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Tharja: How Awakening Made a Good, Bad Character. [Fire Emblem: Support Science #14]

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Hector's incompetence at the start of FE6 and less than godly stats as a Trial character (though 30 Def is good) is owing to FE7 not being as much as passing thought at the time FE6 was made. Though Astolfo indicates they had a notion of an Ostian spy network already in mind- even if it was an afterthought (which FE7 expanded on rather nicely).

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I suppose "incompetence" was a bit too harsh from me. The only faults we pointed out were his quick defeat to Bern (with no backup measures in place), and the fact that Lycia fell apart after his death. So, it's not "incompetence" as much as it is "not enough foresight".

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On ‎19‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 1:01 AM, Hylian Air Force said:

When 25 was over the hill and many didn't live past 40 due to primitive healthcare.

That's not actually true though. If you managed to reach the age of 30 in medieval times, there was a good chance that you would live to be 60.

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1 hour ago, NinjaMonkey said:

That's not actually true though. If you managed to reach the age of 30 in medieval times, there was a good chance that you would live to be 60.

Yeah, isn't the whole 30-was-old thing factoring in a high infant and childhood mortality rate? If you looked at the average life expectancy leaving out children, it would have been higher, not modern, but higher.

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Re: lifespans and quality of life conversation,

I wonder if healing staves can cure disease or if they only work on closing wounds. People do die of illness, even high lords like Uther, so we can infer that magical healing isn't perfect. Maybe healing staves are like Phoenix Downs and don't exist (or aren't nearly as effective) outside of gameplay.

Edited by NekoKnight

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On 5/20/2017 at 10:42 AM, Interdimensional Observer said:

Hector's incompetence at the start of FE6 and less than godly stats as a Trial character (though 30 Def is good) is owing to FE7 not being as much as passing thought at the time FE6 was made. Though Astolfo indicates they had a notion of an Ostian spy network already in mind- even if it was an afterthought (which FE7 expanded on rather nicely).

...this right here is why an FE6 remake, if done correctly, would be so phenomenal.

It presents the opportunity for I.S. to reimagine FE6 as a true sequel to FE7, as opposed to FE7 strictly existing as a a prequel to FE6. And to build upon the story in such a way that it connects back to characters and events never  contemplated at the time FE6 was made; giving us for example deeper references to what the old FE7 gang is doing 20 years later, and what they've been doing in the span between FE7 and FE6.

That would be so perfect.

And, conversely, such a huge missed-opportunity if they remade FE6 WITHOUT taking the story in that direction.    
 

Edited by Shoblongoo

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Hey guys! I'm back with another SUpport Science!

It was fun working on this one. I would really appreciate it if you guys would share this if you can!

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On 7/1/2017 at 11:42 AM, ghast said:

Hey guys! I'm back with another SUpport Science!

It was fun working on this one. I would really appreciate it if you guys would share this if you can!

If all FE 7 characters are like this, I might just play it before FE8.

This was probably the best video I've seen this week.

Edited by ThatOneWeakArcher

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On 7/1/2017 at 0:42 PM, ghast said:

Hey guys! I'm back with another SUpport Science!

It was fun working on this one. I would really appreciate it if you guys would share this if you can!

this video was good, so i can forgive the dumb meme in the thumbnail

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Nino's great. 

I've always been one of those guys who uses her way more than her join time and starting level can justify, purely because I enjoy her as a character. 

One of the things that always bothered me the most about FE7 was that you couldn't recruit Linus or Lloyd by speaking to them with Nino on Cog of Destiny--she just aggro's them. (sad)

And one of those fun little "What If?" scenarios I always like to play out in my head-canon is how their relationship would have played out if Nino had actually convinced one of the Brothers to change sides.

Or even wonkier; what if Linus and Lloyd had turned against Sonia on their own, and they had all defected together + fought under Eliwood's banner as a family undivided?

...that would be nice...


 

Edited by Shoblongoo

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No lie, I was shocked to find out that Nino was a girl when I first played FE7. In her artwork in the Awakening DLC, where I first saw her, she looks like a young boy and in Germany, her name is usually a first name for males (I actually know a guy called Nino), so imagine my (and his) shock at finding out the green-haired shota is actually a green haired loli.
But yeah, as your video shows, Nino is awesome. Thanks for always putting so much effort into these, Ghast!

Edited by DragonFlames

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This video was pretty cool and detailled as usual. Thanks !

I really like Nino as a character; FE7's character are all pretty cool, but I think NIno rank pretty high in the top..

Edited by B.Leu

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On ‎1‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 5:10 PM, NekoKnight said:

If one is to like Pieri and think she's a good person at heart, you're going to have to accept that she's an unrepentant serial killer, past and present. Mind you, I don't think liking morally perverse characters means you approve of such things in real life, but within the context of the story, Pieri is a villain, who, like many Fates characters, has her villainy ignored.

Yo Ghast, hook me up with those character analysis', I'll peer review your stuff.

You think that Peri and many of the other playable characters of Fates are villains? Flawed? Yes. Do morally questionable things? Yes. Villains? No. Characters like Elric of Melnibone are goddamn villains. Elric has slaughtered untold hundreds of innocent people with his hellsword, Stormbringer, to please his patron god, Arioch, Lord of the Higher Hell and to keep himself alive. And the funny thing is that Elric is the protagonist of his own saga and saves the day in the multiple times over the course of his adventures.

P.S. Stormbringer doesn't just kill people but also devours the souls of its victims.  

 b65ff67576e998d12471dae775476992.jpg

 
Edited by Wraith

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5 hours ago, Wraith said:

You think that Peri and many of the other playable characters of Fates are villains? Flawed? Yes. Do morally questionable things? Yes. Villains? No.

You don't need to be evil incarnate to be considered a villain. A number of characters in Fates (Xander and Nohrrin, are among the worst) have flaws that heavily outweigh any good they do, and people who think otherwise are being fooled by the narrative downplaying or straight up ignoring their villainous actions.

You don't get to work for a guy like Garon and still be a hero.

 

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6 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

You don't need to be evil incarnate to be considered a villain. A number of characters in Fates (Xander and Nohrrin, are among the worst) have flaws that heavily outweigh any good they do, and people who think otherwise are being fooled by the narrative downplaying or straight up ignoring their villainous actions.

You don't get to work for a guy like Garon and still be a hero.

 

The problem is during the narrative of Fates characters such as Xander and the playable Nohrrins aren’t the ones reveling in the slaughter of innocents like Hans, Iago, or Garon. However, I will concede that the problem with Xander and the others is that they capitulated and allowed the actions of evil characters to happen when rank is pulled on them. While this puts these characters under an unflattering light and makes me question them for there actions, I still think the word villain is too strong a descriptor for them. Caitiffs will suffice more for the playable Nohrrin’s nomenclature then calling them villains.

Even when Xander and the others capitulate to allow these evil actions to happen they never condone them and earlier in the game there are instances when the Nohrrin royals subvert Garon’s intentions. The problem for the Norrhin royals is that the consequences of a war are some much larger then what they’re use to in terms of subverting Garon’s will that it becomes nigh impossible for them to do so. I feel that if Xander and the others had an the options of subverting Garon’s will during the war without the threat of getting slaughtered themselves, they would have tried. Again caitiffs but not villains. Also Elric is not evil incarnate, that would be the Lords of the Higher Worlds.

Edited by Wraith

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14 hours ago, Wraith said:

The problem is during the narrative of Fates characters such as Xander and the playable Nohrrins aren’t the ones reveling in the slaughter of innocents like Hans, Iago, or Garon.

Except that is who Peri is. She is a gleeful murderer who has killed, and in the present expresses the desire to kill people who are innocent. She's the retainer of the crown prince, the same guy who denounced Hans of being a murderer.

There is also the matter of the war itself. Hoshido is painted as an innocent nation and the Nohrians (all of them, right down to the Awakening trio and the 'hero of justice' Arthur) are a-okay with taking part in a war of aggression. There is a throw away line in Birthright about their food shortages, but for the most part, they seem to be invading just because they can. They can object to massacring prisoners all they like, they are willing participants in everything else. 

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So I heard that your next support science video will be about Tharja. I find that to be interesting, especially as a Tharja fan, I'm curious in what direction the video is going to be taken in. An analysis of why she is so popular with Fans? A video explaining the mindset of her, similar to your Cordelia video? A compare and contrast of her deception of her appearance in Awakening to spin-off material?  Or probably most difficult of all, her relationship with Noire. For the last I would recommend doing into the future past dlc for more interactions between the two for video. Either way I'm interested in what you have in store.

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I appreciate the videos that Ghast has made, because it lets me know that there is depth to the characters of Fire Emblem, despite the many people around me that constantly say how so many characters are just base tropes time and anime time and time again. Of course, those are the same people who don't actually care enough to look at the supports of these characters. Point is, thank you Ghast for actually making an in-depth look on characters and their supports.

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So I seen the video, and I got I say that I'm impressed by the research to you have done in the video. From pulling up info for the JP version of Awakening's website, to going into the DLC supports, to paint a picture of her mindset. I felt that you could have mentioned Noire's support with Tharja and her fathers. Because unlike the supports in the base game, it has unique supports that varies on who the father is. It just that in Fire Emblem, most goody two-shoes don't interest me. On the last note to end the video, hey I like Peri and Camilla! Just that I like Tharja more.

Edited by Jingle Jangle

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The main reason I've always liked Tharja is because she's an ally despite being an obviously bad person. It's pretty rare in any kind of fiction. Good analysis, ghast.

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Tharja is a fanservice character done correctly. Her sex appeal makes sense relative to her character. (its almost as if its an open invitation to say: try something. I dare you. I will curse you until you vomit locusts.)

Its not the only thing she has going on with her character and it isn't blatantly thrown in your face as a central story element (see Camilla). Its just there in the background.

And at the end of the day you remember her for being a creepy stalker and a terrible mother who, despite all her very noticeable moral shortcomings, actually shows sympathy and awareness of right-and-wrong and does the right thing from time-to-time. And therefore achieves some measure of depth as a character. Not just a pair of tits constantly being thrown in your face (again--see camilla), or a one-note psycho with no depth or relatability or redeeming character traits (see Peri).

Edited by Shoblongoo

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