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PKL's Conquest Tier List v1.1


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Keep in mind that this is for Lunatic. I have issues training Mozu on Hard.

Depends on what you do with her. If you're willing to heart seal her to an archer pretty quickly, she can be solid, but that also denotes taking that seal from someone else. Mozu is in a weird spot, because her bases aren't nearly as terrible as Donnel's or other "trainee" style units, and she actually can get some quick kills with Dual Strikes. I'd definitely say she's easier to use than Odin for sure. Honestly, it's weird, because everyone in Conquest I feel is pretty good and I haven't felt like there's some horrendous unit in it like other Fire Emblem games.

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Depends on what you do with her. If you're willing to heart seal her to an archer pretty quickly, she can be solid, but that also denotes taking that seal from someone else. Mozu is in a weird spot, because her bases aren't nearly as terrible as Donnel's or other "trainee" style units, and she actually can get some quick kills with Dual Strikes. I'd definitely say she's easier to use than Odin for sure. Honestly, it's weird, because everyone in Conquest I feel is pretty good and I haven't felt like there's some horrendous unit in it like other Fire Emblem games.

I'd agree with that were it not for Charlotte and Arthur.

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Depends on what you do with her. If you're willing to heart seal her to an archer pretty quickly, she can be solid, but that also denotes taking that seal from someone else. Mozu is in a weird spot, because her bases aren't nearly as terrible as Donnel's or other "trainee" style units, and she actually can get some quick kills with Dual Strikes. I'd definitely say she's easier to use than Odin for sure. Honestly, it's weird, because everyone in Conquest I feel is pretty good and I haven't felt like there's some horrendous unit in it like other Fire Emblem games.

This was after an immediate Heart Seal. She can't take hits early-on, which means that she's somewhat of a liability on Chapter 10 (even if dual ballistas are a huge help).

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why does a unit that is monstrous under the condition of being "used correctly" (whatever that means) be considered better than a unit that is just as mounstrous with no such strings attached?

That means that you can't do anything with your units, would you send Mist on the front lines ? Does that means she's a bad unit even so ? No. It's technically impossible to be perfect everywhere, but you can be extremely good on one situation. That's true for everything. The more you're prepared to face, the less efficient you'll be on every situation taken individually (I could give you lot of examples). Let's say you have two units. One is very tanky, the other one is a frail but has more raw attack. Believe me or not, but they are going to be more efficient than two perfectly balanced and standard units. So Elise rocks if you pay attention to what you're doing, because any mistake will not be forgiven.

bolded the important word

Do people often play without healers on normal runs ? If you're planning a LTC or whatever she may not be optimal, but I was referring to a standard playtrough.

which are amazing

They are amazing for Bases stats, I never said otherwise, but not if you're forced to keep them due to the little exp she'll get during several chapters. Her growths are also good, but will matter only if you level-up, and that's something that should not be forgotten. Yeah, she'll get more exp later, but then your team leveled much faster and already catched her, if they did not surpassed her. She would be better if joined later. Joining at level 1 promote on chapter 10 with these bases makes her a sort of a Jagen for several chapters.

the big thing here is that while elise can get to ultra turbo ridiculous mode, she doesn't start there (see: camilla), and unlike people like Kaze, Corrin or even Silas she doesn't just naturally get there by existing. she's a healer and offers valuable utility to the team... that can replicated by Jakob or Felicia if necessary (unlike Azura). she's a ludicrously powerful player phase nuke... after she promotes.

basically those qualifiers are what keep elise where she is

So from your point of view, Villagers are not worth leveling because they don't start broken ? With her Prf, and Mag she's better than Felicia and Jakob at this role. Jakob isn't even a good healer. He makes a good staffbot with his Skl but that's all, he's better on a physical role (and his potential is quite limited too in these classes, especially GK with his low Def). And Elise's potential is much bigger than Felicia's on the long run. Elise's role changes when she promotes (but is still a good support unit and healer), that's true, but through the game, she's always extremely strong in what she does. And considering her growths, if you actually use her as your main healer, there's no reason she'd not be a very strong unit.

Camilla is leagues ahead of where Endgame Beruka's speed will ever be, and she has sole demand on the Bolt Axe, which hits like a truck. Beruka's the tanky flier, which is her thing, and Camilla's growths are fine for what she is, to remain relevant for the whole game.

Also, yes, Elise shouldn't be taking hits, but if you need to place her right behind say, Arthur, who desperately needs a heal so he'll avoid death in Chapter 10, then both Arthur and Elise are put at risk if your opponent has 2-range (which many enemies do have 2-range). Early on, Elise just can't do enough compared to most of the people above her.

Camilla doesn't do that much damage with the Bolt Axe (except against enemies with very low Res), her Mag is limited. And you're given tons of good Mag users that are much better for that so another one isn't necessary.

If Arthur desperately needs to be healed, then you probably made a mistake (or got unlucky, but then he'd be dead from the crit), that's not Elise's fault. You may also not be able to avoid that with another unit (and Demoiselle works on a 2 tiles radius anyway). I beat CQ chapter 10 easily (CQ Hard was even my first playthrough) and I brought Elise (succeeded on the second try, and the first was just a miscalculation because I didn't know exactly the bonuses from the Weapon Triangle). In fact, she has been very useful at this point.

There are a lot of situations that being strong at combat outweigh the need for a healer in the first place. Having a healer means you can afford to be reckless once in a while, or patch up w/o an item, or play more aggressively. If you can just kill stuff without taking hits (attack stance Kaze+??, Javelin/Hand Axe Effie/Arthur, etc) can prevent the need for battle, and then attempt to take a hit and/or go with PairUp to mitigate damage anyway. Elise can't contribute to combat like Felicia (who joins earlier) and Jakob (who's arguably good enough as a Butler/Strat). Elise gives Jakob the option to go GK and be better but still, in Lunatic, you're not sending units around so hard in the sense that a horse would be necessary to keep up.

I think Elise is great, but I don't think she's as great from Start to Finish as additional good early-midgame combat. When she promotes, she shines, but getting her there isn't something you can rush, and there's going to be more turns where Elise does nothing than turns that say, Kaze does nothing.

If you can afford not to have a healer during the second half of the game (because of more powerful skills to exploit your units' niches), it's a good idea to bring one for the first half. You can't really avoid every fight then : all your units aren't extremely fast (and the RNG is not reliable) or tanky, like Severa, Arthur, Beruka, Silas, etc so you need to heal at one point, and then you'll lose a turn for Vulneraries. Then you'll get skills like Duelist's Blow (for example), and you'll be able to avoid getting damaged. And as I already said above, Elise promotes half-game so her role evolves at this point. And she's great in both situations. Like Kaze, she just does her job to get EXP, nothing more.

Base Growths
Name	Class		Level	HP	Str	Mag	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res
Camilla	Malig Knight	/	40	50	25	50	55	25	35	45
Beruka	Wyvern Rider	/	45	30	10	55	30	45	40	25

Camilla	Malig Knight	/	40	50*	25*	50	55*	25	35	45*
Beruka	Wyvern Lord	/	45	30	5	60	30	45	40	25

Base Stats
Name	Class           Level	HP	Str	Mag	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res
Camilla	Malig Knight	1	30	19	11	15	19	12	18	15
Beruka	Wyvern Rider	9	23	13	0	14	9	10	14	7

Camilla's got +10 speed over Beruka's never-changing 30% Speed growth. Camilla lacks up to 11 levels of growth that Beruka can gather, but even if you rush Beruka from 9 to 20 before promoting, you're taking a ton of time to get Beruka to a Lv1 Wyvern Lord (because Malig Knight wouldn't be as good for Beruka unless you're going specifically for Trample, and the gains for W.Lord suit Beruka much much more, + Rally Def)

Name	Class		Level	HP	Str	Mag	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res
Camilla	Malig Knight	1	30	19	11	15	19	12	18	15
Beruka	Wyvern Lord	1	29.95	18.3	1.1	24.05	14.3	15.95	21.4	10.75
In which Camilla is ahead in every stat other than Skill/Luck and a handful of points in Def, and Camilla's still got better growths in just about every department other than again Skill/Luk/Def by marginal amounts. 14speed with Penalties for Hand Axe usage is really really slow.

Yes, they both have different roles, so it wasn't exactly a good example. But note that Beruka's stats are higher in her niche than Camilla's in hers. 24 Skl and 21 Def beat easily Camilla's 15 Res and 19 Strength. Considering I promote my units before/during Chapter 17 (Elise on 18 and Corrin on 15), Camilla wouldn't have grown a lot at this point of the game. Unless you used her too much, she should not be more than level 3 promoted. So she's caught quickly by your other units.

Beruka a Hand Axe at his point doesn't really make sense, getting doubled by everybody to get 4 more damage during your turn isn't worth. But it gets interesting later.

Edited by Brand_Of_The_Exalt
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guys, don't forget that Camilla is an early premote. so 20/1 Beruka is overlvled compared to 10/1 Camilla. so we either compare the 2 at equal internal lvls (Camilla at Lvl 6 to Beruka Lvl 1, Tier 2) or compare them at equal lvls but taking note of Camilla's extra exp gains

Edited by GoXDS
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Base 1~2-range 25 attack that Camilla doesn't even have) targetting Res is pretty good, with combination of 1~2 range 26 atk v Defense of a Hand Axe. It's a flexibility that most units lack and can't grow into. If you nee

3 more Defense doesn't save you from the damage you take by getting doubled by potential Attack-stance enemies. Allllllllllll that work to get Beruka up to speed, could partially be shifted to Camilla, by giving her a couple of kills here-or-there, and a Bosskill (which until Xander appears, don't really need to be desperately given to any particular unit), to let her definitely good growths keep her going. I haven't even mentioned her way more useful PRF skill either, which supports allies in tremendous ways by letting her attack stance partners or others deal a sizeable increase in damage, as well as innate Trample that most units in all of Conquest won't get in any practical playthrough other than Percy and maybe Gunter?

She'll be a valuable asset in combat for much more time than Beruka, and she doesn't require special help to keep going. Others need a butt-ton of exp to catch up to Camilla, and by then, Camilla is still ahead in some areas and still valuable in others. There isn't a time that Camilla should be benched, from the moment you get her. Xander craves a speedwing. Azura craves babying and delicate operations. Camilla, you can afford to be kinda stupid with her and she'll still be valuable.


And about Elise; if you need to use her to heal someone who's been hit (since let's face it, until Ch12, most of your team is 2HKO'd anyway), then she gets EXP for healing. What about the times where you strategically chip->then->kill the few enemies that you're encountering, like the squad-based enemies in the Rainbow Tower, or the groups of 3 in the Ice Village? If you are playing safely and briskly, you can take on a lot of battling without needing to even heal up, with careful point plugging and such. Sure, it's nice to have Elise heal you up, along with Felicia/Jakob if you've got them, but

So Elise rocks if you pay attention to what you're doing, because any mistake will not be forgiven.

Elise rocks if you're not paying attention to what you're doing, because she can help you pick up the slack from you mistakes. Her healing can be replaced by Vulneraries or by Felicia/Jakob. Early on, a lot of your combat can't be replaced by one unit or another. You can shuffle options around but when you need to land 4 hits, there's only so many ways to do it with 3 units. If I can get through Chapters 9 and 11 without using Elise at all, and not by turtling, others can too.

If you're playing in a way that doesn't heavily involve healing after being punished for pushing risks, then Elise doesn't rock, because she's not doing anything. If your nearby enemies are dead, she isn't a combatant who can place herself intelligently to attack the next group of enemies, or prepare for a counter-attack. In these situations, she does nothing. In chapter 10, you could have her go for turns without doing anything because with all the splitting up that you have to do, she can just pick a side and let the others handle themselves, which means that if you split your group into three squads, two can handle themselves without Elise's help. This diminishes her value, because if 2/3 groups can handle themselves without Elise's support, then in theory, all 3 could.

She is very very helpful but not absolutely necessary for a large majority of the game. Niles fills a niche that no one else can early, and lategame, you don't want to dedicate resources towards. Kaze can achieve the same sort of thing with reference to combat; he'll debilitate or when he promotes he can handle traps and stuff, and always has 2 range combat to work with attackstance and therefore helps your team by providing opportunities to render Elise's healing completely unecessary, reducing her EXP gain and prolonging her time as a Troubadour. Elise can't do the same to units like Niles and Kaze. She can heal so fighters don't have to heal themselves, in a game where you can cover for your team in a pinch with other units to take a blow.

Edited by Elieson
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While I don't have any strong feelings about Elise either way, there's more to staffbots than healing. I've found plenty of uses for the likes of Freeze.

Edited by eggclipse
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^Erm, just what were you trying to say in the last sentence of the first point you made?

Not sure what you mean here.

I'm trying to convey my concerns of "Elise should move up, but not by a lot".

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I'd agree with that were it not for Charlotte and Arthur.

Arthur I'm fine with, but Charlotte? Yeah, I forgot about her. She's so forgettable.

This was after an immediate Heart Seal. She can't take hits early-on, which means that she's somewhat of a liability on Chapter 10 (even if dual ballistas are a huge help).

I suppose it can be a *bit* problematic early on, but I found her extra damage too good to pass up on, and Amaterasu if you're into Kinshi knights are very good for Conquest.

I'm trying to convey my concerns of "Elise should move up, but not by a lot".

So basically Felicia (Ch.2) up and Elise up but then Leo down? I don't know, I still find Leo better than Felicia. Felicia's attack in a lot of instances is negligible on harder modes to my knowledge. Elise and Felicia end up largely doing the same thing, and at least Elise has a skill that works for everyone -- and also somehow makes it harder for her to need to heal... Like how far are you wanting her to go up?

Also, can we count Niles' ability to get you totally expendable units in classic as a boon? I mean, come on, that has to count for something. He can even recruit the bosses from the Paralogue chapters and some of them are pretty good. Like... Debatable with your units levels of good in Lunatic.

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Not sure what you mean here.

I'm trying to convey my concerns of "Elise should move up, but not by a lot".

I meant this part:

Base 1~2-range 25 attack that Camilla doesn't even have) targetting Res is pretty good, with combination of 1~2 range 26 atk v Defense of a Hand Axe. It's a flexibility that most units lack and can't grow into. If you nee

I feel you were trying to say something at the end, but since it's incomplete, I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

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I've never played lunatic mode, but I still think you've put Benny and Ignatius way too low and don't give them enough credit. Benny may be slow as hell, but this can be compromised with Wary Fighter; his defense is insanely high and resistance pretty good too (something you can't say about most Nohrian units), so he always has something to offer defensively even as just a support/pair-up bot. Ignatius is typically stronger than Benny, possibly very strong, making him an Effie 2.0 and worth the tricky paralogue.

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I've never played lunatic mode, but I still think you've put Benny and Ignatius way too low and don't give them enough credit. Benny may be slow as hell, but this can be compromised with Wary Fighter; his defense is insanely high and resistance pretty good too (something you can't say about most Nohrian units), so he always has something to offer defensively even as just a support/pair-up bot. Ignatius is typically stronger than Benny, possibly very strong, making him an Effie 2.0 and worth the tricky paralogue.

I can't speak for Benny, but Ignatius's paralogue gets stupid if you wait too long. As in "Ignatius has a chance to die before you can save him" levels of stupid. Needless to say, that's no bueno.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia
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I feel you were trying to say something at the end, but since it's incomplete, I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

Oh;

"if you nee"d a unit that can provide versatile combat right from the get go, Camilla is your bae since she can target Res and Def interchangable and with the boatloads of Hoshidan ninjas and Holy Lancers/FalcoKnights that exist, she'll have WTA against them regardless of her choice of weapon.

So basically Felicia (Ch.2) up and Elise up but then Leo down? I don't know, I still find Leo better than Felicia. Felicia's attack in a lot of instances is negligible on harder modes to my knowledge. Elise and Felicia end up largely doing the same thing, and at least Elise has a skill that works for everyone -- and also somehow makes it harder for her to need to heal... Like how far are you wanting her to go up?

Also, can we count Niles' ability to get you totally expendable units in classic as a boon? I mean, come on, that has to count for something. He can even recruit the bosses from the Paralogue chapters and some of them are pretty good. Like... Debatable with your units levels of good in Lunatic.

Leo goes where Elise is now. Elise bumps up to the bottom of the next tier. Felicia can pretty much stay where she is in that scenario.

Felicia can Debuff if she isn't healing, which Elise can't do early, and in lategame, Felicia can just be your dedicated Staffer or Debuffer.

Also Niles is high for reasons, I'm sure that's part of it.

Edited by Elieson
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I can't speak for Benny, but Ignatius's paralogue gets stupid if you wait too long. As in "Ignatius has a chance to die before you can save him" levels of stupid. Needless to say, that's no bueno.

Good lord, you can't even save him without spamming like 2 rescue staff uses if you wait until chapter 27.

Edited by Augestein
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Also, can we count Niles' ability to get you totally expendable units in classic as a boon? I mean, come on, that has to count for something. He can even recruit the bosses from the Paralogue chapters and some of them are pretty good. Like... Debatable with your units levels of good in Lunatic.

I asked about this earlier, and PKL said that he won't count it.

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Maybe he'll come back and clarify on whether we're allowed to feed our starving army!

As far as I know from him, this list doesn't include cooking or DLC at all.

Lunatic No Grind, iirc.

Edited by Jedi
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I can't speak for Benny, but Ignatius's paralogue gets stupid if you wait too long. As in "Ignatius has a chance to die before you can save him" levels of stupid. Needless to say, that's no bueno.

This is true but we have no reason to wait that long to get Ignatius. Even on no-grind you should be able to get Benny's S support done by chapter 21-22 or so at which point getting Ignatius is still very doable, especially if he has Wary Fighter.

I found Ignatius decent enough when I bothered to get him but I'm not sure about kid tiering in general.

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But Malig Knight is definitely not her best class... I mean Strategists have high Mag, Spd, Lck and Res, that describes Elise perfectly, unlike Malig Knight that are too bulky, slow and have low Lck

You forgot to mention Elise being the earliest flier available, and her bases/growths for Magic and Speed being ridiculously high no matter what class she's in. Having Elise in Draco makes for an extremely easy clear of 10, allowing her to do things like visit the southeast village T1, kill Oboro on enemy phase that same turn, and help pick off the Pegasus squad to the right so that Camilla can handle the horde on the left.

Also, that stuff about Staff rank being coveted is not true. High-rank staff users easily capturable earlygame and are always convinced on the first try. Free recruits with C and B-rank are thrown at you from 16 on. In fact, with healing mooks always being free, there's really no reason to leave units who are better at fighting in their heal class.

Edited by Inference
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Also, that stuff about Staff rank being coveted is not true. High-rank staff users easily capturable earlygame and are always convinced on the first try. Free recruits with C and B-rank are thrown at you from 16 on. In fact, with healing mooks always being free, there's really no reason to leave units who are better at fighting in their heal class.

Generics aren't being counted.

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You forgot to mention Elise being the earliest flier available, and her bases/growths for Magic and Speed being ridiculously high no matter what class she's in. Having Elise in Draco makes for an extremely easy clear of 10, allowing her to do things like visit the southeast village T1, kill Oboro on enemy phase that same turn, and help pick off the Pegasus squad to the right so that Camilla can handle the horde on the left.

Elise ?! She has 2 Strength and 4 Defense as a level 5 Troubadour. Considering you reached level 10 to reclass at time, she won't get more than 1 or 2 points in theses stats (not even sure). Then you reclass to Wyvern Rider , getting, +6 Strength, +6 Def, that makes something like 11 Def and 9 Str. Here are Oboro's stats :

md5DDd6.jpg

With a Bronze Axe, she does 15 damage, less 14, + 0 for Weapon Triangle Advantage (E rank), that makes a pitiful 1 Damage, maybe x2 (not even sure considering Wyvern Rider's speed). She'll take 15+4+6-11 = 13 damage. She survives the hit,but that's all, she's gonna wrecked on the next turn because of Seal Strength and Def. And this Heart Seal should not be wasted like that when it's in a limited number until Capter 20 or something. I mean, she'd be much better as a Dark Falcon at this point (but that +10% Str growth in Str would be useless). Malig Knight may possibly work as her final class, but not for leveling. All these growth rates would be wasted (believe me, +10% growth in Def won't make her more bulky, nor the +15% in Strength) whereas she makes an infinitely better use of Troubadour/Strategist's growths (and caps later). And I'm not even sure you already met a Monk at this point, Chapter 7 is full of Faceless, Chapter 8 may have a Troubadour, I don't remember but I don't think so, and Chapter 9 has archers, spear fighters and Samurais. I prefer to recruit an archer to take down Pegs and use a second ballista in the next chapter anyway.

Base 1~2-range 25 attack that Camilla doesn't even have) targetting Res is pretty good, with combination of 1~2 range 26 atk v Defense of a Hand Axe. It's a flexibility that most units lack and can't grow into. If you nee

3 more Defense doesn't save you from the damage you take by getting doubled by potential Attack-stance enemies. Allllllllllll that work to get Beruka up to speed, could partially be shifted to Camilla, by giving her a couple of kills here-or-there, and a Bosskill (which until Xander appears, don't really need to be desperately given to any particular unit), to let her definitely good growths keep her going. I haven't even mentioned her way more useful PRF skill either, which supports allies in tremendous ways by letting her attack stance partners or others deal a sizeable increase in damage, as well as innate Trample that most units in all of Conquest won't get in any practical playthrough other than Percy and maybe Gunter?

She'll be a valuable asset in combat for much more time than Beruka, and she doesn't require special help to keep going. Others need a butt-ton of exp to catch up to Camilla, and by then, Camilla is still ahead in some areas and still valuable in others. There isn't a time that Camilla should be benched, from the moment you get her. Xander craves a speedwing. Azura craves babying and delicate operations. Camilla, you can afford to be kinda stupid with her and she'll still be valuable.

And about Elise; if you need to use her to heal someone who's been hit (since let's face it, until Ch12, most of your team is 2HKO'd anyway), then she gets EXP for healing. What about the times where you strategically chip->then->kill the few enemies that you're encountering, like the squad-based enemies in the Rainbow Tower, or the groups of 3 in the Ice Village? If you are playing safely and briskly, you can take on a lot of battling without needing to even heal up, with careful point plugging and such. Sure, it's nice to have Elise heal you up, along with Felicia/Jakob if you've got them, but

Elise rocks if you're not paying attention to what you're doing, because she can help you pick up the slack from you mistakes. Her healing can be replaced by Vulneraries or by Felicia/Jakob. Early on, a lot of your combat can't be replaced by one unit or another. You can shuffle options around but when you need to land 4 hits, there's only so many ways to do it with 3 units. If I can get through Chapters 9 and 11 without using Elise at all, and not by turtling, others can too.

If you're playing in a way that doesn't heavily involve healing after being punished for pushing risks, then Elise doesn't rock, because she's not doing anything. If your nearby enemies are dead, she isn't a combatant who can place herself intelligently to attack the next group of enemies, or prepare for a counter-attack. In these situations, she does nothing. In chapter 10, you could have her go for turns without doing anything because with all the splitting up that you have to do, she can just pick a side and let the others handle themselves, which means that if you split your group into three squads, two can handle themselves without Elise's help. This diminishes her value, because if 2/3 groups can handle themselves without Elise's support, then in theory, all 3 could.

She is very very helpful but not absolutely necessary for a large majority of the game. Niles fills a niche that no one else can early, and lategame, you don't want to dedicate resources towards. Kaze can achieve the same sort of thing with reference to combat; he'll debilitate or when he promotes he can handle traps and stuff, and always has 2 range combat to work with attackstance and therefore helps your team by providing opportunities to render Elise's healing completely unecessary, reducing her EXP gain and prolonging her time as a Troubadour. Elise can't do the same to units like Niles and Kaze. She can heal so fighters don't have to heal themselves, in a game where you can cover for your team in a pinch with other units to take a blow.

I prefer to give bosskills to my less leveled unit, that's basically a free full level, but anyway. The problem is she gets 1 point of EXP by killing a standard enemy when she joins, against 20-30 for the rest of your team, so she's caught quickly. She has good Bases and growths when she joins, but using her at this time sort of penalize the rest of your team, and then when you can start really using her, she's caught by your other guys and will later hit the same level cap that reduces the benefits of her growths, even if she's an internal lvl 15/1. You're going to spend too much bosskills on her to get one or two levels for her, whereas you could make a better use of it. She's useful as an attack stance partner I won't deny it, with +3 damage to the guy and a strong hit behind. But relying heavily on her is sort of the easy way IMO. Beruka has a completely different role, that was a bad example from me, but she's good in it too. Camilla's supposed to kick off in Res, Str and Spd but her Res never really takes off because of its base value (the growth is good, but there are plenty of units whose Res will exceed hers with a lower level, like Kaze that joins in the next chapter and has Weapon triangle advantage but cannot fly), and her Speed doesn't really shine and hit the Malig Knight's cap quickly and she probably gets doubled Endgame too with 28 Speed at level 15 if you don't use Silver and Gold Statues (by Ninjas, Ryoma, etc.) and her Def is limited. That's the problem IMO, by using her immediately she's amazing but penalizes your team (even if she's a formidable tool for difficult situations), and after that she's quite average, but still has her utility against slow enemies like General (with Hammers or Bolt Axe, even if a Mage with Calamity gate would be better), Stoneborns (especially on the Eternal Stairway, but possess Wary Fighter...), etc. I don't mean she's bad, she's a very good unit nonetheless, she's never a burden (unlike certain units) but I won't put her in her own tier above everybody as you do. She's not irreplaceable either, I had no difficulty beating CQ Hard on my first run in Fates without using her. On Lunatic, that may be a bit more difficult, but still possible IMO.

Elise. What I meant by paying attention was referring to herself, not the rest of my team, once she can fight and before. And even when she cannot fight, there's the art of Elise that consist of keeping her as close to the front line without putting her in danger, and she's great in this role because you can make very interesting strategies with that by using the map and everything you can to profit from her personal and be well-placed for the next turn, like in Chapter 10, she can have access to almost all your groups if you put her in the area around the southeast village, the last one being on the north east side of the map, but they can kill without taking damage thanks to the ballista. You also forget that she can use Freeze, Enfeeble, etc staves that give her more EXP. And early on, you can't just take any damage, most of your team get 2HKO'd through the game. The RNG isn't reliable (look, Selena is fast af and she cannot often avoid being hit by Axe fighters), even tanks take some damage (Effie's Def isn't perfect, she often takes around 6 damage), so early game you need to heal quite often. Even with this strategy that is extremely strong (that's how I played too), you still take damage, because, early, you have a smaller cast (using a Javelin or Hand Axe doesn't kill in one blow (except Effie), it just allows the guy behind to OHKO the enemy without being hit), so you can't split your team to much for that, you don't access to skills like Armored Blow, Duelist's Blow, Breakers skills that trivialize the game, so even if you take care, there's always someone you'll need to heal on the end of the turn at this point (there are also Salvage blow/poison strike Faceless). And after that, when you go further in the game and get access to all this stuff, Elise promoted and drastically changes her role (what a coincidence). Not to mention Elise is deadly in this strategy, that's this cycle I implied by "used correctly" or "paying attention", because in this cycle, you don't need everyone to be bulky, just having tanks and "delicate" units that are very strong because you're supposed to pay attention. And Vulneraries are expensive, don't heal as effectively as staves, and prevent your fighting unit to... fight for one turn. So yes, she's isn't irreplaceable, nobody really is once you past the first chapters (even Niles is cumfortable), but she's a very strong unit nonetheless. So I wouldn't put her in the mid-tier alongside Shura.

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I prefer to give bosskills to my less leveled unit, that's basically a free full level, but anyway. The problem is she gets 1 point of EXP by killing a standard enemy when she joins, against 20-30 for the rest of your team, so she's caught quickly. She has good Bases and growths when she joins, but using her at this time sort of penalize the rest of your team, and then when you can start really using her, she's caught by your other guys and will later hit the same level cap that reduces the benefits of her growths, even if she's an internal lvl 15/1. You're going to spend too much bosskills on her to get one or two levels for her, whereas you could make a better use of it. She's useful as an attack stance partner I won't deny it, with +3 damage to the guy and a strong hit behind. But relying heavily on her is sort of the easy way IMO. Beruka has a completely different role, that was a bad example from me, but she's good in it too. Camilla's supposed to kick off in Res, Str and Spd but her Res never really takes off because of its base value (the growth is good, but there are plenty of units whose Res will exceed hers with a lower level, like Kaze that joins in the next chapter and has Weapon triangle advantage but cannot fly), and her Speed doesn't really shine and hit the Malig Knight's cap quickly and she probably gets doubled Endgame too with 28 Speed at level 15 if you don't use Silver and Gold Statues (by Ninjas, Ryoma, etc.) and her Def is limited. That's the problem IMO, by using her immediately she's amazing but penalizes your team (even if she's a formidable tool for difficult situations), and after that she's quite average, but still has her utility against slow enemies like General (with Hammers or Bolt Axe, even if a Mage with Calamity gate would be better), Stoneborns (especially on the Eternal Stairway, but possess Wary Fighter...), etc. I don't mean she's bad, she's a very good unit nonetheless, she's never a burden (unlike certain units) but I won't put her in her own tier above everybody as you do. She's not irreplaceable either, I had no difficulty beating CQ Hard on my first run in Fates without using her. On Lunatic, that may be a bit more difficult, but still possible IMO.

There is literally no one who can replicate the amount of work Camilla puts in, the fact that we've had to not allow her to be used until chapter 16 in drafts, should be a clear enough sign of just how much of a game changer she literally is by herself. That's even without giving her potential reliable boss kills, and she's still a good pick despite that, and yeah CQ Hard can be done without her, but if you're going for efficiency, you'll be using her. I know PKL, and he bases his tiers off efficiency, LTC and the like. She pretty much annihilates everything for quite a bit of time and then she just keeps steamrolling the game. That and after the first few chapters she starts gaining exp like crazy anyways, due to how its scaled

It's like Marcus in FE7, sure people can possibly catch up to him over time, but he's done so much that his contributions outshine any of them by the time they can actually put their power to the test.

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