FE10 Tierlist 2017

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I have done a run with the worst rated units of this tierlist, and I have to say I noticed a huge difference in terms of usefulness of certain units.

• Astrid and Fiona turned out fantastic just by powerleveling them in 2-2 + 3-9 / part 3. I didn't even have to give them any status items. Parablossom on Astrid work perfectly. Maxed everything in level 15 already.
• Kyze is really good, if you just give him a speedwing. Even in HM he can double everyone with his 26 base speed. He just needs S strike quickly and maybe an energy drop to oneround stuff. In 4-P he fulfilled exact the same role Skrimir normally does: Wrecked most of the paladins.
• Meg could technically solo part 3 because laguz do 5-7 less damage in NM.
• Tormod is not too painful to train, if you forge him a fire tome. Even in HM I could train him several times without wasting too much effort. Just had to weak the enemies enough to give him the kills. He just needs a couple of speed points not to get doubled by every physical opponent. He can easily get 20 levels even without paragon.
• Lyre is so weak despite she got a perfect level up. She can only serve as a dodgetank, but only if her biorhythm is good. She only oneround physical enemies with double adept. That means how weak she is. Even magic users can't be onerounded.
• Vika is totally useless if she couldn't get a rank upgrade in part 3. She does like 6-8 to damage and is always in danger to get oneshotted by a crit. Definitely the worst unit of my picked team. Her only useful chapters are all the chapters in part 1.

Well, this was only in NM, so I won't change any of my votes (except maybe Kyze's). Will try it in HM again now.

[Shadow Mir]

22 hours ago, Sweet_Basil said:

Here's a mock-up tier list based on the heroes poll. I did it just for fun of course.

God Tier
Ike- 17,684
Micaiah- 13,491

Top Tier
Mia- 8,946
Nephenee- 5,557
Black Knight- 4,878
Soren- 3,470
Sothe- 2,863
Haar- 2,678
Elincia- 2,502
Tibarn- 1,872

High Tier
Ilyana- 1,696
Ranulf- 1,578
Shinon- 1,553
Edward- 1,446
Jill- 1,437
Mist- 1,391
Sanaki- 1,308
Nailah- 1,206
Titania- 1,169
Volke- 1,131
Naesala- 1,128
Zihark- 975
Oliver- 902

Up-Mid Tier
Lucia- 861
Volug- 838
Lethe- 836
Leanne- 788
Vika- 681
Stefan- 675
Tormod- 668
Aran- 648

Mid Tier
Caineghis- 616
Pelleas- 608
Heather- 599
Boyd- 587
Marcia- 527
Meg- 516
Reyson- 462
Lyre- 460
Rolf- 434
Geoffrey- 422
Leonardo- 398
Sephiran- 367

Low-Mid Tier
Sigrun- 323
Astrid- 321
Oscar- 315
Laura- 312
Nolan- 297
Gatrie- 282
Muarim- 279
Rhys- 258
Mordecai- 250
Kurthnaga- 247
Kieran- 246
Skrimir- 244

Low Tier
Brom- 221
Fiona- 212
Janaff- 187
Rafiel- 149
Kyza- 142
Danved- 140
Tauroneo- 137
Tanith- 129
Calill- 129
Gareth- 122
Ulki- 118
Bastian- 110
Ena- 96

Bottom Tier
Nasir- 93
Giffca- 88
Makalov- 85
Renning- 85
Nealuchi- 47

 

So Ike and Micaiah are the only characters to break the memetic barrier...

[ping]

Technically, so does Mia.

[Vaximillian]

15 minutes ago, ping said:

Technically, so does Mia.

Merely 55 more votes!..

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Quote

So Ike and Micaiah are the only characters to break the memetic barrier...

Tbf they're the main characters of this game so it's not too surprising.

[Radiant head]

surprised mia topped for non-lords of all people 

[ping]

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/It's_Over_9000!

In most versions, Vegeta actually says "It's over 8000!"

;)

1 hour ago, Radiant head said:

surprised mia topped for non-lords of all people 

I'm mostly surprised about the difference between her and the rest. That's more than 50% more votes - I didn't realize Mia was that popular. I would've expected Jill and Haar to be higher on the list, too.

[-Cynthia-]

Kyza is improved with the Speedwing, but again with resource distribution it's hard to justify giving him one with units like Haar and Titania around. Almost every unit is pretty good if you're willing to give them whatever they want without considering the cost at all.

Edited February 10, 2017 by -Cynthia-

[Baldrick]

I propose Kyze > Oscar. Kyze can do damage with 0 resources, which is more than you can say for Oscar. You could give him a Lance, but that would mean weaker forged Hand Axes for Haar and Titania.

Laguz generally get more mileage out of resources, because of their transformed stats and getting a flat damage increase from high weapon ranks. A team with Haar and Speed!Kyze is overall stronger than a team with Speed!Haar and Kyze. The counter-argument that Kyze is a terrible unit and you shouldn't ever deploy him is perfectly rational, but where do you draw the line?

[Augestein]

1 hour ago, Baldrick said:

I propose Kyze > Oscar. Kyze can do damage with 0 resources, which is more than you can say for Oscar. You could give him a Lance, but that would mean weaker forged Hand Axes for Haar and Titania.

 

  Hide contents

Laguz generally get more mileage out of resources, because of their transformed stats and getting a flat damage increase from high weapon ranks. A team with Haar and Speed!Kyze is overall stronger than a team with Speed!Haar and Kyze. The counter-argument that Kyze is a terrible unit and you shouldn't ever deploy him is perfectly rational, but where do you draw the line?

 

Exactly where "communist emblem comes around." It's easy to justify giving Kyze a speedwing if you're planning on using him because he sucks significantly less with it. 

[Dark Holy Elf]

The cost of basic lances is negligible compared to the highly limited number of Speedwings the army has available.

Kyza's a good choice for a Speedwing if you plan to use him, sure, but a team that doesn't plan to use him will give the Speedwing to someone else and be better off for it. Thus if you're going to consider Kyza with a Speedwing, you should be comparing him to other units with a Speedwing or resource of comparable value, and most of them are still better than him then.

Speedwing Kyza (having used him) still hits a wall in endgame when 30 speed stops being good enough to double. I feel like if you're going to show a unit significant favouritism they should at least turn into a decent endgame candidate for your trouble...

[Augestein]

17 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

The cost of basic lances is negligible compared to the highly limited number of Speedwings the army has available.

Kyza's a good choice for a Speedwing if you plan to use him, sure, but a team that doesn't plan to use him will give the Speedwing to someone else and be better off for it. Thus if you're going to consider Kyza with a Speedwing, you should be comparing him to other units with a Speedwing or resource of comparable value, and most of them are still better than him then.

Speedwing Kyza (having used him) still hits a wall in endgame when 30 speed stops being good enough to double. I feel like if you're going to show a unit significant favouritism they should at least turn into a decent endgame candidate for your trouble...

Yeah, and that goes without saying. The fact of the matter is that we still have to consider a world where we decide to use them. Otherwise we can't even begin to talk about characters that stand no real chance of being deployed under a standard playthrough. 

[Snowy_One]

Personally I simply always assume all characters have equal and unrestricted access to all weapons so long as they can be acquired without penalty. After all, if, say, Oscar is sucking with a forged silver axe, what's stopping you from handing it off to Jill or whoever? The only exception to this is unique weapons but even then I only penalize people if they can't function without it.

Another potential flaw with 'Коммунистическая эмблема'. If you do your best to avoid spending resources... you end up with a ton of unspent resources. Using a speed wing on Gatrie may be a terrible idea but it beats leaving the wing to sit around and rot. Even selling the wing to buy Fiona a pimped out lance is a better option than not using it because it's 'unfair' and what-not. 

Edit: I feel the need to elaborate. No matter how good or bad a unit is we should ALWAYS be decking them out as best we can and it should NEVER count against them. If you have access to silver weapons and someone can wield them, BUY THEM A SILVER WEAPON! It only counts 'against' them if they 1) Struggle without the weapon and 2) said weapon can't be easily obtained. Likewise, with items, it's okay to hold on to an item if you have a 'better' use for it, but it would be better to waste the spirit dusts on a melee fighter to get them to BEXP abuse earlier than to just sit on them and go 'nope. Not gonna.' All items should be used and a unit should never be penalized for taking any amount of items, just any amount that would drastically negatively affect other units.

Edited February 15, 2017 by Snowy_One

[Junkhead]

Talking about Oscar, he's actually a lot more badass than people give him credit for. He's pretty much 3rd next to Haar & Tiamat.

[Radiant head]

earth affinity and horse is rad, but silver knight has meh caps

[Junkhead]

You do realise it's actually anywhere as bad as people once made it out to be, right? 31 AS stops doubling at 4-4. It still doubles throughout most of Part 4. People put too much weight at Endgame.

[Radiant head]

i meant to say his tier 2 caps

i actually like him in endgame, because triangle attacking bosses is fun as hell

Edited February 23, 2017 by Radiant head

[Junkhead]

24 AS only fails to double at 3-4 & 3-5, at which point you can already promote him at 3-8 for 26 AS (which doubles all of Part 3). When people say "caps", they pretty much just mean "Spd cap".

 

[Radiant head]

yeah, though that requires the master crown, doesn't it

[Junkhead]

yeah because haar is useless without it

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Looking at my votes and noticed a difference of 1.5 points between Oscar and Titania. I don't know what I was thinking right there.

Seriously T Oscar > NT Titania because he can double every generic except for swordmasters and can even oneround snipers with the steel great lance. I overrated Titania a bit (I mean she can't double anyone except for axe and maybe lance generals and thunder sages) and underrated Oscar. A difference of 0.5 pro Titania would be justified if I exclude HM boosts.

Quote

 but silver knight has meh caps

only the males

 

[Radiant head]

yeah, but lol @ using female silver knights

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I wouldn't discredit Astrid at any price.

Strength + speed boost make it a bit more bearable to use her.

Also in 3-11 you can seriously power level up her with silencer and parablossom, even in HM.

[Junkhead]

9 hours ago, Magillanica Lou Mayvin said:

Looking at my votes and noticed a difference of 1.5 points between Oscar and Titania. I don't know what I was thinking right there.

Seriously T Oscar > NT Titania because he can double every generic except for swordmasters and can even oneround snipers with the steel great lance. I overrated Titania a bit (I mean she can't double anyone except for axe and maybe lance generals and thunder sages) and underrated Oscar. A difference of 0.5 pro Titania would be justified if I exclude HM boosts.

So transfers are a thing, here? e_é (I mean, why not, but...) 

I can see what you mean. Also, he 1RKO's every non SM/General, which may as well translate to "1RKO's consistently/everything important)". Fun fact, enemies at 3-1 are like 1 AS slower than the ones at 3-P, meaning base Oscar doubles from there on (because sealing the magical 24 AS is 1 point away). Since he pretty much caps both Skill & Spd in a level or two (starts with Skill capped, actually), he can BEXP his Str up (and even his Def, with an Angelic Robe) aka his only one real issue. 

 

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

As for the original voting I excluded transfer boosts. Even without them, a 7 is still too low for him. Oscar without transfers can still oneround the exact same enemies as Titania can. Titania has a higher output damage but she can't kill more than base Oscar can (except for giving her Boyd's killer axe).

Indeed Oscar with strength + speed boost can oneround everyone except for swordmasters. He needs only one speed point to make use of bexp. so strength and defense can be fixed. If you give Titania the speed wing in 3-2, she'd be better than Oscar but only very slightly. Oscar still can oneround all the halberdiers, cavaliers and snipers while Titania migth oneround the dragon masters furthermore. Seriously the speed wing is better on Haar, if he has 21 speed at least to make him constantly double the enemies.

However in the longrun Titania is better than Oscar, simply because axes are a better weapon type and female gold knights have slightly better weapon types and caps than male silver knights, but worse speed cap than female silver knights. Only Astrid and Fiona can reach the magical 34 speed cap for the endgame.

 

At the end 0.5 points pro Titania seems to be fair.

(if I would rank with transfers, then I'd rank him even higher than her simply because of his onerounding potential in part 3's earlygame)

 

Also the enemies in 3-1 have pretty much the same level and speed as in 3-P. Never really saw that they became worse.

• snipers: 19
• swordmasters: 23
• halberdiers: 19-20
• warriors: 20
• lance generals: 17
• axe generals: 16
• sword generals: 18
• fire sages: 17-18
• thunder sages: 16

Edit: In 3-P the horseslayer general and the stl. great lance halberdier next to the boss are a bit higher leveled, but all the other enemies are the same as you fight in 3-1.

PS: Still haven't fixed my votes yet. Will think about it now.

Edited February 23, 2017 by Magillanica Lou Mayvin