Best Pokemon Generation

[Quintessence]

@Red Fox, I think the debate limits itself to value which contribution (per Gen) has more weight and improved the game in general because as Darros said, the first Gens suffered from technical restrictions, and it is unfair to judge the first Gens due to these.

@Banryu Not going to defend them with this, but previous Gens gave the player more freedom despite still being straight forward.

[BANRYU]

@Banryu Not going to defend them with this, but previous Gens gave the player more freedom despite still being straight forward.

I mean... I kinda disagree? They all had to have SOME way of funneling the player in the direction they wanted you to go, whether it be HM necessity, path-blocking NPCs, etc. Some definitely had more freedom (pretty sure GSC had a lot of flexibility with this haha), and IMO Gen 1 was actually really good at making the 'funneling' (or whatever the better term would be) feel quite natural outside of the aforementioned Pewter City example, but I personally didn't really mind the more forceful funneling in this game since at least the plot events are fairly interesting haha.

To each their own, naturally, but all the games had their way of forcing you forward in one way or another.

[Darros]

I mean honestly, it's really nothing new for these games. Do the people complaining about this remember the guy in Pewter City who would drag your ass to the gym any time you tried to head out to Mount Moon? The dude blocking the first Gym in gen 5 who straight up says 'GO CHECK OUT THE DREAMYARD FIRST'? Any of the other similar things already happening in pretty much every other game?

Its nothing new for this series lol. At least in this game, interesting stuff usually happens at the places you're forced to go to.

Completely remember but usually that only lasted for the first gym and, although there was some linearity, not everything had to be done in a very specific order. Like how you can skip Brawly entirely in RSE and how in Gen II you can play around with the gym order where the only place you really can't go to early is Blackthorn to fight Claire.

The complaint about this I see frequently made about Gen VII is not that it exists but rather that it's excessive.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Alolan Darros

[Florete]

In gen 1 you can do gyms 4-7 in almost any order. You only had to beat Koga before Blain because you need the Soul Badge to use Surf. In gen 3 you can skip Brawly and Winona basically until you feel like fighting them.

The games have gotten more linear as they've progressed. I think gen IV was the first time where there was a totally forced order, and nothing has really strayed from that since.

[secondworld]

If I was asked this question at any point in the past my answer would be the same as it is now: the current one.

I'd say each generation is better than the last with the possible exception of maaaayyyyyyybe 6.

[BANRYU]

In gen 1 you can do gyms 4-7 in almost any order. You only had to beat Koga before Blain because you need the Soul Badge to use Surf. In gen 3 you can skip Brawly and Winona basically until you feel like fighting them.

The games have gotten more linear as they've progressed. I think gen IV was the first time where there was a totally forced order, and nothing has really strayed from that since.

Can you really do those gen 1 gyms in any order, though? I get that Sabrina and Surge can be safely skipped, but by your own admission Koga is required to progress, and getting to Koga requires the Pokeflute, which requires access to both Celadon and then Saffron-- even if the doing the gyms themselves isn't a necessity, you're still being funneled to their locations around by the necessity of items and other progression mechanics. I actually like how gen 1 does it, though, it manages to do it in a way that allows you to explore your options before figuring out the only way to proceed. It's almost like a geographical puzzle of sorts, and I think that's cool.

In the case of Brawly/Winona that's true enough, though I guess it's a matter of convenience (why wouldn't you want to be able to Fly esp in an overworld as convoluted as Hoenn lol).

Also, was Gen 5 not also extremely linear? I can't comment on BW2 as I didn't play them, but I seem to recall Unova also having a pretty fixed, concrete order without much flexibility.

Completely remember but usually that only lasted for the first gym and, although there was some linearity, not everything had to be done in a very specific order. Like how you can skip Brawly entirely in RSE and how in Gen II you can play around with the gym order where the only place you really can't go to early is Blackthorn to fight Claire.

The complaint about this I see frequently made about Gen VII is not that it exists but rather that it's excessive.

That's... fair, actually, haha. I'd be lying if I tried to claim that there weren't at least several moments where I tried to explore before being slapped over the head by the game and told 'not there yet, idiot, go to your waypoint'.

I guess that's a fair criticism, then, point taken.

[Florete]

Can you really do those gen 1 gyms in any order, though? I get that Sabrina and Surge can be safely skipped, but by your own admission Koga is required to progress, and getting to Koga requires the Pokeflute, which requires access to both Celadon and then Saffron-- even if the doing the gyms themselves isn't a necessity, you're still being funneled to their locations around by the necessity of items and other progression mechanics. I actually like how gen 1 does it, though, it manages to do it in a way that allows you to explore your options before figuring out the only way to proceed. It's almost like a geographical puzzle of sorts, and I think that's cool.

The latter part here is the point. Yeah, there's a sort of funneling, but it's definitely not linear. The story progression naturally has a certain order, but the stuff that isn't story-centric mostly isn't forced on you. While it's not my favorite gen, this is something I really love about gen 1 that none of the others have captured.

[BANRYU]

Regarding Gen 5, my wife is reminding me that the plot tries to tell you that 'you can't save the world unless you go get that last gym badge first'. She was like, don't patronize me, I'll get it because it's on the WAY, but saving the world is kinda more important than the stupid gym battle challenge innit

I don't recall too many details personally (I found gen 5 really unmemorable, though I'm replaying it between playing through SuMo), but I do remember the gym challenge being particularly forced upon you in BW and again in what little I played of BW2.

The latter part here is the point. Yeah, there's a sort of funneling, but it's definitely not linear. The story progression naturally has a certain order, but the stuff that isn't story-centric mostly isn't forced on you. While it's not my favorite gen, this is something I really love about gen 1 that none of the others have captured.

I would argue that it is still linear (mandatory city order of Vermilion -> Lavender -> Celadon -> Saffron -> Fuschia IIRC), just that the gym battles are optional. Either way, I definitely like the way that they send you around (denying easy access to Saffron and Fuschia makes them benchmark goals of a sort which are really satisfying to finally reach), so I sort of agree in that regard hahaha. It's not linear in a literal sense, but it does encourage exploring your options and figuring out the right way to go on your own, which I definitely like.

Even if it's still funneling of a sort, it's infinitely better than 'hey go fight the gyms kid' 'why' 'bcuz it's pokemon that's waht you do. don't ask questions just go do it' that we get in later gens.

Edited December 5, 2016 by BANRYU

[Florete]

I would argue that it is still linear (mandatory city order of Vermilion -> Lavender -> Celadon -> Saffron -> Fuschia IIRC), just that the gym battles are optional. Either way, I definitely like the way that they send you around (denying easy access to Saffron and Fuschia makes them benchmark goals of a sort which are really satisfying to finally reach), so I sort of agree in that regard hahaha. It's not linear in a literal sense, but it does encourage exploring your options and figuring out the right way to go on your own, which I definitely like.

Even if it's still funneling of a sort, it's infinitely better than 'hey go fight the gyms kid' 'why' 'bcuz it's pokemon that's waht you do. don't ask questions just go do it' that we get in later gens.

I think we agree, we just see it in different ways. Regardless, it's a style I'd like to see again.

[Magical Glace]

While I love BWB2W2, Gen V is without a doubt one of the most linear Gens in the series for me.

I don't really consider it a bad thing, though some of the roadblocks really had no reason for being there, even the game itself admits it:

These guys pretty much exist to block off a battle facility til post game. Black City/White Forest has no plot significance at all and there's no good reason for the player to not be allowed in on Route 14's side.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Glaceon Mage

[Sylphid]

I honestly don't know which generation I consider the best, or which is my favorite. They all have brought things that made the games better, but also removed some. Right now I feel like it's gen VII, but I'm not sure how much of that is due to hype.

This is what I remember the generations for:

- Gen I set things in motion but apart from that... It's kind of bad really (not horrible though).

- Gen II build on from I and made the battles more balanced.

- Gen III introduced my favorite region and I adore contests (this incarnation of them was the best one too) and battle Frontier, but as a whole it didn't change much in gameplay.

- Gen IV introduced the physical/special split which was huge.

- Gen V had the best story (holding my judgement on VII until I finish Sun)

- Gen VI introduced player customization beyond simple "what is your gender/name?", easier EV training (the only time I've bothered) and mega evolution. Also the interface for interacting with other players was really good, as rezzy points out in OP.

- Gen VII has best early game and graphics for me, and removal of HM is excellent.

(there are probably others bu I have bad memory)

Don't really know how to order those, but III, IV and V are the top half I suppose (won't be ranking VII for a while but it feels like it will be up there with the best).

Incidentally, I want more contests. Or pokeathlon in a game that isn't remake since I skipped HGSS (and ORAS).

I mean honestly, it's really nothing new for these games. Do the people complaining about this remember the guy in Pewter City who would drag your ass to the gym any time you tried to head out to Mount Moon? The dude blocking the first Gym in gen 5 who straight up says 'GO CHECK OUT THE DREAMYARD FIRST'? Any of the other similar things already happening in pretty much every other game?

Its nothing new for this series lol. At least in this game, interesting stuff usually happens at the places you're forced to go to.

I just want to add to this that "old guy sleeping" and "thirsty guard" are some of the silliest roadblocks in the series (to me), alongside the dancing guys pointed out by Glaceon Mage above.

Tauros at least can be legit scary if you think about it (also I consider wall of Psyducks scary but I'm probably alone on that one).

That said, I do think Sun might be a bit too linear with its story / map opening. I'm not bothered by it myself, but definitely see why someone else could be.

On clearing gyms in any order: I would like it if we got a set of gyms you really could clear in any order, and their difficulty changes based on how many badges you have when yo do the challenge. In story progression / map design it would be nice if the player wasn't guided to any one gym in particular. This could put some unfortunate limitations on story though.

For the record, I would keep 1-2 gyms that were always the first ones, to ease the player into the game.

[BANRYU]

On clearing gyms in any order: I would like it if we got a set of gyms you really could clear in any order, and their difficulty changes based on how many badges you have when yo do the challenge. In story progression / map design it would be nice if the player wasn't guided to any one gym in particular. This could put some unfortunate limitations on story though.

For the record, I would keep 1-2 gyms that were always the first ones, to ease the player into the game.

Actually that's a really neat idea, like a Megaman-style gym setup where each respective gym scales based on how many you've beaten, right? That would be pretty neat IMO if done well. I don't have a lot of expectation that GF would implement something like this (so resistant to change are they that they'll take steps backward if they sense they've made too much progress during the last gen lol), but it could be pretty neat.

[Magical Glace]

- Gen III introduced my favorite region and I adore contests (this incarnation of them was the best one too) and battle Frontier, but as a whole it didn't change much in gameplay.

Gen III pretty much overhauled how stats work.

How is that "not changing much"?

[Leona]

Plus, abilities and natures

[Sylphid]

Actually that's a really neat idea, like a Megaman-style gym setup where each respective gym scales based on how many you've beaten, right? That would be pretty neat IMO if done well. I don't have a lot of expectation that GF would implement something like this (so resistant to change are they that they'll take steps backward if they sense they've made too much progress during the last gen lol), but it could be pretty neat.

Yeah, I doubt it will happen but it would be cool. Kind of like how I would love a game that has Gen III style contests instead of gyms/trials but have absolutely no expectations of that happening lol

Gen III pretty much overhauled how stats work.

How is that "not changing much"?

I did say there is probably something I forgot. Like that.

[Tamanoir]

While I love BWB2W2, Gen V is without a doubt one of the most linear Gens in the series for me.

I don't really consider it a bad thing, though some of the roadblocks really had no reason for being there, even the game itself admits it:

These guys pretty much exist to block off a battle facility til post game. Black City/White Forest has no plot significance at all and there's no good reason for the player to not be allowed in on Route 14's side.

But you know, it actually makes perfect sense. Gen 1 don't really have any story. The story and the charatcers became moe and more important with each generation (whether it's a good or bad story, and good/bad characters is another debate. coughXYcough). So they need to makes the game more linear.

SM is actually an interresting mix. The next step is clearly indicated, but the way to access it isn't. Just look at the roads. You can face the trainer, or go behind it in tall grass.

Tee's all the rewards for catching Pokémon. (You can have 10 Ultra Ball in the 2nd town just by playing normally, and you get load of cash for capturing rare Pokémon.)

ANd i may be alone in this, but the ostentatious sign of where to go next is also an invitation of exploring. Because, like any good JRPG player, I try to explore everything else before advancing through the game.

[BANRYU]

the charatcers became moe and more important with each generation

Okay I know this was a typo but I can't help but think of Lillie

'the characters became moe and more important'

The only character I can think of who's more moe than Lillie is Shauna and... well... no one really likes her lol.

ANd i may be alone in this, but the ostentatious sign of where to go next is also an invitation of exploring. Because, like any good JRPG player, I try to explore everything else before advancing through the game.

That's true to a certain extent in this game; the rest of the time, though, the game is actually punishing you for trying to explore new places, saying 'no not here yet dummy, go do the trial you're procrastinating on first'. I do like the fact that the waypoint tells you when you may need to be prepared for something, so that's kind of a nice touch at least.