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PKL's Conquest Tier List v1.1


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You can use it for transfer chains if you need to move a unit. Say unit A moves, you then move over and use Shelter on it with unit B. Then you follow up by having unit C transfer A and then drop the other unit, thus the unit can move 1+ spaces farther than they should have been able to (by continuing to pass this unit along other non-paired up units). So you can net some movement as opposed to just using a simple pair up transfer chain.

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It is also possible to "rescue" units that got in range of enemies. Some of the shelter users like Xander are tanks who don't mind facing two or three enemies at once.

Shelter also allows for getting in enemies range/destroying doors/walls and retreating. This way enemies start to move and get in your range. This is one easy (though slow) way to handle some parts of chapter 25 and 26.

But it is mostly dancing+flying that makes shelter so great.

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Tried Strategist!Felicia- it was pretty meh. Slow enough that she needs a +Spe Pair Up to double, bad durability, misses out on a number of 2HKOs due to E tomes. Probably better ways to use a Heart Seal IMO.

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Tried Strategist!Felicia- it was pretty meh. Slow enough that she needs a +Spe Pair Up to double, bad durability, misses out on a number of 2HKOs due to E tomes. Probably better ways to use a Heart Seal IMO.

Rip felicia 2016-2017

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With no bonus items, the Raider weapons are out. Dunno about forging, since it's technically possible to forge anything, given enough time.

The concern about forging is that it's mainly a luck-of-the-draw thing - I don't think it's fair to make an argument based on so-and-so getting a forge when I largely can't count on having the appropriate mineral in the castle, and if you DON'T, the process slows way down.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia
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The concern about forging is that it's mainly a luck-of-the-draw thing - I don't think it's fair to make an argument based on so-and-so getting a forge when I largely can't count on having the appropriate mineral in the castle, and if you DON'T, the process slows way down.

It's still doable, hence the "given enough time" part. I can see +7 forges taking forever, even if you have the right ore in your castle. A +1 (and MAYBE +2) isn't quite as insane.

Edited by eclipse
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+7 isn't possible in no-grind. +1, +2, and maaybe +3 are. I have no problem assuming a reasonable clip of playing and using combinations of the gem mine, lottery, and arena to get the gems needed; I do that every playthrough.

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I'd say that anything more than a +2 is a pretty tough sell due to both the ore and the cost of the weapons, given that you only regularly produce one of the six ore types.

Edited by -Cynthia-
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So assuming efficiency play wants to get all the useful chests/side objectives and does not completely ban children...

Odin/Elise will wind up on par with or better than Xander by the time he shows up and are far from useless early on. Quite the opposite they're both entirely capable of handling half the map on Ch10 lunatic in efficiency play. Odin is also semi-forced to get the lunatic ch10 elixir (there are other routes to get the item, but all of them involve using an early promo Nyx/partner seal Felecia and are rng-heavy)

Odin is also the enemy phase unit of choice from ch9-ch13 (he never really falls off Ophelia just exists) thanks to his flat refusal to die with nosferatu equipped, this leads to some of the fastest/least rng dependent efficiency play routes. His start is shit but getting 2 levels on Odin in a rather brisk 3 village ch8 is not terribly difficult provided you are using draco elise/corrin. Past that you have Nos and paralouge 1 which is an exp bonanza route map. Odin will never double consistently but that's effectively a non-issue since he walks around with nos/forged mjolnir/lightning superglued to his hands. His magic is also sub-par which would cause all sorts of issues if CQ didn't vomit spirit dust and pairup wasn't a thing. (It is actually sub-optimal to feed Odin dusts if you're using Ophelia who needs to consume all of them to actually bump her statue boosted magic cap). Even if you despise Odin and have no intention of getting child paralouges getting him to level 10/1 and stapling him to Leo is still considerably stronger than Leo's actual pairings.

He also gives Ophelia, who is just hands down the most broken unit in the game.

On the other hand Elise will outpreform Camilia in the 7-10 segment of the game due to cam not existing, (str+2 and crack speed make her very viable with a light bronze forge), drops off in 11 (free feeding w/e) is worse than useless on 12, and then she just picks up a bolt axe and the angelic robe to become the highest damage/movement unit in the game and does very silly things like one shotting wary fighter enemies in ch18/23/26. She is a bit of a resource sink though as she does desperately want the most coveted commodity in the game, secret books. She also consumes the coveted ch7 heart seal but that's honestly fair game as you want dragon fang and Jakobdin is a pretty awful invest.

Laslow could rise a bit, he's a bit of a corner case alongside Soliel but ch12-14 are frankly free exp even when moving at a rather brisk pace, they mostly hold the niche of making the silence stave route in ch25 worth doing ever in an efficiency setting but it's hard to under-rate high damage high bulk 1-2 sol and bronze bow forge access.

Edit: Silias ranked under Xander is fucking weird considering he's around for a good 9 chapters before KFC man shows up, has a functionally stronger personal, and can pick up the bronze bow/iron bow for the ch17-26 segment. He also comes free with Sophie. Unlike Seigbert who uuuh, functionally does not exist. (Props to anyone who does that paralouge in nogrind without Ophelia)

Arthur gets underated a lot, fates zerkers are very very good. Effie is a trap. Makes a reasonable Percy though.

On the note of forges. Early bronze bow forge will see use all game long. Kinshi/bowknight swarms via Mozu/Selena/Azura X Silias + Niles&Nina are quite good at shredding through things on PP.

Edited by joshcja
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I can't believe it's been almost a year, and people are still trying to say that Myrmidon Odin is the best thing to do for Odin as opposed to just buying him Nosferatu given that it fixes his base stat issues in chapters 9 and 10 and doesn't gimp his speed like the hand axe/javelin do for Effie/Arthur, while also boosting his bulk. It's not like you're really ever short on funds in Conquest, especially in an efficient run where you'll get all the money chests.

Mozu is the only unit who should be in bottom tier. She's only useful in chapter 10 (where everyone can be made to be useful and even Nyx is a better Archer than her in this chapter) if you give her a heart seal, and won't be able to catch up beyond that. As for Jakob 2 and Benny:

While Jakob 2 is worse than Felicia 2, is there any real reason they should be a tier apart? What exactly does Felicia 2 really have over him that makes her so much better? Ranger support for Leo (and maybe Corrin or someone else who'd want it) or useless higher staff accuracy when Flora and Izana exist vs Jakob getting shelter and a child paralogue?

Benny at base has a setup where if you remove def+2 and equip him with the beast killer, you can have Camilla fly him to a certain spot in the middle of chapter 14 that allows him to Attack stance kill all the Myrmidon and Pegasus that will try and kill him, all while not having to worry about the hexing rod screwing him over. This should get him a level up or possibly 2 before promotion all while clearing the center of the map, making it easier to get the money chest for a 3-4 turn clear (last I checked you can't get this chest in 2 turns?). It also nets him a C support with Camilla. Since Corrin is likely moving south to recruit Keaton, most other units that could probably replicate this same result I've found to be suspect to being killed because of the hexing rod. Silas or Jakob could probably do it, but I've never tried.

His personal skill and high defense is also really useful in chapter 19 without much effort, and then he has his pair-up bonuses which aren't that bad for units with high speed like Selena, Peri, Camilla, or Charlotte. This alone sounds better than what Mozu is ever doing, and is probably pretty similar to what other units in Low tier do (though most of them are just pair-up bots and may not even have two chapters of combat usefulness other than Nyx and Laslow if you reclass him?).

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  • 2 weeks later...

Myrmidon Odin hype is bizarre; I imagine it only exists because of Awakening. Myrm!Odin is basically Selena who starts with an E in swords, a worse overall stat build (less speed mostly), and puts you down a valuable Heart Seal. And Selena's not that great.

Nosferatu Odin is... okay (I wouldn't write the 4000 GP cost off so fast myself, money isn't so plentiful in Conquest that we can't find other uses for it, especially early), though even then he's Low Tier at best.

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Well he has some Mag growth but as a hybrid, his Mag (even with malefic aura) as a Samurai is pretty low and needs to get to C Swords. After somehow getting there and perhaps with Spirit Dusts, he’s okay with 1-2 range/doubling/vantage (but no mount, flying still). Hilariously, Samurai!Odin has comparable base atk to Wyvern!Elise early on between Bronze Axe mt and Str+2, and obviously her Mag is actually high if/when reaching to C rank. Stick with Nosferatu, probably.

How many 1-2 range ohkos is say…Effie really expected to get at this pace? Because if it’s more a durability thing, how comparable is it to Nosferatu Odin? I see Nostanking gets some hype still, though personally I’m still not very sure how it compares or fits into efficient clears (that seem to be more known).

Re: Jakob 2, if you penalize him for Male Corrin/Felicia 1 instead of Female Corrin/Jakob 1, then he’s probably considerably worse. Otherwise, I guess Felicia 2 is a good default Leo Pair Up (Gives Spd and Maid’s mag may help ohkos. Doesn’t require a seal, which are limited midgame) and can Flame Shuriken dent things with no investment. Jakob is strictly worse at that (less Spd/Mag for Leo, no Forrest, less Mag for chip). Shelter requires a seal and setting up kills for 2 levels, and there’s diminishing returns after so many users. Silas, Peri, Gunter are all available in every context (since everyone is kept alive by the rules) and do not require resources.

Still, it seems all of low/bottom have some kind of niche except Mozu. Tho, I suppose Mozu can catch up in exp with minimal turncount/reliability impact in chapter 10 and become a Kinishi (so even she has something usable, flight+move+player phase offense), but it requires 1 of 2 early heart seals. Corrin/Jakob/Arthur can use it for mounts, or maybe save it for later like giving wings to Selena/Gunter or switching between Wyvern and Malig for Camilla/Jakob.  

(I think Mozu in her own tier and shifting around low/bottom is reasonable though)

Edited by XeKr
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I don't think penalizing Jakob 2 for denying us Jakob 1 (or Felicia for denying us Jakob etc.) fits it with most tier list philosophy- that's a recruitment cost thing. I think Jakob's 2 main use might be reclassing to Great Knight and helping Corrin in situations where the extra durability is needed- you probably just want Gunter instead most of the time but it is a possible niche.

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3 hours ago, XeKr said:

Well he has some Mag growth but as a hybrid, his Mag (even with malefic aura) as a Samurai is pretty low and needs to get to C Swords. After somehow getting there and perhaps with Spirit Dusts, he’s okay with 1-2 range/doubling/vantage (but no mount, flying still). Hilariously, Samurai!Odin has comparable base atk to Wyvern!Elise early on between Bronze Axe mt and Str+2, and obviously her Mag is actually high if/when reaching to C rank. Stick with Nosferatu, probably.

I ain't really seeing the hype, because Vantage requires half HP or less, and with the Levin Sword murdering his avoid... Yeah, he won't last. I also agree with Dark Holy Elf's point on Nosferatu.

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Sorry if this is kinda off-topic, but dis a cool thread. It's kinda making me want to do a Lunatic Conquest efficiency run ahaha... ;; can anyone recommend some good guides/tips for no-grind Lunatic Conquest? 

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Late reply, etc.

 

On 1/21/2017 at 0:38 PM, -Cynthia- said:

I don't think penalizing Jakob 2 for denying us Jakob 1 (or Felicia for denying us Jakob etc.) fits it with most tier list philosophy- that's a recruitment cost thing. I think Jakob's 2 main use might be reclassing to Great Knight and helping Corrin in situations where the extra durability is needed- you probably just want Gunter instead most of the time but it is a possible niche.

Well yeah, if you want Str/Def/move Gunter gives that without a seal (or he can fly). Base Gunter already gives 5 Def due to C support probably building in C15 so it’s just like 2 Def vs. 3 Str/Mag out of the gate (with Jakob using a midgame seal). The avoid can be nice but so is the hit to patch up accuracy against many generics or to improve odds on gate/throne bosses. Potential flight (in combination with Shelter!) likely the most relevant though.

Felicia (and Gunter again) also can give Spd/Move for to cover other Corrin builds, I don’t think Corrin can always be expected to get around no +Spd Pair Up, if no meals and if not +Spd Boon and in a slow class like Wyvern/Dark Knight (even Paladin borderline, iirc). Or if RNG isn’t too happy. Jakob can give some Spd in Butler, but then no Move and less Str/Mag

Still, fine, his Pair Up niche is probably better than whatever Mozu can try to do. Not sure how it really compares to others in low.

On 1/21/2017 at 1:28 PM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I ain't really seeing the hype, because Vantage requires half HP or less, and with the Levin Sword murdering his avoid... Yeah, he won't last. I also agree with Dark Holy Elf's point on Nosferatu.

Is Odin really getting hyped at all? He’s in bottom in PKL’s list. I was more referring to differences as a Sword unit compared to Selena (he has a Mag growth and Malefic Aura). I’m speculating that maybe he gets some imagined credit as a lite version of Corrin’s Levin Sword builds (despite the ultimately massive differences in their situation and performance)

Vantage is occasionally clutch to build a Dual Guard before a lethal hit, or to bait some weakened enemies that think they have a kill or perhaps for Swordfaire/Line of Death (though very late and it would really require a lot of Mag). Vantage is probably better with Nosferatu and Tomes (that can Crit/Astra) and Odin in theory has some Str for a quick reclass (bronze though).

Basically Samurai access is pretty nonexistent in Nohr, so just talking through the implications. atm I don’t actually think it’s very useful for Odin, especially in efficient clears

On 1/21/2017 at 2:22 PM, BANRYU said:

Sorry if this is kinda off-topic, but dis a cool thread. It's kinda making me want to do a Lunatic Conquest efficiency run ahaha... ;; can anyone recommend some good guides/tips for no-grind Lunatic Conquest? 

In brief for fast/reliable clears (imo. PKL or others might have better advice. I’m still getting back into Fates and reacquainted with what’s been figured out the past months):

-          +Str or +Mag. – Luck. I wouldn’t disregard +Spd either. A lot of the fastest clears that some cite as efficient use Raider weapons/Mess Hall/other my castle stuff which isn’t that consistent.

-          Reclass Jakob to Paladin and Corrin to Cav/Wyvern early on. I prefer Jakob first, but it’s a bit contingent on doing Mozu’s paralogue for him to snowball. Other builds include Ninja or Mage for 1-2 range since Corrin is bulky, fast, and has the servant bonuses unlike other ranged units. Ninja probably more relevant since it’s physical. Magical builds compete with Cav/Wyvern using Magic weapons who have more move and durability.

-          Early promote some people (maybe Effie, Nyx) for midgame

-          Have a Wyvern Lord with D lances to Beastkiller C19

-          Get Silence in C25 to save some C26 headache. Have Shurikenbreaker to ease this (or brute force through, break the wall, and get it the turn Corrin wins the duel)

-          Save at least 1 Rescue staff use for endgame.

-          Other chapters have various nuances (many I’m missing/forgot) but I think those make some of the biggest differences.

-          In general spam Freeze/Entrap/Enfeeble as necessary to stop nasty enemy combinations.

-          There’s a lot of potential good captures if you allow it. The rallybot in C23 is cool, but also fliers for ferrying purposes, shove/swap bots, combat units that don’t require training, generally disposable units, etc.

joshcja will probably recommend you use Odin, but I’m not sure who else has had much success with him (low/bottom on all tier lists I’ve seen). Kanna/Ophelia pretty great though and Nosferatu still can help even with the nerf. 

The Lunatic Club (Fates) has a lot of discussion that may be relevant if you are playing though Conquest Lunatic the first time, at whatever pace you prefer (efficiency or not).

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14 minutes ago, XeKr said:

In brief for fast/reliable clears (imo. PKL or others might have better advice. I’m still getting back into Fates and reacquainted with what’s been figured out the past months):

-          +Str or +Mag. – Luck. I wouldn’t disregard +Spd either. A lot of the fastest clears that some cite as efficient use Raider weapons/Mess Hall/other my castle stuff which isn’t that consistent. Did +Mag/-Luk and planning to try the magic Paladin build. I'm excited to try it but don't really know what skills to go for, if it matters.

-          Reclass Jakob to Paladin and Corrin to Cav/Wyvern early on. I prefer Jakob first, but it’s a bit contingent on doing Mozu’s paralogue for him to snowball. Other builds include Ninja or Mage for 1-2 range since Corrin is bulky, fast, and has the servant bonuses unlike other ranged units. Ninja probably more relevant since it’s physical. Magical builds compete with Cav/Wyvern using Magic weapons who have more move and durability. Okay I'm playing a male Corrin, so might be a bit of a disadvantage, but Felicia@Strategist has been pulling her weight pretty good so far. Her frailness has been irritating but she can ORKO a lot of things that matter pretty good so there's that. 

EDIT: Oh also my corrin is currently sitting pretty as a Cav, but is actually pretty weak (has trouble killing things after coming out of Nohr Prince with the Dragonstone and whatnot), so hopefully that gets better...? Should be fine once I can get my hands on a Levin Sword... until then I've been mostly using Camilla to babysit him

-          Early promote some people (maybe Effie, Nyx) for midgame Good to know, I'll keep it in mind. Nyx has actually been all right so far for me.

-          Have a Wyvern Lord with D lances to Beastkiller C19 Might be tricky but I'll attempt. Hopefully Beruka or Percy will manage

-          Get Silence in C25 to save some C26 headache. Have Shurikenbreaker to ease this (or brute force through, break the wall, and get it the turn Corrin wins the duel)

-          Save at least 1 Rescue staff use for endgame.

-          Other chapters have various nuances (many I’m missing/forgot) but I think those make some of the biggest differences.

-          In general spam Freeze/Entrap/Enfeeble as necessary to stop nasty enemy combinations. @ this and above ones I didn't respond to, don't have much to say on it but is good to know. Hoping/assuming the various staves aren't too expensive in terms of upkeep; I typically try to save their uses as much as possible though I did wind up having to use a double Freeze on some of the guys in the center room of Ch11 so they didn't kill anyone. 

-          There’s a lot of potential good captures if you allow it. The rallybot in C23 is cool, but also fliers for ferrying purposes, shove/swap bots, combat units that don’t require training, generally disposable units, etc. I grabbed Haitaka already, planning to drop Odin for him as soon as he S-ranks Felicia (been using him as a pairup bot for her to make her Mag hit harder) 

joshcja will probably recommend you use Odin, but I’m not sure who else has had much success with him (low/bottom on all tier lists I’ve seen). Kanna/Ophelia pretty great though and Nosferatu still can help even with the nerf. Planning to drop him as mentioned lol. Ophelia is looking like Felicia will be her mom so hopefully that works out okay, ElisexOdin was too much trouble to bother with so. 

The Lunatic Club (Fates) has a lot of discussion that may be relevant if you are playing though Conquest Lunatic the first time, at whatever pace you prefer (efficiency or not). Ahh good thinking, I will check it out!

NP man, the advice is appreciated. Responding within the quote box.

Currently I'm up to Chapter 12, managed to get past Port Takumi hell somehow lol I was actually pretty impressed with myself for that. Not looking forward to the Pot Palace, I remember it giving me trouble but hopefully I'll be cool. Thanks again!

Edited by BANRYU
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On 1/21/2017 at 9:14 AM, XeKr said:

How many 1-2 range ohkos is say…Effie really expected to get at this pace? Because if it’s more a durability thing, how comparable is it to Nosferatu Odin? I see Nostanking gets some hype still, though personally I’m still not very sure how it compares or fits into efficient clears (that seem to be more known).

 

A few examples of Nos use are the ch9 opening/rigging enemy boss chamber movement for a lunge EP kill on the boss, getting the ch10 elixer, ch11 right side solo, ch12 topside pull off the lunge apoth, and ch13 in general. I think JSND put it best when he said "Training Odin up is pretty easy, you just let him solo maps"

Not many OHKO's happen but having a unit that cannot die and can reliably 2 round any number of enemies is very very nice when you are going for side objectives. Nos abuse just consistently shaves a turn off all objective clears or allows for greater consistency of play. It's one hell of a drug.

Effie is trash on LCQ efficiency, she just misses every single OHKO at max invest. There is no reason to use her outside of some early attack stance shenanigans.

That said efficiency is something of a made-up category in any post-gba game that gets used a lot to convince ourselves we're not all filthy casuals.

Edit: Holy fuck there's a child tier list. And Ophelia is in the same rank as Kana.The unit that can solo LCQ is in the same rank as the objectively worse than Nyx fuckboi. Nopenopenopenopenope I'm triggered and I'm out.

Edited by joshcja
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Is it all right to ask for some Lunatic Conquest advice in here? .3. I was told to come get some advice from PKL and it seems like some good discussion is going on in here... If it's all right, multiple inputs would be cool... I'll just um, put my questions and whatnot in spoilers though in case this post doesn't belong here.

(@mods if, uh, this post indeed doesn't belong here it'd be great if it could be moved to the 'I just wanna know one thing' thread instead of deleted outright since IDK if I can remember all this ;; )

Spoiler

So my status is I'm doing Lunatic for the first time, currently on Ch11, trying to do no-grind + no bonus items/DLC; here's my relevant info so far: 

  • My Corrin and most units are in the level 12-14 range (only ppl I've made a point of not using are Odin, Selena, and Mozu)
  • Corrin is male, Mag+/Luck- cavalier with sky knight talent (planning to marry Camilla for RP/character/whatever reasons so that's not liable to change)
  • Felicia got the first heart seal for Strategist
  • Arthur + Effie S-ranked, going for Percy next
  • captured Haitaka (currently level 10, skipped using him on Port Takumi but planning to use him on Percy's paralogue)
  • Felicia + Odin are A-rank going on S (mostly used Odin as a pairup bot to boost Felicia's mag)

So here are my questions, I guess...

1) Is Felicia!Ophelia bad or will that work?

2) Is Odin still able to catch up and be usable at this stage in the game or is he better off being ditched?

3) I like Odin and would like to use him, but assuming the answer to my last question is 'no'... would it be worth restarting from ch7 and doing Elise@wyvern to support with him instead of Felicia@Strategist? (Felicia's extra movement and ability to actually kill things DID help a lot during the Ice Tribe level, though...)

4) I have another heart seal. Who'd that be good to use on? Or should I save it for later?

5) is Haitaka actually worth using in earnest for long term or should I just use him for his rally in the short term? (his stats are pretty good, better overall than a lot of my level 13 units, so.....)

I only glanced at the OP before beginning my run and am kinda wishing I'd read the more recent posts, pretty annoyed I fed EXP to Nyx instead of Odin lol... I'd much rather use him if I can, used Nyx before and she wasn't the best investment, too frail... getting her as much exp as she got was kinda just circumstantial from Port Takumi...

 

Edited by BANRYU
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10 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

1) Is Felicia!Ophelia bad or will that work?

2) Is Odin still able to catch up and be usable at this stage in the game or is he better off being ditched?

3) I like Odin and would like to use him, but assuming the answer to my last question is 'no'... would it be worth restarting from ch7 and doing Elise@wyvern to support with him instead of Felicia@Strategist? (Felicia's extra movement and ability to actually kill things DID help a lot during the Ice Tribe level, though...)

4) I have another heart seal. Who'd that be good to use on? Or should I save it for later?

 

1) I'd assume she would be workable.

2) If all he's been is a pair up bot, I'd just cut my losses rather than try to salvage him.

3) I doubt it.

4) I dunno..  About the only thing coming to mind ATM is Wyvern Lord Camilla.

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28 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

1) I'd assume she would be workable.

2) If all he's been is a pair up bot, I'd just cut my losses rather than try to salvage him.

3) I doubt it.

4) I dunno..  About the only thing coming to mind ATM is Wyvern Lord Camilla.

First off, thanks for responding! 

Yeahhhh reading about people talking about Odin nosferatanking in here was kinda making me sad I didn't at least try that; I've yet to have a good run of Conquest where I actually use Odin, so I guess I felt like I was missing out... in the current playthrough I have little doubt that dropping him is the most practical choice.

I guess what I'm grappling with is, assuming I DO restart (replaying ch10 again will suck but it actually wasn't as bad as I thought, I think I actually had more trouble with ch8) is it worth it JUST to do it for Odin (and presumably wyvern Elise as well since people are saying she's really good), and IF I do that how doable is it without Strategist Felicia / Paladin Jakob.... But, to an extent that's probably something I gotta figure out for myself x____@

Regarding Camilla I prob will eventually, but I thought she wants Trample and that her magic utility is pretty good for a while....?

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16 hours ago, BANRYU said:

First off, thanks for responding! 

Yeahhhh reading about people talking about Odin nosferatanking in here was kinda making me sad I didn't at least try that; I've yet to have a good run of Conquest where I actually use Odin, so I guess I felt like I was missing out... in the current playthrough I have little doubt that dropping him is the most practical choice.

I guess what I'm grappling with is, assuming I DO restart (replaying ch10 again will suck but it actually wasn't as bad as I thought, I think I actually had more trouble with ch8) is it worth it JUST to do it for Odin (and presumably wyvern Elise as well since people are saying she's really good), and IF I do that how doable is it without Strategist Felicia / Paladin Jakob.... But, to an extent that's probably something I gotta figure out for myself x____@

Regarding Camilla I prob will eventually, but I thought she wants Trample and that her magic utility is pretty good for a while....?

No dude, don't do it. joshcja is absolutely wrong on like every count. Wyvern Elise is terrible until promotion and Odin is like mediocre at best. You're really not missing anything. Like if you want a mage, just give Camilla all the dusts and she'll be absurd.

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