How many people would prefer another tellius-styled narrative as opposed to another fates?

[Dinar87]

And when I say "Tellius styled" I don't just mean proper character development or keeping fantasy elements to a minimum. I also mean things like the base conversations returning (which fleshed out some characters a bit more and helped world building somewhat).

Given that I've explained that, what style of story do you want in the next fire emblem? How do you want the story to be handled next time? Should there be children or marriage at all or would those elements conflict with the immersion if they get another bad explanation? Let me know....if you want...maybe.

However, bare in mind that although I've said stuff like the tellius series has some character development, as I haven't play fates yet, I could be dead wrong and fates too has such development. If it does I'd like to know about it!

Edited November 7, 2016 by Dinar87

[Magical Glace]

Where's "FE8 style"

[Dinar87]

Where's "FE8 style"

Done. It's been added!

[twice]

While I wouldn't mind a more Tellius style, I voted "None of them...something different!"

[Thane]

This is an incredibly vague question. What makes something "Tellius-styled"? Character development is not something unique to a few entries in this franchise. I've got no real idea of what you're asking.

Do I want kids removed? Yeah. Do I want base conversations and a more fleshed out world? Of course. However, I don't see how that makes the entire story "Tellius-style".

[MCProductions]

I voted FE8 style, tho I'd prefer how Tearring Saga handled the narrative to be prefectly honest, even if it went WAY too fucking far with the dialouge at points. Seriously, no other game has screamed in agony for some sort of voice acting more than fucking TRS

[KMT4ever]

I voted FE-8 style because I still think it's the best-executed Fire Emblem plot. It's not the most original basic idea, but the way IS handled all of the characters (especially Lyon and the twins) made it amazing.

If not that I'd like to see Radiant Dawn Part 2: The Game. I think what Fire Emblem could use now is a story that doesn't focus on some crazy world-threatening evil like Medeus or Ashera. Keep it simple, an "ordinary" war and how it affects both the commoners and the royalty trying to keep everything together. IMO apocalyptic threats tend to take up too much of the plot's focus and leave main character development for the supports. Path of Radiance primarily from Elincia's perspective would have been a better game than what we got.

[Dragoncat]

How did Tellius "keep fantasy elements to a minimum"? There's magic and shapeshifters and dragons etc. Sounds like a lot of fantasy to me.

Tellius style gets my vote. World building is always good. I don't mind the "world's gonna be destroyed unless we do something about it" plots, but I wouldn't mind having a more realistic war plot. As long as it doesn't take away the fantasy elements.

[Etrurian emperor]

If I recall correctly then you have already many several topics of a similar nature to this one. I'm guessing you will be hearing a lot of the same answers as a result.

Story wise Awakening and Fates certainly aren't ideal but there is little reason to believe that the stories will stay like that. If its a recurring criticism then it just makes sense to fix the story. There's actually very little reason not to improve the story.

But IS does need to learn a lesson before the story gets better. They said they wanted Fates to be the game that fixed the weak story of Awakening but they also wanted a lot of other things. They also wanted a lot of prominent fan service and returning Awakening features that eventually ensured the story had to take a backseat. What can be learned from Fates is that you just can't have it all. The very negative reception of those things might ensure that IS dials back on those a little and thus free the way for a better story.

I don't see Fates and Awakening's stories as a trend with the deliberate intent to distance itself from the more story orientated Tellius games. I see their stories as victims of circumstances. Awakening was meant to be the last Fire emblem game so they had to include as many things as possible, maybe even combining the story ideas of two Ylisse games. Fates tried to juggle to many balls in the air, from 3 stories, to fanservice, to Awakening features. These are problems easily fixed by some balance in the development team and in some cases a little more self respect. If this is done I see no reason why the stories can't improve, if not to the level of the Tellius games than at least to the level of the GBA games.

I'm fine with the marriage and children being in the next game under the one condition that it fits the story and that there's nothing convoluted about it. In other words, a time skip. They already used time travel and a hyperbolic time chamber so there aren't any other ways left for the children to be barely younger, if not outright older than their parents. The only acceptable result is for the older gen to age when a newer one comes into play.

In the end a story like Tellius has my preference but I've never considered myself to picky. I want an improvement over Fates and Awakening but if that improvement is ''merely'' a story on par with the GBA games instead of Tellius I'd be perfectly satisfied too.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Etrurian emperor

[Loki Laufeyson]

I had an idea.

Something that kinda combines all these styles into one game. But it would be executed more like FE8.

Say the game has an avatar, lets call them Shiloh. Upon Shiloh creation, you are prompted to not just give them a name, voice, and appearance but also Temperament. There are three different Temperaments.

Courageous

Pragmatic

Empath

Choosing one will actually dictate what kind of personality your Shiloh would have. Not only that, but it actually determines the path they take and what characters join them and when. Example: Courageous allows for you to get the Jeigan type paladin (lets call him Edmund) on your team from the get-go. Pragmatic, Edmund doesnt join, but sends his apprentice, Louis to join you. (who is a cav) And on this path, you get a sorc character (lets call her Genevieve) around chapter 7. She wouldnt join you on any other path in the game. However, not all chapters are completely different depending on Temperament. More in Sacred Stones style, only half or so of the game would differ vastly from each other. Each path's endgame is different but a lot of chapters would be the same maps but with maybe different characters or objectives on them.

Temperament would also determine who you can support with for an S rank. Shiloh/Avatar would be able to A support just about everyone, but not S. A Pragmatic Avatar wouldnt get along that much with that really sweet hearted cleric character after all. Just how a Courageous Avatar wouldnt be able to marry/S support that grifty ass thief character. Empath Avatar would NOT be able to marry/S support just everybody either, despite that path getting the most characters. It would vary and would add to people trying out new Temperaments.

Temperaments would also determine reclass options for the Avatar. Courageous getting cav line, cleric/priest, peg knight, etc. Pragmatic getting thief lines, durgin riders, dark mage, etc. Empath getting swordmaster, merc, and two classes from the other temperaments. (like cav or sorc) So its not just a story choice but a gameplay one.

And it wouldnt be sold as three different games.

As for thematic elements in the narrative, i think it should be mostly politically charged with high fantasy elements. The Big Bad could be some kind of living deity or something, but its not bend on world destruction as much as making it in their image which depends on what Temperament you pick.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Loki Laufeyson

[Magical Glace]

I voted FE-8 style because I still think it's the best-executed Fire Emblem plot. It's not the most original basic idea, but the way IS handled all of the characters (especially Lyon and the twins) made it amazing.

Yeah, this is pretty much why I asked for FE8 to be an option in the first place. Almost everything is so well done, even if it's simple. I can't help but feel that FE tends to do better with simple plots in terms of execution.

There's also the fact I feel FE8's main cast is the strongest in the series. As much as I love Roy, a lot of his character is in supports and not the main story, while Ephraim and Eirika's characters are more connected to the story itself.

[Florete]

Gonna have to echo concerns over what the differences here really are. I can maybe sorta kinda see the difference between Fates/Awakening style and Tellius style, but what is FE8 style? How is it different from others, especially the other GBA games?

Ultimately the story-telling "style" in the series has never really changed and the differences one might be able to point out are too minor to really make any one "style" better than the other.

[Jave]

I actually find the story telling style in the Tellius games to be the worst in the series, mainly because of the actual dialogue. Most characters try way too hard to sound medieval, there are comical one-liners inserted at the completely wrong places ("Rancid butter") and other lines that are plain cringe-worthy ("The beasts wish to consume me!").

It's hard to explain, but there's something about the way characters speak in the Tellius games that just rubs me the wrong way. I'm glad that ever since FE11 the localizing teams have chosen to use a more casual style of conversation and has pretty much become the norm, because when characters talk to each other in FE11/13/14, I actually buy it. I guess that's the problem with the Tellius games. Nobody talks like that in real life, so I can't really find a way to "connect" with these characters (if that made any sense).

[Loki Laufeyson]

I actually find the story telling style in the Tellius games to be the worst in the series, mainly because of the actual dialogue. Most characters try way too hard to sound medieval, there are comical one-liners inserted at the completely wrong places ("Rancid butter") and other lines that are plain cringe-worthy ("The beasts wish to consume me!").

It's hard to explain, but there's something about the way characters speak in the Tellius games that just rubs me the wrong way. I'm glad that ever since FE11 the localizing teams have chosen to use a more casual style of conversation and has pretty much become the norm, because when characters talk to each other in FE11/13/14, I actually buy it. I guess that's the problem with the Tellius games. Nobody talks like that in real life, so I can't really find a way to "connect" with these characters (if that made any sense).

thats a shame, cuz i always enjoyed the dialogue in Tellius because of its almost Shakespearean tone and quality. Its hammy af and at times really hilarious. "Moldy onions, where did they go?" and the sheer gold that was Bastian's lines. The theatrical style just...it charmed me.

Edited November 8, 2016 by Loki Laufeyson

[BANRYU]

I voted Tellius because I liked the base conversations in those games (Fates and Awakening would have benefitted a lot from that IMO, IE comforting Felicia after Flora dies in Birthright, etc), but really, I'm fine with any format so long as it's done well.

there aren't any other ways left for the children to be barely younger, if not outright older than their parents. The only acceptable result is for the older gen to age when a newer one comes into play.

Yeah, I would be totally fine with this too! I got really excited to see Ike in Radiant Dawn because I was just like.... 'holy crap, he actually aged! he looks older and badass now!' That was a thing I wasn't used to video games and anime doing, haha (though to be fair I probably didn't get enough exposure to the right stuff at the time). But yeah, I love seeing worlds grow and develop and change, so I would be super down with seeing older versions of a parent generation that way.

Let the story be organic, y'know?

[Avalanche]

If by "Tellius" you mean "a simple, well told story with likeable characters", then yes, I would love it. I'm mostly referring to PoR here, RDs plot is not exactly something IS should attempt again, especially after the overall quality of Fates" stories.

Edited November 8, 2016 by Avalanche

[Jave]

thats a shame, cuz i always enjoyed the dialogue in Tellius because of its almost Shakespearean tone and quality. Its hammy af and at times really hilarious. "Moldy onions, where did they go?" and the sheer gold that was Bastian's lines. The theatrical style just...it charmed me.

Yeah, I think I can see what they were going for, but I'm still not a fan since it felt rather inconsistent and even out of place at some moments. I do like it on characters like Bastian since it really fits the nature of the character. I feel similar with characters like Virion and Inigo/Lazlow in the newer games.

[NekoKnight]

Dynar87 "Do you want another Tellius game" Threads: Every day until you like it

But yes, give me another political drama with lots of world building, base conversations and likable characters.

Choosing one will actually dictate what kind of personality your Shiloh would have. Not only that, but it actually determines the path they take and what characters join them and when. Example: Courageous allows for you to get the Jeigan type paladin (lets call him Edmund) on your team from the get-go. Pragmatic, Edmund doesnt join, but sends his apprentice, Louis to join you. (who is a cav) And on this path, you get a sorc character (lets call her Genevieve) around chapter 7. She wouldnt join you on any other path in the game. However, not all chapters are completely different depending on Temperament. More in Sacred Stones style, only half or so of the game would differ vastly from each other. Each path's endgame is different but a lot of chapters would be the same maps but with maybe different characters or objectives on them.

Temperament would also determine who you can support with for an S rank. Shiloh/Avatar would be able to A support just about everyone, but not S. A Pragmatic Avatar wouldnt get along that much with that really sweet hearted cleric character after all. Just how a Courageous Avatar wouldnt be able to marry/S support that grifty ass thief character. Empath Avatar would NOT be able to marry/S support just everybody either, despite that path getting the most characters. It would vary and would add to people trying out new Temperaments.

Temperaments would also determine reclass options for the Avatar. Courageous getting cav line, cleric/priest, peg knight, etc. Pragmatic getting thief lines, durgin riders, dark mage, etc. Empath getting swordmaster, merc, and two classes from the other temperaments. (like cav or sorc) So its not just a story choice but a gameplay one.

Personally I'd prefer that class sets not be dictated by personality (why give me an Avatar if I can't freely choose the class I like?) but I'd be on board for branching stories and support pools limited by personality type.

thats a shame, cuz i always enjoyed the dialogue in Tellius because of its almost Shakespearean tone and quality. Its hammy af and at times really hilarious. "Moldy onions, where did they go?" and the sheer gold that was Bastian's lines. The theatrical style just...it charmed me.

I really like games/media that give us that fantasy medieval feeling in the dialogue, such as Game of Thrones, Berserk or the earlier Fire Emblem games. I feel something was lost when the later Fire Emblems (just 3DS era?) starting using modern sounding expressions. It pulls me out of the world.

[Dinar87]

Dynar87 "Do you want another Tellius game" Threads: Every day until you like it

But yes, give me another political drama with lots of world building, base conversations and likable characters.

Personally I'd prefer that class sets not be dictated by personality (why give me an Avatar if I can't freely choose the class I like?) but I'd be on board for branching stories and support pools limited by personality type.

I really like games/media that give us that fantasy medieval feeling in the dialogue, such as Game of Thrones, Berserk or the earlier Fire Emblem games. I feel something was lost when the later Fire Emblems (just 3DS era?) starting using modern sounding expressions. It pulls me out of the world.

Well the reason I make threads about the tellius games so much isn't because I want to shove it down your guys' throats until you accept it...it's because I only make topics about what I like and questions that interest me. It just so happens that that sub series of fire emblem is the one that interests me the most...hence why I keep making topics about it.

How did Tellius "keep fantasy elements to a minimum"? There's magic and shapeshifters and dragons etc. Sounds like a lot of fantasy to me.

Tellius style gets my vote. World building is always good. I don't mind the "world's gonna be destroyed unless we do something about it" plots, but I wouldn't mind having a more realistic war plot. As long as it doesn't take away the fantasy elements.

I probably should've said that it kept fantasy elements to a minimum relatively speaking...sure it had laguz, magic and gods but it also had a sense of realism with the way it handled its world, wars and characters. Sure it wasn't 100% realistic (far from it) but I think it was a lot better and more believable than the likes of awakening in this area. Not to say awakening is a bad game though.

If by "Tellius" you mean "a simple, well told story with likeable characters", then yes, I would love it. I'm mostly referring to PoR here, RDs plot is not exactly something IS should attempt again, especially after the overall quality of Fates" stories.

That's almost exactly what I mean. I essentially just want a PoR 2.0 and RD, with it's splitting of the armies and stuff, wasn't exactly perfect for me. Still amazing imo though.

And as for what "tellius-styled" means? It means proper character development (cough Jill cough Elincia COUGH) and an actually interesting story that deals with mature themes rather than "oh noez an evil dragon! Let's go kill it!". Note that I'm mainly speaking about awakening as I haven't played fates yet. Alternatively I could've said fe8 as that was pretty good as well but with less fantasy elements for next time. I have not tried the Jugdral games but their story-telling quality would also suffice based on what I've seen and heard.

I think in the end IS has to make a choice. Either give players as many options as possible and have a weaker story OR limit the players on what they can do but have the story, world building and characters be better for it. I'm worried they'll chose the former. From what I've seen in gaming in general, it's very difficult to craft a good story when you also give the players an insane amount of options.

Edited November 8, 2016 by Dinar87

[Naturesshadow]

In terms of having things like the narrative back and the base conversations, absolutely yes. Those little things made PoR and RD stand out for me and fleshed out the characters more. Also being able to build supports from just having 2 characters in a certain amount of chapters rather than sticking near each other I found to be much better for support point building and allowed for support convos focused around specific events of the plot.

A narrator could have helped greatly for Awakening and Fates story and helped build some context for the land we are in. As for kids, unless they can do an effective time skip to justify their existence they should not return. If your gonna have kid characters, actually make them work or just have them already there like Ross in Sacred Stones.

Edited November 8, 2016 by Naturesshadow

[Azure Sen]

I’d want IntSys to either go back to basics a la FE6 or go in a new direction entirely rather than have another game like the Tellius duology or Fates or FE8. I find Tellius’s writing to be pretty weak overall aside from the worldbuiding and few (Jill’s in PoR, Elincia’s in both, and Micaiah’s in Part 3) stand out character arcs. Fates, I’ve shared my feelings on my problems with it quite a lot, and so I won’t repeat that here, and while I like FE8 I think a more simple story would help IntSys better establish a new direction in their writing post-Fates.

And as for what "tellius-styled" means? It means proper character development (cough Jill cough Elincia COUGH) and an actually interesting story that deals with mature themes rather than "oh noez an evil dragon! Let's go kill it!".

In the FE series as a whole, neither of those things are exclusive to the Tellius games.

Edited November 10, 2016 by AzureSen

[Thane]

In the FE series as a whole, neither of those things are exclusive to the Tellius games.

I'm pretty sure this thread boils down to the question "do you want a better story and characters like in my favorite games?".

[Jedi]

Simple is best in FE, such as 3, 6, 9 and 11.

[Dinar87]

I'm pretty sure this thread boils down to the question "do you want a better story and characters like in my favorite games?".

Yeah pretty much. When I say "better characters and story" I'm of course talking about my opinion rather than stating objective facts. I don't have a problem with anyone who likes fates more than the tellius series or who think that they're better than my favorite games. The reason I keep making posts like this is because I DO like them unironically and I also like asking you guys questions about them and how you all feel about them. Basically I want to assess how many people actually want something like what I want.

As for how this relates to fates? Well I'm comparing it to something else aren't I?

In the FE series as a whole, neither of those things are exclusive to the Tellius games.

So you're telling me fates does have character development on the scale of Jill or Elincia? I'd very much like to see that as I've been worrying that fates doesn't have much character development based on what I've seen. Also, as far as I know awakening, correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't have as much character development as those games. I'd love to be proven wrong but with awakening, I've spent over 300 hours playing it and I can safely say that I saw nothing as moving or interesting for me as my favorite games. I'm sorry if this annoys anyone but this is just how I feel. I found that the good supports like Maribelle x Gaius were more about back story than character development. I also found a lot of supports were focused more on trying to be funny than interesting which saddened me.

Edited November 10, 2016 by Dinar87

[Brand_Of_The_Exalt]

It's weird that a lot of people restrict themselves to one thing or another, and that's with an "exclusive or" such as "I want FE to back to FEX". I just think both stories have their assets and flaws, and I'd prefer to see a story between those games.

Fates has a lazy world building, bad character development (especially Birthright and Hoshidans in general), an average story-telling, but its story had some potential, kinda wasted, that's true. On the other hand, I loved some aspects of the story. It's more focusing on emotions that before. Character death scenes were really good IMO, and more "adult". By adult I mean the way (and the context of their deaths) they die which is more raw and brutal than in the past (except Genealogy of The Holy War, you know which moment I'm talking about, but the graphics were... not as "realistic" as they are now so it had a weaker impact on me). I also loved the tone of the story, especially in Conquest. It's a bit dark and mystical (especially near Endgame), and I like the idea of Conquest's Corrin, forced to to take the pain on herself (because I prefer Female Corrin in Conquest, MLP really got the right tone for her) and suffer again and again through the story under King Garon's orders for a noble purpose. Of course it has its flaws in execution, but the concept was great IMO.

For Tellius, I can only speak for Radiant Dawn because PoR is one of the last FE games I haven't play yet (I need to try it, but it's a bit expensive tbh). The world building was great, the story and story-telling too, especially in Part 2 and 3, but I didn't really like Part 1 and Part 4. I loved the way they gradually created a World War, this darker portrait of politicians pulling the strings behind the scenes. There were awesome moments (my favorite being Crimea's Heart), and if the character development was better than Fates for the main characters, most secondary characters really lacked of visibility and personality, and some of them didn't get a single line in the game as I explained in another of your topics. But the "funny" characters and gimmick are not all new, Iliyana already had something similar with her hunger. RD doesn't lack of emotions by any means, but they were more provoked by the suspens of the story.

So I'd like something between both, with a better world building and character development for main characters while keeping secondary characters more "developed", and also more emotions while having a better story telling.

Edited November 10, 2016 by Brand_Of_The_Exalt