FE8 FE8 Auction, bid turn-count handicaps experiment

[JudgeWargrave]

Hi everyone. I've lurked here and wanted to join a draft for quite a while, but there were a few aspects of drafting that kept me away. 1, balancing the draft positions is difficult to get right. 2, drafts can take a long time to start. 3, teams are often quite similar with limited variety, especially the first picks. So I thought an auction would be better, because it solves all three of those problems.

This won't be an auction of arbitrary points, though. This will be an auction of turn-count handicaps/penalties! E.G. you can bid 15 turns on Vanessa or something. If no one else bids that much, you get Vanessa for your team, but you also add a 15 turn penalty to your final score. Seems more interesting than arbitrary points to me. Heck, you can even bid non-whole numbers if you want, like a tenth of a turn on Marisa or something, makes the decision for lower tiered units slightly more meaningful. Just so long as the bid is non-negative! I don't want everyone putting like -1000 for Marisa as a joke, and then suddenly someone wins with -999 and has a negative total handicap. If there's a tie, all tieing players get the unit and the handicap they bid.

To join, just send a list of the 28 draftable names and bid amounts via PM (making it a sealed auction on all characters is the key to starting quickly). Also post that you did so that others know how many are in.

"Woah, slow down there! If you're participating, won't that just allow you to snipe bids as you please?"

Nope, because I can post this:
07caf4b83e502fdef21a381f34609d262b4d288c970bdb3f86be603b30bf7731

That is the SHA-256 hash of my bid. It would be pretty much impossible to find a string to match that hash other than the string I used (much less a string that resembled a valid bid!) so I'm stuck with it and can't change it after learning the other player's bids, effectively "sealing" it. After teams are determined I will post the text I hashed so you can hash it yourself and verify.

Now that I've introduced the concept, perhaps I should explain *how* this addresses the three problems I listed.

[spoiler=1, balancing the draft positions is difficult to get right.]This is solved automatically by making all the players symmetric, by having all bids be "sealed". There's no advantage to going first, because *no one is "first"*. Players can join in any order and the result will be the same.

[spoiler=2, drafts can take a long time to start]This way only takes one PM+post from each player, not 8 posts (1 to enter and 7 to select team members). So 3 actions versus 23 (subtracting OP) should be much faster. Heck, I've seen a draft take about 11 days to get started!

[spoiler=3, teams are often quite similar with limited variety, especially the first picks]In a draft, the initial sequence of picks is nearly fixed. However, this way someone could get both Vanessa and Franz! (with a hefty penalty to compensate). What different strats become possible with both? What different strats become necessary without any of the top 4? What about a team with no warper, or a team with two or even three fliers? How often do you get things like that in a draft? Plus, teams are not necessarily made of 7 units! (although I will recommend a method to keep team size reasonable). Moreover, you actually have a decision to make about each character. You don't just first pick Vanessa because she's obviously best, you actually have to evaluate what she's worth.

And also, an afterthought:
[spoiler=4, we can learn some interesting stuff]The ranking of the top is fixed, the ranking of the bottom is nearly irrelevant, and only the middle is debatable in a meaningful way. But there is so much more we could learn about "how good" each character is.

The actual turns a character can save is, of course, dependent on the other team members. But having an actual number, even an imperfect one, rather than just a rank could reveal some interesting things. We all know Vanessa is better than, say, Ross, but what about Ross and Artur together? Is she "twice as good" as Ross, "thrice as good"? Who knows, but if it turns out that the best results are obtains by bidding X on Ross and Y on Vanessa, we'll have a kind of answer that's more than mere opinion.

Maybe we can try making Seth, Tethys, and Myrrh biddable another time too.

OK, one last thing: team sizes. Very small teams and very large teams, while mathly "fair" (since no player is disadvantaged by randomness, but only by the decisions of the players), would possibly lead to a worse experience for all parties. Initially our bids will probably vary wildly too, so unbalanced team sizes is a likely outcome.

If the people participating don't object, I would propose a simple Team Equalization Process, which would cap team size at X = average team size + 1 (so some variability still possible). If there are no ties, X = 8. After the teams are first made, any team with more than X members will lose the member(s) it bid least on (alphabetical tiebreak, A leaves before Z). Then all those characters will reenter the bidding pool, available only to those that haven't already lost them. Their handicap will become the average of their old handicap and the new winner's bid. This process will repeat until every team has X or fewer units.

[spoiler=Example auction with super arbitrary, inflated numbers]A B C D <-Player

36.06 42.66 45.11 38.32 Vanessa
41.14 38.20 38.82 38.53 Franz
31.45 33.64 40.86 39.51 Tana
30.11 43.38 29.55 33.88 Artur
39.50 36.19 35.11 28.46 Garcia
35.04 40.79 36.13 36.85 Gilliam
34.10 33.27 27.29 33.83 Lute
33.33 34.96 32.77 36.06 Kyle
28.77 32.87 30.17 32.25 Saleh
29.55 29.44 32.42 31.43 Moulder
27.28 30.39 27.95 33.60 Ross
31.53 30.03 27.74 33.79 Forde
24.97 27.73 25.68 30.05 Natasha
26.60 26.15 28.75 27.61 Joshua
29.38 23.00 23.98 24.83 Gerik
23.59 24.55 21.53 23.49 Cormag
20.33 23.08 24.79 23.98 Colm
23.04 21.17 26.87 19.97 Dozla
20.60 25.45 18.39 21.50 Innes
21.88 19.46 22.73 17.63 Neimi
21.08 14.47 21.26 18.46 Amelia
19.94 17.39 19.39 18.38 Duessel
20.27 19.41 17.85 19.61 Knoll
17.90 17.53 14.96 18.95 L'Arachel
15.61 14.40 17.09 15.41 Ewan
16.57 15.18 15.18 14.59 Syrene
14.22 15.93 13.50 12.53 Rennac
14.89 12.91 14.24 13.70 Marisa

A: Franz, Garcia, Lute, Gerik, Duessel, Knoll, Syrene, Marisa, total handicap 215.78, 8 members

B: Artur, Gilliam, Saleh, Cormag, Innes, Rennac, total handicap 182.97, 6 members

C: Vanessa, Tana, Moulder, Joshua, Colm, Dozla, Neimi, Amelia, Ewan, total handicap 259.88, 9 members

D: Kyle, Ross, Forde, Natasha, L'Arachel, total handicap 152.45, 5 members

Now average team size is 8, and player C has 9 members, so C loses Ewan, C's least valued. Next Ewan goes to A, and Ewan's handicap becomes (17.09 + 15.61)/2 = 16.35. Now A has too many though, so A loses Marisa, A's least valued. Marisa goes to C and her handicap becomes (14.89+14.24)/2 = 14.565. C, of course, has too many, so again Marisa must be sent into the pool, this time to D, and her handicap becomes (14.565+13.70)/2 = 14.1325. Now the final teams are:

A: Franz, Garcia, Lute, Gerik, Duessel, Knoll, Ewan, Syrene.

handicap 215.78+16.35-14.1325 = 217.9925

B: Artur, Gilliam, Saleh, Cormag, Innes, Rennac.

handicap 182.97

C: Vanessa, Tana, Moulder, Joshua, Colm, Dozla, Neimi, Amelia.

handicap 259.88-16.35 = 243.53

D: Kyle, Ross, Forde, Natasha, L'Arachel, Marisa.

handicap 152.45 + 14.1325 = 166.5875

(Neither Ewan nor Marisa go directly to D because, in the event multiple characters reenter the pool, the order they are sent could otherwise cause arbitrary results. E.g. Ewan and Ross reenter a pool, and a player E with 7 members would get them next. Which one? If they can't be sent to a player with 8+, this is arbitrary, based on who sends first. If they can both be sent to E, then back to the pool again, then who E gets is uniquely determined as their most desired. We could uniquely determine via alphabetical or recruitment order too, but that's arbitrary in its own way, albeit non-random. I used alphabetical tiebreak for who gets sent *from* over-filled teams because I couldn't think of a better way.)

[spoiler=Standard rules of play]Drafting:
1. This draft is for 4 players.
2. Eirika/Ephraim, Orson, Tethys, and Myrrh are free for all to use.
3. Seth is banned from all use.
4. The game will be played on Hard Mode.

Rules:
1. Undrafted units may recruit characters, rescue undrafted units and NPCs, trade, visit Shops and Armories and dig up items in the desert.
2. Undrafted units may not do anything not listed above, including but not limited to meatshielding, building Supports, and opening Doors or Chests.
3. Map shopping is allowed.
4. Skirmishes/use of the Tower or Ruins is disallowed. Skirmishes that are blocking your path may be activated and immediately fled from.
5. Defend chapters count the last played Player Phase for turns if the timer is waited out.
6. Amelia may be leveled to level 10/1 and Ewan to level 10/5 in the tower. All items gained from this must be tossed.

Penalties:
1. Undrafted units have a 4 turn penalty, per unit per chapter.
2. Seth has a special 8 turn penalty per chapter.

That's it! If you're interested, send that PM, make a post, and let's get started!

Teams

Judge Wargrave: Garcia, Kyle, Ross, Forde, Moulder, Natasha, Joshua, Colm

handicap 50 (.515), turn-count 115
Eggclipse: Rennac, Knoll, Duessel, Ewan, L'Arachel, Syrene, Marisa

handicap 12 (.3)
General Horace: Cormag, Neimi, Innes, Dozla, Amelia

handicap 13 (.6675), turn-count 129
Carmine Sword: Vanessa, Saleh, Artur, Franz, Tana, Gilliam, Lute, Gerik

handicap 124, turn-count 91

Edited November 24, 2016 by JudgeWargrave

[eclipse]

While there's some potential for abuse, I'm going to attempt to do this honestly. PM sent! Now watch me take forever to finish.

[JudgeWargrave]

Received! Yeah, there's some...variation in bids already. I'm already worried I've made a huge mistake. Well this is the first thing of this type I know of so I expected that. Better start hashing quintillions of text strings to change my bids, lol.

[General Horace]

Ive considered joining, as what you propose does likely solve the isses with FE8 drafts, but I'm really not a fan of bidding tenth's of a turn for units. It just kinda sounds silly if your final turncount is 105.9 or something.

I don't think forcing equal team size is necessary, but some means need to be taken into account to ensure that someone who overbids doesn't just get every unit. Maybe enforce a max team size of 10 or 11 and then they lose units they bid the least on or something.

[eclipse]

Think of this as an experimental draft. I think the premise has potential, which is why I'll take 500 turns to finish this.

[General Horace]

Well, i'll send in my picks per the rules in the OP for now, and I guess we'll see how it goes.

A main reason I think everyone having the same team size is essential is that someone could bid 0 on every unit and have a ~30ish? turn lead while still getting a (bad) team that is the same size as everyone else. I didn't do this but the option is there.

Edited November 4, 2016 by General Horace

[Carmine Sword]

Sent in my picks. I'm interested in seeing how this plays out.

[JudgeWargrave]

OK, got everyone's bids! Just give me a bit to crunch the team equalization.

Well, i'll send in my picks per the rules in the OP for now, and I guess we'll see how it goes.

A main reason I think everyone having the same team size is essential is that someone could bid 0 on every unit and have a ~30ish? turn lead while still getting a (bad) team that is the same size as everyone else. I didn't do this but the option is there.

Horace, did you see the bit in the OP about team equalization? I'm capping everyone at 1+team average size for now. Also, even if you bid 0 for everyone, your handicap would still be greater than 0 because the units you get would have handicaps influenced by other's bids if you don't win them outright, via the averaging. It's still potentially viable and degenerate, I'll admit.

Also, fractional bids are admittedly ugly, but I thought they would help reduce the number of ties, especially for low tier units.

Edited November 4, 2016 by JudgeWargrave

[General Horace]

OK, got everyone's bids! Just give me a bit too crunch the team equalization.

Horace, did you see the bit in the OP about team equalization? I'm capping everyone at 1+team average size for now. Also, even if you bid 0 for everyone, your handicap would still be greater than 0 because the units you get would have handicaps influenced by other's bids if you don't win them outright, via the averaging. It's still potentially viable and degenerate, I'll admit.

Also, fractional bids are admittedly ugly, but I thought they would help reduce the number of ties, especially for low tier units.

Oh, i totally missed that part. Reading comprehension is hard.

In old auction drafts, in the case of ties, I think people had a chance to bid more (or stay firm if they didnt want to go higher) with the person(s) they were tied with. It rarely ended up in another tie. Another way to do it is give it to the person with the lowest total turn value.

Hopefully nobody did my strat of adding .1 to all my picks

[Carmine Sword]

All of my bids were integers because having a fraction of a turn added on to your tuncount felt weird, but that's just me.

[JudgeWargrave]

OK, here we are. Only needed two rounds to balance team numbers.

Also, here's my bids: "Vanessa 11.11, Franz 10.84, Tana 8.86, Artur 7.39, Garcia 6.83, Gilliam 6.63, Lute 5.59, Kyle 6.21, Saleh 5.81, Moulder 4.79, Ross 4.77, Forde 4.40, Natasha 4.10, Joshua 3.85, Gerik 4.03, Cormag 2.88, Colm 3.04, Dozla 2.56, Innes 2.02, Neimi 2.05, Amelia 2.02, Duessel 0.97, Knoll 1.06, L'Arachel 0.99, Ewan 0.60, Syrene 0.53, Rennac 0.44, Marisa 0.01". You can hash that without quotes here: http://www.xorbin.com/tools/sha256-hash-calculator

[spoiler=Initial bids]

Sorted by Carmine's bids since Carmine's preference ordering is the only relevant one here.

Judge W Egg Horace Carmine
11.11 05.00 11.10 22.00 Vanessa
05.81 04.00 05.10 17.00 Saleh
07.39 04.00 08.10 17.00 Artur
10.84 05.00 10.10 16.00 Franz
08.86 04.00 05.10 14.00 Tana
06.63 01.00 04.10 14.00 Gilliam
05.59 03.00 04.10 12.00 Lute
04.03 02.00 02.10 12.00 Gerik
06.83 01.00 04.10 12.00 Garcia
04.77 00.50 02.10 10.00 Ross
04.79 01.00 02.10 09.00 Moulder
06.21 03.00 03.10 09.00 Kyle
04.40 03.00 02.10 09.00 Forde
02.88 01.00 03.10 08.00 Cormag
02.02 01.00 01.10 07.00 Innes
04.10 02.00 00.10 06.00 Natasha
03.85 02.00 01.10 05.00 Joshua
02.05 00.30 01.10 03.00 Neimi
02.56 01.00 01.10 03.00 Dozla
03.04 02.00 02.10 03.00 Colm
00.53 01.00 00.10 02.00 Syrene
00.44 03.00 00.10 02.00 Rennac
00.99 01.00 00.10 02.00 L'Arachel
01.06 02.00 00.10 02.00 Knoll
00.97 02.00 01.10 02.00 Duessel
02.02 00.10 01.10 01.00 Amelia
00.01 00.30 00.10 00.00 Marisa
00.60 02.00 00.10 00.00 Ewan

Current teams:

Judge Wargrave: 2, Colm, Amelia
Eggclipse: 5, Rennac, Knoll, Duessel, Marisa, Ewan
General Horace: 0
Carmine Sword: 23, Vanessa, Saleh, Artur, Franz, Tana, Gilliam, Lute, Gerik, Garcia, Ross, Moulder, Kyle, Forde, Cormag, Innes, Natasha, Joshua, Neimi, Dozla, Syrene, L'Arachel, Knoll, Duessel

Average size: 7.5. Max team size = 7.5+1->8

Well, it's a good thing we have some balancing rounds, lol

[spoiler=Balancing round 1]

Judge W Egg Horace Carmine Updated handicap
06.21 03.00 03.10 09.00 7.605 Kyle
06.83 01.00 04.10 12.00 9.415 Garcia
04.40 03.00 02.10 09.00 6.7 Forde
04.77 00.50 02.10 10.00 7.385 Ross
04.79 01.00 02.10 09.00 6.9 Moulder
02.88 01.00 03.10 08.00 5.55 Cormag
04.10 02.00 00.10 06.00 5.05 Natasha
03.85 02.00 01.10 05.00 4.425 Joshua
02.02 01.00 01.10 07.00 4.51 Innes
02.56 01.00 01.10 03.00 2.78 Dozla
02.05 00.30 01.10 03.00 2.525 Neimi
00.99 01.00 00.10 02.00 1.5 L'Arachel
00.53 01.00 00.10 02.00 1.5 Syrene

Current teams:

Judge Wargrave: 12, Garcia, Kyle, Ross, Forde, Moulder, Natasha, Joshua, Colm, Neimi, Innes, Dozla, Amelia
Eggclipse: 7, Rennac, Knoll, Duessel, Ewan, L'Arachel, Syrene, Marisa
General Horace: 1, Cormag
Carmine Sword: 8, Vanessa, Saleh, Artur, Franz, Tana, Gilliam, Lute, Gerik

Average size: 7. Max team size = 8

One more.

[spoiler=Balancing round 2]

Judge W Egg Horace Carmine Updated handicap

02.02 00.10 01.10 01.00 1.5600 Amelia
02.02 01.00 01.10 07.00 2.8050 Innes
02.56 01.00 01.10 03.00 1.9400 Dozla
02.05 00.30 01.10 03.00 1.8125 Neimi

Current teams:

Judge Wargrave: 8, Garcia, Kyle, Ross, Forde, Moulder, Natasha, Joshua, Colm
Eggclipse: 7, Rennac, Knoll, Duessel, Ewan, L'Arachel, Syrene, Marisa
General Horace: 5, Cormag, Neimi, Innes, Dozla, Amelia
Carmine Sword: 8, Vanessa, Saleh, Artur, Franz, Tana, Gilliam, Lute, Gerik

Average size: 7. Max team size = 8

Weew, finished! Well, almost: handicap totals.

[spoiler=character handicaps after balancing]

unmodified
22.00 Vanessa
17.00 Artur
17.00 Saleh
16.00 Franz
14.00 Tana
14.00 Gilliam
12.00 Lute
12.00 Gerik
03.04 Colm
03.00 Rennac
02.00 Knoll
02.00 Ewan
00.30 Marisa
02.00 Duessel
finalized round 1
7.6050 Kyle
9.4150 Garcia
6.7000 Forde
7.3850 Ross
6.8950 Moulder
5.5500 Cormag
5.0500 Natasha
4.4250 Joshua
1.5000 L'Arachel
1.5000 Syrene
finalized round 2
1.5600 Amelia
2.8050 Innes
1.9400 Dozla
1.8125 Neimi

Final teams:

Judge Wargrave: Garcia, Kyle, Ross, Forde, Moulder, Natasha, Joshua, Colm, handicap 50 (.515)
Eggclipse: Rennac, Knoll, Duessel, Ewan, L'Arachel, Syrene, Marisa, handicap 12 (.3)
General Horace: Cormag, Neimi, Innes, Dozla, Amelia, handicap 13 (.6675)
Carmine Sword: Vanessa, Saleh, Artur, Franz, Tana, Gilliam, Lute, Gerik, handicap 124

Well...how do we feel about this people? I mean, there's clearly some...large imbalances in a lot of ways. Carmine and I have fine teams (Carmine's a bit better than fine), but I think Carmine's handicap is, well, insurmountable. Egg and Horace have some seriously sadistic teams, but I don't know how slow a mostly Eirika solo really is. Probably I can't catch up, lol. I kind of expected horrible imbalance because there wasn't a precedent for how much to bid on anyone so ideas would vary.

So we can roll with it for the lols, rebid, or just discard the whole thing. I'm up for the first two options.

[General Horace]

ayyyyyy i would have had 0 units, I knew i CHEAPED OUT with my bids.

I feel we should try it at the very least to see how things sort out in the end. Carmine's team while amazing has no chance of winning, but we can start to get a feel for the numbers a bit better for future drafts?

[Carmine Sword]

I'm dying, hahaha.

I had a feeling I might have bet too much, but I had no idea how much other people were betting so I just overbid on everyone lol.

124 penalty, that's more turns than it takes to finish the game lol.

EDIT: Better post these here before I forget.

Prologue: 2/2

Chapter 1: 4/6

Chapter 2: 5/11

Edited November 5, 2016 by Carmine Sword

[Baldrick]

If you decide to rebid, I want in have a set number of turns that all your bids must add up to (for argument's sake, 100 so you won't get any handicaps like Carmine's).

[JudgeWargrave]

If Eggclipse posts with no objections, I think its fine to get started. At least we demonstrated that we can start quickly this way!

Maybe I can actually make up a 38 turn deficit, considering Horace has no staff user and Eggclipse hasn't got another unit til like, Chapter 10. Plus, I have Kyle+Forde #saveATurnOn5x

If you decide to rebid, I want in have a set number of turns that all your bids must add up to (for argument's sake, 100 so you won't get any handicaps like Carmine's).

Hmm, I think Carmine's bids were more a product of the unfamiliarity/unknown nature of the format, rather than a flaw of the rules themselves though. Making players have all their bids add to an exact number is probably too strict, but capping it might make sense. But again, I don't think we need a rule to prevent players from doing something they wouldn't be motivated to do in the first place.

Oh, for your interests:

[spoiler=Average bids]

12.3025 Vanessa
10.4850 Franz
9.1225 Artur
7.9900 Tana
7.9775 Saleh
6.4325 Gilliam
6.1725 Lute
5.9825 Garcia
5.3275 Kyle
5.0325 Gerik
4.6250 Forde
4.3425 Ross
4.2225 Moulder
3.7450 Cormag
3.0500 Natasha
2.9875 Joshua
2.7800 Innes
2.5350 Colm
1.9150 Dozla
1.6125 Neimi
1.5175 Duessel
1.3850 Rennac
1.2900 Knoll
1.0550 Amelia
1.0225 L'Arachel
0.9075 Syrene
0.6750 Ewan
0.1025 Marisa

Interesting that Artur beat Tana considering she usually goes third, but maybe she becomes redundant with Vanessa so she loses some value against the chance that you win Vanessa? Maybe best magic user > 2nd best flyer in a format where you can potentially end up with flyers 1 and 2.

[Carmine Sword]

Chapter 3: 5/16

Had Gilliam and Vanessa kill enemies in the way so that Franz could carry Eirika to the throne, where Franz 4HKOed the boss over 2 turns.

Stats:

Eirika Lv. 6.53 18HP/8Str/11Skl/14Spd/8Lck/4Def/2Res C Swords

Franz Lv. 4.02 23HP/10Str/6Skl/10Spd/2Lck/7Def/1Res E Swords D Lances

Gilliam Lv. 4.99 Base

Vanessa Lv. 3.22 19HP/7Str/9Skl/12Spd/6Lck/6Def/6Res D Lances

Chapter 4: 4/20

Could have done this in 3 turns if Artur could ORKO stuff at base and Franz could ORKO the boss, but oh well.

Stats:

Eirika Lv. 7.10 19HP/8Str/12Skl/15Spd/8Lck/4Def/2Res C Swords

Franz Lv. 5.34 24HP/11Str/6Skl/11Str/2Lck/8Def/2Res E Swords D Lances

Gilliam Lv. 6.43 27HP/9Str/7Skl/5Spd/3Lck/10Def/3Res C Lances

Vanessa Lv. 5.42 21HP/8Str/11Skl/14Spd/8Lck/6Def/7Res D Lances

Artur Lv. 4.26 20HP/8Mgc/7Skl/9Spd/4Lck/3Def/8Res E Light

Lute Lv. 1.37 Base

Chapter 5: 4/24

A bit unreliable since Artur needs to dodge some fighters and he can't use a vulnerary on the last turn since he needs to collect the Armorslayer village.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Carmine Sword

[JudgeWargrave]

Prologue: The Fall of Renais - 2/2 turns, 1/1 RNs

Chapter 1: Escape! - 5/7 turns, 1/2 RNs

Chapter 2: The Protected - 5/12 turns, 1/3 RNs

The RNs burned in Chapter 1 and 2 don't save turns, but getting good level ups early will result in fewer RNs burned in the long run, I think. Also I realized after finishing Chapter 2 that I actually could have gotten Garcia onto the fort on turn 2 with better rescue-dropping, but I don't think that shaves a turn, so I left it.

[Carmine Sword]

Chapter 5x: 7/31

Yep.

Chapter 6: 3/34

Bosskill sucked cause Vanessa had to dodge a 70 displayed hit attack from the boss in order to live.

Chapter 7: 4/38

A 3 turn is theoretically possible but it involves Vanessa dodging like 5 or 6 70-80ish displayed hit attacks, so fuck that. Even the 4 turn is kind of iffy since Vanessa still needs to dodge an archer on Turn 3 enemy phase. Franz got stuffed and promoted after the chapter.

Stats:

Eirika Lv. 10.29 21HP/10Str/14Skl/16Spd/11Lck/6Def/3Res C Swords

Franz Lv. 12/1.00 31HP/17Str/16Skl/17Spd/4Lck/13Def/4Res C Swords C Lances

Gilliam Lv. 8.05 29HP/11Str/7Skl/6Spd/3Lck/12Def/3Res C Lances

Vanessa Lv. 9.19 22HP/11Str/12Skl/16Spd/11Lck/8Def/9Res C Lances

Artur Lv. 6.83 22HP/10Mgc/8Skl/11Spd/4Lck/3Def/8Res D Light

Lute Lv. 2.58 18HP/7Mgc/6Skl/8Spd/8Lck/3Def/6Res C Anima

Edited November 5, 2016 by Carmine Sword

[eclipse]

Dammit. I'm going Ephraim's route.

I'll start this later. Like, when it's not midnight here. Thanks for compiling everything~!

EDIT: And screw everything, I LIKE Rennac! Still, getting Ewan might be the key I need to finishing this under 200 turns. Eir solo until the route split, followed by an Eph solo of Chapter 9 will be INTERESTING.

Edited November 5, 2016 by eggclipse

[General Horace]

Prologue - 2/2 turns

Standard clear.

Chapter 1 - 5/7 turns

Eirika chugged vulneraries on the way to the bossguy.

Chapter 2 - 6/13 turns

Eirika went south and killed the bossdude. Vanessa ferried NPC garcia over to kill the reinforcements.

Chapter 3 - 7/20 turns

Eirika + Neimi killed the walls perfectly with the Steel Sword + Iron bow. Gave Seth a Javelin so he could prevent the hand axe guy from attacking Neimi at 1 range while still avoiding combat. She got two decent levels. Eirika needed 8 strength by level 8 to kill the boss without a crit (which was still 4 shots at 14% if she didn't reach 8 strength).

Chapter 4 - 8/28 turns

Deployed Seth to protect Neimi (by blocking enemies from attacking her, and forcing them to attack Eirika, again not entering combat) and deployed Vanessa to scoop Artur up and hide. Eirika went right then down, Neimi hit the one passive zombie and eventually followed suit. Eirika waited for a turn and killed three of the zombie reinforcements after weakening the boss, and Neimi finished the passive one over two turns while Eirika got the dudes by Lute's village. Neimi's got more exp than I expected her to.

UNIT      LEVEL HP ST SK SP LC DF RS WEP LEVEL

EIRIKA    12.18 24 10 13 17 10 07 02 B SWORDS

NEIMI     06.03 20 08 08 10 05 03 05 C BOW

Chapter 5 - 6/34 TURNS

Neimi managed to snag the secret book and fight in the arena on the last turn. Couldn't go right up next to the armourslayer villaged because the archers clogged shit up. Recruited Joshua for the Killing edge, Eirika almost ORKO'd him with an iron sword.

Chapter 5x 7/41 turns

Standard clear. Got a chest key for potential use in Chapter 8.

Chapter 6 - 5/46 turns

Neimi started in the northmost spot, and killed the Javelin soldier and lured the archer on turn 1, so that Eirika would be unempeded after killing everything in her way on turn 2. She ran to Novala and killed him with a Steel Sword, and Neimi picked up a couple stragglers.

Chapter 7 - 7/53 turns

Eirika walked across the water and Neimi did her best not to die. I don't think promoting Neimi is actually going to save any turns because there's no way she can survive while carrying Eirika to the throne so I'm just gonna leave her unpromoted for another map.

Chapter 8 - 8/61 turns

Eirika walked to Tirado and killed him. Promoting Neimi would have saved one turn but she got three levels here which will probably save more in the long run, and it allowed me to get the angelic robe. Ephraim self improved in his corner and cleared a path for Kyle/Forde to escape unscathed with the chest key, so Neimi could use it to open the angelic robe, which she used right away. She promoted in the base of chapter 9. Eirika needed to dodge one of Tirado's attacks at 54 hit, and couldn't get great shielded/miss one of her 79's.

UNIT      LEVEL HP ST SK SP LC DF RS WEP LEVEL

EIRIKA    20.00 31 12 18 20 15 11 02 A SWORDS

EPHRAIM   12.16 30 12 13 15 12 11 06 B LANCES

NEIMI  13/01.00 32 13 13 15 07 07 10 B BOW D SWORD

[eclipse]

Prologue - 2/2

Had to find another RNG string, which screwed up Eir's level.

Chapter 1 - 5/7

See what Horace did, 'cause that's what happened in my file, too.

Chapter 2 - 5?/12

It ended VERY unexpectedly on EP, thanks to a string of Rapier crits and Garcia getting a crit on the initial bandit. Vanessa grabbed Ross, then Moulder took Ross from Vanessa. On turns 2 and 3, Vanessa transferred Garcia over to the bandit reinforcement point. Garcia's job was to draw the bandits, so Eir could kill them. On the final turn, Eir moved on the fort to kill the archer, then everything suicided into her. Except one of the reinforcement bandits, who died to Garcia. Regardless, Eir can now use Seth's Steel Sword.

I don't think I could replicate this nonsense if I tried!

Chapter 3 - 13/25

Part of this was a miscalculation, and part of this was because beating up walls takes forever. Instead, I beat up one wall, then went around and opened the door. The only reason why I'm keeping this is because Eir's got 10 Strength at level 10, and she needs it!

Chapter 4 - 13/38

Unlike the last one, THIS one is supposed to look like this (well. . .MAYBE 12). Still, four of those turns were dedicated to eyeball-hunting, and another two were for backtracking. NOT FUN.

Chapter 5 - 6/44

Eir ORKOs Joshua, so oh well. Walked up to the boss and was able to easily ORKO with a Rapier. This one was tight, because Eir's PP consisted of chugging Vulneraries, while the enemies kept her at single-digit HP after their phases.

Edited November 5, 2016 by eggclipse

[Carmine Sword]

Chapter 8: 7/45

Had to take 2 extra turns to get the Elysian Whip. The boss kill was awful since Erika had to dodge Tirado's Silver Lance (which OHKOs her) at 63 displayed hit and one of the mages at 50 displayed hit on two separate turns to live. Franz couldn't kill Tirado since he had to go collect the Whip with help from Vanessa.

Stats:

Eirika Lv. 11.71 21HP/10Str/15Skl/16Spd/11Lck/6Def/4Res B Swords

Franz Lv. 12/2.44 32HP/18Str/17Skl/18Spd/5Lck/13Def/4Res C Swords C Lances

Gilliam Lv. 9.32 30HP/11Str/8Skl/6Spd/4Lck/12Def/3Res B Lances

Vanessa Lv. 10/1.00 25HP/13Str/13Skl/19Spd/11Lck/10Def/10Res B Lances

Artur Lv. 9.74 23HP/12Mgc/10Skl/14Spd/5Lck/4Def/9Res D Light

Lute Lv. 5.23 20HP/10Mgc/6Skl/11Spd/9Lck/3Def/8Res C Anima

[SB.]

There's a fixed RN string for Eirika soloing Prologue-Chapter 2 in 2/5/5 turns eclipse, but I don't remember it anymore at all.

[Carmine Sword]

You literally only have to burn 1 RN to 2 turn the prologue. The string is literally right there.

Chapter 9: 7/52

Vanessa went down and killed everything down south while Franz went ahead and killed a few enemies while Artur cleaned up the scraps. Lute and Eirika killed the pirates near the start.

Chapter 10: 3/55

Vanessa can't ORKO the boss, so RIP 2 turn, which I almost could have done since I have Tana and Vanessa lol.

Stats:

Eirika Lv. 12.24 24HP/10Str/16Skl/17Spd/12Lck/7Def/4Res B Swords

Franz Lv. 12/3.64 33HP/19Str/18Skl/18Spd/5Lck/13Def/4Res C Swords B Lances

Gilliam Lv. 10.24 31HP/12Str/8Skl/7Spd/4Lck/12Def/3Res B Lances

Vanessa Lv. 10/4.58 28HP/15Str/16Skl/21Spd/15Lck/13Def/12Res A Lances

Artur Lv. 12/1.00 28HP/16Mgc/13Skl/16Spd/6Lck/8Def/13Res B Light C Staves

Lute Lv. 6.74 21HP/11Mgc/6Skl/12Spd/10Lck/3Def/8Res C Anima

Tana Lv. 5.92 8Str/10Skl/14Spd/8Lck/6Def/8Res D Lances

Gerik Lv. 10/1.00 35HP/16Str/14Skl/14Spd/8Lck/13Def/7Res C Swords D Bows

Tethys Lv. 1.00 Base

Edited November 6, 2016 by Carmine Sword

[eclipse]

I got the first part down, but then Eir refused to crit. This happened multiple times, so I just said "screw it", and found another RN that gave a crit.

Anyway. . .just how mad will everyone be if I start playing fast and loose with the rules?