PKL's Conquest Tier List v1.1

[Refa]

You're literally gimping yourself by not using Camilla. The game being beatable without her is a testament to the game's design, not a flaw on her part.

[Jedi]

You're literally gimping yourself by not using Camilla. The game being beatable without her is a testament to the game's design, not a flaw on her part.

Yeah basically saying what I wanted to bluntly state haha.

[Brand_Of_The_Exalt]

There is literally no one who can replicate the amount of work Camilla puts in, the fact that we've had to not allow her to be used until chapter 16 in drafts, should be a clear enough sign of just how much of a game changer she literally is by herself. That's even without giving her potential reliable boss kills, and she's still a good pick despite that, and yeah CQ Hard can be done without her, but if you're going for efficiency, you'll be using her. I know PKL, and he bases his tiers off efficiency, LTC and the like. She pretty much annihilates everything for quite a bit of time and then she just keeps steamrolling the game. That and after the first few chapters she starts gaining exp like crazy anyways, due to how its scaled

It's like Marcus in FE7, sure people can possibly catch up to him over time, but he's done so much that his contributions outshine any of them by the time they can actually put their power to the test.

I'm not a fan of LTCs, 0% growths, so my point is for a standard playthrough. And, on this, you'll be more efficient if you didn't use her immediately, and that's why I'm not gimping myself because that allows me to make my whole team more solid, and like Elise, she can't be everywhere at the same time. I don't like to rely too much on a few units, that's just not how I play. In most normal playthroughs I saw on Youtube, it's basically a few strong characters that make the job and the rest of the team is several level behind. I prefer to manage my EXP, that's why my units are always more experienced at the same point than on these runs.

Camilla's paradox is that she joins completely overpowered and can be a game changer, yes, but you cannot really use her too much at this point. The more you use her, the later you'll need her. She's kind of between the Jagen and Oifey. She's the easy way at the moment, but this strategy has an impact on the long run.

EDIT : But I completely understand Camilla's usefulness on challenge runs.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Brand_Of_The_Exalt

[Refa]

PKL can correct me if I'm wrong, but this is an efficiency tierlist (basically LTC but not so fucking anal about turns lost). Units that are better in efficiency are better in normal play because they require less effort to get good. Even if you wait a few chapters before seriously using Camilla (and BTW, there is no reason for not giving her boss kills because you literally get more for your EXP that way), she's still the best unit in your army by far. She's ridiculous by any metric.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Refa

[Brand_Of_The_Exalt]

PKL can correct me if I'm wrong, but this is an efficiency tierlist (basically LTC but not so fucking anal about turns lost). Units that are better in efficiency are better in normal play because they require less effort to get good. Even if you wait a few chapters before seriously using Camilla (and BTW, there is no reason for not giving her boss kills because you literally get more for your EXP that way), she's still the best unit in your army by far. She's ridiculous by any metric.

Not really. Gunter is probably a good unit for LTCs (I mean, good bases, mobility, Shelter...), but he's just OK on a normal run. Viable enough, but limited. Shelter is good example of that, it's very interesting in challenge runs, but it's not that good on a standard run, unless you really want another Sing or want to correct a mistake, but there's probably an other way to do it. Completely disagree on the fact that she's the best unit. I don't really have any preferences in the Conquest cast (I have lots so they aren't really preferences...), but, off the top of my head, I prefer Xander that is much better in his role, even if he suffers from the same recruitment problem as Camilla. But he doesn't ORKO everything, so he's considered less powerful...

[avengerfive]

It doesn't matter what run you are doing, if Camilla isn't your best unit besides Corrin, you are doing something wrong.

Have you actually tried using her? Malig Camilla works fine with the Bolt Axe, the thing has 16 mt or something. Wyvern Lord Camilla is also amazing.

I understand thinking that other units catch up to her, but that's not the case. Because of her exp gain, she starts getting overleveled. Plus it helps her growths are ridiculous.

[Jedi]

I'm not a fan of LTCs, 0% growths, so my point is for a standard playthrough. And, on this, you'll be more efficient if you didn't use her immediately, and that's why I'm not gimping myself because that allows me to make my whole team more solid, and like Elise, she can't be everywhere at the same time. I don't like to rely too much on a few units, that's just not how I play. In most normal playthroughs I saw on Youtube, it's basically a few strong characters that make the job and the rest of the team is several level behind. I prefer to manage my EXP, that's why my units are always more experienced at the same point than on these runs.

Camilla's paradox is that she joins completely overpowered and can be a game changer, yes, but you cannot really use her too much at this point. The more you use her, the later you'll need her. She's kind of between the Jagen and Oifey. She's the easy way at the moment, but this strategy has an impact on the long run.

EDIT : But I completely understand Camilla's usefulness on challenge runs.

Even in a standard run, she's one of your best units. I mean I'm one of the most casual FE players I know, but I still realize how good Camilla is. You're going to be better off using her right as you get her instead of waiting till that EXP curve comes into effect as this means the chapters you have her for are easier on you as a whole.

I can understand wanting to balance your units out, thats the cool thing about FE is everyone can play their own way, I mean I use people like Nyx and Laslow fairly regularly and they are pretty much some of the weaker units Conquest has to offer.

But by the time you get Camilla, you'll have some units on their way to greatness, and over the course of the game you get more people like Leo & Xander, using her a lot doesn't weaken your chances, if anything it means you always have someone strong who can take care of your team, along with Corrin and your other elites.

[Brand_Of_The_Exalt]

Yes, and she wasn't that great once everybody caught her, which happened quite quickly because I waited before seriously using her. (the Bolt Axe has 14 Might, 65 Hit, -20 Avoid, costs 3300G and cannot trigger critical hits)

But she seems to be better compared to the rest of the army because she slows down their progression... Her stats seem to be higher through the game because of her bases and well balanced but higher growths rates, but she doesn't shine anywhere in her niches. Her Res starts high but not high enough for her level (other mage-killers join with similar Res and will grow much faster...), same for her Skl, her Speed hit the cap quickly (around Chapter 23, but this cap is low so it never shine) and doesn't stay very high very long compared to your fast units, her Strength is awesome though. She can also trigger Dragon Veins, but it's not that rare once you start getting children. I guess she makes a good bulky but not too slow and flying hybrid... but I consider Xander much better than her, shining as a poking unit with his Prf, high Str, Def, Lck and sword.

Camilla is good unit on the moment, but doesn't make an amazing investment IMO. She makes a good day to day unit, but I usually plan in the long run and don't like to count on a limited part of my army (it's not a question balancing, quite the contrary), so her interest is rather limited for me. Our playstyles just differ on this point, that's it.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Brand_Of_The_Exalt

[Dark Holy Elf]

It's completely untrue that Camilla makes a bad investment. Compare Camilla at */20 to any other unit at 20/15 (or choose any other equivalent levels); she should have better stats than almost anyone, and certainly better than any other "balanced" unit (barring maybe some Aptitude child build?). Using her doesn't take disproportional exp away from anyone else unless you choose to have it happen, no more than raising any other combat unit.

It's pretty much never optimum to bench a unit at first and start using them later. Who are you planning to bench for Camilla when you decide to start fielding her? Whoever it is, you'd be better off benching that unit immediately and giving her their share of kills in chapter 10-12 (or whatever), since whoever it is she'll be better than them during that part of the game, and will consume the same resources.

[avengerfive]

I'm doing a CQ Lunatic run and I'm on Ch23. I figured I could take some pictures of Camilla vs common enemies to show how ridiculous she gets. This is a no-grind/DLC/skillbuying/paralouges/etc run.

Her stats at the start of the chapter, after tonics. I think I used a spirit dust on her.

Vs Spearmaster

VS Sniper

VS Basara (These guys have the highest res on the map @ 23-24)

[Brand_Of_The_Exalt]

It's completely untrue that Camilla makes a bad investment. Compare Camilla at */20 to any other unit at 20/15 (or choose any other equivalent levels); she should have better stats than almost anyone, and certainly better than any other "balanced" unit (barring maybe some Aptitude child build?). Using her doesn't take disproportional exp away from anyone else unless you choose to have it happen, no more than raising any other combat unit.

It's pretty much never optimum to bench a unit at first and start using them later. Who are you planning to bench for Camilla when you decide to start fielding her? Whoever it is, you'd be better off benching that unit immediately and giving her their share of kills in chapter 10-12 (or whatever), since whoever it is she'll be better than them during that part of the game, and will consume the same resources.

Please note that I didn't say bad. I also said 'seriously using her', not benching her. She got some kills, a lot of Dual Strikes, and tanked. But I did not use her as a standard unit. I'm not idiot...

I'm doing a CQ Lunatic run and I'm on Ch23. I figured I could take some pictures of Camilla vs common enemies to show how ridiculous she gets. This is a no-grind/DLC/skillbuying/paralouges/etc run.

Her stats at the start of the chapter, after tonics. I think I used a spirit dust on her.

Vs Spearmaster

VS Sniper

VS Basara (These guys have the highest res on the map @ 23-24)

Hum, hum, let's see : she is paired up, got some bonuses, has a ridiculous level for this map, so your other guys are... level 12 I guess, maybe not 'cause everybody seems to be paired up, so you maybe split the experience between a small part of your army. Because having 35 Def at this point is pure non-sense, she should have around 18 + (45/100)*16 = 25 Def. Same for every stat aside from Str and Skl.

EDIT : I randomly opened Mangs' run on chapter 25, she is a level 14 Malig Knight (huh ?) and has : Str : 30 + 2, Mag : 16, Skl : 21, Speed : 28 (capped), Lck : 15 (w/ bonus), Def : 26, Res : 21. That's not incredible. It's high overall, but being polyvalent does not mean being good. Being correct everywhere means ntot being good anywhere so stats stacking isn't a good strategy anyway (if we can call that by this name), and there is no niche that gets out of this. Her Spd is caped at 28 (what a shame for this growth), her Res and Skl are bad, her Lck and Mag are low, her Def is average. It doesn't excell anywhere aside from Str (and my Peri had this Str at Chapter 20 EDIT:21 with an Energy Drop...). So I maintain what I said. The easy way.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Brand_Of_The_Exalt

[Vorena]

@Brand_Of_The_Exalt:

These are her lv 15 average stats compared to Malig Knight maximums. She has already capped speed and has a pretty dang high Defense and Resistance. Given another 5 levels it will bump up about 1 point at least and a lil'more. Plus, she will cap strength. Note how she is very close to capping skill as well. Luck overall never has to be capped, but there is no doubt her luck is very high. However, her growths could actually be a bit higher than they are once you go Wyvern Lord which you want to get at the very least for Rally Defense for that +4 defense on a turn you want to tank rather than flat out try killing everything in sight. Anyway, Wyvern knight is an extra 10% hp, 5% more skill, 5% more speed, 5% more lck, and 10% more def at the exchange of losing a +15% resistance growth. Wyvern Lord is also the better class to stick with in the long wrong since it has better caps. Not like those caps are actually useful as really only speed and strength she will be capping.

Lv15Magli Knight vs Maximums of class.

HP   Str  Mag  Skl  Spd  Lck  Def  Res 
35.6 28.1 16.6 23.4 27.4 15.5 24.3 23.4
55   31   30   28   27   25   31   31

Now, I believe you are right that Camilla will fall behind eventually. Her HP is quite low from say wanting 45-50 hp by end game. However, that falling behind is very minimal. Many characters can cap stats, but will not be happening much later into the game by which time Camilla has quite a long time to provide her worth. Her worth is that from the moment you get her she is an immediate use to the team. You might get others to do what she could have done, but it doesn't matter. If you take 2-3 units to KO a target it only took herself to accomplish she is instantly better because of it for that chapter.

The question of EXP is hard to quantify without formula and level of units per chapter. The main point you can take from Camilla is that you do not have to do really any special babying with her. Give her KOs a few times a map as you can easily do because she can fly and has high strength and speed forever practically and does not really matter who she gets EXP from as she has no difficulty getting EXP from various sources. You need something dead she can do it and not really have to do anything special to her. As you keep doing this through the game by simply using her without any special regard to "Oh, this character is falling behind or can't quite KO units" she will get levels and keep up with enemy stats. She is a very low maintenance unit and this is therefore better than a character like Mizo who has to spend literally her joining chapter getting special KOs to catch up to the rest of your units to even start to carry her weight of taking up a unit slot.

Now, we can get into the perks of other things such as her class itself. Wyvern Lord is a pretty dang good class and very few units are actually going to be able to go flyer naturally or even be good as a flier. You have Elise and Beruka. This was covered earlier, but if you do the calculations Beruka is not doing any niche role at all. Camilla is still better even after you go and raise Beruka from her base level to try to join Camilla. Elise... moving on. Her growth rates are not condusive to being a Wyvern Lord. She could go Malig Knight and be a straight up attack tome user. However, again she takes forever to get up to Camilla level of combat. Otherwise, there are really no other good units to contest her attributes in a flying role beyond Avatar.

I do not think I have to go into how useful it is to have someone who can fly around with high movement and one round KO targets. It opens up their ability to be applied into so many positions on the map and be incredibly flexible.

So for many of the reasons above this is why Camilla is placed so high. She is one of the only units who can join you from an early time and simply be phenomenal at combat and continue to be without any special investment into items to be considered useful and she is useful in not even a niche way. Its useful whenever you need something dead which is greatly unbound due to flying. Is the best user of a class for pretty much the whole game except endgame where you might get a kid unit. However, that kid unit will be marginally better than Camilla and not have been around for so long.

Since this is a Tier List if Camilla is not a great unit who should be on top of the tier list than the real question is rather than trying to deny the obvious strengths she has argue who can top the strengths pointed out above? The strengths summarized as:

--Access to Flying utility and high movement

--Requires no special items to see useful combat or continue to see useful combat all the way through to the endgame. (A late game consideration to change into Wyvern Lord or slightly earlier to get better physical stats, Rally Defense, better speed cap, and HP)

--Requires no special babying to get KOs

--Rather early access (Chapter 10)

--Dragon Vein User (that flies)

Edited December 17, 2016 by Vorena

[Shadow Mir]

^Erm, I don't know why you're saying that Camilla's luck is very high when she has one of the worst luck growths in the game...

[GoXDS]

Hum, hum, let's see : she is paired up, got some bonuses, has a ridiculous level for this map, so your other guys are... level 12 I guess, maybe not 'cause everybody seems to be paired up, so you maybe split the experience between a small part of your army. Because having 35 Def at this point is pure non-sense, she should have around 18 + (45/100)*16 = 25 Def. Same for every stat aside from Str and Skl.

you're forgetting that she's 10/1 base. so she's effectively 20/11 right now, which gives the same exp as 10/16. so no, she is not at a ridiculous lvl for that chapter where enemies are 11-12.

[Ownagepuffs]

surprised Effie is so high, even as one of her biggest fans.

I love how most characters would kill to have Camilla's base stats even at like 20/10. What the fuck were they thinking.

[Florete]

Yes, and she wasn't that great once everybody caught her, which happened quite quickly because I waited before seriously using her. (the Bolt Axe has 14 Might, 65 Hit, -20 Avoid, costs 3300G and cannot trigger critical hits)

But she seems to be better compared to the rest of the army because she slows down their progression... Her stats seem to be higher through the game because of her bases and well balanced but higher growths rates, but she doesn't shine anywhere in her niches. Her Res starts high but not high enough for her level (other mage-killers join with similar Res and will grow much faster...), same for her Skl, her Speed hit the cap quickly (around Chapter 23, but this cap is low so it never shine) and doesn't stay very high very long compared to your fast units, her Strength is awesome though. She can also trigger Dragon Veins, but it's not that rare once you start getting children. I guess she makes a good bulky but not too slow and flying hybrid... but I consider Xander much better than her, shining as a poking unit with his Prf, high Str, Def, Lck and sword.

Camilla is good unit on the moment, but doesn't make an amazing investment IMO. She makes a good day to day unit, but I usually plan in the long run and don't like to count on a limited part of my army (it's not a question balancing, quite the contrary), so her interest is rather limited for me. Our playstyles just differ on this point, that's it.

You're actually flat-out admitting to basing your judgement of her on a sandbag. You seriously think this is fair? "I waited to really use her and then she wasn't that good." Well, I guess Xander is garbage because I waited until Ch 20 to use him and damn, he sucked.

Camilla does not "slow down" progression any more than any other unit would. For every unit you have in your army, someone else is not in your army. Every time a unit gets a kill, another unit did not get that kill. This applies to everyone. If anything, Camilla actually speeds up progression because she starts higher than everyone else, so she requires less investment, investment that can be spread to the army.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Florete

[Augestein]

surprised Effie is so high, even as one of her biggest fans.

I love how most characters would kill to have Camilla's base stats even at like 20/10. What the fuck were they thinking.

They weren't. Seriously, 18 def, 19 spd, 15 res and 18 strength? Like even if she had terrible growths that would still be stupid.

[Vorena]

^Erm, I don't know why you're saying that Camilla's luck is very high when she has one of the worst luck growths in the game...

When it comes to rerecording data from one location to the next and without much proofreading I have to say occasionally things come out which are unintended which would be caught through proofreading though not always. In retrospect, her lv20 luck is ~66% of that of the cap for a Malig Knight. 5% higher with a Wyvern Lord over 20 levels. Then, you have a +3 lck increase from a change from Malig to Wyvern Lord. The more silly thing I missed was maximum stats per character which Camilla gets a -2.

Anyway, her base 12 luck as Malig make her have sufficient levels of luck for combat purposes. Can it be better, yes. As well as the HP.

'

However, this stat I do not think is conducive enough to say, "Alright, Camilla only get decent Lck rather than supreme luck! Her combat sucks now and nullifies every other strength she has going for her. Gunter SSS tier unit confirmed".

There has been much comparison of Camilla against various things and information shown, but no one has argued much for Camilla not being the best and supplied a sufficient replacement. Its simply been either Camilla is good versus is not as great as you think. Though it is all relative and we need two sufficient things to compare with such as say Camilla vs Azura or Corrin.

[Florete]

They weren't. Seriously, 18 def, 19 spd, 15 res and 18 strength? Like even if she had terrible growths that would still be stupid.

Oh, they were. They just made her really strong intentionally. It's not a surprise given her sexy design; they knew players would want to use her and they didn't want these players to be disappointed with a weak unit, so they made her strong.

[Augestein]

Oh, they were. They just made her really strong intentionally. It's not a surprise given her sexy design; they knew players would want to use her and they didn't want these players to be disappointed with a weak unit, so they made her strong.

lol. I guess that's a possibility. Still, she's sickeningly strong.

[Shadow Mir]

However, this stat I do not think is conducive enough to say, "Alright, Camilla only get decent Lck rather than supreme luck! Her combat sucks now and nullifies every other strength she has going for her. Gunter SSS tier unit confirmed".

I wouldn't dare say stuff like that. All told, it's something that has the potential to be an annoyance lategame (I ended up having to give her Veteran Intuition in my CQ Hard playthrough to stifle it).

[Vorena]

I wouldn't dare say stuff like that. All told, it's something that has the potential to be an annoyance lategame (I ended up having to give her Veteran Intuition in my CQ Hard playthrough to stifle it).

True. My main point I was trying to get across is that very often in any forum discussion people get off on tangents trying to defend or attack minor pieces of evidence and completely miss the bigger picture argument. I do not expect all pieces of evidence to be 100% accurate since its a forum and we all do this on our spare time. Some amount of human error is expected. Its a larger issue when most points of contention are flat up wrong. Though given the small tolerances for mistakes does the overall evidence point to a bigger argument that we can see to be supported as true or not.

Honestly, I cannot even really begin to argue about Azura/Camilla being better. Its always been hard to say which provides more benefit to a clear. The person who enables another user to move twice in a turn or the person who destroys stuff that gets in your way? Who ultimately saves more turns for the least amount of resources invested?

[guedesbrawl]

Keep in mind that this is for Lunatic. I have issues training Mozu on Hard.

I've had no issues training Mozu on the Lunatic!Conquest Recruitment Swap of all things.

...but eh, she's kinda of necessary there (good luck taking out Haitaka without her now that you don't have Odin for Heartseeker abuse), and her only competition for the earlygame slot is Hana who sucks amazingly hard so eh.

Edited December 18, 2016 by guedesbrawl

[guedesbrawl]

And about Elise; if you need to use her to heal someone who's been hit (since let's face it, until Ch12, most of your team is 2HKO'd anyway), then she gets EXP for healing. What about the times where you strategically chip->then->kill the few enemies that you're encountering, like the squad-based enemies in the Rainbow Tower, or the groups of 3 in the Ice Village? If you are playing safely and briskly, you can take on a lot of battling without needing to even heal up, with careful point plugging and such. Sure, it's nice to have Elise heal you up, along with Felicia/Jakob if you've got them, but

Elise rocks if you're not paying attention to what you're doing, because she can help you pick up the slack from you mistakes. Her healing can be replaced by Vulneraries or by Felicia/Jakob. Early on, a lot of your combat can't be replaced by one unit or another. You can shuffle options around but when you need to land 4 hits, there's only so many ways to do it with 3 units. If I can get through Chapters 9 and 11 without using Elise at all, and not by turtling, others can too.

If you're playing in a way that doesn't heavily involve healing after being punished for pushing risks, then Elise doesn't rock, because she's not doing anything. If your nearby enemies are dead, she isn't a combatant who can place herself intelligently to attack the next group of enemies, or prepare for a counter-attack. In these situations, she does nothing. In chapter 10, you could have her go for turns without doing anything because with all the splitting up that you have to do, she can just pick a side and let the others handle themselves, which means that if you split your group into three squads, two can handle themselves without Elise's help. This diminishes her value, because if 2/3 groups can handle themselves without Elise's support, then in theory, all 3 could.

She is very very helpful but not absolutely necessary for a large majority of the game. Niles fills a niche that no one else can early, and lategame, you don't want to dedicate resources towards. Kaze can achieve the same sort of thing with reference to combat; he'll debilitate or when he promotes he can handle traps and stuff, and always has 2 range combat to work with attackstance and therefore helps your team by providing opportunities to render Elise's healing completely unecessary, reducing her EXP gain and prolonging her time as a Troubadour. Elise can't do the same to units like Niles and Kaze. She can heal so fighters don't have to heal themselves, in a game where you can cover for your team in a pinch with other units to take a blow.

First of all, nobody but Corrin is absolutely necessary. You will need a healthy number of DV users for C21/24/Endgame to not become ridiculous but otherwise there is no "need" for anyone beyond Chapter 7 (which is balanced with all available units in mind.)

Second, the bolded part. This is not FE7 where you are ranked for time. This is not Tellius, where quick clears give you EXP. While surely some chapters are designed to mess with you if you try it (10), press you for time either for the entire run (21), huge separated chunks (24) or a single point in the map where you need to rush (14), if you can turtle, it is usually the best possible way to play a map. Quick clears do nothing to the player besides making the game unnecessarily more difficult in most cases because Turtling gives you more control of the map.

If there is one self-imposed restriction that we must value when making tier lists in games with no rewards for LTC, it is "safety". The only thing that comes close to an unspoken rule in FE is "don't let your units die".

About Staves vs Vulneraries. i think this is a moot point. Yeah, you can have 10 combat units instead of 9 + Elise... but if some of these units waste turns to consume vulneraries, what is the net gain there? This depends on the map and strategy employed (and which Servant you have, since Jakob makes offense more viable than Felicia, who makes defense much stronger for a while)

There is also the cost-benefit. Vulneraries eat one of your weapon slots (arguably not as impactful earlier), but they also cost you more for less gain:

Vulneraries cost 300g and heal exactly 10 per use, for a total of 30 HP. So you are paying 100g for each 10 HP you heal

Heal costs 500g (with a chance at being 475)... but at MINIMUM heals 10 HP per each of its 20 uses (+ 1/3 of the user's MAG), for a total of 200 HP. (Elise at base should be healing 12 or 13, so that's 240 or 260 per Heal). In other words, you are paying only 25g for each 10 Hp you heal, while frequently getting more than just 10 HP and sometimes being lucky to get that value for less gold.

It is much better for your party to rely on Heal and have stronger weapons than it is to frequently waste slots with healing items and progressively eat your resources more, imo.

You also forget that Elise can help a lot with her defensive bonuses. Keeping her around lets your party take less damage, which in turn lets your party takes more risks. she also has passive utility earlier from being a high MOV ferry and giving RES boosts in Chapter 8.

Not to mention later on you can count on Elise to ORKO units like Faceless, Oni Chieftains, Spearmasters and Masters of Arms reliably as long as they can't hit her back for DEF, which is pretty good (Potentially Berzerkers with the right SPD boosts), and her high SPD makes her good magic bait. With her high RES, she can work extremely well with a STR-based attack stance partner to wipe out chunks of enemy mages in maps like 20 and 22 without having any problems. Her insane magic stat makes Elise one of the strongest attack stance partners you can have to deal with Wary Fighter generals as well.

Demoiselle+Rally Resistance+Lily's Poise gives one heck of a RES boost if you can set it up, too (9), and things like Freeze and Entrap can be complete game changers that take out key threats and turn them into jokes. (unless they are 0 MOV staff users, gaaaahhh....)

...

all of that said, i don't know what tier you are arguing her to belong on, so... just dropping this here. lol

[guedesbrawl]

Oh, they were. They just made her really strong intentionally. It's not a surprise given her sexy design; they knew players would want to use her and they didn't want these players to be disappointed with a weak unit, so they made her strong.

Camilla's OPness is related more to the level of challenge posed by Chapter 10 than anything else. Chapter 10 is well designed... but it's designed around Camilla being available. I honestly believe they should have made Chapter 10 slightly easier, given you an extra slot (so you can train mozu and bring both mages, one as a fire orb bot and other for combat), with Camilla being made available a little later.