Pokémon Sun and Moon Demo leaks and Early copy leaks related discussion (Obviously spoilers)

[Konnor97]

Hyper training is just what i have been waiting for. Yes finally they realized that not everyone wants to spend days making one damn good pokemon, much less 6 of them.

Yeah, all you need is the nature you want (easy with Synchronize and/or soft resetting), ability (not a problem), and egg moves.

Now that I think about it, I wonder where we're gonna get hidden abilities. QR codes?

[The DanMan]

I'm listening to Solgaleo/Lunaala's battle theme...

And it borrows heavily from Deoxys' theme.

Considering they're all aliens, it makes sense.

EDIT: One of the pieces of feedback given during Pokefinder is... well...

http://imgur.com/PDz3hXK

(flip the image if it's too hard to read it)

Edited November 9, 2016 by The DanMan

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

The Steel form lacks Arena Trap.

I'm talking about that Vanilla Dugtrio with +20 ATK

This thing actually worth a suspect test as early as gen 5 and Gamefreak somehow buffed it

[Quintessence]

I'm talking about that Vanilla Dugtrio with +20 ATK

This thing actually worth a suspect test as early as gen 5 and Gamefreak somehow buffed it

What is Dugtrio's virtue that puts it into a suspect list?

[Konnor97]

What is Dugtrio's virtue that puts it into a suspect list?

Really fast + good attack (better now) + Arena Trap. It traps something it can beat, and smashes them with EQ. It also has Reversal to go with its terrible bulk and a Focus Sash. Before it goes down it use Memento or set up some SR or even Toxic something to help the rest of the team.

[Magical Glace]

Oh, the legacy boss themes are indeed direct rips of their old battle themes

Can't seem to find Anabel's but I would imagine it's the ORAS version played against the Chatelaines.

Also now that I think about it, the Ultra Beast theme sounds like it came out of a Paper Mario game.

Edited November 10, 2016 by Glaceon Mage

[Ema Skye]

Oh, the legacy boss themes are indeed direct rips of their old battle themes

I forgot how good the Unova Elite Four music was.

Also CYNTHIA! <3

[Magical Glace]

I forgot how good the Unova Elite Four music was.

Also CYNTHIA! <3

Meanwhile I'm just wondering why Gen II was inexplicably unrepresented.

Kanto has 2

Hoenn has 2

Sinnoh has 1

Unova has 2

Kalos has 2

Like no Eusine at least? Something?

[Quintessence]

So some thoughts after digesting a bit more the list of pokemon.

Decidueye and Tsareena are basically the same, at least, statwise. Problem is, Tsareena has a terribly limited movepool, just High Jump Kick and maybe U-Turn or some normal filler to attack, besides Leaf Blade or Trop Kick, while Decidueye has a wider movepool with Spirit Shackles, Sucker Punch, Brave Bird/Acrobatics, Leaf Blade, U-Turn and if you want a bit of utility then Defog's there.

Salazzle worries me. First of all, it's 87.5% male and it can only evolve as female. Second, its movepool is terribly lackluster imo, just Fire Blast, Sludge Wave and maaaybe Dragon Pulse is eh. It has Nasty Plot though, and offensively it is really good but throw it Tentacruel or the new poison/water and it's useless/dead. It is basically designed to be a Steel and Fairy killer. At least, a Sludge Bomb will rek the fairy mushroom.

Palossand left me underwhelmed due to no Calm Mind. It has high Def and SpAtck, and good Hp but its SpD is terrible for its typing. Most enemies will use Hydro Pump, Scald or some strong special STAB and it won't stand a chance. Sad because I wanted to use it because it has some nice moves and Giga Drain. Well, it gets Amnesia, but idk.

Golisopod looks tremendous. This gen says basically, screw Sp. It has 125 Atck, 145 Def, 90 SpD and 75 HP. It has Swords Dance, Sucker Punch, Razor Shell and Leech Life. I think that setup is really strong.

I'm also looking at Oranguru, it might fill a niche but I might throw it as my fifth option.

So that makes Decidueye, Mismagius, Salazzle, Oranguru and Drampa.

[Emerson]

Meanwhile I'm just wondering why Gen II was inexplicably unrepresented.

Kanto has 2

Hoenn has 2

Sinnoh has 1

Unova has 2

Kalos has 2

Like no Eusine at least? Something?

I do find it funny that the fan favorite gen, last time I checked anyways, got omitted from references.

So some thoughts after digesting a bit more the list of pokemon.

Decidueye and Tsareena are basically the same, at least, statwise. Problem is, Tsareena has a terribly limited movepool, just High Jump Kick and maybe U-Turn or some normal filler to attack, besides Leaf Blade or Trop Kick, while Decidueye has a wider movepool with Spirit Shackles, Sucker Punch, Brave Bird/Acrobatics, Leaf Blade, U-Turn and if you want a bit of utility then Defog's there.

Salazzle worries me. First of all, it's 87.5% male and it can only evolve as female. Second, its movepool is terribly lackluster imo, just Fire Blast, Sludge Wave and maaaybe Dragon Pulse is eh. It has Nasty Plot though, and offensively it is really good but throw it Tentacruel or the new poison/water and it's useless/dead. It is basically designed to be a Steel and Fairy killer. At least, a Sludge Bomb will rek the fairy mushroom.

Palossand left me underwhelmed due to no Calm Mind. It has high Def and SpAtck, and good Hp but its SpD is terrible for its typing. Most enemies will use Hydro Pump, Scald or some strong special STAB and it won't stand a chance. Sad because I wanted to use it because it has some nice moves and Giga Drain. Well, it gets Amnesia, but idk.

Golisopod looks tremendous. This gen says basically, screw Sp. It has 125 Atck, 145 Def, 90 SpD and 75 HP. It has Swords Dance, Sucker Punch, Razor Shell and Leech Life. I think that setup is really strong.

Does Tsareena even get Leaf Blade? I was under the assumption that it's best physical grass move was Trop Kick.

EDIT: IT indeed does not. It's only good offensive moves are...

Acrobatics, Trop Kick, High Jump Kick, Play Rough (Egg), Return, and U-Turn.

It does have some utility/non-attacking moves too...

Synthesis, Rapid Spin, and Splash for Z-Move use.

I still think Salazzle should be run with Toxic and Venoshock. Unless you're also running something that relies on T-Wave (Although it DID get a nerf, right?), I see no reason not to. Constant damage and only walled by other Poison types (Mainly Tenta and Toxapex) because of Flamethrower/Fire Blast for Steel types.

'Course Tenta and Toxapex will totally wall it, like you said, but that's why you run Ferrothorn.

Plus you CAN still Toxic them. Since they're walls, it could help tremendously.

The lack of Calm Mind is dissapointing, but with access to a lot of attacking move and Giga Drain for healing, I could see Assault Vest being a great set for it.

Golisopod has a pretty bad ability though. It could pretty much deny you a KO thanks to it's low speed. Granted, having Sucker Punch helps it greatly in that area.

also why razor shell over liquidation? 10 more bp and can still lower defense. oh and 100 accuracy

Edited November 10, 2016 by Emerson

[The DanMan]

Oh, the legacy boss themes are indeed direct rips of their old battle themes

Can't seem to find Anabel's but I would imagine it's the ORAS version played against the Chatelaines.

Also now that I think about it, the Ultra Beast theme sounds like it came out of a Paper Mario game.

Eh, considering ORAS didn't do anything to all the legendary themes, I'm not surprised.

Also, considering nobody seems to have seen it (that's what I get for being on here too much and having to edit my posts a lot to avoid double posting), a certain piece of feedback in Pokefinder is quite, well, referential:

http://imgur.com/PDz3hXK Doesn't like the image extension, so have to link it.

People did say Alola seemed kinda like Hoenn.

Edited November 10, 2016 by The DanMan

[Ebony]

Can I just say I 100% am in love with Anabel's new appearance and that she's probably now my favorite female character if only by design? Because it's true.

[Magical Glace]

Eh, considering ORAS didn't do anything to all the legendary themes, I'm not surprised.

Also, considering nobody seems to have seen it (that's what I get for being on here too much and having to edit my posts a lot to avoid double posting), a certain piece of feedback in Pokefinder is quite, well, referential:

http://imgur.com/PDz3hXK Doesn't like the image extension, so have to link it.

People did say Alola seemed kinda like Hoenn.

I saw that. It is pretty funny, if probably exclusive to English.

Weird the pic itself has no water... sort of.

And Tsareena does not have Leaf Blade.

Edited November 10, 2016 by Glaceon Mage

[King Marth 64]

Ok, I just got a few questions about the leak:

1. Are the Ultra Beasts really considered to be Pokemon?

2. Are the other Aether Foundation members fought in Sun and Moon besides Lusamine? I did see she can be battle from the YouTube video that I watched.

3. Is Colress secretly working for the Aether Foundation or does he have a different role in the plot?

4. Are there any other non-revealed recurring characters that we haven't seen yet besides Anabel, Grimsley, and Colress?

5. And also, since Anabel appeared in Sun and Moon, but not Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire, does she mentioned why the Hoenn Battle Frontier did not appeared in Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire since that was one of the new content that were added in Emerald?

6. Is the Aether Foundation truely the main antagonistic organization or was Lusamine the only few people from the Aether Foundation that the other members didn't realize what Lusamine is responsible for her actions?

7. I did saw Lusamine mentioned that Gladion took the Type: Null, Lillie took the Cormag, and she feels that she get betrayed by her own children; is Lillie and Gladion are her only children mentioned in the game? (I was surprised that some of our guesses about Lillie and Gladion are sibilings are correct, but Lusamine being the mother of the two really surprised me, I thought that she could be sister of the two since she does looked alot young to be a mother?)

8. Ultra Beasts can't transform into humans correct since I did seen Lusamine, Lillie, and Gladion/3 Ultra Beasts and our part of the theory wasn't correct for that one?

Edited November 10, 2016 by King Marth 64

[Konnor97]

Golisopod looks tremendous. This gen says basically, screw Sp. It has 125 Atck, 145 Def, 90 SpD and 75 HP. It has Swords Dance, Sucker Punch, Razor Shell and Leech Life. I think that setup is really strong.

Don't forget about First Impression. Bug Extreme Speed but can only be used on its first turn is something interesting. Thanks to its ability it gets at minimum 2 uses unless it gets KOed before Emergency Exit. It could theoretically even use Leech Life to try and get above 50% HP again to do it again.

[Zanarkin]

Palossand left me underwhelmed due to no Calm Mind. It has high Def and SpAtck, and good Hp but its SpD is terrible for its typing. Most enemies will use Hydro Pump, Scald or some strong special STAB and it won't stand a chance. Sad because I wanted to use it because it has some nice moves and Giga Drain. Well, it gets Amnesia, but idk.

I was under the impression Water Compaction would work akin to lightningrod... Has this been confirmed somewhere?

[Magical Glace]

Replies spoilered and bolded.

Ok, I just got a few questions about the leak:

1. Are the Ultra Beasts really considered to be Pokemon?

Yeah, just from another dimension.

2. Are the other Aether Foundation members fought in Sun and Moon besides Lusamine? I did see she can be battle from the YouTube video that I watched.

Faba and employees

3. Is Colress secretly working for the Aether Foundation or does he have a different role in the plot?

Colress is just a bro who gives you a TM. His role is very minor and is basically BW2 fanservice.

4. Are there any other non-revealed recurring characters that we haven't seen yet besides Anabel, Grimsley, and Colress?

The Battle Tree Characters are Red, Blue, Wally, Anabel, Cynthia, Grimsley, Colress, Sina, and Dexio.

5. And also, since Anabel appeared in Sun and Moon, but not Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire, does she mentioned why the Hoenn Battle Frontier did not appeared in Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire since that was one of the new content that were added in Emerald?

She has amnesia

6. Is the Aether Foundation truely the main antagonistic organization or was Lusamine the only few people from the Aether Foundation that the other members didn't realize what Lusamine is responsible for her actions?

Both Aether and Skull are antagonists, they're in cahoots with each other. As for the Aether Employees realizing about Lusamine... Lusamine was subject to a very powerful neurotoxin. Faba, however, seems pretty determined to stop any interference with opening the Ultra Wormhole.

7. I did saw Lusamine mentioned that Gladion took the Type: Null, Lillie took the Cormag, and she feels that she get betrayed by her own children; is Lillie and Gladion are her only children mentioned in the game? (I was surprised that some of our guesses about Lillie and Gladion are sibilings are correct, but Lusamine being the mother of the two really surprised me, I thought that she could be sister of the two since she does looked alot young to be a mother?)

Presumably, Lillie and Gladion are her only kids. Lillie was left alone with Lusamine after Gladion ran away with Type: Null

8. Ultra Beasts can't transform into humans correct since I did seen Lusamine, Lillie, and Gladion/3 Ultra Beasts and our part of the theory wasn't correct for that one?

UB's looking like the human characters is entirely coincidental, with the exception of UB-01.

Edited November 10, 2016 by Glaceon Mage

[Emerson]

Ok, I just got a few questions from the leak:

1. Are the Ultra Beasts considered to be Pokemon?

Kinda. They're "alternate dimension" Pokemon, or something along those lines.

They are considered Pokemon gameplay wise, and I think they're catchable, but I haven't seen any videos of it yet.

2. Are the other Aether Foundation members fought in Sun and Moon besides Lusamine? I did see she can battle from the YouTube video that I watched.

I don't know this one, but they DO have battle cut-ins, so it's possible

3. Is Colress truely working for the Aether Foundation or does he have a different role?

I... don't think he is? Again, I don't know.

4. Are there any other not revealed recurring characters that we haven't seen yet besides Anabel, Grimsley, and Colress?

Do you mean specifically from older games? Then no.

5. And also, since Anabel appeared in Sun and Moon, but not Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire, does she mentioned why the Hoenn Battle Frontier did not appeared in Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire since that was one of the new content that were added in Emerald?

She has amnesia, so nope. GF has once again avoided the question.

6. Is the Aether Foundation truely the main antagonistic organization or was Lusamine the only few people from the Aether Foundation that the other members didn't realize what Lusamine is responsible for her actions?

Don't know again. I've been trying to figure this out myself.

7. I did saw Lusamine mentioned that Gladion took the Type: Null, Lillie took the Cormag, and she feels that she get betrayed by her own children; is Lillie and Gladion are her only children mentioned in the game? (I was surprised that some of our guesses about Lillie and Gladion are sibilings are correct, but Lusamine being the mother of the two really surprised me, I thought that she could be sister of the two?)

Er, where did this come from? Anyways, yes they are her only children.

8. The Ultra Beasts don't transform into humans correct since I did seen Lusamine, Lillie, and Gladion/3 Ultra Beasts are separate as we expected?

They are not UBs. This is a little more than what you asked, but...

I heard Lusamine made Lillie style herself after UB-01, and that's why they look the similar.

EDIT: Well shoot, I got ninja'd.

Edited November 10, 2016 by Emerson

[Konnor97]

Ok, I just got a few questions about the leak:

1. Are the Ultra Beasts really considered to be Pokemon?

2. Are the other Aether Foundation members fought in Sun and Moon besides Lusamine? I did see she can be battle from the YouTube video that I watched.

3. Is Colress secretly working for the Aether Foundation or does he have a different role in the plot?

4. Are there any other non-revealed recurring characters that we haven't seen yet besides Anabel, Grimsley, and Colress?

5. And also, since Anabel appeared in Sun and Moon, but not Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire, does she mentioned why the Hoenn Battle Frontier did not appeared in Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire since that was one of the new content that were added in Emerald?

6. Is the Aether Foundation truely the main antagonistic organization or was Lusamine the only few people from the Aether Foundation that the other members didn't realize what Lusamine is responsible for her actions?

7. I did saw Lusamine mentioned that Gladion took the Type: Null, Lillie took the Cormag, and she feels that she get betrayed by her own children; is Lillie and Gladion are her only children mentioned in the game? (I was surprised that some of our guesses about Lillie and Gladion are sibilings are correct, but Lusamine being the mother of the two really surprised me, I thought that she could be sister of the two since she does looked alot young to be a mother?)

8. Ultra Beasts can't transform into humans correct since I did seen Lusamine, Lillie, and Gladion/3 Ultra Beasts and our part of the theory wasn't correct for that one?

1: Yes. From a different dimension.

2: Faba is, not Wicke.

3: Not by the looks of it.

4: Nope.

5:

She was pulled from the non-mega universe, and she lacks most of her memories and is now working for the International Police like Looker. It is implied with this info that Looker as seen in ORAS was pulled from the non-mega universe as well.

6: Aether was working with her and with sinister motivations, but I don't think they knew what Lusamine was exactly planning. Wicke seems like the token good teammate on their side.

7: Yes.

8: Correct in that it is true UB are not people. They are separate creatures. Lillie looks like UB-01/Nihilego because Lusamine dressed her like that, and presumably that's why Lusamine looks like UB-02 Beauty/Pheromosa.

EDIT: And I was ninja'd too.

Edited November 10, 2016 by Konnor97

[The DanMan]

Ok, I just got a few questions about the leak:

1. Are the Ultra Beasts really considered to be Pokemon?

2. Are the other Aether Foundation members fought in Sun and Moon besides Lusamine? I did see she can be battle from the YouTube video that I watched.

3. Is Colress secretly working for the Aether Foundation or does he have a different role in the plot?

4. Are there any other non-revealed recurring characters that we haven't seen yet besides Anabel, Grimsley, and Colress?

5. And also, since Anabel appeared in Sun and Moon, but not Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire, does she mentioned why the Hoenn Battle Frontier did not appeared in Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire since that was one of the new content that were added in Emerald?

6. Is the Aether Foundation truely the main antagonistic organization or was Lusamine the only few people from the Aether Foundation that the other members didn't realize what Lusamine is responsible for her actions?

7. I did saw Lusamine mentioned that Gladion took the Type: Null, Lillie took the Cormag, and she feels that she get betrayed by her own children; is Lillie and Gladion are her only children mentioned in the game? (I was surprised that some of our guesses about Lillie and Gladion are sibilings are correct, but Lusamine being the mother of the two really surprised me, I thought that she could be sister of the two since she does looked alot young to be a mother?)

8. Ultra Beasts can't transform into humans correct since I did seen Lusamine, Lillie, and Gladion/3 Ultra Beasts and our part of the theory wasn't correct for that one?

1. They're pokemon as all non-human creatures are Pokemon- mechanically they function like Pokemon, and in-game they're aliens that are the subject of much research.

2. Yep.

3. Colress has very little role in the plot, mostly just giving you the TM for Flame Charge and then hanging out in the Battle Tree.

4. Looker's back, but that's it.

5. Anabel has virtually no memories- she's a "Faller", someone who was brought through from another world by the UBs. What she does remember is that she's an experienced pokemon trainer and was fighting to defend a tower- implying that she's from the Emerald timeline and that UBs, with their dimension traveling ways and bestial instincts, wrecked the old timeline.

6. Can't say.

7. Lillie and Gladion are her only two children.

8. That theory was shot dead. The only instance of a UB and human character resembling eachother having meaning is with UB01 and Lillie- and it's actually reversed from what you'd think. UB01 can "bond" with people and release a neurotoxin that makes the person fall in love with it and exagerrates' their personality and characteristics. Lusamine, already focused on researching the UBs and trying to recover her husband (who dissappeared, presumbaly into their dimension, while doing field research), ended up bonding with UB01. She ended up forcing Lillie to look the part (in the climax Lillie ditches the hat and undoes her braids, pretty well ruining the resemblance).

So TL;DR UB01's survival mechanisms screwed over an already messed-up family.

EDIT: Saizo'd three times

Edited November 10, 2016 by The DanMan

[King Marth 64]

Replies spoilered and bolded.

Wait, in #4 & #8, are those Recurring Characters are the only recurring characters that you mentioned that were available in Sun and Moon? And in #8:

Wait, is the reason that Gladion ran away and Gladion's real objection is to stop her own mother's goal to wreck havoc using the Ultra Beasts in Alola?

Edited November 10, 2016 by King Marth 64

[Quintessence]

I do find it funny that the fan favorite gen, last time I checked anyways, got omitted from references.

Does Tsareena even get Leaf Blade? I was under the assumption that it's best physical grass move was Trop Kick.

EDIT: IT indeed does not. It's only good offensive moves are...

Acrobatics, Trop Kick, High Jump Kick, Play Rough (Egg), Return, and U-Turn.

It does have some utility/non-attacking moves too...

Synthesis, Rapid Spin, and Splash for Z-Move use.

I still think Salazzle should be run with Toxic and Venoshock. Unless you're also running something that relies on T-Wave (Although it DID get a nerf, right?), I see no reason not to. Constant damage and only walled by other Poison types (Mainly Tenta and Toxapex) because of Flamethrower/Fire Blast for Steel types.

'Course Tenta and Toxapex will totally wall it, like you said, but that's why you run Ferrothorn.

Plus you CAN still Toxic them. Since they're walls, it could help tremendously.

The lack of Calm Mind is dissapointing, but with access to a lot of attacking move and Giga Drain for healing, I could see Assault Vest being a great set for it.

Golisopod has a pretty bad ability though. It could pretty much deny you a KO thanks to it's low speed. Granted, having Sucker Punch helps it greatly in that area.

also why razor shell over liquidation? 10 more bp and can still lower defense. oh and 100 accuracy

Whoops I thought she learns Leaf Blade, maybe I got confused with Lurantis.

Yeah, the Toxic+Venoshock combo sounds cool.

Oh right I forgot there's Assault Vest!

Liquidation? Whoops I haven't seen the new moves and abilities.

I was under the impression Water Compaction would work akin to lightningrod... Has this been confirmed somewhere?

Afaik it raises def when hit by water physical moves.

[Magical Glace]

Wait, in #4 & #8, are those Recurring Characters are the only recurring characters that you mentioned that were available in Sun and Moon? And in #8:

Wait, is the reason that Gladion ran away and Gladion's real objection is to stop her own mother's goal to wreck havoc using the Ultra Beasts in Alola?

In #4 Looker reappears, but isn't fought in the tree, sadly, since that would bump IV up to 2 Reps like every Gen but II..

Gladion really disapproved of the treatment Type: Null got. So he stole it and ran away, a pattern that gets repeated with Lillie and Cosmog

[Emerson]

Question, do we have any info on when/how we can catch the UBs? Also Zygarde. ALSO the Tapus.

Edited November 10, 2016 by Emerson

[King Marth 64]

In #4 Looker reappears, but isn't fought in the tree, sadly, since that would bump IV up to 2 Reps like every Gen but II..

Gladion really disapproved of the treatment Type: Null got. So he stole it and ran away, a pattern that gets repeated with Lillie and Cosmog

Alright, I'm little sad to see that no one from Johto cameback to Sun and Moon.

And also, I forgot to ask about what time in the game plot that you can get Key Stone to add it in the Z-Ring and Zygarde Core from Dexio and Sina at? Is it like it's somewhere in the near the beginning after the 2 hours, middle of the game, later, or is it post-game? (I did heard that Ash and Andre from GameXplain did mentioned that they didn't receive any Mega Evolution before the beginning of the 2 hours in their gameplay playthrough.).

Edited November 10, 2016 by King Marth 64