more personal project in development that takes a lot of inspiration from FE ( the main character is based of RD Elincia, for a start ).

That sounds like a long game, good luck Luchino, let's first end the "PoR" Part of the game xD

___

Oh! What do you plan with the FE-Inspired Game?

Edited November 18, 2016 by Troykv

[Augestein]

Nuking the bloodpact is a good idea.

And the reason people say Ike's dislike of nobles to be a flaw is because it's just an outward discriminatory thing he does without any rhyme or reason. It's a flaw in that he's prejudging people based on their social status before he even gets to know them. It IS a flaw that he's judgmental. The problem is that this NEVER comes into play in the game.

Also if Begnion is evil, does that mean evil Sanaki? Okay, I have to see this if that's the case.

[epilepsyduck]

I'd really save FE10 for it's own project if I was gonna remake it at all instead of trying to squish it and FE9 together. Not only would a fusion of the two be really long, but RD's structure is a bit too different from PoR's for that to really feel natural in my eyes. I'll admit I'm not a game developer so you'd probably find some way to make it work that I'm not thinking of, but that's just how I feel about it.

Admittedly the possibility of a Part 3 RD that focused on a Laguz main character and put less emphasis on Ike would be cool, though.

[Luchi]

I'm just throwing out ideas if I ever get to a sequel. Sanaki will most definitely not be evil ( while I can't stand her *RBF, she's one of the better written characters in Tellius ), it's more like the senators set her up on some trump charge and get her thrown in jail along with Sephiran. The Black Knight is non-existant in my rewrites so Zelgius is actually the good guy for once. No, it's more of a plot where Crimea, Daien and the laguz nations form one great army and march against Begnoin's tyranny (aka nations bonding together to topple an evil empire, while its one of the biggest cliches around, works for FE). But yes, that's the general gist at its most basic level.

*Resting Bitch Face

Or I'll just make RD: Part II: The Game (shrugs). A more human scale of conflict beats taking down God any day.

In this game however:

Greil probably still kicks the bucket, but I don't want Ashnard to kill him. I'd like to keep the conflict between him and Elincia. Or Greil lives and just remains that Cool Old Guy in the background and serves as a dispenser of wisdom. Tbqh, I'm tired of daddy deaths in jRPGs as a whole.

Characters like Shinon and Mia will have expanded backstories, like Shinon's hatred of laguz/Ike. Mia will eventually come to realise that the way of the sword is more than just becoming the best and proving a point to the world ( the fact that she comes from Begnoin was probably the biggest surprise for me, but I can now understand why she hates the 'stay in the kitchen' mentality ).

Playable character data so far:

BASE STATS

Notes:

SP is built up when a unit takes hits from their foes ( like a mini 'limit-break' meter ).

Equipping Arms Scrolls boosts weapon rank since there isn't a traditional 'weapon-levelling'

system in the game. Scrolls range from Rank C all the way to Rank S.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Elincia

Princess Level 1

Affinity: Heaven ( half damage from all magical elements )

HP: 20

MP: 10

Str: 3

Mag: 7

Spd: 6

Def: 3

Weapon usage:

Light C

Base skills:

Renewal ( recover 10% of baseHP per turn in battle ) - Can be unequipped

Mercy: Restores a small amount of HP for all allies and removes negative status' (6MP)

10/0 stats:

30 HP, 17 MP, 10 Str, 7 Def, 15 Mag, 14 Spd

20/0 stats:

40 HP, 24 MP, 17 Str, 11 Def, 24 Mag, 23 Spd

20/1 stats:

44 HP, 27 MP, 21 Str, 17 Def, 26 Mag, 25 Spd

Gains C Swords and the Charisma skill

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Lucia

Swordmaster Level 1

Affinity: Earth ( Phys./Mag. damage reduced by 3 )

HP: 36

MP: 16

Str: 16

Mag: 12

Spd: 21

Def: 13

Weapon usage:

Swords A

Base skills:

Vantage ( always strike first in battle ) - Can be unequipped

Parity: Cancels the buffs of all enemies on the field. (7 MP, 4 turn-cooldown)

Dual Attack: Strikes one foe twice. Can Disarm them as well. (5 MP, 2 turn-cooldown)

Critical: Deals a critical hit to a foe. (5 SP)

20/10 stats:

49 HP, 21 MP, 26 Str, 18 Def, 14 Mag, 32 Spd

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ike

Mercenary Level 4

Affinity: Earth ( Phys./Mag. damage reduced by 3 )

HP: 24

MP: 4

Str: 10

Mag: 5

Spd: 10

Def: 8

Weapon usage:

Swords D

Base skills: None

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Soren

Mage Level 3

Affinity: Dark ( MaxHP +2, Evade +5 )

HP: 16 +2

MP: 13

Str: 4

Mag: 13

Spd: 8

Def: 3

Weapon usage:

Wind D

Base skills:

----------------------------------------------

Gatrie

Knight Level 9

Affinity: Light ( DEF +3, Evade +5 )

HP: 32

MP: 9

Str: 14

Mag: 5

Spd: 8

Def: 14 +3

Weapon usage:

Lance C

Base skills:

Rally Defence ( 5 MP, Boosts all allies DEF stat by 3. 4-turn cooldown )

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Shinon

Sniper Level 1

Affinity: Thunder ( Critical +5 )

HP: 38

MP: 11

Str: 18

Mag: 4

Spd: 15

Def: 13

Weapon usage:

Bow A

Base skills:

Critical: Deals a critical hit to a foe. (5 SP)

Taunt: Lowers ATK and DEF of one foe by 5 ( 7 MP, 3-turn cooldown )

Leg Aim: Stops a foe from attacking ( 3 MP, 2-turn cooldown )

20/10 stats:

51 HP, 17 MP, 27 Str, 18 Def, 8 Mag, 24 Spd

--------------------------------------------------------

Mia

Myrmidon Level 7

Affinity: Fire ( ATK +2 )

TBA

----------------------------------------------------------

Lethe

Mordercai

[blah the Prussian]

I like the idea of the Senate doing a legitimate coup against her. They could do it; there would be plenty of backlash against kneeling before Reyson. For added Monarchist appeal, make them declare a Republic. You could also keep Sephiran as a traitor, just make him a ruthless opportunist who wants to set himself up as the savior against the Senators, but want to keep Sanaki as a puppet.

[Augestein]

Oh, that's fine that there's no evil Sanaki. I was just taken aback from that and was curious how that would have worked.

I like the idea of the Senate doing a legitimate coup against her. They could do it; there would be plenty of backlash against kneeling before Reyson. For added Monarchist appeal, make them declare a Republic. You could also keep Sephiran as a traitor, just make him a ruthless opportunist who wants to set himself up as the savior against the Senators, but want to keep Sanaki as a puppet.

This especially works, because if she keeps PoR anywhere like it does in some regards, Sanaki spends all of her time giving away land rather than expanding on the empire. She gives the land back to the herons, Crimea could not have reclaimed victory without Begnion's interference or at least neutrality which leads one to believe that it had the most influence in the continent and Sanaki doesn't take advantage of it and instead allows Crimea to work as its own state. It might be a sovereign state, but Sanaki doesn't even do much with it. I could already see rumors on the streets about questioning Sanaki's ability to rule. Cap that with the fact that no one has actually seen her Apostle powers (if she's keeping that), and a smear job on Sanaki would be very possible. With the bloodpact out of the way and not hi-jacking the plot, she can actually focus on those aspects instead for at least a subplot for Sanaki.

[blah the Prussian]

Oh, that's fine that there's no evil Sanaki. I was just taken aback from that and was curious how that would have worked.

This especially works, because if she keeps PoR anywhere like it does in some regards, Sanaki spends all of her time giving away land rather than expanding on the empire. She gives the land back to the herons, Crimea could not have reclaimed victory without Begnion's interference or at least neutrality which leads one to believe that it had the most influence in the continent and Sanaki doesn't take advantage of it and instead allows Crimea to work as its own state. It might be a sovereign state, but Sanaki doesn't even do much with it. I could already see rumors on the streets about questioning Sanaki's ability to rule. Cap that with the fact that no one has actually seen her Apostle powers (if she's keeping that), and a smear job on Sanaki would be very possible. With the bloodpact out of the way and not hi-jacking the plot, she can actually focus on those aspects instead for at least a subplot for Sanaki.

Actually, make that a Senate-Military alliance, then- Jarod could be a sympathetic villain, appealing to common soldiers- "You fought and died against Daein, and for what? So the Apostle can sit in her palace and feel good about herself? This was your victory- its time to enjoy it!" This then could be prompted by the decision to withdraw from Daein. Jarod could escape and spin a narrative about how the Begnion army didn't lose, they were betrayed by Sanaki and Sephiran. It would be like if the Red Army withdrew from Germany and let Hitler's son take power; people would be justifiably pissed.

[Augestein]

Actually, make that a Senate-Military alliance, then- Jarod could be a sympathetic villain, appealing to common soldiers- "You fought and died against Daein, and for what? So the Apostle can sit in her palace and feel good about herself? This was your victory- its time to enjoy it!" This then could be prompted by the decision to withdraw from Daein. Jarod could escape and spin a narrative about how the Begnion army didn't lose, they were betrayed by Sanaki and Sephiran. It would be like if the Red Army withdrew from Germany and let Hitler's son take power; people would be justifiably pissed.

Yeah! Actually, that would work really well for RD without changing much. Just have Jarod try to defeat Micaiah in 1-9, and then Endgame doesn't happen. Then you can have what you said. Like literally, this starts writing itself at that point.

[Luchi]

We may be getting ahead of ourselves for a possible RD rewrite ( it may even be too ambitious for me to pull off alone; I took 4 years to finish my first 12 hour jRPG after all ), but I like those ideas nonetheless.

Production on this fan-game will be extremely slow due to investing almost all of my free time into my current magnum opus (I've been developing it since 2013). Fan works are generally low on my priority lists when it comes to my personal projects (I am equally slow when it comes to fan art). Just a heads up for those who are interested in this game.

Spoilering the 'FE-inspired jRPG' since it isn't related to the topic at hand.

I quite like the idea of a female character having the highest ATK stat in the game.

Dark is not evil. All pixel art/UI designs are my own.

As you can see, it is clearly inspired by FE (though the character art/icons are placeholders since I'm intending to sell the game within a year or two) with your blue-haired main character who has been driven out of her homeland and her loyal lady knight... Though I mainly looked to Geneology for the inspiration behind the main heroes Holy Blood and Final Fantasy Tactics on how a video game actually handles war if you take the demons out of the mix ( my ideal FE would be written by Yatsumi Matsuno tbqh ).

This is not a game of black and white morality: The heroines do questionable things to preserve the integrity of not only their own interests, but for the stability of their country as a whole. Think of a more developed Micaiah when looking at Ianna; she even uses Light magic like Miccy. She is basically a crossover between Elincia/Micaiah and Tristian is a better version of Lucia (who is also one of the better written (and under-rated) characters in Tellius).

The antagonists have reasonable aims and goals but won't hesitate to screw over anyone who stands in their way and they most certainly are not in league with some demon/dragon-worshiping cabal.

Although Ianna is blessed (or cursed) with a tremendous power, she questions the moral implications of using what essentially amounts to a weapon of mass destruction against her foes. Tristian, a woman who has seen her fair share of battle and who is universally feared for her battle prowess, gives her some sage advice: That warfare is not as clear cut as people make it out to be and that Ianna will need to bloody her hands to get stuff done.

Made all the more harder because it is a civil war that is being fought, rather than a large-scale conflict between two nations (an idea I borrowed from the best narrative in FE: Part 2 of Radiant Dawn ).

So that's that. Like with every video game I've developed so far, I tend to put my heart and soul into it.

[Augestein]

Makes sense to me. And yeah, I can see the FE inspiration in that game.

[Luchi]

Some more screens

And some lore I've been writing:

The unbreakable weapons; apart from Ragnell and Alondite, like the Amiti and Gurgurant, originate from Begnoin. Given that Crimea and Daien are offshoots from Begnoin itself, it is possible that Dukes Caradock and Hengist could have simply been successors to these weapons, and took it for themselves upon becoming Kings of their respective nations. And has since been passed down through the ages. It is possible that the weapons could have been blessed by holy men, given Begnoin's strong theocratic background.

There are no concrete rules stipulating who has the rights to wield the two holy swords of the first Apostle of Begnoin, who,despite the popular legend , did not wield both swords simultaneously nor did she use them in close-range combat. Though the Goddess Ashera could have blessed both Ragnell and Alondite to be feather-light and that that particular blessing has worn off over time. However, the mental image of the rather slim Altina dual-wielding both weapons is still ludicrous...

[Glaceo]

I'm positive it's spelled "Daein", not "Daien".

[Luchi]

So I've been thinking things through about how I'm going to handle the direction of this game now.

I'll be cutting the GMs out entirely, Kieran won't get captured ( instead he'll accompany Elincia and Lucia with his knights to Gallia ) and the plot will centre around the severely under-appreciated CRKs. Also, this way Greil doesn't feature at all, nor does BK and best of all, neither does Ike ( he's my least favourite Tellius character after Sothe and Makalov ). I don't want to shoe-horn either of them into a rewrite, when they've already had an entire game and a half to themselves.

I suppose my overwhelming dislike for the GMs kind of stops me from working on the game in its current format so removing them is for the best if I want to finish this fan project of mine. It's a curious thing you know, I have a love/hate relationship with Tellius: Hate Ike and his Mercs, love the CRKs/Elincia/Lucia, hate the gameplay ( unbalanced taken up to 11 ) but love the world-building, hate the scene-stealing Black Knight but Ashnard/Ludveck are cool. Etc. etc...

However, Mia will still feature ( since she wasn't an original member of the merc troupe ) and will instead be freed by Kieran and the others. I've stated this in an earlier post, but I do intend to flesh out her character more: that she has to realise there's more to the sword than trying to be the best or to prove her strength. And who better to teach this to her than Lucia herself. They're complete opposites, both in terms of what they stand for and even their outfits: Mia is selfish, Lucia is selfless, Mia's a Genki girl, Lucia's calm etc. Even though there is only a 5-year age gap between them, Lucia still seems so much more mature, which would make her a good 'mentor' figure for Mia ( and the Tellius Recollection does call Lucia a master swordswoman so-- Only IS mucked up and gave her crappy stats. Clear example of gameplay and story segregation. Though her obscene growths was probably an indication as to how strong she really was. 50% Str and 40% Def/Res is ridiculous on a swordmaster. Goes up to 65% Str in Awakening... )

Even if you remove them, the core of the original game remains the same, which was really about Elincia trying to regain her throne. And in my honest opinion, her brief character arc in Part 2 was better than Ike's entire arc in PoR.

[Augestein]

So is the arc with the laguz still being a thing then? I'm curious what your final line-up for characters is looking like now.

[Luchi]

Tellius wouldn't be Tellius without the racism aspect, so yes, I've got quite a number of playable laguz in the line-up now.

Revised unit roster: Still a WIP. I'll probably turn it into a fancy infographic later down the line, but I want to finalise everything first.

Elincia

Princess Level 1

Affinity: Heaven ( raises Hit rate )

HP: 20

MP: 10

Str: 3

Mag: 7

Spd: 6

Def: 3

Weapon rank:

Light C

Starting weapon:

Light tome

Base skills:

Renewal ( recover 10% of baseHP per turn in battle ) - Can be unequipped

Mercy: Restores a small amount of HP for all allies and removes negative status' (6MP)

10/0 stats:

30 HP, 17 MP, 10 Str, 7 Def, 15 Mag, 14 Spd

20/0 stats:

40 HP, 24 MP, 17 Str, 11 Def, 24 Mag, 23 Spd

20/1 stats:

44 HP, 27 MP, 21 Str, 17 Def, 26 Mag, 25 Spd

Gains C Swords and the Charisma skill

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Lucia

Swordmaster Level 1

Affinity: Earth ( Phys./Mag. damage reduced by 3 )

HP: 36

MP: 16

Str: 16

Mag: 12

Spd: 21

Def: 13

Weapon rank:

Swords A

Starting weapons:

Iron Blade, Wind Edge

Base skills:

Pursuit: Strike twice - (can be unequipped)

Parity: Cancels the buffs of all enemies on the field. (7 MP, 4 turn-cooldown)

Dual Attack: Strikes one foe twice. Can Disarm them as well. (5 MP, 2 turn-cooldown)

Critical: Deals a critical hit to a foe. (5 SP)

20/10 stats:

49 HP, 21 MP, 26 Str, 18 Def, 14 Mag, 32 Spd

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Kieran

Axe Knight Level 4

Affinity: Wind ( SPD +2 )

HP: 27

MP: 6

Str: 10

Mag: 4

Spd: 7

Def: 9

Weapon rank:

Axes C

Starting weapons:

Steel Axe, Hand Axe

Base skill:

Rally Defence: Raises the defence stat of one unit by 3 for 3 turns. (5MP, 4-turn cooldown)

Gamble: Raises Critical rate by 50%, halves hit.

10/0 stats:

30 HP, 10 MP, 16 Str, 14 Def, 6 Mag, 10 Spd

20/0 stats:

45 HP, 16 MP, 26 Str, 22 Def, 10 Mag, 16 Spd

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mia

Myrmidon Level 7

Affinity: Fire ( ATK +2 )

HP: 25

MP: 11

Str: 6 ( +2 )

Mag: 4

Spd: 16

Def: 6

Weapon rank:

C

Starting weapon:

Wo Dao

Base skill:

Pursuit: Strike twice

Rally Speed: Raises the SPD stat of one ally by 3 for 3 turns.

10/0 stats:

27 HP, 13 MP, 8 Str, 7 Def, 4 Mag, 19 Spd

20/0 stats:

33 HP, 20 MP, 12 Str, 10 Def, 7 Mag, 28 Spd

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Other units: I chose each of them for a specific reason.

Lethe - representing Gallia, hates beorc, gradually overcomes it

Mordercai - gentle giant who wants beorc and laguz to work together

Zihark - covers beorc/laguz relationships. Since I kicked Ike out, I can have him back xD

Jill - the bigot who changes her way of thinking. her interactions with Lethe are very important

Tormod - gives background on the laguz slave trade

Muarim - see tormod, serves as his protector, showing that beorc and laguz can live together in peace

Janaff - representing phoenics, similar to lethe, develops a crush on Lucia ( ulki is an NPC )

Tanith - gives the group background info on Ashnard's rise to power, represents Begnoin

Reyson - represents Serenes, another beorc hater

Geoffrey - obvious

Bastian - obvious

So I've got a roster of around 15 units which may be expanded to around 20. I only realised I don't have a primary lance user and an armour knight, so Nephenee and Brom will be added to the unit line-up. The final three units will be Tibarn, Giffca and Naesala which gives me 20.

Started working on menu screens as well.

This was just a test to see how the portraits would work against the blue.

Affinities as equips.

Main equip scene. Kieran's hit is very... iffy. Though throwing a Heaven affinity on him will help make use of Gamble.

[Augestein]

Those menus are looking good. Also, Nephenee / Brom would be good choices on the account that you could still have the prison break chapter and have them explain what happened to other people that weren't exactly knights. They were just militia, so it can give some more perspective on things. I do have to ask, is the whole medallion aspect going to be removed from the game, or that still a thing? With Ike and company gone, I can only see the medallion aspect really starting to work later on in the game. I mean I guess Elincia could have been given the Medallion as a symbol of the Beorc / Laguz alliance that Crimea and Gallia had, and the "berserking" aspects could be removed, I'm just curious about how that would work.

[Luchi]

Oh, I'm sure I'll think of something. Tbqh, I never liked the idea of the medallion housing a 'dark god'; it is a cliche that had to die twenty years ago, so your suggestion about it representing an alliance between the laguz and beorc is quite a good one. =)

[Lord of Gabriel Knight]

Though I always did wonder why the Daien army was pursuing her in FE9. Was it because they wanted her dead, or was it because she was originally slated to be the actual carrier of Lehran's Medallion in an earlier draft...? The latter would have made a lot more sense. Because then Ashnard would have had a personal connection with Elincia, and we wouldn't have ended up with that ridiculous anti-climax at the beginning of Ch.29/Endgame.

His mother just happened to befriend a Heron princess, who had the Fire Emblem. Elena also just happened to have so much order in her that she hold the medallion without going berserk. She also just happened to marry a man (who not only trained Zelgius, but also happens to be stronger than a Branded swordsman which in itself is highly improbable). Zelgius just happens to be not only Ashnard's right hand man, but Sephiran's as well. Ike just happens to stumble across a Branded swordsman in the middle of a desert who just happens to teach him a technique that will enable him to defeat BK.... Seriously.

The list goes on and on and on. That is bad writing. All examples of plot contrivance. Think of how different the game would have been without it. Just removing the Black Knight from the picture changes everything. Greil can still be that 'cool old guy', Ike can still be a regular, blunt mercenary who is doing his job and Elincia would still become Queen in the end. BK just exists to make Ike look wtfawesome(not) in RD.

So, I just read this, and I have to say, you're missing or intentionally ignoring a lot of the factors here.

Daein chases Elincia because she's heir to the throne and can (and does) start opposition to their occupation of Crimea.

Elena 'just so happens' to become friends with the Heron princess because she was imprisoned in the same place Elena worked and because Elena is a nice person. It's not like it was a chance meeting at all, like you imply it to be. Zelgius is Ashnard's right hand man as well as Sephiran's, because Sephiran installed him there, purposefully. And Greil is not more powerful than a Branded swordsman, evident by the fact that he is killed by said Branded swordsman.

Did you even read the story?

Edited December 22, 2016 by Lord of Gabriel Knight

[Augestein]

So, I just read this, and I have to say, you're missing or intentionally ignoring a lot of the factors here.

Daein chases Elincia because she's heir to the throne and can (and does) start opposition to their occupation of Crimea.

Elena 'just so happens' to become friends with the Heron princess because she was imprisoned in the same place Elena worked and because Elena is a nice person. It's not like it was a chance meeting at all, like you imply it to be. Zelgius is Ashnard's right hand man as well as Sephiran's, because Sephiran installed him there, purposefully. And Greil is not more powerful than a Branded swordsman, evident by the fact that he is killed by said Branded swordsman.

Did you even read the story?

The issue with Daein chasing Elincia is actually one from the plot twist that's revealed later; they wanted a fight to envelop the entire continent of Tellius. If Elincia were to have died there, there wouldn't be a war that accomplishes this. So it does seem bizarre and contrived that they were trying to capture and kill Elincia when you consider that all it essentially does is cause Ike and company to become involved. There should be no reason for Elincia to be pursued like that, because without the GMs, she would have surely died. Before this, there was a reason that the player could have filled in for obvious reasons. It's the story itself that makes it to where this is specifically not the case and becomes nonsensical. It also serves as the reason that the BK found Greil. And this only happened specifically because Ike was stupid AND Greil went to make sure Ike was okay rather than Mist. Greil only dies because of the above, which was already pretty convoluted in the first place. Especially if you consider Radiant Dawn where they reveal that the BK was just "upset" that Greil wasn't as strong as he used to be.

Elena meeting Leanne isn't that bad. That's explained by Elena being at the prison. However, Elena coincidentally having enough order to not go berserk (they should have never wrote the whole berserk thing in to be honest) kinda is-- especially because it seems really random about what type of qualities make someone not go berserk. Elena just so happening to marry the same man that just so happened to train Zelgius that just so happened to feel alone and isolated so he met Sephiran IS a bit of a stretch. Also, Greil losing is even stupid when you look under a retroactive scope, because Greil refused to use Ragnell, and the BK asks "do you want to die?" Rather than saying "you can't defeat me with an axe," if he truly wanted what he wanted in RD, then he shouldn't have fought Greil if Greil refused to use the right weapon. Greil's death is one of the most pointless and poorly written things when you consider the rest of the saga.

[Lord of Gabriel Knight]

The issue with Daein chasing Elincia is actually one from the plot twist that's revealed later; they wanted a fight to envelop the entire continent of Tellius. It also serves as the reason that the BK found Greil. And this only happened specifically because Ike was stupid AND Greil went to make sure Ike was okay rather than Mist. Greil only dies because of the above, which was already pretty convoluted in the first place. Especially if you consider Radiant Dawn where they reveal that the BK was just "upset" that Greil wasn't as strong as he used to be.

Elena just so happening to marry the same man that just so happened to train Zelgius that just so happened to feel alone and isolated so he met Sephiran IS a bit of a stretch. Also, Greil losing is even stupid when you look under a retroactive scope, because Greil refused to use Ragnell, and the BK asks "do you want to die?" Rather than saying "you can't defeat me with an axe," if he truly wanted what he wanted in RD, then he shouldn't have fought Greil if Greil refused to use the right weapon. Greil's death is one of the most pointless and poorly written things when you consider the rest of the saga.

Ashnard is trying to make a world where only the strong survive. Which is why Ashnard pursues Elincia, because she would stop him from achieving this if she gained support. Plus, his philosophy is to crush the weak, and he thinks she's weak. And if Elincia died, he would have taken over Crimea and then invaded another country, sparking another war.

Elena marrying Greil is not 'a bit of a stretch' Greil was very well known and Elena worked at a very well known temple. Zelgius felt alone because he feels his mentor abandoned him when Greil and Elena fled Daein. That's when Sephiran found him and befriended him, to use him as a tool. It was planned by Sephiran.

Zelgius went out of his way to find Greil to beat him and kill him. He wants to prove to himself that he's better than Greil. He sees that Ike can be the Greil he never beat, so Zelgius kills Greil to make Ike hate him and want to get stronger to avenge his father.

Also, writing off plot points as bad because 'they just so happen' is a very empty way to do so. Dramatic plots, especially when a lot of characters are involved, require many interactions that probably wouldn't happen otherwise, it's the entire point of drama.

Edited December 23, 2016 by Lord of Gabriel Knight

[Augestein]

Ashnard is trying to make a world where only the strong survive. Which is why Ashnard pursues Elincia, because she would stop him from achieving this if she gained support. Plus, his philosophy is to crush the weak, and he thinks she's weak. And if Elincia died, he would have taken over Crimea and then invaded another country, sparking another war.

Elena marrying Greil is not 'a bit of a stretch' Greil was very well known and Elena worked at a very well known temple. Zelgius felt alone because he feels his mentor abandoned him when Greil and Elena fled Daein. That's when Sephiran found him and befriended him, to use him as a tool. It was planned by Sephiran.

Zelgius went out of his way to find Greil to beat him and kill him. He wants to prove to himself that he's better than Greil. He sees that Ike can be the Greil he never beat, so Zelgius kills Greil to make Ike hate him and want to get stronger to avenge his father.

Also, writing off plot points as bad because 'they just so happen' is a very empty way to do so. Dramatic plots, especially when a lot of characters are involved, require many interactions that probably wouldn't happen otherwise, it's the entire point of drama.

Except you're still missing my point. They wanted Elincia, and for no clear reason in Chapter 4 and 5 they just attack Ike and company instead of just... You know, reasonably saying that they wanted Elincia. Ike and company have nothing to do with the conflict but it's forced on them simply to cause a mess where the group has Elincia. Even if they wanted her dead, there's no reason to attack Ike. At all. It's stupid, and only serves as a point to force the Greil Mercenaries that have no reason to side with Elincia or Daein to side with Elincia through consequence of having people behave completely irrationally. Regardless of that, it still makes sense initially to pursue Elincia for those reasons. It's later when things are revealed that are the problem. The issue isn't simply to "have a war." The issue is to have a war that involves all races at once. Elincia being alive is the only real way to do that. If she's dead, attacked someone else doesn't do anything. If he attacks Begnion, he's toast, and if he attacks that laguz, that's a massive gambit that requires Begnion to give a whit about it. If Begnion doesn't, there's no war that involves the whole continent. At least with Elincia alive, there's some sort of "plan" to it. It's not just bad for one reason, it's nonsensical in a lot of reasons because of that plot twist of wanting the entire continent to be at war. Because in a best case scenario, there's no real way to get dragons or Begnion involved --we'll ignore RD's wolves for a minute there because that's an entirely other beast (haha).

Elena marrying Greil isn't a stretch. You're taking her point and mincing it into smaller portions to try to make what she said nonsense. But it's not entirely nonsensical. It's not that she married Greil that is the problem. It's the fact that you have a bunch of events that just so happen to be involved with the same people. It's a bit much. It's not like say... Fire Emblem 1 where all of these things happen to Marth because he's part of the bloodline that can stop all the villain's plans. It's not like Roy where Roy keeps running into nonsense and people keep joining up with him so he has to inevitably saddle up and be the lead general. Those aren't coincidences, but here? These things just so happen to be happening and "whoa look at that, 'Ike is important' (not at all honestly)." In other words, all of that contrivance is the worst attempt at making Ike relevant. Most of the shaky writing in PoR literally comes from this. The plot of Elincia reclaiming her kingdom is overall fine, but most things involving Ike is where most of the problems occur in the plot.

Except that doesn't make any sense. It'd be better to leave Greil alive so Ike can be finished learning from Greil rather than... You know, killing Greil (the reasoning is that he's just so frustrated about Greil that he kills him.). It's part of the story at quite a few points that Ike has not refined his style completely. That's an incredibly poor reason for that. It's why the BK is such a poor character overall. It's like "I felt abandoned because Greil left me, so the first thing I do when I see him again is kill him." What? You can't be serious if you don't think that's just atrocious. Sephiran manipulating him would have been fine, if you know... Greil was DEAD, but he's not until Zelgius himself ensures that this happens. So yeah, that's lousy. The entire plot just paints Zelgius to be a complete drama queen and we don't even get enough a fleshed out backstory to believe that someone could behave that erratically. And if he was just his BK persona it wouldn't be so bad, but he's a big time general in Begnion.

No. It's not. "They just happen" is a reason to call them poorly written. There's a difference between plausible events that occur in a sequence of events, ie, Bob goes to the store, so anything can happen while he's at the store, it's another thing that Bob goes to the store in a rush, and with very little money, and every item he needs is not only in stock, but also discounted 75% off, with no lines, and he had the exact amount of cash he needed to by the bike he's been totally not saving up for. It's called suspension of disbelief, and there are some things that can come across as believable for a tale, and there are some things that are written so conveniently that it's almost too neat to believe. That's how PoR works. Stuff happens, and then everything magically falls into place despite the fact that it probably shouldn't. It's like I said with Ike running off in Goldoa territory. Ike runs into some dragons, so far so good. But these dragons aren't just any dragons, these ones just so happen to have the prince as an escort! Sounds like bad news. Oh wait, it's not because not only does the prince not feel like following his father's law / orders, but he's also going to give the troops more supplies for no reason, and fix the problem of the ship snag and send them on their merry little way. Good thing Ike didn't run into anyone else or someone that actually followed what the lore said! Phew! That was close!

[Lord of Gabriel Knight]

No, you're missing my point. Elincia being alive does not stop a world war from happening at all. He wants a world where people can make their way up the social order by way of power. So he wants to create a war where people will be forced to become strong fighters to survive, fighters who don't care about anyone else. If he kills Elincia, why would he stop at Crimea? He thinks he's a powerful person, he thinks he'll have the power of a dark god to help him, why would he stop? He'd just go from country to country killing whomever he wants to make his goal a reality.

The reason they attack Ike is because while they were chasing Elincia, the Greil Mercenaries defended her. If they are trying to kill her, naturally, they will try to kill the people who defend her.

"It's the fact that you have a bunch of events that just so happen to be involved with the same people." ?????? Ike and his family are the main characters of the story. Of course a lot of the events of the story will focus on them. That's why they are main characters. A great majority of plots detail events that happen to the main characters. It's what stories do.

So you think Zelgius is a bad character because he doesn't make logical decisions? Yes, what Zelgius does makes him an asshole. That's drama! Literally the point of drama. "Someone could behave that erratically" People behave erratically all the time in reality and fiction. Him doing what he did is a perfectly realistic occurrence. That's why Ashera wants to turn humans to stone; humans are chaotic! They do stupid things and they don't always make sense!

The wolves are bad writing though.

Edited December 24, 2016 by Lord of Gabriel Knight

[Augestein]

No, you're missing my point. Elincia being alive does not stop a world war from happening at all. He wants a world where people can make their way up the social order by way of power. So he wants to create a war where people will be forced to become strong fighters to survive, fighters who don't care about anyone else. If he kills Elincia, why would he stop at Crimea? He thinks he's a powerful person, he thinks he'll have the power of a dark god to help him, why would he stop? He'd just go from country to country killing whomever he wants to make his goal a reality.

The reason they attack Ike is because while they were chasing Elincia, the Greil Mercenaries defended her. If they are trying to kill her, naturally, they will try to kill the people who defend her.

"It's the fact that you have a bunch of events that just so happen to be involved with the same people." ?????? Ike and his family are the main characters of the story. Of course a lot of the events of the story will focus on them. That's why they are main characters. A great majority of plots detail events that happen to the main characters. It's what stories do.

So you think Zelgius is a bad character because he doesn't make logical decisions? Yes, what Zelgius does makes him an asshole. That's drama! Literally the point of drama. "Someone could behave that erratically" People behave erratically all the time in reality and fiction. Him doing what he did is a perfectly realistic occurrence. That's why Ashera wants to turn humans to stone; humans are chaotic! They do stupid things and they don't always make sense!

The wolves are bad writing though.

I think you mean dead. Not alive. I'll assume that. Her being alive is what lead to there being the possibility of a world war. My issue with is is this: if his goal is to destroy everything, why does Ashnard waste his time chasing Elincia rather than you know...? Focusing on everything else in particular? If she wants to come back and fight for round 2? Let her, if she beats him, then she's proven that she's stronger than him. He deserves to die. Ashnard pretty much says as such against Ike. In the prison break chapter, what good are prisoners in Ashnard's campaign? Why not just kill them? There's no rhyme or reason to any of this. That's what I'm saying Ashnard pursuing Elincia makes sense until the plot twist tbh.

The reason they attack Ike is in Chapter 4. They literally attack because they have weapons, and even when they try to say they aren't Crimean knights the commander acts completely out of his mind and attacks anyways instead of... You know, looking for Elincia? If Ike and company are just standing there, what reason is there to attack if the group doesn't even want to fight? Ike and company hadn't even found Elincia there. I'm not talking about 6+. Even at 5 there's still time for the general to simply ask for them to hand her over. The reason the GMs protected Elincia is because Daein decided that they weren't going to use diplomacy at all. Which is weird because I don't see why you wouldn't want to ask this group to join them. They are strong and fit Ashnard's philosophy perfectly. And it didn't stop them from recruiting Shinon later on.

You're still misunderstanding. It's not events focused on the main character that's the issue, but rather silly events to make characters important when it's simply contrived after awhile. Again, it's that things don't quite line up in a way that makes sense for the plot. IE, you have Titania, the second in command of the Greil Mercenaries not being in command after the first is slain despite that being the entire point of a 2nd in command. Instead Ike, the main character, is put in charge of the Greil Mercenaries despite the fact that he's not only the least experienced person on the team, but just the day before Titania was giving him orders. That's goofy as hell. Events like that transpire around Ike constantly in Fire Emblem 9. Us seeing Ike's father die from BK makes sense in the context because he's the main character of the story. Base events following Ike make sense if he's the main character. Ever played Yggdra Union for instance? It has a similar story to PoR at base, and even it knows that as important as Milanor at first, it's not going to try to make him the main hero of the story. It's why I even brought up Marth as an example. He's an example of a character done right for that. Ike is more comparable to Lyndis in this regard for PoR. It'd be like going out of your way to make Lyndis important in Blazing Sword. Hell, they even do this in RD with Ike. It's clear that they should be co-protagonist, but the game simply doesn't care about Micaiah once Ike comes on the scene, even having silly things like saying that only Ike can defeat Ashera because...? The same sort of contrivances we're talking about.

It's an example of bathos. It's so ridiculous that it becomes anticlimactic because we can't even get a real understanding of why he does it. And what's weird is that they have another branded that's an asshole that demonstrates that you can make an asshole likable and even have a fanbase: Soren.

But is it? Yeah. It's pretty bad. Haha.

[Luchi]

tl,dr; IS were just massive Ike fanboys who tried too hard to make him important in a game that was really about Ellie and Ashnard. Anyway...

New gameplay video up.