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Man of Many Faces

I Have a Question About King Garon

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I have a question about the plot line for King Garon. My question involves spoiling the ending to all three paths, so if you have not played all three paths please don't view the spoiler.

[spoiler=Plots of All Three Paths] My question is which form is King Garon's true form? In Birthright after you defeat him he turns into the Blight Dragon, in Conquest his form was revealed to be a slime monster after seating on the throne, and in Revelations he doesn't change forms at all. I have read many comments about him taking whatever form Anankos chooses, but if sitting on the Hoshido throne turns him into a slime monster. Doesn't that mean that is his true form, since the throne breaks any spell placed on who ever sits on it? Also if his true form is a slime monster, how did he manage to turn into a dragon in Birthright?

Edited by asdfasdfasdf

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Garon going dragon isn't fully explained, but considering Anankos says stuff like "I forgot how much power I gave him. It's nice to have it back!" it's likely that the dragon form is a result of Anankos lending part of his own power to Garon. The dragon is not his true form, it's always the slime monster but he needs to sit on the throne for it to be revealed, which is why he can retain the human form / get turned into a dragon in the other paths.

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From what I understand and recall, King Garon died sometime after Elise was born, killed by Anankos messing with his mind, and Anankos began controlling his body as a puppet once he'd died. I might be wrong about this, so, if I am, feel free to correct me, as I would like to know for sure.

If I'm not, however, that would make the humanoid form we usually see him in, King Garon's true, and only, form before he died. Which then begs the question: where did the slime monster thing come in? Anankos is a dragon, so wouldn't a Garon corpse controlled by Anankos either turn dust(Garon's true form), or into a dragon(Anankos true form)?

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I'm guessing that the slime form is the result of an excess of Anankos's power corrupting and deforming Garon's body, since he's been possessed for over a decade. He can normally hide this with magic but sitting on the Throne of Truth exposes him, which goes with the belief that the throne breaks any spell put on whoever sits on it.

I also assume that Garon can only turn into a Blight Dragon when loaning power from Anankos, since he isn't part dragon like Corrin is but still has the blood of the Dusk Dragon.

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From what I understand and recall, King Garon died sometime after Elise was born, killed by Anankos messing with his mind, and Anankos began controlling his body as a puppet once he'd died. I might be wrong about this, so, if I am, feel free to correct me, as I would like to know for sure.

If I'm not, however, that would make the humanoid form we usually see him in, King Garon's true, and only, form before he died. Which then begs the question: where did the slime monster thing come in? Anankos is a dragon, so wouldn't a Garon corpse controlled by Anankos either turn dust(Garon's true form), or into a dragon(Anankos true form)?

Anankos is supposed to be a water dragon so that's probably where all the goo is coming from. Perhaps gooron is just water possessing Garon's deceased corpse. Its probably closer to the water possessing than brainwashing Garon. We see Anankos do necromancy through those ghost soldiers and Hoshidan royals, and we know Garon isn't that.

If Garon died after Elise was born then it would be the real king Garon who kidnapped Corrin and killed Sumeragi. In their Supports Azura says she heard Elise was born only after she was kidnapped which was a direct result of Garon kidnapping Corrin.

Edited by Etrurian emperor

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Anankos is supposed to be a water dragon so that's probably where all the goo is coming from. Perhaps gooron is just water possessing Garon's deceased corpse. Its probably closer to the water possessing than brainwashing Garon. We see Anankos do necromancy through those ghost soldiers and Hoshidan royals, and we know Garon isn't that.

If Garon died after Elise was born then it would be the real king Garon who kidnapped Corrin and killed Sumeragi. In their Supports Azura says she heard Elise was born only after she was kidnapped which was a direct result of Garon kidnapping Corrin.

Aside from being loyal to Anankos, Garon still seems to retain some sort of free will, so Anankos isn't actually possessing him directly like he did with Gunter (or Takumi?).

The thing about Garon dying after Elise's birth is a theory; we don't know when it happened other than the fact that it apparently coincided with Arete's death. Since possessed Garon probably has no interest in women, it's probable that, at least, he impregnated Elise's mother before he was corrupted. In that case, it means that Arete died, Garon was possessed, Sumeragi was killed, Corrin got kidnapped, and Azura got kidnapped all in nine months.

Of course, there's also some leeway in that Elise could have been born before Azura or Corrin was kidnapped, but Azura just didn't hear about it until she was brought to Hoshido, which isn't implausible since everyone in Nohr treated Azura like garbage anyway.

Edited by Lightchao42

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Aside from being loyal to Anankos, Garon still seems to retain some sort of free will, so Anankos isn't actually possessing him directly like he did with Gunter (or Takumi?).

Its definitely different. Garon lacks the purple glow that the other two do. I think the difference is that Anankos himself possess or influences Gunther and Takumi while Garon's corpse is possessed by a creature born of Anankos power. I think....

Garon dying after Elise was born is indeed a theory but I think its the likeliest outcome due to the Azura support. Its true that its possible that Garon could have died during the pregnancy thouh. At the end of Birthright Garon's last moment have him return briefly to some state of normality. He tells Corrin that he kidnapped him to get to Mikoto while in conquest Garon implies Anonkos has some desire for Corrin as a host. I think he said something like that to Iago. This could point to Garon having kidnapped Corrin which Ankankos then used for his own ends when Garon was out of the picture.

Was it ever said how Garon died? Did Anonkos assassinate him or did he just die normally which Anankos then made use of .

Edited by Etrurian emperor

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Its definitely different. Garon lacks the purple glow that the other two do. I think the difference is that Anankos himself possess or influences Gunther and Takumi while Garon's corpse is possessed by a creature born of Anankos power. I think....

Garon dying after Elise was born is indeed a theory but I think its the likeliest outcome due to the Azura support. Its true that its possible that Garon could have died during the pregnancy thouh. At the end of Birthright Garon's last moment have him return briefly to some state of normality. He tells Corrin that he kidnapped him to get to Mikoto while in conquest Garon implies Anonkos has some desire for Corrin as a host. I think he said something like that to Iago. This could point to Garon having kidnapped Corrin which Ankankos then used for his own ends when Garon was out of the picture.

Was it ever said how Garon died? Did Anonkos assassinate him or did he just die normally which Anankos then made use of .

He does say that, but take a closer look--he says he kidnapped Corrin to get to Mikoto. Not Sumeragi. That implies some knowledge of her history in Valla, which means his beef with her is over that, not Hoshido. And I don't think the real Garon would have that sort of vendetta. There's just no reason for it. Gooron, however, would. Which is why I also subscribe to the theory that Garon helped conceive Elise, died and was replaced while her mom was still pregnant with her.

It's not said, but given the incredibly convenient timing and what we know about Anankos's goals for Corrin, he was probably assassinated.

Edited by Abvora

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Interesting thing I noted about Garon's two alterative forms is the red orb that moves around his head/body. I think that is the portion that Anankos inserted into his corpse.

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Its definitely different. Garon lacks the purple glow that the other two do. I think the difference is that Anankos himself possess or influences Gunther and Takumi while Garon's corpse is possessed by a creature born of Anankos power. I think....

Garon dying after Elise was born is indeed a theory but I think its the likeliest outcome due to the Azura support. Its true that its possible that Garon could have died during the pregnancy thouh. At the end of Birthright Garon's last moment have him return briefly to some state of normality. He tells Corrin that he kidnapped him to get to Mikoto while in conquest Garon implies Anonkos has some desire for Corrin as a host. I think he said something like that to Iago. This could point to Garon having kidnapped Corrin which Ankankos then used for his own ends when Garon was out of the picture.

Was it ever said how Garon died? Did Anonkos assassinate him or did he just die normally which Anankos then made use of .

The exact nature of Garon's possession is unfortunately never made clear. In chapter 15 of Conquest...

Azura: I wished to shield you from this knowledge, Corrin, but it's time you knew. The man you call Father...is not King Garon. Not anymore. The man masquerading as your father is not of this world. He's being controlled by something—by a demon of some sort.

[...]

Corrin: ...I'll be fine. Azura... Can I ask you something? Is there really no way we can save him? No way at all?

Azura: Sadly, it's far too late for that. His soul has been corrupted beyond salvaging. The best we can do for him is to defeat him and release his soul to the next world. I did all I could to help...when I sang that song at the theatre in Cyrkensia.

Meanwhile, in chapter 19 of Revelation:

Xander: But then...why would Father worship [Anankos], rather than the Dusk Dragon?

Azura: I'm sorry to be the one to tell you... It's doubtful that there's anything left to the true King Garon.
Xander: What do you mean?
Azura: Anankos has the ability to possess people and to control the bodies of the dead. His presence, even in short periods of time, is very corrupting. Anankos's magic is likely all that keeps King Garon alive at this point. He is nothing more than a servant.
Xander: I can't—
Azura: Anankos is using King Garon as a puppet to create wars and destroy the world.

Based on "releasing his soul to the next world", it's possible that Garon technically isn't dead, even if his personality has been entirely overwritten and beyond saving. Rather than dying and being resurrected like Sumeragi, Mikoto, and Arete, he could have fallen under Anankos's control some other way, like Takumi did.

The real Garon probably wouldn't kill Sumeragi and kidnap Corrin if what Leo and Xander say about him is correct, so he was probably under Anankos's control by then. We also don't know if Garon was planning on stealing Corrin all along, or if he only did so because they happened to be there when he killed Sumeragi.

Since it's suggested Garon wants to drive Corrin to despair so Anankos can possess them, maybe Garon was possessed in a similar fashion? His family situation was pretty bad (the third drama CD confirmed that some of his children were killed), and perhaps losing Arete was the last straw required for Anankos to control him. We don't know how (or if) he died, but if he did and was already being influenced by Anankos at that time, he could've been convinced by Anankos to commit suicide.

He does say that, but take a closer look--he says he kidnapped Corrin to get to Mikoto. Not Sumeragi. That implies some knowledge of her history in Valla, which means his beef with her is over that, not Hoshido. And I don't think the real Garon would have that sort of vendetta. There's just no reason for it. Gooron, however, would. Which is why I also subscribe to the theory that Garon helped conceive Elise, died and was replaced while her mom was still pregnant with her.

It's not said, but given the incredibly convenient timing and what we know about Anankos's goals for Corrin, he was probably assassinated.

Garon wanted Mikoto dead because her barrier was preventing Nohr from invading Hoshido, which is what Anankos wants. I assume that his plan following Corrin's kidnapping was:

1. Train Corrin in the Northern Fortress until they're strong enough.

2. Give Ganglari to Corrin, and send them on a mission to the border with Gunter and Hans.

3. Hans sends Gunter to Valla so Anankos can possess him, while Corrin gets captured by Hoshido (or maybe Corrin gets sent into Valla by Ganglari, and Anankos sends them to Hoshido).

4. Corrin reunited Hoshidan royal family.

5. Sumeragi uses Ganglari to kill Mikoto and Corrin, destroying the barrier and ensuring that Corrin doesn't seek revenge.

6. Nohr invades Hoshido.

Corrin surviving thanks to Mikoto screwed up the plan, so in Conquest Garon tries to have Xander kill Corrin. This won't work, so Anankos instead tells Garon to send Corrin on a suicide mission against the Ice Tribe. This also doesn't work, so eventually Garon decides to drive Corrin to despair so Anankos can properly possess them.

Interesting thing I noted about Garon's two alterative forms is the red orb that moves around his head/body. I think that is the portion that Anankos inserted into his corpse.

The artbook that came with the special edition states that the "eye" is a sign of the dragon blood within him, which I assume refers to the Dusk Dragon.

Edited by Lightchao42

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Garon wanted Mikoto dead because her barrier was preventing Nohr from invading Hoshido, which is what Anankos wants. I assume that his plan following Corrin's kidnapping was:

1. Train Corrin in the Northern Fortress until they're strong enough.

2. Give Ganglari to Corrin, and send them on a mission to the border with Gunter and Hans.

3. Hans sends Gunter to Valla so Anankos can possess him, while Corrin gets captured by Hoshido (or maybe Corrin gets sent into Valla by Ganglari, and Anankos sends them to Hoshido).

4. Corrin reunited Hoshidan royal family.

5. Sumeragi uses Ganglari to kill Mikoto and Corrin, destroying the barrier and ensuring that Corrin doesn't seek revenge.

6. Nohr invades Hoshido.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Mikoto raise the barrier in response to the kidnapping, not before? Because there would have been an all-out war otherwise.

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Based on "releasing his soul to the next world", it's possible that Garon technically isn't dead, even if his personality has been entirely overwritten and beyond saving. Rather than dying and being resurrected like Sumeragi, Mikoto, and Arete, he could have fallen under Anankos's control some other way, like Takumi did.

Actually, Anankos likely has only true control over corpses. While he is apparently able to resurrect people without having any prior influence over them, Takumi, Garon and Gunther were (likely in Garon's case) alive when he first controlled them. We don't know about Garon, but both Gunther and Takumi showed resistance to Anankos, while the royals in relevation couldn't.

Takumi is actually an interesting case, since we can see the gradual progression of the posession. For the most part, he is simply Takumi, with small moments of Anankos taking control but never for long. This stops in Conquest, when he shows up in the Final chapter completely under Anankos control and it is confirmed that he is actually dead at that point (hence you meet his soul in the afterlife). The best guess for when this happened is chapter 23, when Anankos forced him to jump from the Wall. He did this not just to let his pawn escape from Corrin, but also to kill Takumi off for good so he could have complete control, no questions asked.

So my theory is, that Anankos forced Garon to commit suicide once the posession had progressed far enough. Afterwards he resurrected him as one of his loyal corpse puppets.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Mikoto raise the barrier in response to the kidnapping, not before? Because there would have been an all-out war otherwise.

It's never said when Mikoto created the barrier, so she could have created it before or after Corrin's kidnapping. Regardless, Garon presumably didn't have a specific purpose in mind when he kidnapped Corrin, and only knew that they would be useful eventually (more useful than Azura, anyway, since otherwise he would've traded Corrin back for her when she was kidnapped).

Actually, Anankos likely has only true control over corpses. While he is apparently able to resurrect people without having any prior influence over them, Takumi, Garon and Gunther were (likely in Garon's case) alive when he first controlled them. We don't know about Garon, but both Gunther and Takumi showed resistance to Anankos, while the royals in relevation couldn't.

Takumi is actually an interesting case, since we can see the gradual progression of the posession. For the most part, he is simply Takumi, with small moments of Anankos taking control but never for long. This stops in Conquest, when he shows up in the Final chapter completely under Anankos control and it is confirmed that he is actually dead at that point (hence you meet his soul in the afterlife). The best guess for when this happened is chapter 23, when Anankos forced him to jump from the Wall. He did this not just to let his pawn escape from Corrin, but also to kill Takumi off for good so he could have complete control, no questions asked.

So my theory is, that Anankos forced Garon to commit suicide once the posession had progressed far enough. Afterwards he resurrected him as one of his loyal corpse puppets.

I did think that Garon's possession situation was similar to Takumi's, anyway, so your point is valid (Garon might have tried to fight Anankos's influence at some point, but we don't know). Anankos took advantage of Takumi's feelings of betrayal and resentment, so maybe he manipulated Garon's bitterness and sorrow following the concubine wars, Nohr's famine, and Arete's death? Though we don't know the circumstances around Arete's death other than the fact that she disappeared by talking about Valla...

Edited by Lightchao42

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If I recall from Revelations, Camilla mentions Azura's time in Nohr, and how she, Xander, and later, Leo were ordered to not come in contact with her. However, she mentions nothing of Elise. Elise may not have been born until after Azura was kidnapped, or maybe Elise was just newly born, but was unknown to Azura due to the lack of connection (maybe even knowledge) of her Nohrian siblings. It could go either way.

What bugs me is that I have no clue how Garon became controlled in the first place. If it were foreign affairs in Valla (before Anankos usurped the place), it doesn't make sense to me, as he would've been in council with Azura's dad. And he would've been acquainted with Arete before she fled. It just doesn't make sense.

I do think I have an idea on how it may have conspired. Arete herself. To me, I think that the death of Queen Katerina would've been hard on Garon, resulting in the concubines en masse. However, it would only make things worse, considering the women were killing each other and the children of the other concubines to gain favour. Enter stage right Arete. He falls in love with her voice and marries her. However, Arete already with an infant daughter (Azura), and the poor treatment she received from Nohrians (I'd assume mostly the other concubines), they bear no children, and the concubine thing continues in order to distract Garon from the heartbreak he suffers. Garon is already vulnerable for possession here, but there is still no way for Anankos to control him, seeing as he has to either; a) be dead, or b) Somehow end up in Valla alive and be possessed as Gunter and Takumi were. However, there may be a third way for Garon to be possessed; Arete's death. No one mentions Garon's presence or lack thereof while she died, meaning he could've been there to hear the secret of Valla (or at least part of it). Maybe upon hearing the secret, plus Garon's vulnerability (who probably will be even more vulnerable considering that now his 2nd wife is dying too) is enough for Anankos to possess him as he did Gunter and Takumi, without needing to leave Valla, or needing Garon to be there.

Azura could've easily been posessed too, but I think it would come down to the fact that Garon would be way more vulnerable, and a better choice to possess overall, since he's king of Nohr.

Extremely flawed/loopholed possibility for your thoughts here.

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There are some interesting theories in here. Personally, I think the story is just full of holes but it's fun imagining these holes can be stitched together to form a coherent story.

The real Garon probably wouldn't kill Sumeragi and kidnap Corrin if what Leo and Xander say about him is correct, so he was probably under Anankos's control by then. We also don't know if Garon was planning on stealing Corrin all along, or if he only did so because they happened to be there when he killed Sumeragi.

Who's to say he wouldn't? All we know about Garon is that he wasn't as much of insane despot before. No one said he was nice to people besides his children, and if Camilla's depiction of the Waifu Wars is correct, he encouraged all that bloodshed.

Garon wanted Mikoto dead because her barrier was preventing Nohr from invading Hoshido, which is what Anankos wants. I assume that his plan following Corrin's kidnapping was:

1. Train Corrin in the Northern Fortress until they're strong enough.

2. Give Ganglari to Corrin, and send them on a mission to the border with Gunter and Hans.

3. Hans sends Gunter to Valla so Anankos can possess him, while Corrin gets captured by Hoshido (or maybe Corrin gets sent into Valla by Ganglari, and Anankos sends them to Hoshido).

4. Corrin reunited Hoshidan royal family.

5. Sumeragi uses Ganglari to kill Mikoto and Corrin, destroying the barrier and ensuring that Corrin doesn't seek revenge.

6. Nohr invades Hoshido.

Corrin surviving thanks to Mikoto screwed up the plan, so in Conquest Garon tries to have Xander kill Corrin. This won't work, so Anankos instead tells Garon to send Corrin on a suicide mission against the Ice Tribe. This also doesn't work, so eventually Garon decides to drive Corrin to despair so Anankos can properly possess them.

Hoshido and Nohr seem to have a long history of conflict so it's reasonable to think that human Garon would also have reason to invade Hoshido.

Bolded: Why doesn't Garon stick to the original plan of just killing Kamui? That seems a lot more direct than driving him to despair and then making him fall into the infinite chasm, again.

Based on "releasing his soul to the next world", it's possible that Garon technically isn't dead, even if his personality has been entirely overwritten and beyond saving. Rather than dying and being resurrected like Sumeragi, Mikoto, and Arete, he could have fallen under Anankos's control some other way, like Takumi did.

If Azura's words are precise and intentional, she said Garon is still alive, albeit with a completely warped soul and true form. This would be consistent with the fact that we don't seem his ghost in Revelation.

So here's a question directed the whole thread. Who exactly can Anankos resurrect? Anyone who has died? Only those he and his servants kill? Of the people he brings back as fully controlled servants we have Scarlet (killed by Anankos), Sumeragi (killed by Garon, possibly Gooron?), Mikoto (killed by possessed!Sumeragi), Arete (died from the curse) and Takumi (fell off great wall). Not all of his servants were directly killed by him so we can perhaps assume that he can bring anyone back. Also, does Anankos just control the bodies and brains of the people he brings back? On one hand, there is an afterlife where the true spirits of the dead reside (such as Takumi and Mikoto) but on the other hand, after the possessed Sumeragi, Arete and Mikoto are killed, they speak to the protagonists as though THOSE are the real spirits. I'm confused.

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There are some interesting theories in here. Personally, I think the story is just full of holes but it's fun imagining these holes can be stitched together to form a coherent story.

Who's to say he wouldn't? All we know about Garon is that he wasn't as much of insane despot before. No one said he was nice to people besides his children, and if Camilla's depiction of the Waifu Wars is correct, he encouraged all that bloodshed.

Hoshido and Nohr seem to have a long history of conflict so it's reasonable to think that human Garon would also have reason to invade Hoshido.

Bolded: Why doesn't Garon stick to the original plan of just killing Kamui? That seems a lot more direct than driving him to despair and then making him fall into the infinite chasm, again.

If Azura's words are precise and intentional, she said Garon is still alive, albeit with a completely warped soul and true form. This would be consistent with the fact that we don't seem his ghost in Revelation.

So here's a question directed the whole thread. Who exactly can Anankos resurrect? Anyone who has died? Only those he and his servants kill? Of the people he brings back as fully controlled servants we have Scarlet (killed by Anankos), Sumeragi (killed by Garon, possibly Gooron?), Mikoto (killed by possessed!Sumeragi), Arete (died from the curse) and Takumi (fell off great wall). Not all of his servants were directly killed by him so we can perhaps assume that he can bring anyone back. Also, does Anankos just control the bodies and brains of the people he brings back? On one hand, there is an afterlife where the true spirits of the dead reside (such as Takumi and Mikoto) but on the other hand, after the possessed Sumeragi, Arete and Mikoto are killed, they speak to the protagonists as though THOSE are the real spirits. I'm confused.

I haven't noticed it until you mentioned it, but it seems like Anankos can only bring back those he had a hand in killing. In the case of Takumi he was killed by Anankos because before he jump off Anankos's aura was showing meaning Anankos had a hand in his death. He played a role in the deaths of everyone he has resurrected or controlled.

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