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WinterOkami

Xander and Ryoma.

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So far I have been wondering really who is the best and I am confused. Basically my standards are based on strength, style but also from appearance {Because I see a lot of memes about Xander being handsome and attractive and not Ryoma. }. Just being a little curious because it feels like you can simply not choose because they are all too awesome.

Anyways, who do you prefer in personality, strength, style but also appearance?

Edited by WinterOkami

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Personality-wise, Xander is two different people, having one main story version and one support variant.

In the main story, Xander is a villain in 2.5 paths. He's got no moral compass, backbone or leadership skills to speak of. He's a coward and an opportunist who only cares about being able to sleep at night; he's willing to invade an entire nation and stand by as thousands of people are being slaughtered even though he should be the first to stand up to that sort of thing. Unlike Hetzel, who gets metaphorically flogged for his inaction, Xander has got plenty of allies and his own personal power to rely on, yet he not only stands by, but takes an active part in ensuring the tragedies occur, making him far worse than Hetzel ever was, yet he's treated as a hero in the game. It's disgusting, and I'm appalled that they'd think I'd like as bad a person as Xander.

However, in his supports, he's very well written. He's portrayed as a silent, serious yet caring crown prince with a lot of responsibilities weighing him down, yet he still takes the time to bond with his troops. He's got an interesting background as revealed by his supports with Leo and Sakura, and you get a sense of who he is, what he wants and what bothers him. Extra points for having the only good sibling support with Corrin; we needed more like that and less of...whatever you call Camilla's support with them.

In terms of supports, Ryouma doesn't even get close to beating Xander. However, in the main story, Ryouma is much better - maybe because he's completely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

As for strengths, I prefer having a reliable tank, honestly. Although I might not have been able to beat Birthright Lunatic without Ryouma + Lancebreaker. Hm.

Appearance-wise, Xander wins that one as well. I...can't take Ryouma seriously. His design clashes with his personality - he's supposed to be a serious and simple man, but he's wearing bloody lobster armor? Why?!

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...Yeah, they dropped the ball, popped it and threw it in the trash when it came to Xander's characterization.

It honestly comes down to whose supports I prefer because both of the eldest brothers are kind of doodoo butter in the main story to varying degrees—Xander apparently doesn't have a good grasp of his own self (he probably needs to accept his Shadow), while Ryoma is literally irrelevant to the story outside of that brief game of Where's Ryoma? in BR and stabbing himself in the balls during CQ. If I had to choose, I would choose Xander because I felt his batch of supports gave him more development than Ryoma's supports did with him.

Design wise, Xander all the way. I agree with Thane when it comes to the designs—Ryoma's design is inconsistent with his personality. I personally feel that being able to immediately pull out details of their backstory and personality without actually knowing anything of the character is a sign of having a good design and pose.

That's just me, however—and I will admit that can't be done with all characters.

Unit wise... Xander. I will never forgive Ryoma for getting killed by a 5% hit from an outlaw.

What happened to the hype, Ryoma!? What happened to you being OP!? You're supposed to dodge everything!

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...Yeah, they dropped the ball, popped it and threw it in the trash when it came to Xander's characterization.

It honestly comes down to whose supports I prefer because both of the eldest brothers are kind of doodoo butter in the main story to varying degrees—Xander apparently doesn't have a good grasp of his own self (he probably needs to accept his Shadow), while Ryoma is literally irrelevant to the story outside of that brief game of Where's Ryoma? in BR and stabbing himself in the balls during CQ. If I had to choose, I would choose Xander because I felt his batch of supports gave him more development than Ryoma's supports did with him.

Design wise, Xander all the way. I agree with Thane when it comes to the designs—Ryoma's design is inconsistent with his personality. I personally feel that being able to immediately pull out details of their backstory and personality without actually knowing anything of the character is a sign of having a good design and pose.

That's just me, however—and I will admit that can't be done with all characters.

Unit wise... Xander. I will never forgive Ryoma for getting killed by a 5% hit from an outlaw.

What happened to the hype, Ryoma!? What happened to you being OP!? You're supposed to dodge everything!

Personality-wise, Xander is two different people, having one main story version and one support variant.

In the main story, Xander is a villain in 2.5 paths. He's got no moral compass, backbone or leadership skills to speak of. He's a coward and an opportunist who only cares about being able to sleep at night; he's willing to invade an entire nation and stand by as thousands of people are being slaughtered even though he should be the first to stand up to that sort of thing. Unlike Hetzel, who gets metaphorically flogged for his inaction, Xander has got plenty of allies and his own personal power to rely on, yet he not only stands by, but takes an active part in ensuring the tragedies occur, making him far worse than Hetzel ever was, yet he's treated as a hero in the game. It's disgusting, and I'm appalled that they'd think I'd like as bad a person as Xander.

However, in his supports, he's very well written. He's portrayed as a silent, serious yet caring crown prince with a lot of responsibilities weighing him down, yet he still takes the time to bond with his troops. He's got an interesting background as revealed by his supports with Leo and Sakura, and you get a sense of who he is, what he wants and what bothers him. Extra points for having the only good sibling support with Corrin; we needed more like that and less of...whatever you call Camilla's support with them.

In terms of supports, Ryouma doesn't even get close to beating Xander. However, in the main story, Ryouma is much better - maybe because he's completely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

As for strengths, I prefer having a reliable tank, honestly. Although I might not have been able to beat Birthright Lunatic without Ryouma + Lancebreaker. Hm.

Appearance-wise, Xander wins that one as well. I...can't take Ryouma seriously. His design clashes with his personality - he's supposed to be a serious and simple man, but he's wearing bloody lobster armor? Why?!

So basically Ryoma was poorly used and looks like a lobster hence why he is a bit less dashing, right ? I get it however I believe the reason we picture Ryoma as a lobster is because of the internet. In my first run Ryoma looked alright to me, as intimidating as Xander then I came to the internet and learned about the legendary Lobster-Crit Lord. So maybe it's just a weird impression. Still you make it sound both sound as if he is irrelevant to the story and that his personality is less impressive than Xander's. Okay but taking in consideration that most of the Royals got depressed with Corrin's kidnapping aren't there any supports surrounding Ryoma's past aside from him being jealous of Kamui-sama for being a better king than him because seriously it seems like each King had a better successor, Xander having Leo who could have been better than him had he not gotten intimidated and Corrin with Ryoma ?

Ryouma in general. Not because I particularly like him, but because I hate Xander.

Is it because he killed Elise ?

Edited by WinterOkami

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Is it because he killed Elise ?

... I would've hoped it was obvious that I hate Xander for all the reasons Thane listed. He's an awful, selfish character who has no business being a hero, but the game thinks that he's heroic for some reason and he basically gets away with doing what Hetzel in RD was lambasted for.

I hate Elise, too.

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... I would've hoped it was obvious that I hate Xander for all the reasons Thane listed. He's an awful, selfish character who has no business being a hero, but the game thinks that he's heroic for some reason and he basically gets away with doing what Hetzel in RD was lambasted for.

I hate Elise, too.

I'd say he does even worse than Hetzel considering he's in a better position to do something yet takes an active part in making sure the bad things happen, whereas Hetzel was one lone man who was paralyzed by fear.

But don't worry! Xander apologized to all the people who were butchered because of him like, twice in his head. He doesn't really like invading innocent nations to please daddy dearest - it just sort of happened, so that makes it okay!

Edited by Thane

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well, granted, Ryoma's the leader of the army and all, right? or is Yukimura not the simple tactician but general? but yea, as a commanding officer, he's gotta stand out and increase morale of troops

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well, granted, Ryoma's the leader of the army and all, right? or is Yukimura not the simple tactician but general? but yea, as a commanding officer, he's gotta stand out and increase morale of troops

I know nothing gets me going quite like a man in shining red armor that makes him look like seafood.

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So basically Ryoma was poorly used and looks like a lobster hence why he is a bit less dashing, right ? I get it however I believe the reason we picture Ryoma as a lobster is because of the internet. In my first run Ryoma looked alright to me, as intimidating as Xander then I came to the internet and learned about the legendary Lobster-Crit Lord. So maybe it's just a weird impression. Still you make it sound both sound as if he is irrelevant to the story and that his personality is less impressive than Xander's. Okay but taking in consideration that most of the Royals got depressed with Corrin's kidnapping aren't there any supports surrounding Ryoma's past aside from him being jealous of Kamui-sama for being a better king than him because seriously it seems like each King had a better successor, Xander having Leo who could have been better than him had he not gotten intimidated and Corrin with Ryoma ?

1.) It isn't so much the lobster meme. I'm not even talking about that. And, again, this is personal opinion, so be aware of that when I'm explaining.

When looking at Ryoma's design, I got the impression that he was a hot-headed, impatient, eccentric and, yes, fierce individual. This is just going by looking at some of his official art and mainly by scrutinizing his hair and the colors used in his design. The red, in particular. Red is a very bold color that is meant to draw the eyes, especially when its contrasting color is white. However, this is opposite of what we know of Ryoma's personality.

In reality, Ryoma is a character that is quite calm and collected. He is surprisingly wise, level-headed and charismatic, able to get along with his soldiers well. He is also a person that takes his duty as high prince very seriously.

Now, that isn't to say his design is bad, it just sent off conflicting signals about his personality. That's why I prefer the Lobster design on his father. While we know little of Sumeragi, we can gather from the little we have that he was a grand, intimidating person that enjoyed battle; he comes off as the things I initially thought Ryoma would be.

Again, most of that is my personal interpretation. And, again, just going off of a design is in no way a surefire way to tell a character's personality.

2.) To be fair, just about all of the royal siblings felt irrelevant to the main story. Even Corrin and Azura felt irrelevant to the main story. I can't quite put my finger on why, though.

But, I suppose that, yes, I did find that Xander had more to his personality than Ryoma did. I will admit, however, that I could be blinded by bias.

Edited by SaiSymbolic

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2.) To be fair, just about all of the royal siblings felt irrelevant to the main story. Even Corrin and Azura felt irrelevant to the main story. I can't quite put my finger on why, though.

If you'll all forgive me for spamming this thread and going a bit off topic, I'd like to respond to this, as I find it an interesting opinion.

I think Azura and Corrin feeling a bit meaningless in the main story is because, aside from it all taking place according to some prophecy, meaning it's all guaranteed to happen even if the player doesn't do anything, very few goals are actually reached during the adventure. Sure, you meet up with your siblings, but that's not exactly a goal Corrin or Azura achieve as much as it is the logical conclusion of what's going on in the story, and we all knew it would happen anyway. Most of the time the protagonists just walk along a seemingly linear line, something happens, they fight, then they move on as if on-rails to the final destintion.

Really, I can't stress that enough. Corrin doesn't mention things like supplies, planning, logistics, manpower, morale or anything like that. They just trod along and win battle after battle without growing as a character or learning new things. Things just happen around them. Azura, in turn, just exists to spout exposition and explain what's necessary to move things along.

In conclusion, if there's no chemistry between the characters or no agency or meaning to their actions, they feel superfluous. At least, that'd be my take on it.

Edited by Thane

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I really like Xander a lot more than I do Ryoma. Xander also isn't as broken as Ryoma. I can't solo one side of the map with Xander like I can with Ryoma. I seem to like all the Nohrian Royals more than I do the Hoshidan Royals. I think the only Hoshidan Royal I really like is Hinoka (hence why the avatar married her in my last Birthright run).

Edited by MeddlingMage

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I like them both. Yeah even as characters (deal with it). I dont actually see one as better than the other, except Xander is just more attractive to me in terms of appearance.

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Why not both? Have them A+ each other, and switch classes. I think Xander pulls it off better than Ryoma, though.

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1.) It isn't so much the lobster meme. I'm not even talking about that. And, again, this is personal opinion, so be aware of that when I'm explaining.

When looking at Ryoma's design, I got the impression that he was a hot-headed, impatient, eccentric and, yes, fierce individual. This is just going by looking at some of his official art and mainly by scrutinizing his hair and the colors used in his design. The red, in particular. Red is a very bold color that is meant to draw the eyes, especially when its contrasting color is white. However, this is opposite of what we know of Ryoma's personality.

In reality, Ryoma is a character that is quite calm and collected. He is surprisingly wise, level-headed and charismatic, able to get along with his soldiers well. He is also a person that takes his duty as high prince very seriously.

Now, that isn't to say his design is bad, it just sent off conflicting signals about his personality. That's why I prefer the Lobster design on his father. While we know little of Sumeragi, we can gather from the little we have that he was a grand, intimidating person that enjoyed battle; he comes off as the things I initially thought Ryoma would be.

Again, most of that is my personal interpretation. And, again, just going off of a design is in no way a surefire way to tell a character's personality.

Ryoma is actually pretty fucking reckless if you look at his actions rather than his words, though. I won't say his characterization is perfectly done, but he's a lot more complex than what people give him credit for. On the surface level, sure, he makes himself come across as calm and has his shit together, but looking at his actions in more depth (Chevalier was a calculated risk but still a pretty big risk that paid off, his behavior in Nohr exemplifies when shit's not going his way and he's losing control of the situation, and it's very different than what he puts up in Hoshido route, also he's actually pretty prone to picking fights)

Ryoma is a juxaposition of calm and fire. I don't want to write another essay about why he's the way he is, but to leave Ryoma's personality at "calm an collected" is a very surface-level reading of him.

Tbh the more I draw Ryoma the more I love his hair. Kozaki's style is quite different from mine, and I tend to have a more realistic style, so drawing his hair softer in a more semi-realistic style helps reinforce the lion's mane motif the designers wanted, and it's actually quite majestic.

I mean, hell, this is the guy who once said along the lines of "I'm more attractive than he is".

Edited by Thor Odinson

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Ryoma by far. I couldn't stand Xander in BR. Lobster Lord is a real bro and all around decent guy, and I love his lobster-like design.

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Big name popularity polls say Xander every time, if you're just looking for a general opinion or feel of the fanbase overall.

Personally, I'm inclined to agree. I don't dislike Ryoma, but I prefer Xander's character, looks, and unit build to his.

Edited by blinkingbrave

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As a unit, I prefer Xander.

As a character, I hate him. His supports are good, but he's made to be a total bitch to his father's will in two routes, one of which he had even more ability to so something about the war he doesn't agree with. Then to top it off, he says 'justice is a lie'.

I'm sure it's more the fault of a poorly written story than the character just because nothing else about Xander's persona give off Hetzel vibes.

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If we're comparing Conquest!Xander to Birthright!Ryoma, then... they'd actually be tied in terms of personality. Xander really shows his caring side in his supports with his royal siblings, especially with Corrin during their childhood. He really tackles the issues of being the crown prince of Nohr well with all the responsibility he has over the people. Ryoma is also great in how he sees the good in most things, especially shown in the chapter where Shura is recruited. I did like how he thought of Azura as his sister in the supports and the main story, and the A supports for his royal siblings left me smiling for the most part.

But in gameplay? Please, Ryoma all the way. Was that even a contest?

Note that I did specify the route for each guy. Fuck Birthright!Xander. Hated him from after the decision was made when he attacked Corrin. Got even more ridiculous from there.

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I prefer Xander. His characterization is way stronger across the board in my opinion, which is likely a result of Nohr's position as an antagonist lead by the efforts of Garon. I actually greatly appreciated the fact that he didn't magically wake up one morning and try and rebel, since his past love of his father before the corruption and enduring love of his country would never allow that.

Ryoma was by no means bad, but the absence of any serious internal battles means he's just a good-natured leader/sibling. I kind of wish they'd had him clash more with Takumi, as it would have justified other plot developments a bit more, and given him some much needed personality flaws.

Statwise I prefer Xander as well, not because he's better, but because he isn't. It always kind of annoys me when you get story related characters and they just blow out regular team members in terms of usefulness, and while Xander is an amazing unit he has definite faults and doesn't really eclipse other options like Ryoma does.

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Thanks for letting me know how you all felt about this. I think now I'll say I prefer Xander as a character in personality but Ryoma as a unit. because you can never go wrong with a lightning katana wielding lobster am I right ?

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I don't dislike Ryoma, but like most of the other Hoshidan siblings, he is a bit more forgettable. I do hate his armor and hair though. I always thought he was less calm/ more reckless than Xander, but then you read Ryoma's supports and it's a totally different story.

I like most things about Xander, so I don't need to go into detail.

Now, as to who would win in a fight, stats notwithstanding, it would probably be a tie. Though, I feel like Ryoma has a ton of natural talent, whereas Xander had to train his posterior off and even needed a power boost from the Rainbow Sage to catch up to Ryoma.

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Ryoma is actually pretty fucking reckless if you look at his actions rather than his words, though. I won't say his characterization is perfectly done, but he's a lot more complex than what people give him credit for. On the surface level, sure, he makes himself come across as calm and has his shit together, but looking at his actions in more depth (Chevalier was a calculated risk but still a pretty big risk that paid off, his behavior in Nohr exemplifies when shit's not going his way and he's losing control of the situation, and it's very different than what he puts up in Hoshido route, also he's actually pretty prone to picking fights)

Ryoma is a juxaposition of calm and fire. I don't want to write another essay about why he's the way he is, but to leave Ryoma's personality at "calm an collected" is a very surface-level reading of him.

Tbh the more I draw Ryoma the more I love his hair. Kozaki's style is quite different from mine, and I tend to have a more realistic style, so drawing his hair softer in a more semi-realistic style helps reinforce the lion's mane motif the designers wanted, and it's actually quite majestic.

I mean, hell, this is the guy who once said along the lines of "I'm more attractive than he is".

Agreed. Ryoma's all about meditation and having all the chill but in actuality he does it because he's reckless as fuck and knows it. It's sort of overlooked that he is actually very similar to present Takumi (as stated in Takumi/Kagero).

Anway, as a character I like Support!Xander (great distinction on Thane's part) but as a unit I prefer Ryoma as he's much less maintenance.

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