Cipher Series 8: April 20 - Promo Chrom in Dengeki Nintendo!

[Prince of Iris]

Has there been any confirmation that this set is strictly gen 1 of FE13, or were they also planning cards for the kids in outfits from the destroyed future?

Artwork of Owain was revealed in the most recent livestream, so this set is definitely not strictly the first generation characters.

[Jugdral Defender]

Artwork of Owain was revealed in the most recent livestream, so this set is definitely not strictly the first generation characters.

Ah, I think I've seen that one! I wasn't sure if it was for set eight or not though and I don't remember where I saw it because I've only really paid attention to FE4 gen 2 releases my bad. That's good to know though. I'm more fond of gen 2 in FE13 so I'll be looking forward to the kid characters. :3

[Jugdral Defender]

Artwork of Owain was revealed in the most recent livestream, so this set is definitely not strictly the first generation characters.

Ah, I think I've seen that one! I wasn't sure if it was for set eight or not though and I don't remember where I saw it because I've only really paid attention to FE4 gen 2 releases my bad. That's good to know though. I'm more fond of gen 2 in FE13 so I'll be looking forward to the kid characters. :3

Edit: Can a mod delete that double for me please? Internet dun goofed.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Jugdral Defender

[SalShich10N]

I'm referring more to the fact that if you're talking "villain", Manfloy would be essentially, logically, getting that seat. Yurius is TECHNICALLY a villain though possessed, so he's in the same category as Lyon (presumably by dialogue was a sweet kid and went batshit from possession). Alvis was never a villain but he's an antagonist, and the "main" antagonist in gen 1 (and ultimately Manfloy is the legit main villain/antagonist behind the scenes in gen 1 too).

Basically I do feel Manfloy should get at least SOMETHING even if it's not this set. Some set in the future maybe, but he has such a ridiculously heavy impact on the plot and even Celice completely acknowledges that fact if you have Celice fight him in the final chapter. I feel like it's a bit of a waste not to include him at all.

Tbh I kind of want a set with like... ALL villains from every FE game but that might be way too much wishful thinking.

Slightly about something else so under a spoiler tag.

The Cipher sets are favoring FE13/14 because they're newer and what gave them obnoxious sums of money. They couldn't base an entire TCG on two games though, so they kind of littered everything else along the way and are (still) repeatedly milking everything they can out of 13/14. I'm actually really glad they're chilling out on that for set nine. Kind of odd that they'd do cards for manga characters who aren't even canon to the games, but aiight. Tellius is getting doubled for set nine and I am a-okay with that.

Thing is that Julius is twin brother to Julia, the reincarnation of Lopt, and Seliph's little brother which is the slasa that spices the story. Malfoy is just wrinkled old dude that shows up sometimes to mess things up. Same reason why Alvis got the card and not Reptor or other forgettable, yet important, boss in FE4.

Who knows, maybe a set with all the Gharnef archetypes is not too far fetched, given set 9 is going to be a potpourri of colors. Maybe the last remaining color is instead a collection of villains.

And about your spoiler, I also suspected that, but I tired to be a bit more subtle about it. Picture this, they released FE4 cipher cards as well as VC releases of FE4 and FE5 shortly after Kaga tried to make his return with his "This is totally not Fire Emblem, guys" Freeware game. There is slight chance FE4 is getting love as means to rub it on Kaga's wounds.

[The Geek]

What do you think the chances are that there'll be any cards of replacement characters?

[Jariu]

Ya' all collector only guys are bafflingly blind to the game's actual landscape nowadays.

Back in Set 1 to 3 with parts of 4 yes popularity and the like pushed most of the things there, but while that is very much important to the game it has progressed to actually take gameplay-focused decitions; while you look at the cards by how pretty they are in the binders you forget they actually do things in the game, because this is a cardgame, and in this effects they have been working to fix and balance the issues that sprouted form said early sets alongside doing what they can to keep the game fun and interesting to people who PLAY IT.

This means that, between other things, they will NOT just abandon a color. As more colors appear it'll logically mean the space between releases of certain colors will come more and more apart (A whole year since the last Blue set by example), but they are still going to get more cards a far a the game keeps releasing sets and time goes on; and as more sets release more characters will begin to be added. While the most popular ones are going to take priority for obvious reasons as the collector market of Cipher is an extremely huge driving force (Cipher in a year and a half already has the higuest overall art budget of all the japanese TCGs I'm aware of easily displayed in it's quantity, quality and variety) the game has been able to evolve into having an actual spot as a game rather than just a bunch of cards with pretty things on them.

In short: Yeah you goddamn favorite character is going to get an art EVENTUALLY, you just stay sit because the game is starting to become busy being a game and not jsut an excuse for you to egt art of characters which by proxy means colors won't get abandoned simply because they aren't popular or they are too old.
The only thing with a chance of being abandoned is TMS as far as they don't get a sequel, and even then as far as the game lives on they'll get support simply by cards appearing due to how the game works.

[SalShich10N]

The way ya' all collector only guys are blind to the game's actual landscape nowadays is baffling.

Back in Set 1 to 3 with parts of 4 yes popularity and the like pushed most of the things there, but while that is very much important to the game it has progressed to actually take gameplay-oriented decisions; while you look at the cards by how pretty they are in the binders you forget they actually do things in the game, because this is a cardgame, and in this effects they have been working to fix and balance the issues that sprouted form said early sets alongside doing what they can to keep the game fun and interesting to people who PLAY IT.

This means that, between other things, they will NOT just abandon a color. As more colors appear it'll logically mean the space between releases of certain colors will come more and more apart (A whole year since the last Blue set by example), but they are still going to get more cards a far a the game keeps releasing sets and time goes on; and as more sets release more characters will begin to be added. While the most popular ones are going to take priority for obvious reasons as the collector market of Cipher is an extremely huge driving force (Cipher in a year and a half already has the highest overall art budget of all the japanese TCGs I'm aware of easily displayed in it's quantity, quality and variety) the game has been able to evolve into having an actual spot as a game rather than just a bunch of cards with pretty things on them.

In short: Yeah you goddamn favorite character is going to get an art EVENTUALLY, you just stay sit because the game is starting to become busy being a game and not just an excuse for you to get art of characters which by proxy means colors won't get abandoned simply because they aren't popular or they are too old.

The only thing with a chance of being abandoned is TMS as far as they don't get a sequel, and even then as far as the game lives on they'll get support simply by cards appearing due to how the game works.

What are exactly you replying to, what said did you had in mind? Are the characters chosen impact the game that much?

But as you said, the importing collector market is a large driving force, and such the aesthetics of the game take a very high priority. Hell cipher is one of the few card games that guarantee you a foil card in every booster pack. Cipher is not the type of game that will take preference between appealing to players or collectors, but rather will attempt at all times to please both. I'm not sure how big the actual scene for Cipher is in japan, but I always fear that the game itself is a brittle project that will be discontinued if the hardcore fans and collectors lose interest. I just wonder how many japanese players are not fans of Fire Emblem at all.

So you bet your ass many, many decisions are and will be taken with popularity, importance and collectors in mind, as well as player base. Never forget that one of the big reasons why they chose a Vanguard-like formula for the game is so every card in the game is a character, as opposed to the old TCG or the Pokemon TCG. That way anyone who just wants to buy cipher cards for the novelty of it will be pleased with what they get.

[Kyokko]

I'm not sure how big the actual scene for Cipher is in japan, but I always fear that the game itself is a brittle project that will be discontinued if the hardcore fans and collectors lose interest. I just wonder how many japanese players are not fans of Fire Emblem at all.

I can't answer for everyone in Japan, but the group I play with is mixed. There are a few who are longtime fans of the series, like myself, a few who have only played since Awakening or Fates, and a few who didn't play the video games before the card game and were either intrigued by it or dragged in by friends who were series fans. I think that series fans significantly outnumber people who are only card game players, but quite a few of those fans were already card game players before Cipher was released. All of the big Cipher events are designed so that people who do not play the card game, but are Fire Emblem fans, can also enjoy themselves - mini concerts, Cipher teaching areas, last year's Cipher Sai had a 100 Poems karuta game area and artist signing events, etc. I haven't attended a general Cipher koryukai party event, but I have attended two of the ladies-only luncheon ones. Both of them were also set up in a way that was inclusive of people who are Fire Emblem fans, even if they haven't played Cipher. We played a game of bingo using the names of the favorite Fire Emblem characters of people we mingled with, etc.

I'd say that about half of the card shops in Den Den Town in Osaka carry Cipher cards. It's not quite on the level of the major TCGs, but it's not terribly obscure. When I first started playing Cipher instead of just collecting cards during Series 2, there were usually 8-12 people at the local weekly Cipher card shop tournament. I think that only two of them have quit playing Cipher entirely. While the weekly attendance numbers have gone down a bit, everyone still tries to make it when they can. There were five of us who went to the card shop the night before Series 7 came out to break the street date and open our boxes together.

One of the interesting things about Cipher is the large amount of female players. In Osaka, I think there are four or five ladies-only tournaments a month, with the biggest card shops in the city each holding one a month. The one I used to attend usually had 16-20 ladies attend it each month. This is why Cipher sometimes hosts ladies-only events and usually has ladies-only Cipher areas at their large events.

The sentiment among the group I play with is that Cipher is well run and Producer Kawade is very respectful of the players. Like you mentioned, each pack has a foil card and all of the cards are characters. In addition, the actual cards themselves are thicker and higher quality than some other TCG cards, such as MtG and Pokemon. Someone once mentioned to me that they really appreciated the way that many artists have card illustrations of all rarities. The example he used was the Series 4 Yumina cards. Apparently, that artist is so well-known that the illustrations that they do for other TCGs always have a high rarity.

I also believe that Cipher decisions are largely gameplay-oriented. Sure, lots of characters on cards are determined by general fan popularity, but all of the skills they have are created in a way to keep the game fairly balanced. The most expensive non-promo cards are actually the ones that are the most valuable in a deck. For example, Nino is the most expensive Series 7 SR not because she is popular waifu bait, but because she returns a copy of your main character to your hand for no bond cost each turn she's out. Did Nino get an SR because she's a popular character? Probably. Is Nino's card valuable BECAUSE Nino's a popular character? No. She's one of the best support units currently in the game. Are Deidre and Lilina valuable because they're popular? No, they're valuable because they're designed to be anti-Nowi cards, since Nowi was so useful in the game that most decks included her up to that point. In essence, it's not the collectors who drive the market for Cipher cards here, but the players. I think that's part of what Jariu is trying to say.

In short, Cipher in Japan:

brittle - No

likely to be discontinued - Not at this point in time. I think there is a decent overlap between Fire Emblem fans and TCG fans. While there are people who simply collect, Cipher is very accommodating and goes out of its way to try to make it easy to get into. For each series, there are a series of beginner lesson events set up by Cipher staff in several major cities, in addition to the card shops that are set up by Cipher with materials so that shop employees can also teach newcomers when there aren't official Cipher lessons. Ladies-only tournaments exist in several major cities for women who feel uncomfortable attending regular tournaments. Producer Kawade has expressed an intent to cover every game in the series, provided that interest in Cipher remains.

On topic: Guidebook 7 has a page in the back with sample artwork and a bit of information from Series 8. None of the artwork is new, but it says that there will be a holographic marker card in addition to the Series 9 promo and the sleeves in each Series 8 box.

[Draxal]

Always appreciate the feedback on the scene in Japan, as well this place is America(S)/Euro/Austraila dominated.

I do think Cipher needs new starter set, as some of these starters are now old.

[TheVinceKnight]

Always appreciate the feedback on the scene in Japan, as well this place is America(S)/Euro/Austraila dominated.

I do think Cipher needs new starter set, as some of these starters are now old.

Australia dominated he says. The two people here in the forums from Australia are dominating Serenes? Or is it just me :p

I wouldn't mind a new starter deck in Series 8, but based off Series 7, I don't really see it happening.

I also believe that Cipher decisions are largely gameplay-oriented. Sure, lots of characters on cards are determined by general fan popularity, but all of the skills they have are created in a way to keep the game fairly balanced. The most expensive non-promo cards are actually the ones that are the most valuable in a deck. For example, Nino is the most expensive Series 7 SR not because she is popular waifu bait, but because she returns a copy of your main character to your hand for no bond cost each turn she's out. Did Nino get an SR because she's a popular character? Probably. Is Nino's card valuable BECAUSE Nino's a popular character? No. She's one of the best support units currently in the game. Are Deidre and Lilina valuable because they're popular? No, they're valuable because they're designed to be anti-Nowi cards, since Nowi was so useful in the game that most decks included her up to that point. In essence, it's not the collectors who drive the market for Cipher cards here, but the players. I think that's part of what Jariu is trying to say.

Deirdre is popular more-so to the fact that she unflips a bond, which helps with a lot of decks (especially Female Corrin). Unflipping a bond is already advantage, which is done by the moment you place Deirdre on the field (well, during the end of the turn).

I'm pretty sure they're catering to as much things as they can - note that they can't please everyone at once, so we should all be patient, especially if there's a specific character that you wanted to see a card for and did not get one.

[Flamy]

Australia dominated he says. The two people here in the forums from Australia are dominating Serenes? Or is it just me :p

yeah

remove aussies etc etc

The way I see it, right now, they want to make cards of characters people know/care about, but also cards that are also playable in the game as it is.

We can see this in Kaze, Chilling Storm, which has the ability to increase the cost of all cards in your opponent's Retreat by 1. The only characters concerned with costs that target cards in your Retreat are Midoriko, Corrin Female, Briggid, and Lena. Corrin Female had been a threat to the metagame for quite some time, while Lena is an essential part of Marth, who had gotten stronger with the addition of Marth, Hero-King of Light. Notable also is that Kaze, Chilling Storm, is a HN card, and not R or SR. It should also be noted that we did not get very many good splashable cost-3 Nohr cards in that set, aside from Arete, Queen of Nohr, Beruka, The Deadly, and, a little ironically, Kaze, Chilling Storm, and of those three, only a few players, from my experience, use Arete, Queen of Nohr. They must have recognized that Female Corrin was now a force to be reckoned with, now that she had Corrin Female, Godly Child of the Final Light Flame, and to give her more powerful cards for her to deploy would be tantamount to killing the metagame.

Thus, I am in agreement with Jariu.

[ChibiToastExplosion]

Of course they focus on the gameplay, none of us disputed that.

But, they can give a lot of these skills to any character they please. Nino got the broken skill, but there is nothing about that skill that says Nino had to have it. Some characters do have skills that only they could really have, but for the most part they can balance the game with other characters, they just choose to reprint the same characters with different skills.

Long after game has stopped being played, those of us hunting for the pretty pictures will still be hunting for the pretty pictures.

I'm glad the game is healthy, that gives us time for them to shit or get off the pot regarding Sacred Stones

[SalShich10N]

In short, Cipher in Japan:

brittle - No

likely to be discontinued - Not at this point in time. I think there is a decent overlap between Fire Emblem fans and TCG fans. While there are people who simply collect, Cipher is very accommodating and goes out of its way to try to make it easy to get into. For each series, there are a series of beginner lesson events set up by Cipher staff in several major cities, in addition to the card shops that are set up by Cipher with materials so that shop employees can also teach newcomers when there aren't official Cipher lessons. Ladies-only tournaments exist in several major cities for women who feel uncomfortable attending regular tournaments. Producer Kawade has expressed an intent to cover every game in the series, provided that interest in Cipher remains.

Well, that answers a few questions, it's nice to see that the game is very healthy. I still worry a bit about the future, though. You guys see interest surviving until 2019? I'm sure Sacred Stones and maybe Thracia and Gaiden will have their set next year. Lets hope a new game, be it Mobile or an actual new game revitalize the series.

But the game being popular with the ladies, now that's a surprise. It certainly explains this phenomenon that caught my eye last stream:

The filename of this picture in my folder is "Canas vs Niime"

Guess Fire Emblem has always been full of pretty boys, eh?

While it's nice Ryouta Kawade is a benevolent figure for Cipher as the producer, part of me wants him to go back and make Paper Mario great again.

[Kirie]

Hey, it's been a while since we've had any S8 news, hasn't it? There's not a whole lot to share yet, but Cipher Sai information has now been revealed, and two of the marker cards shown off feature S8 art. One of them is Risen King Chrom and the other is (I believe new?) artwork of Seliph. Check them out below!

I'll make a separate thread for the Cipher Sai merch.

Edited January 20, 2017 by Kirie

[Prince of Iris]

Seliph looks great!

[TheVinceKnight]

9 hours ago, Prince of Iris said:

Seliph looks great!

I think Chrom also looks 'great'.

But yeah I agree. Seliph looks cool.

[SalShich10N]

On 1/20/2017 at 2:09 AM, Kirie said:

 

23 hours ago, TheVinceKnight said:

I think Chrom also looks 'great'.

But yeah I agree. Seliph looks cool.

I dunno I feel it looks a bit stiff, certainly Wada has done better in Cipher. I prefer Kita Senri's take on Seliph for the R+X. This is probably the equivalent of that X card and it might end up being either an N or an R. I wonder if Sachiko will also handle the SR or SR+. I bet the SR+s will be a panorama of Seliph and Julia versus Julius drawn by Rika Suzuki

[Kirie]

I think this card is probably an N. It seems like the friendlier cards end up being the lower rarities and just look how happy Seliph is leading that charge.

[TheVinceKnight]

15 minutes ago, Kirie said:

I think this card is probably an N. It seems like the friendlier cards end up being the lower rarities and just look how happy Seliph is leading that charge.

We had a R+X of Seliph in Series 6
We also have art of Seliph as a Junior Lord, which in no doubt is his Cost 1 Unit
This card is him as a Knight Lord, and they wouldn't show off Seliph SR so early so therefore it must be the middle card
I think the image had B08-052 in the link before but they changed it

>tl;dr it's SeliphR

Edited January 22, 2017 by TheVinceKnight

[Kirie]

Fair enough. :P This is what I get for using flavour to try and determine things.

[SalShich10N]

7 hours ago, TheVinceKnight said:

We had a R+X of Seliph in Series 6
We also have art of Seliph as a Junior Lord, which in no doubt is his Cost 1 Unit
This card is him as a Knight Lord, and they wouldn't show off Seliph SR so early so therefore it must be the middle card
I think the image had B08-052 in the link before but they changed it

>tl;dr it's SeliphR

It might be an N. I still think Eliwood's R+X was originally intended to be an N judging by the way those have the borders of N/HN cards but foiled. I hope Seliph doesn't get an R and SR like Eliwood did...

[Kirie]

It's practically confirmed at this point that Seliph will be the same as Eliwood in terms of card prints. The R in the booster series gives them a better card to make up for the lack of an ST exclusive promotion. (There's a slight chance that it may be different with Roy in S9*, so I guess we'll see, but it wouldn't be surprising at all if that were just the standard model going forward for all Lords with R+X decks.)

(* - I'm wondering if Roy might just get an R based off of his R+X and not an SR at all in S9. It doesn't seem like FE6 is supposed to be a big focus, after all, especially with SoV getting in. Should be interesting either way. Man I can't wait to get more news...)

[TheVinceKnight]

7 hours ago, SalShich10N said:

It might be an N. I still think Eliwood's R+X was originally intended to be an N judging by the way those have the borders of N/HN cards but foiled. I hope Seliph doesn't get an R and SR like Eliwood did...

I think it's just that way on purpose to make R+X actually feel special to have. Note that a N card would not have a decent effect like EliwoodR (R+X) does.

[SalShich10N]

4 hours ago, Kirie said:

It's practically confirmed at this point that Seliph will be the same as Eliwood in terms of card prints. The R in the booster series gives them a better card to make up for the lack of an ST exclusive promotion. (There's a slight chance that it may be different with Roy in S9*, so I guess we'll see, but it wouldn't be surprising at all if that were just the standard model going forward for all Lords with R+X decks.)

(* - I'm wondering if Roy might just get an R based off of his R+X and not an SR at all in S9. It doesn't seem like FE6 is supposed to be a big focus, after all, especially with SoV getting in. Should be interesting either way. Man I can't wait to get more news...)

Ohhh right, the lack of an ST+, I didn't consider that. At least I hope Tinny (Tine?) get an R this time around to make up for the lack of foiled Tailtiu last time.

As for set 9, I'm guessing it's gonna be 25 cards for Manga only 10 people read, 25 cards for filthy subhumans and 50 cards for shilling the new game. They can't pass up the opportunity to capitalize on the new game's release, I also expect an starter deck for SoV. The question is if they'll be red cards or an entirely new color?

Edited January 23, 2017 by SalShich10N

[Flamy]

1 hour ago, SalShich10N said:

They can't pass up the opportunity to capitalize on the new game's release, I also expect an starter deck for SoV. The question is if they'll be red cards or an entirely new color?

Of course it's gonna be more Falchion cards. I mean, how else would Falchion keep itself fully upright?