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Luck.....my least favorite thing in RPG's

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Now I will say there have been plenty of times that luck has saved my skin or two when things get serious, but it's still sad to rely on it.

Other than that it's the one thing I'll never love in games or in life. Persona is a series I've played through the years and there's never a

skill stat..... just a luck stat. This never made sense to me as luck is something that shouldn't and probably will never trigger like any

other stat. To me it feels so cheap since you can never plan for it or use it consistently to your advantage. This isn't a post saying what

could replace it since I don't have an answer for that. I'm just complaining a little bit.

I would like to know what stat in RPG's that you don't like so let me know!

Like they say " the best ability is availability"....... and luck isn't one of those things

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I'll certainly agree that luck can be rather superfluous at times unless it affects near every calculation (which it does in some of the Wild Arms entries, though instead of growing it is randomized at specific clock or input-based intervals).

My least favorite stat is Speed. I think it has too much sway in dictating whom has the upperhand or who contributes the most in many RPG battles. So, I like games where it has little impact (if any) to battles. I don't mind it determining priority if combatants are generally all allowed to act before the next "turn" occurs; Golden Sun or even the Persona games do this well, among others. If someone is being lapped in the turn queue, then either they should be much more stronger to justify the limited turnaround rate. Or the faster characters should be somewhat limited at least in one key aspect that they appreciate the slower man/woman's contribution. Or perhaps, have the slow characters be especially talented at making their faster comrades even deadlier with potent support skills or something, to encourage waiting on them to make some battles that would be unwinnable otherwise, a breeze.

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I'll certainly agree that luck can be rather superfluous at times unless it affects near every calculation (which it does in some of the Wild Arms entries, though instead of growing it is randomized at specific clock or input-based intervals).

My least favorite stat is Speed. I think it has too much sway in dictating whom has the upperhand or who contributes the most in many RPG battles. So, I like games where it has little impact (if any) to battles. I don't mind it determining priority if combatants are generally all allowed to act before the next "turn" occurs; Golden Sun or even the Persona games do this well, among others. If someone is being lapped in the turn queue, then either they should be much more stronger to justify the limited turnaround rate. Or the faster characters should be somewhat limited at least in one key aspect that they appreciate the slower man/woman's contribution. Or perhaps, have the slow characters be especially talented at making their faster comrades even deadlier with potent support skills or something, to encourage waiting on them to make some battles that would be unwinnable otherwise, a breeze.

I like your idea for changing speed. While it's my second favorite stat it can be hard to combat it in certain games especially if all of your available people / units

are slow to keep up. That's where I think skills can play a huge part since it can be limited to certain people. Maybe more games wont have speed as a huge

factor but it would be hard to change it.

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I kinda feel like making any game reliant on luck to too great a degree just starts to fall into bad game design.

Ideally, all (or at least the vast, vast majority) of the player's failures in a game should be due to their own mistakes, not due to the RNG just deciding "oops you failed sucks to be you". A similar principle should apply to the player's successes, as well.

Having some element of luck in games is fine, I think, but it is important to make sure that the player's own skill level is the primary determinant of success or failure, by a large margin.

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I kinda feel like making any game reliant on luck to too great a degree just starts to fall into bad game design.

Ideally, all (or at least the vast, vast majority) of the player's failures in a game should be due to their own mistakes, not due to the RNG just deciding "oops you failed sucks to be you". A similar principle should apply to the player's successes, as well.

Having some element of luck in games is fine, I think, but it is important to make sure that the player's own skill level is the primary determinant of success or failure, by a large margin.

Yeah I can't agree more.... It's just when luck is defined as a stat I feel it's apart of life / the game yet it's sad on how it's apart of RPG's.... Honestly luck is something I'll never come to terms with...

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Luck as a game concept is very different from luck as a stat. I agree that games shouldn't be too luck-dependent. Fire Emblem is in a good spot generally, for me. Games where most of the challenge is determined by whether you are ambushed or not, not so much.

Luck as a stat is indeed kinda weird stylistically. For Fire Emblem, I do like having a stat that governs critical resistance, though honestly you could have skill do that and not miss a beat (skill needs the help). For other games, the luck stat varies in its effect, and annoyingly is often barely documented for what it does and doesn't do. I agree that these sorts of luck stats feel weird/pointless (for instance, Suikoden's).

My least favorite stat is Speed. I think it has too much sway in dictating whom has the upperhand or who contributes the most in many RPG battles. So, I like games where it has little impact (if any) to battles. I don't mind it determining priority if combatants are generally all allowed to act before the next "turn" occurs; Golden Sun or even the Persona games do this well, among others. If someone is being lapped in the turn queue, then either they should be much more stronger to justify the limited turnaround rate. Or the faster characters should be somewhat limited at least in one key aspect that they appreciate the slower man/woman's contribution. Or perhaps, have the slow characters be especially talented at making their faster comrades even deadlier with potent support skills or something, to encourage waiting on them to make some battles that would be unwinnable otherwise, a breeze.

I think speed is conceptually fine but you're right that RPG designers frequently underestimate how important it is. However, there are certainly some games out there that do what you expect: the slow PCs are generally some of the most effective in Wild Arms games, for instance (well, aside from XF). I think lapping is fine and dandy (and has the potential to be much more interesting than "everyone has to get an equal number of turns" systems, especially with haste/slow effects), but absolutely has to be balanced around.

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Interesting topic? Yes. But it's better suited for General Gaming.

Luck, when implemented correctly (FIRE EMBLEM), should be something with a clear purpose. When implemented badly (Tales series), I have no idea what it does.

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Hardwest handles luck perfectly. You use it to archive miracles stuff but you dont recover it until the fight is over or when you have been hit hard enough (think of it as "the amount of unluckiness that you have gathered"), once you've used all of your luck then everything is a fair game.

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Luck, when implemented correctly (FIRE EMBLEM), should be something with a clear purpose. When implemented badly (Tales series), I have no idea what it does.

Speaking of the Tales series and stats that leave me scratching my head as to what the heck they do, there's accuracy and evasion in some games.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia

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Real world definition of luck: "Success in the face of unfavorable odds."

Game definition of luck: "The ability (?) to make odds more favorable."

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In the context of Fire Emblem:

I don't like how Speed can make or break characters; a lack of speed is the reason why I don't like using Knight/General's not named Effie. In Awakening, Kellam was always forever alone (I used him once and regretted it) and I think Orochi is the hardest to train in Fates: Revelation because of her bad speed and she's my go to forever alone in that game because training her up isn't worth it to me.

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Luck .... When implemented badly (Tales series), I have no idea what it does.

Just felt like actually answering this statement since many years ago I read multiple sources concerning the games' battle formulas. (particularly, Symphonia and the Destiney PS2 remake). From memory, the stat affects the base chance of learning an arte/tech in-battle if it was not automatically unlocked on leveled up (primarily in Symphonia, Abyss and any title where using a prior arte multiple times was required before unlocking a higher arte or combination arte). With high luck, the new arte would usually be added on the first weapon swing or spell completion from the character. It also slightly affected the added effects of artes procuring (such as the success rate of Item Thief/Rover or the random chance of getting a Toss Hammer which inflicts poison 100% if hit and not immune) or resisting a status ailment. Luck randomized itself every time one rested at an inn or on level up, to my knowledge. Much of the Titles post-Abyss have circumvented Luck by adding more effects to artes to be acquired upon repeated usage and artes with random elements (like most of Patty Fleur's) can only be influenced by the presence of skills or character-specific mechanics. Oh, and it did have a slight influence on the odds of scoring a critical hit, but elemental weaknesses typically did the job of pumping out higher numbers more efficiently that the Luck stat generally could be ignored most of the time, hence what I presume prompted the full removal of the stat in the games' menus and system.

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Just felt like actually answering this statement since many years ago I read multiple sources concerning the games' battle formulas. (particularly, Symphonia and the Destiney PS2 remake). From memory, the stat affects the base chance of learning an arte/tech in-battle if it was not automatically unlocked on leveled up (primarily in Symphonia, Abyss and any title where using a prior arte multiple times was required before unlocking a higher arte or combination arte). With high luck, the new arte would usually be added on the first weapon swing or spell completion from the character. It also slightly affected the added effects of artes procuring (such as the success rate of Item Thief/Rover or the random chance of getting a Toss Hammer which inflicts poison 100% if hit and not immune) or resisting a status ailment. Luck randomized itself every time one rested at an inn or on level up, to my knowledge. Much of the Titles post-Abyss have circumvented Luck by adding more effects to artes to be acquired upon repeated usage and artes with random elements (like most of Patty Fleur's) can only be influenced by the presence of skills or character-specific mechanics. Oh, and it did have a slight influence on the odds of scoring a critical hit, but elemental weaknesses typically did the job of pumping out higher numbers more efficiently that the Luck stat generally could be ignored most of the time, hence what I presume prompted the full removal of the stat in the games' menus and system.

So more RNG on top of RNG (namely, the ever-changing Luck stat), with effects that are still poorly explained. Just how much is the base chance of learning an arte increased? How much did it influence drop rate/artes added effects? Even with your explanation, it doesn't change the fact that the Tales implementation was horrible.

Compare it to Fire Emblem, where every point of Luck negates one percent of enemy crit chance (among other things). Though it's not fully explained in-game, Luck's effect can be seen, just like every other stat.

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Well, I do know that the arte learn-rate was seldom below 30% after all calculations which factored in a possible negative Luck (since the games' devil arms weapons could reduce luck, as did some normal equipment); and that was why sometimes you could finish a fight or two and still not have actually "learned" the attack you would have, even after meeting the usage requirement (and the T/S tree condition in Symphonia). I have found that the probability of getting a Toss Hammer when using Colette's Pow Hammer/Hammer Revenge EX to occur, however, never exceeds 1/12. That also applies to every hammer that appears in Pow Pow Hammer and/or Hammer Rain (Para Ball doesn't use the hammer animation). Any who, I agree that Luck not having an easily predicted effect, as a stat, makes it rather dumb, so its removal is a benefit in general.

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In the context of Fire Emblem:

I don't like how Speed can make or break characters; a lack of speed is the reason why I don't like using Knight/General's not named Effie. In Awakening, Kellam was always forever alone (I used him once and regretted it) and I think Orochi is the hardest to train in Fates: Revelation because of her bad speed and she's my go to forever alone in that game because training her up isn't worth it to me.

FE isn't even the worst contender.

Phantom Brave is the one where Luck is the most broken things. You can act 3-4 time (or maybe even more before the ennemies move, and then you have 2-3 turns to act in between....

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