FE10 Tierlist 2017

[ping]

They're units we recruit and use, so yes, they can.

+1

Tormod - Would have been decent if it wasn't for his terrible availability. Still, he's quite helpful in part 1, so I guess 4.5/10 is reasonable.

Muarim - Same, but better. :D No 1-2 range sucks a bit, but in part 1, he's pretty much an instant delete button and even when the LEA rejoins, he's actually quite alright when they're forced.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Okay then. I was curious because I know she had gotten some zeros, as I had predicted would be the case (but what can you expect when you're practically unusable outside of easy mode?).

You're strangely hung up with Meg getting really low scores. And she's completely "usable" on Hard Mode, let alone Normal (it helps that 1-4 is chokepoint central so you can level anyone you want there). There may not be much reason to use her, but that's a different statement from the one you made.

Tauroneo: 5/10. He's god in two part 1 maps, basically irrelevant in 3-12, and then decent in 3-13. He's usable in part 4 as filler but that's about it. I have little to say about him past that; he's a weird case.

Fiona: 1/10. So I used her on my first playthrough because after PoR I figured that an earth affinity cavalier would be an instant great unit. She did have windows where she was quite good but it's not worth the incredibly bad start, the worst of any unit in the game I think. I'm not sure if she's the worst unit in the game (because certain other bad units don't even have good potential), but she's in the conversation.

Tormod: 3.5/10. He's quite good for three maps! Doubles most things with 1-2 range damage, especially nice since there are ledges in two of his three maps and enemies in swamps to make said range useful. But he's still essentially a temp and for two of those maps he's a dramatically worse one than Nailah and Zelgius. Then when he returns he's complete junk.

Muarim: 3/10. I'm surprised how well-liked he is here. Like yeah he's fine in part 1 but the laguz gauge means he's less useful than the other delete buttons you have at that point, namely Nailah, BK, and Tormod, and stronger DB members like Sothe are also competitive with him. I'm never terribly tempted to deploy him for 1-E, for instance (unlike Tormod). He's not completely worthless in 4-4 (though not good either, 22 speed is bad and his attack isn't any different than say Titania's by then, which is to say good but not OHKO level) but he's terrible in endgame like all tigers so there's no reason to actually use him then beyond some minimal chipping.

[Shadow Mir]

You're strangely hung up with Meg getting really low scores. And she's completely "usable" on Hard Mode, let alone Normal (it helps that 1-4 is chokepoint central so you can level anyone you want there). There may not be much reason to use her, but that's a different statement from the one you made.

Sure, she might be usable in 1-4, but what about afterwards, where her tendency to take worse movement penalties than other units rears its ugly head? I've actually managed to make something out of Fiona, but not so much for Meg. Sure, Meg has more playtime, but so what? That's just more time she's stinking it up.

Edited December 20, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Dark Holy Elf]

Low move does not make someone unusable, and I say this as someone who certainly values movement.

[Shadow Mir]

Low move does not make someone unusable, and I say this as someone who certainly values movement.

Low movement alone doesn't make someone unusable, yes. But low move is far from the only thing Meg has going against her.

Edited December 20, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Samias]

Low movement alone doesn't make someone unusable, yes. But low move is far from the only thing Meg has going against her.

If you deploy Meg to the right maps then her movement is less of an issue than it was in PoR. She can make due in chapters like 4-5 or 4-E since mounts get penalties to movement and ledges give infantry shortcuts. It is just that every DB chapter makes armor knights and horse-mounts bad by design and Tauroneo only overcomes that by being completely unflappable by the enemy while Meg does not.

Edited December 20, 2016 by Samias

[Anacybele]

I gave both Tormod and Muarim 1/10. They're good for the very few chapters they're available in Part 1. Then they're completely useless because you don't get them back until part freaking 4. That's entirely stupid. Plus Muarim can no longer stay shifted like he could in PoR.

[Jave]

Jill: Amazing unit that is a great asset to the DB. Makes great use of Canto and the Brave Axe. 9/10

Zihark: Usable but fragile. Definitely not a bad unit to have around. 7/10

Tauroneo: Extremely useful in the two maps he's in Part 1 and usable enough until the end of the game when he rejoins in Part 3, sadly Armored Knights aren't that useful in Endgame. 6.5/10

Fiona: What was IS thinking with this character I'll never know. It's like they took every quality of a joke character in every video game genre and made an FE unit out of it. Low bases, movement penalties, joins late for her level, what the hell can you salvage out of this unit? Oh yeah, you can get her skills and sell them or give them to someone else. That's as much utility as she gets. 1.5/10

Tormod: Usable in Part 1, but her availability in Part 4 completely kills him. I'm pretty sure they wrote him out of Part 3 because the writers were conflicted on which side would he take during the DB Vs GM maps, but that doesn't excuse it. 4/10

Muarim: Same problem as Tormod, but the good thing is that he can actually contribute in the map he rejoins in Part 4. 5.5/10

[ping]

I'm sure someone is incredibly proud of their sense of humor because they gave both Tormod and Muarim a 10/10 without any reasoning in the thread. Too funny! And so innovative!

Maybe it's better not to make the poll anonymous? Or just ignore votes that are completely outside of the bulk of the others and are not explained in the thread?

Muarim: 3/10. I'm surprised how well-liked he is here. Like yeah he's fine in part 1 but the laguz gauge means he's less useful than the other delete buttons you have at that point, namely Nailah, BK, and Tormod, and stronger DB members like Sothe are also competitive with him. I'm never terribly tempted to deploy him for 1-E, for instance (unlike Tormod). He's not completely worthless in 4-4 (though not good either, 22 speed is bad and his attack isn't any different than say Titania's by then, which is to say good but not OHKO level) but he's terrible in endgame like all tigers so there's no reason to actually use him then beyond some minimal chipping.

Tiger gauge isn't that terrible, though. I might remember things incorrectly, but I think it is usually possible to let Muarim transform on turn 2 by giving him some weed and letting someone attack him and maintaining non-cat transformation is a bit annoying, but very possible. I still find him a bit more helpful than Tormod (and less of a liability in 4-4), but Nailah and BK are indeed a great deal stronger than Muarim.

[Radiant head]

iirc he does ok untransformed for a bit in part 1

[Florete]

I'm sure someone is incredibly proud of their sense of humor because they gave both Tormod and Muarim a 10/10 without any reasoning in the thread. Too funny! And so innovative!

Maybe it's better not to make the poll anonymous? Or just ignore votes that are completely outside of the bulk of the others and are not explained in the thread?

I noticed that, too, and yeah, I feel like someone is just trolling.

There really is no reason for the poll to be anonymous. And I would say not to completely ignore votes that wildly deviate from the norm, but to require some sort of explanation for it.

[Locke087]

Tormod: oh IS why did you do this to him, why he's awesome, this is one of the games many mistakes... now do to his abysmal availability Tormod is a 4/10 even though he should be higher oh well I guess he is useful while he lasts...

Muaruim: shares Tormod's availability problems but is quite a bit less worse for wear and is actually fairly helpful in 4-4. 5.5/10

Edited December 21, 2016 by Locke087

[Dark Holy Elf]

Tiger gauge isn't that terrible, though. I might remember things incorrectly, but I think it is usually possible to let Muarim transform on turn 2 by giving him some weed and letting someone attack him and maintaining non-cat transformation is a bit annoying, but very possible. I still find him a bit more helpful than Tormod (and less of a liability in 4-4), but Nailah and BK are indeed a great deal stronger than Muarim.

I don't have enemy stats in front of me but my memory is that Tormod can one-round the vast majority of enemies (as can Muarim to be clear). He isn't immortal like transformed Muarim, but he can generally take a couple hits; his durability is comparable to that of Sothe or Zihark, which is good enough. Finally he has 1-2 range which is quite useful on the maps they share because of all the ledges. Tiger gauge isn't the end of the world, but it is a negative that other top units (including Tormod) don't have and it's enough to keep him out of the party in 1-E for me. But if you want to argue Muarim is slightly better that's fine. I don't really agree, but I can certainly accept it.

What I don't accept is that somehow Muarim deserves 2 or 3 points higher score than Tormod because of 4-4, where he isn't very useful (46 atk/22 spd is underwhelming, he has a gauge to watch, 1 range only), and I feel like I'm seeing a lot of that in the comments. One map where he is mediocre instead of trash shouldn't make a large difference to his score.

[-Cynthia-]

I don't have enemy stats in front of me but my memory is that Tormod can one-round the vast majority of enemies (as can Muarim to be clear). He isn't immortal like transformed Muarim, but he can generally take a couple hits; his durability is comparable to that of Sothe or Zihark, which is good enough. Finally he has 1-2 range which is quite useful on the maps they share because of all the ledges. Tiger gauge isn't the end of the world, but it is a negative that other top units (including Tormod) don't have and it's enough to keep him out of the party in 1-E for me. But if you want to argue Muarim is slightly better that's fine. I don't really agree, but I can certainly accept it.

What I don't accept is that somehow Muarim deserves 2 or 3 points higher score than Tormod because of 4-4, where he isn't very useful (46 atk/22 spd is underwhelming, he has a gauge to watch, 1 range only), and I feel like I'm seeing a lot of that in the comments. One map where he is mediocre instead of trash shouldn't make a large difference to his score.

It does seem like people are putting a lot of weight on Muarim's mediocre (and Tormod's bad) 4-4 rather than focusing on Part 1 which is where both of the units make almost all their contributions.

Edited December 21, 2016 by -Cynthia-

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Vika
Growthrates (%):
HP: 60
Strength: 25
Magic: 50
Skill: 60
Speed: 60
Luck: 65
Defense: 15
Resistance: 65
Affinity: wind
Skill: shriek

Vika belongs to Tormod’s party so she has the exact same problem as Tormod and Muarim. However she’s almost unusable when she comes back in 4-4. Muarim has the stats to withstand the opponents and Tormod can attack from range at least while Vika’s attackrange is locked in combat. She can do like ten damage against snipers for free. That’s all she can do.
The most bizzare thing: She has really good growths for a Laguz, but good growths in the wrong stats. Two of the most important stats, strength and defense, are her worst growthrates.
I never ever used her but I think in easy mode she can do her job and turn into something.
3 / 10


Rafiel
Growthrates (%)
HP: 60
Strength: 0
Magic: 40
Skill: 10
Speed: 20
Luck: 60
Defense: 10
Resistance: 50
Skill: blessing
Affinity: heaven

Rafiel is the best of the Serenes not because of his stats and growthrates (Reyson beats him), but because he can bless four units at any time. This is godly for E-1 and the endgame. With his appearance it’s possible to beat endgame maps in the very first turn (even Ashera). Sure he’s a slow papercut who will be onerounded by pretty much everyone, but if you keep him safe he’ll make your life much easier. Also celerity on him in E-1 is a must-have to have a much easier time with this chapter.
9 / 10

Added your votes.
This made Zihark fell behind Sothe.

I'm sure someone is incredibly proud of their sense of humor because they gave both Tormod and Muarim a 10/10 without any reasoning in the thread. Too funny! And so innovative!
Maybe it's better not to make the poll anonymous? Or just ignore votes that are completely outside of the bulk of the others and are not explained in the thread?

I noticed that, too, and yeah, I feel like someone is just trolling.

There really is no reason for the poll to be anonymous. And I would say not to completely ignore votes that wildly deviate from the norm, but to require some sort of explanation for it.

I noticed it too in previous polls already.
However in these cases I thought it'd be only an outlier.
But as for Tormod and Muarim I ignored the tens because they seem to be unrealistic regarding their average stat.

Also how can I make a poll public?

Edit: Found it out (too late). Will do it next time.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Eleanor Hume

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Vika

Worst bird Laguz is worst bird Laguz. Terrible availability and, unlike Muarim, she's not a good unit. She can maybe help get some hits and stuff in when you first get her, but when you reacquire her it's just simply better to use Muarim.

3/10

Rafiel

Tied with Reyson as the best "give your units an extra turns" guy. The only reason I don't put him higher is because of his more limited movement. But he's great!

8.5/10

[Florete]

Vika - Poor crow. Unlike Tormod and Muarim, she's not even very good in part 1, she's just kind of alright. And then she's practically unusable on return because even if you inject her with BEXP she needs weapon level increases to properly function. 2.5/10

Rafiel - There's not much to say about Rafiel. It's tough to quantify the value of the herons, so I'm just going to drop a score and not worry about explanation. 8/10

[Shadow Mir]

1/10 for Vika. She's not all that great in part 1, and worse yet, she's practically unusable in part 4 (her 30 speed might be able to double some enemies there, but her 25 atk isn't turning heads at this point, not to mention doing jack to non-mages). Not to mention laguz in general aren't as good in this game as they were in Path of Radiance.

5/10 for Rafiel. He can refresh four units at once, but that only matters if he can get into position to do so, which, unfortunately, he tends not to be able to because he only has 5 move, and the maps he's in don't help his situation (1-8 has him start with Nailah and Volug, 1-E gets cramped at times, and 4-1 is Fog of War).

Edited December 21, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Samias]

Vika does a couple useful things in part 1 due to her flight and can one round a fair share of enemies with a decent, but not great, gauge. Not as good as Muarim's anyway. It's nice to have her around in the swamp since she's one of the few people who can intercept the dracoknights in a timely manner. However she is doomed to be anemic and ineffective in part 4. If she didn't rank up in Strike she is basically just a hunk of flesh who can't even chip well. Tormod is a pain but trainable. Muarim kinda pulls his weight, if a bit ineffectively. Vika? Vika does nothing. Raven beaks are already the weakest of laguz strikes and her speed is overkill while her strength and durability languishes. So basically enjoy your three half decent chapters with Vika in tow where she's pretty good (but not even great like Tormod and Muarim), and then she returns to warm the bench if she can even make it there.

Rafiel's movement works against him in most part 1 chapters, though he can snag Celerity from Tormod, especially in 1-E where you could really use that extra turn to push forward and race the thieves to the chests. In most situations I like Reyson's flexibility with Canto and his naturally high transformed movement more than Rafiel's permanent foot movement, but for endgame Rafiel is the obvious choice who allows you to 1-turn most of the 4-E chapters. Refreshing 4 units at once in what is guaranteed to be tight formations is such a huge tactical boon and seriously multiplies your firepower per turn.

[Junkhead]

Tauros

He's God for two chapters, then stops existing. Later in 3-12, he's okay-ish, but has some potential to be your Ike Slayer.

6.

Fiona

Unlike Meg, she only has to chapters to work with, and they kind of hate her. She has a crapton of potential...in paper. Again, two chapters really don't cut it, unless you're super-turtling it. 2 out of her 3 Part 3 maps also hate her.

1.

TOPPAKU

He doesn't exist for most of game, but when he does, he's candidate as one of the best mages in the game. It's almost sad.

But really, now, he's pretty good. 1RKO's Brigands (toughest enemies around) with reliable 1-2 range, has surprisingly solid durability and keeps it up at 1-E.

5.

Muarim

Nailah with a gauge, pretty much- and that's the problem. Otherwise, yeah.

Now, unlike Tormod and Vika, he can actually be usable in 4-4+. If you give him Resolve and Paragon, he actually levels like crazy to the points he's murdering stuff.

5.

Vika

She's actually far better utility-wise than people give her credit for. She holds monopoly on being the single best at saving people at the swamp as well as shoving/rescuing characters over it. In 1-E, she helps a ton by being Rafiel's personal ferry, as well as being able to re-position for better formations.

5.

Rafiel

I really like how he can refresh four people at a time, but his low mobility can occasionally get in the way. I'm also not one to heavily idolise refreshing units, even though they're pretty good.

8.5

Edited December 21, 2016 by Soul~!

[eclipse]

Tormod - I really like him as a character. Too bad IS didn't feel the same way. He's great for the small time in Part 1 where he's available, and then he disappears, before coming back way underleveled. He can murder doors or something. 3.5/10, and that's with positive bias.

Muarim - If I copy-pasted the above, it would apply to Muarim as well. But replace "doors" with "a couple of part 4 enemies". 4/10

Vika - She'd be great if she didn't disappear. Or if she had some sort of character to latch on to. She's of some use in part 1, then part 4 emphasizes her frailty. 1.5/10

Rafiel - Landlocked heron can still transform and sing for people. Singing utility is great. Being unable to fly, not so much, but the lack of flight doesn't stop him from doing his job. 9/10

[ping]

Vika - It's tragic, really. Her growths are absurdly high (technically 7.35 points per level, 6.35 if you don't count magic) and even her strength growth is actually quite alright at 50% (or rather 25% to get +2). And thanks to her overkill magic, skill and speed, she can BEXP her lower stats up relatively early (around her mid-20ies). But even if you would manage to get her the XP despite her awful availability, her strike rank will still kill her. Volug reaches S rank relatively quick, Muarim is just stronk enough to deal okay damage with his A rank even in 4-4, but Vika...

Well, at least she's somewhat useful in the first part. I agree with Soul that she's quite good in the swamp chapter because Jill chickens out, but I could never really make use of her in 1-E. All in all, it's not really enough for me to give her more than 2.5/10.

Raphiel - I don't think that I ever did not slap Celerity on him as soon as I could. I really like dancers in pretty much every FE game that I've played and one that refreshes four units all the time is just amazing. 9/10

Edited December 21, 2016 by ping

[Jave]

Vika: She is one of those characters I really wish I could use because I absolutely adore her design, but her terrible availability and the fact Laguz barely gain any EXP in this game leaves you with no way of ever training Vika proper. A big waste if I ever saw one. 3/10.

Rafiel: Refreshes four units at a time without needing to transform, which makes him super useful as soon as he joins. Give him Celerity and he's almost OP. Loses one point only for the lack of Canto. 9/10.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Vika: 3/10. Her flaws have been stated, and yeah she is bad outside Part 1... though I have used her before for giggles, she does become damn near unhittable in Endgame if you massively baby her in 4-4 at least? No, I'm not hyping this. What I am inclined to hype is that she's possibly the MVP of the swamp map if your goal is to save all the prisoners, which keeps me from giving her a truly low score. She can lure that first wyvern to where Tormod can ORKO him, then transform and beat up the brigands who might otherwise reach the east prisoners. Not worth using in 1-E, though, so 1-8 is basically 90% of her worth.

Rafiel: 7/10. People more obsessed with turncounts than me like him more than Reyson in Endgame, but I personally find Reyson far more useful there: you toss him a Laguz Gem/Stone and in exchange for no refresh on turn 1 you get someone who has +3 (!!!) move and Canto, plus can actually take the odd hit (from siege tomes, MT attacks, etc.). I'll take that trade any day. Anyway Rafiel is a heron and thus great, but there's only so high I want to score him when I don't want to bring him to Endgame and he only has 4 maps before then; him being above Nailah would certainly rub me the wrong way for instance.

Edited December 21, 2016 by Dark Holy Elf

[Shadow Mir]

Rafiel: 7/10. People more obsessed with turncounts than me like him more than Reyson in Endgame, but I personally find Reyson far more useful there: you toss him a Laguz Gem/Stone and in exchange for no refresh on turn 1 you get someone who has +3 (!!!) move and Canto, plus can actually take the odd hit (from siege tomes, MT attacks, etc.). I'll take that trade any day. Anyway Rafiel is a heron and thus great, but there's only so high I want to score him when I don't want to bring him to Endgame and he only has 4 maps before then; him being above Nailah would certainly rub me the wrong way for instance.

I agree - and it doesn't help Rafiel's case when most of his pre-endgame maps make it hard to get the most out of him.