Tellius Recollection (Vol 2) Translation / Discussion Thread

[NJ7009]

26 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

Huh... Wait, is this just an inconsistency with writing? Because in Soren x Stefan support:

I mean, he appears to be 16ish from his artwork and all, so I think he must be older than that if he's saying that he noticed he wasn't aging normally 3 years ago.

The thing is, Soren is often grouped alongside other young characters in the game.

Take Devdan. He can only be recruited by child units (Tormod - I think he's 13, Mist - 14, Sothe - 13/14, Rolf - 12 and Soren). So, in verse, Soren looks young enough to be grouped with a bunch of 13 year olds. This also fits what he says in his support with Stefan. 

Tibarn also calls both him and Mist children, even though (if the book is correct) he has the appearance of a sixteen year old, only a year younger than Ike.

I think he looks sixteen in his art too but characters in game seem to think he looks younger than that.

(But we are getting off topic. Great work so far Kirokan! Thanks for taking the time to translate everything!)

Edited March 7, 2017 by Elementia

[Kirokan]

The ages are a little whacky in the book, hence why they write "planned/designed age" (which I translated as "approximate"). It is based solely on human appearance. The few that don't are the only ones they have set in stone.

Today's!

072 Calill

6 hours ago, Elementia said:

The thing is, Soren is often grouped alongside other young characters in the game.

Take Devdan. He can only be recruited by child units (Tormod - I think he's 13, Mist - 14, Sothe - 13/14, Rolf - 12 and Soren). So, in verse, Soren looks young enough to be grouped with a bunch of 13 year olds. This also fits what he says in his support with Stefan. 

Tibarn also calls both him and Mist children, even though (if the book is correct) he has the appearance of a sixteen year old, only a year younger than Ike.

I think he looks sixteen in his art too but characters in game seem to think he looks younger than that.

(But we are getting off topic. Great work so far Kirokan! Thanks for taking the time to translate everything!)

You're welcome : ) I don't mind off topic so long as it stays civil. In this case I'd say it still relates to the book, considering the ages are in question after all.

[Extrasolar]

7 hours ago, Elementia said:

The thing is, Soren is often grouped alongside other young characters in the game.

Take Devdan. He can only be recruited by child units (Tormod - I think he's 13, Mist - 14, Sothe - 13/14, Rolf - 12 and Soren). So, in verse, Soren looks young enough to be grouped with a bunch of 13 year olds. This also fits what he says in his support with Stefan. 

Tibarn also calls both him and Mist children, even though (if the book is correct) he has the appearance of a sixteen year old, only a year younger than Ike.

I think he looks sixteen in his art too but characters in game seem to think he looks younger than that.

(But we are getting off topic. Great work so far Kirokan! Thanks for taking the time to translate everything!)

But then again, Soren definitely doesn't know his actual age. He could just have guessed four, but could be at least a few years older if slow aging is a thing from birth.

On the other side, yeah, there is evidence that he's seen as younger than 16 by other characters, and I suppose his conversation/scene sprite is much smaller than Ike, who's meant to be only a year older than him if he's meant to look 16. Of course, Soren could also just be short...

Too bad anime art isn't conducive to how old characters really look, lol.

 

16 minutes ago, Kirokan said:

Today's!

072 Calill

I always thought it was sweet how Calill came in Largo's place to help Elincia when he couldn't come. Plus her relationship with Aimee is just too cute.

Not to mention, her supports with Tormod are downright hilarious. A shame that they never interacted in Radiant Dawn so he could show her how far he's come...and also a shame that Tormod straight-up vanishes for the longest time. I will never get past that. ;-;

EDIT: RE this: 162-163 Kieran and Makalov

Just realized that Kieran's helmet having little horns is probably a reference to Cain (whom he's meant to be based off of anyway) being "The Bull." Well played, Intelligent Systems, well played.

Edited March 8, 2017 by Extrasolar

[Samias]

On 3/7/2017 at 8:58 AM, Extrasolar said:

Yeah, IIRC the Tellius Recollection says that Dragon Branded tend to live roughly 185 years, Lion Branded 94 years, and Tigers 65 years (not like that's an amazingly long time, but I guess for the time...) Wow... Soren would have a lot of time without Ike after about 60 or so years... That's kind of a sad thought. I'm not sure Soren could handle losing Ike that way...

Dheginsea has to be over 1000. He was already a fully-grown, huge dragon during the war with Yune, which was roughly 1000 years before POR. I believe that dragon lifespans are said to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 2000 years? Kurth is the youngest dragon at 100 in Radiant Dawn, and in the Recollection he's supposed to look 17, so I imagine that middle age looking Dheginsea is at least 1500 - 1700 or so.

Micaiah was never a part of Begnion theocracy in her youth; the furthest back we get of her backstory, she was a fortune-teller in Daein and met Sothe in Nevassa, so I assume that she was born and raised in Daein, or was taken there very early on in her life.. She didn't learn of her connection to Sanaki and Misha until Radiant Dawn.

The thing is, since Micaiah and Sanaki are siblings it would be strange for their mother to just take off to Daein. Sephiran has conversations remarking how things would be different had he known Micaiah still lived, implying he knew she was born and then put into a dire situation, such as being stolen away by someone in the chaos of Misaha's assassination with the intent to leave her to die. The senators also seem to know Micaiah is the real heir, as they know Sanaki does not hear the voice of the goddess.

If Micaiah was just a baby at the time, it would be reasonable that she wouldn't remember anything about Begnion.

[Interdimensional Observer]

I don't think we should completely trust absolutely everything the recollection books say. Things like the all-too-rosy Laguz-Crimea relations (which contradicts Blood Runs Red) in one of them suggests that some of this is beta lore.

[Junkhead]

But Mist is 15. )0

[Kirokan]

5 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I don't think we should completely trust absolutely everything the recollection books say. Things like the all-too-rosy Laguz-Crimea relations (which contradicts Blood Runs Red) in one of them suggests that some of this is beta lore.

I think the beta-lore is mostly in the Path of Radiance one, which makes sense as it would be their first foray into Tellius. By the time Radiant Dawn comes along they have a more narrow framework to work within.

But yes, as there are mistakes here and there, it's fine to have a healthy bit of skepticism! Treat the game as the primary source (though then silly Japan/English differences come in, especially for FE10...)

(Just don't make me feel I may have wasted all this time for info that can't even be taken seriously! xD)

((I joke, I know that wasn't your intention : ) ))

Edited March 9, 2017 by Kirokan

[Extrasolar]

46 minutes ago, Kirokan said:

I think the beta-lore is mostly in the Path of Radiance one, which makes sense as it would be their first foray into Tellius. By the time Radiant Dawn comes along they have a more narrow framework to work within.

But yes, as there are mistakes here and there, it's fine to have a healthy bit of skepticism! Treat the game as the primary source (though then silly Japan/English differences come in, especially for FE10...)

(Just don't make me feel I may have wasted all this time for info that can't even be taken seriously! xD)

((I joke, I know that wasn't your intention : ) ))

I've always wondered why the English version of FE10 cut the extended script that the Japanese had for the harder difficulties... I have a feeling that a lot of the lore that's included in the books were somewhere in there too.

[Interdimensional Observer]

2 hours ago, Kirokan said:

(Just don't make me feel I may have wasted all this time for info that can't even be taken seriously! xD)

Didn't intend that at all of course. I appreciate you taking the time to do this, I like this kind of stuff. Plus, even the beta is interesting- I've read every article SF has on the unused content found in each game's data.

And now I'm just going to offer a reminder that the apparent age thing may have been done partly to leave the ages up to the player's imagination to determine. And then I'm going to point out, from one of the notes Jugdral notes available on SF, this:

Finally, there is a final word from Kaga who mentions that every player has their own story; the discussions here are just a few of these stories, they aren’t supposed to be the true answers or settings.

Intelligent Systems creates wonderful worlds in Fire Emblem for us players to be fascinated by. And while these worlds invariably belong to their creators, once we have engaged with them we fans, with our petty but still valuable imaginations, craft our own.

[Junkhead]

Yeah, that's totally not a lazy answer.  

[Kirokan]

So today I took a quick detour and did 103 Kyza

Apparently he has quite the feminine side! I don't recall that in the game, so will have to dig into the Japanese one to see if it was a translation change. However, if you recall me translating "ladies' man" on his concept art page, I have revised that translation to more what it literally means, "feminine [man]" after translating this profile.

Relative to the other male tigers, I suppose he is quite "feminine" indeed.

21 hours ago, Extrasolar said:

I've always wondered why the English version of FE10 cut the extended script that the Japanese had for the harder difficulties... I have a feeling that a lot of the lore that's included in the books were somewhere in there too.

I got the game script (with both extended dialogue and not) from VincentASM, as I hope my next project will be doing the full translation/look into it for the chapters he didn't add them for, yet. There is plenty of dialogue for fans to look at! So that will probably be my project until the next artbook comes alone (though I do want to do Akaneia Chronicles at some point too...)

[Extrasolar]

44 minutes ago, Kirokan said:

So today I took a quick detour and did 103 Kyza

Apparently he has quite the feminine side! I don't recall that in the game, so will have to dig into the Japanese one to see if it was a translation change. However, if you recall me translating "ladies' man" on his concept art page, I have revised that translation to more what it literally means, "feminine [man]" after translating this profile.

Relative to the other male tigers, I suppose he is quite "feminine" indeed.

Wait, Kyza's supposed to look 19? I pegged him to be looking in his mid-late 20s at least.

Uh...about Kyza. He's...got a few, uh, unfortunate stereotypes in his original Japanese incarnation.

It's more evident in the original "Cat Fight" base conversation.

As far as I'm concerned, making him obsessively bureaucratic and stuffy in the localization was a huge step up from the original. Just wish he had gotten more screen time...and was a more useful unit.
 

44 minutes ago, Kirokan said:

I got the game script (with both extended dialogue and not) from VincentASM, as I hope my next project will be doing the full translation/look into it for the chapters he didn't add them for, yet. There is plenty of dialogue for fans to look at! So that will probably be my project until the next artbook comes alone (though I do want to do Akaneia Chronicles at some point too...)

Oh, cool! Definitely looking forward to that one. Can't wait to see all the stuff us western nerds missed out on.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Extrasolar

[Interdimensional Observer]

So Heather isn't alone in the LGBTQ world in FE- Devdan/Danved and Kyza are both supposed to be as well. I'm actually pleased that NoA opted to write it out of Kyza and Devdan (albeit Devdan's replacement trait isn't much better) rather than leave them as potentially offensive stereotypes. Ideally, I'd like NoA to keep the orientation of LGBTQ characters intact, but change them to be less stereotypical and more realistic. Of course, to do that would require an understanding the LGBTQ community of some depth and maybe asking for advice/assistance from a few of its members on the matter- but that'd be too much effort unfortunately.

Spoiler

Also, reading the comments there, I saw the direct translation of PoR's Ike-Soren A support, and I can see the clear difference at the very end. That, plus Soren's death quotes seem to offer decent evidence that he is potentially gay. However! I still assert we cannot truly say whether he is or not. (Not that it bothers me either way what he is.)

For one, Ike is still Soren's savior, and if every man who was ever extremely devoted to a male savior was called gay- then what is to be made of Christianity? Countless men have quaked to the depths of their souls with their love of Jesus. (No intentions of getting political here!)

Second, I offer a counterfactual to contemplate. If Soren had people he could open up to other than Ike, would he be so intensely attached to Ike? Could it partly be he is so friendless and inept at making friends, that he funnels all his yearnings for someone who he can talk to/ease his loneliness into Ike? If he had other people who could absorb some of those yearnings, would he be have a more normal friendship with Ike?

And what is the difference between a deep platonic friendship and a true marital love anyhow? If it is a desire for sexual relations- then how the heck can we know whether Soren wants that with Ike!?! That we can't know because IS doesn't give us such a vivid look into Soren's mind or have him expressly say "I wish I could wed Ike".

This is the second time I've written a detailed analysis on IkexSoren. What can be said? Soren is a favorite character of mine.

My apologies Kirokan if that is a bit of derailment.

[Extrasolar]

42 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

So Heather isn't alone in the LGBTQ world in FE- Devdan/Danved and Kyza are both supposed to be as well.

Heather is the most tastefully-written out of all of them, so it make sense why Treehouse left her be. But as for LGBT people, don't forget about Niles and Rhajat! Both bisexual.

42 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

albeit Devdan's replacement trait isn't much better)

Yeah.... Not sure why they made him "slow in the head" and gave him such an odd...manner as a way to get rid of any stereotypes in him being an effeminate (implied) gay man...the former can be just as offensive as the latter, if one thinks about it.

42 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Ideally, I'd like NoA to keep the orientation of LGBTQ characters intact, but change them to be less stereotypical and more realistic. Of course, to do that would require an understanding the LGBTQ community of some depth and maybe asking for advice/assistance from a few of its members on the matter- but that'd be too much effort

Plus, the characters in question don't have the most screen time to develop their characters in the world...

42 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Second, I offer a counterfactual to contemplate. If Soren had people he could open up to other than Ike, would he be so intensely attached to Ike? Could it partly be he is so friendless and inept at making friends, that he funnels all his yearnings for someone who he can talk to/ease his loneliness into Ike? If he had other people who could absorb some of those yearnings, would he be have a more normal friendship with Ike?

I think...no, and yes. Soren will always be intensely grateful to Ike for rescuing him from certain death, but a lot of Soren's love for Ike is the fact that Ike was the first person in his life to treat him with anything resembling kindness. If he had been treated better in his youth pre-Ike, I definitely think he would be much more open to interacting with other people. It's his rejection that I see as having led to the cold, blunt, rude and antisocial Soren that we see today. The guy absolutely refuses to open up to anyone because he knows that there's something "wrong" with him and others will know eventually, and shun him for it. (Or so he thinks, since the laguz he met in Gallia did.)

42 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

My apologies Kirokan if that is a bit of derailment.

You should do some analysis in my localization and cultural translation thread if you want to talk more about the differences between the Japanese and originals in-depth, That would be pretty fun to read. *shameless thread pimping*

Edited March 10, 2017 by Extrasolar

[Anacybele]

Since when was Devdan/Danved LGBT+? I thought he was just mentally weird.

Ike being the first person to treat Soren with any kindness doesn't mean Soren's in love with him. I will bring you back to my friendship duo from my fic, Bryan and Skye. Other than Bryan's father, Skye was literally the first person to show Bryan any kindness or compassion. Bryan was also the first close friend Skye ever made as well. Yet, they were never gay for one another. Bryan falls for and marries a woman, and Skye also has a girlfriend for a period of time (until they had some issues maintaining the relationship. They still loved one another, it just became too hard to remain an actual couple). Yet, they're perfectly realistic. (note, not all of this has been written yet, some of it is still in the planning stages. But it won't be changed, I assure you)

You don't have to fall in love with the first person who does important event X for you.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Anacybele

[Extrasolar]

20 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Since when was Devdan/Danved LGBT+? I thought he was just mentally weird.

He's implied to be gay in the original Japanese, just based on his (stereotypical) mannerisms. In the original, he has an extremely effeminate way of speaking (he uses the first-person pronoun "Atashi," which is the usual pronoun used by extremely cute women who are trying to sound cuter), and in general the joke around him is that he acts coy and suggestive about it.

The localization team got rid of this angle and made him kind of...mentally slow, instead, so that he comes off as off-kilter and strange just as he does in the original. Not sure if that's the best route they could have taken, but...
 

23 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Ike being the first person to treat Soren with any kindness doesn't mean Soren's in love with him.

Yeah, just to be clear I think that Ike/Soren is platonic as well. Just that Soren's intense attachment to Ike is a result of Ike being the first person to treat him well. Have you read the Japanese versions of Ike/Soren support? It's...got a different tone, in that Soren is a lot more low-key and quiet in Japanese than he is in English. Seems more damaged and quiet than outright bitter.

[Anacybele]

5 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

He's implied to be gay in the original Japanese, just based on his (stereotypical) mannerisms. In the original, he has an extremely effeminate way of speaking (he uses the first-person pronoun "Atashi," which is the usual pronoun used by extremely cute women who are trying to sound cuter), and in general the joke around him is that he acts coy and suggestive about it.

The localization team got rid of this angle and made him kind of...mentally slow, instead, so that he comes off as off-kilter and strange just as he does in the original. Not sure if that's the best route they could have taken, but...
 

Yeah, just to be clear I think that Ike/Soren is platonic as well. Just that Soren's intense attachment to Ike is a result of Ike being the first person to treat him well. Have you read the Japanese versions of Ike/Soren support? It's...got a different tone, in that Soren is a lot more low-key and quiet in Japanese than he is in English. Seems more damaged and quiet than outright bitter.

I thought that was what Kyza was supposed to be. o.O Kirokan's translation of him even says he was supposed to talk more like a woman. I'm confused now.

And no, I didn't. I did read Japanese Ike x Elincia though, and...I disliked both as characters there. They came off as robots with little personality compared to the English one. This is a reason I feel IS should've rolled with the English translation if they ever saw it and made Ike x Elincia a thing. They were much better written as close and possibly falling in love friends.

In English, Ike says something like "no...it means more than that. Elincia, to my dying breath, I'll make your dream come true!" And Elincia replies "Oh, my lord Ike..." at the end of the A support. See the fondness the two developed for one another in those lines alone?

In Japanese, they're basically just "I'll fight for you until we win." "Thank you, Lord Ike." Big difference here. I wanted to yawn.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Anacybele

[Extrasolar]

4 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I thought that was what Kyza was supposed to be. o.O Kirokan's translation of him even says he was supposed to talk more like a woman. I'm confused now.

Both Kyza and Danved/Devdan were this way, though Danved/Devdan isn't quite as overt about it. Kyza had an actual target of his affection (Ranulf), but Devdan/Danved was still the same way through his speech.

6 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

And no, I didn't. I did read Japanese Ike x Elincia though, and...I disliked both as characters there. They came off as robots with little personality compared to the English one.

Here it is! (I couldn't resist.)

Ike seems roughly the same in that he's straightforward and blunt between versions, but seems to speak a bit more formally or restrained in the Japanese. English seemed to spice up and relax  the dialogue all-around, going off the literal translation.

Also I don't want them to be paired up because Geoffrey x Elincia forever, so them being completely platonic like in the Japanese is better imo

[Anacybele]

Sorry, not interested in reading it since I don't like Ike and Soren as a pairing. Also, we've been through the shipping thing, let's not start it up again...

[Extrasolar]

3 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Sorry, not interested in reading it since I don't like Ike and Soren as a pairing. Also, we've been through the shipping thing, let's not start it up again...

I don't like them as a pairing either. I just think the changes in characterization and tone are interesting. That's all I wanted you to see, but never mind. >.>

and you started talking about pairings first so don't blame me

[Anacybele]

3 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

I don't like them as a pairing either. I just think the changes in characterization and tone are interesting. That's all I wanted you to see, but never mind. >.>

and you started talking about pairings first so don't blame me

But that doesn't mean I was trying to start a shipping war/argument or anything... But sorry anyway.

[Augestein]

I thought devdan was just supposed to be weird more than necessarily gay. Which is why they had him do goofy things like flip his name backwards. He never seemed dumb, just eccentric.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Augestein

[Kirokan]

Today is Lyre! (In case you're wondering, I've been super busy so doing shorter profiles xD)

104 Lyre

On 3/9/2017 at 6:28 PM, Extrasolar said:

Wait, Kyza's supposed to look 19? I pegged him to be looking in his mid-late 20s at least.

Uh...about Kyza. He's...got a few, uh, unfortunate stereotypes in his original Japanese incarnation.

It's more evident in the original "Cat Fight" base conversation.

As far as I'm concerned, making him obsessively bureaucratic and stuffy in the localization was a huge step up from the original. Just wish he had gotten more screen time...and was a more useful unit.
 

Oh, cool! Definitely looking forward to that one. Can't wait to see all the stuff us western nerds missed out on.

You know, I love that blog and have read all of its articles --or so I thought! Since I don't remember seeing that one. Well it saves me the trouble for sure! xD I'll have to reblog that at some point to make more people aware. : ) Thanks!

Edited March 11, 2017 by Kirokan

[Anacybele]

I like Lyre's design more than Lethe's, but I like Lethe's personality more. Thus, I don't know who of the two I like better. xP

[Junkhead]

Why are people so literal. It's obvious they meant he's just femenine or might even be a homosexual. I'm rooting for the former, since it's possible to be femenine without being homosexual.