Dream Smashers - Micaiah.

[Anacybele]

Augustein: Okay, sorry, YOU didn't give Roy a free pass, my bad. But it seems like others did.

And again, you missed my point entirely. Ike is number 1 on the heavy manly/beefy swordsman list. And he existed before Chrom, which is why he got in and Chrom didn't. Bottom line. Ike represents Tellius better than Micaiah does since he's a main character in both games which is the biggest (not only, just biggest) reason for having him over her. Ike may not appear in RD right away, but he still has a prominent role. And he's not going anywhere now due to having developed iconic-ness through Smash and later FE DLC. I bet it'll only be a matter of time before his games become more available again and they also gain more love and attention.

I do think Micaiah would've been interesting to play as, don't get me wrong. And I don't even like her at all. I felt she was a horribly written character with so much wasted potential. But she was simply overshadowed by Ike in the end. Though I do wish IS would stop overshadowing female lords... And actually create one that's good. I have yet to like one (not counting Celica since I didn't play her game).

Edited December 27, 2016 by Anacybele

[solrocknroll]

I give Roy a free pass because I like his design, which should be plenty of reason to like a character.

I didn't say that FE shouldn't have just Sword users, but make sure that they're relevant to the series instead of picking no-names. Tsubasa is a great example of a relevant Lance user that could be fun and interesting.

A mounted character would be really, really awkward based on the gameplay style that Smash uses, and Wario is pretty much the only "mounted" idea that I think would work.

As a whole, I'm not really looking for any more Smash FE characters in the first place. I mainly just want Corrin, Robin, and Roy to stay, which could be a hard enough task on its own. I don't think that Smash has too many swords though, because I still would want Fiora, Shantae, or Elma and they use swords. I think that a weapon is just as unique as the idea that comes with it, and that the weapon itself matters less than how its used. Corrin is barely a sword user because they attempted to make him really stand out. Smash could use some more unconventional fighters anyway; Wii Fit Trainer and Villager are hopefully just the beginning.

[Comet]

jab, f tilt, up tilt, down air, and forward smash are entirely distinct. down smash, down tilt, nair, and counter are about the same thing, still with different stats. side b, back air, up air, and forward air look the same but their properties are drastically different. roy's up looks like marth's as much as ike's does. yes ike is definitely more overall distinct in overall move animations, but my point was to show that roy and marth are less similar than you portray them as. to speak of ike, he has counter and down smash. i actually maintain my opinion that roy and ike are equally, or near equally by an extremely small margin, since roy's mobility makes him feel completely different. he has faster vertical and horizontal air speed, which ike lacks.

[Tolvir]

I like the idea. Miciah would of been a good choice as an addition, but at this point she really doesn't stand a chance of getting in. If we get any new fire emblem characters, whether it be through a new smash game or the rerelease on the Switch, the more recent games are the more likely to get in. The only reason Roy got in was due to a nostalgia trip for melee players.

And on the subject of Ike vs Miciah, why not both? I don't see any reason why there needed to be one over the other. I am fine with Ike as he was the main lord of Tellius, and I would of liked to see Miciah because we don't have enough side characters represented in Smash. Lucina is the only one. I really hope we see some more variation in that regard, because there are a lot of good side characters that would make great Smash characters.

[vanguard333]

I agree with the person above; why not have both Ike and Micaiah? Had it been done in Brawl, there would have been 3 FE characters in Brawl, which I am sure no one would have claimed to be too many considering FE was worldwide, and would be the same as the number of Kirby characters in Brawl.

Of course, we can't go back in time and change this. But, since Lucina and Roy almost certainly will not be in Smash Bros. 5 (if another Smash Bros game is ever made) and the fates (pun intended) of Robin and Corrin are debatable, Micaiah could appear in a later Smash Bros game, especially if Nintendo makes a remake of Path of Radiance and/or Radiant Dawn.

[solrocknroll]

I agree with the person above; why not have both Ike and Micaiah? Had it been done in Brawl, there would have been 3 FE characters in Brawl, which I am sure no one would have claimed to be too many considering FE was worldwide, and would be the same as the number of Kirby characters in Brawl.

Of course, we can't go back in time and change this. But, since Lucina and Roy almost certainly will not be in Smash Bros. 5 (if another Smash Bros game is ever made) and the fates (pun intended) of Robin and Corrin are debatable, Micaiah could appear in a later Smash Bros game, especially if Nintendo makes a remake of Path of Radiance and/or Radiant Dawn.

We definitely don't need two Tellius characters. People already don't like having two Awakening characters (I think they're fine though), so why should we give extra attention to Tellius? If you wanted to include both a slow, bulky character and Micaiah, then why not Hector? I don't even like Hector, but he would be preferrable in this situation.

At the time, Fire Emblem was definitely not as big as Kirby. Even now, they're about equal, and Kirby could definitely stand to gain a fourth character. Animal Crossing and Kirby are the only series I feel are "underrepped," but I feel that Xenoblade is slowly making its way up.

I highly doubt that Robin, Corrin, or Roy will be cut. Mewtwo, Snake, and the Ice Climbers are the only fully unique characters that have ever been cut, and Mewtwo is back, Snake had rights issues, and Ice Climbers had gameplay issues.

Robin and Corrin are obvious, but for Roy, I highly doubt that any character cut and then brought back again will be cut. Thus, I assume that Dr. Mario, Roy, Lucas, and Mewtwo are all locks. Especially Lucas. I still can't believe he was actually cut.

[vanguard333]

I wasn't suggesting it was as popular as Kirby, I was merely pointing out that Fire Emblem rose in popularity due to being released worldwide, and one more character would not have been too many back in Brawl. Forgive me if it seemed like I was saying FE was as popular as Kirby.

(Before I continue, I would like to point out that anything in quotation marks is not my opinion, but opinions I have seen. It is not relevant as to if I agree or disagree with any of them).

As for Corrin and Roy; they were included as DLC characters; they were optional. Plus Roy had been cut already; he was brought back due to demand from his fan base, and, as far as I can tell, bringing him back received mixed reception. Plus, in the sight of "too many swordsmen," Marth will not be cut, Ike will not be cut, so, by virtue of being one they can cut, he could very well be first to go if cutting Lucina is not enough.

Corrin is unique enough to want to keep, but him being introduced as optional, and there having been backlash of, "Too many FE characters" and, "Oh he was just brought in because of Fates" or "The dragon stuff is cool but he's still a swordsman" will make them hesitate before putting him in.

I do withdraw my comment on Robin's continuation being debatable, but nothing else. If Roy and Lucina are cut, that leaves room for two FE characters without there being an increase. Potentially, that could be Micaiah and one character from either Tokyo Mirage Sessions # FE, or from the next FE game if it comes before Smash 5. The chances of Micaiah's inclusion cannot go down any more than they have barring someone high up in Nintendo saying outright, "Micaiah will never be a playable character in any Smash Bros characters." They can increase, however, by popular demand or by any remakes of the Tellius games.

Edited December 28, 2016 by vanguard333

[Anacybele]

jab, f tilt, up tilt, down air, and forward smash are entirely distinct. down smash, down tilt, nair, and counter are about the same thing, still with different stats. side b, back air, up air, and forward air look the same but their properties are drastically different. roy's up looks like marth's as much as ike's does. yes ike is definitely more overall distinct in overall move animations, but my point was to show that roy and marth are less similar than you portray them as. to speak of ike, he has counter and down smash. i actually maintain my opinion that roy and ike are equally, or near equally by an extremely small margin, since roy's mobility makes him feel completely different. he has faster vertical and horizontal air speed, which ike lacks.

No, my point is just what you said, that Ike is still more distinct and original than Roy is right now, regardless of what different properties Roy's moves have from Marth's. And Ike lacks more speed than Roy because he's meant to be a slower bulkier character. :/

And as others said, we don't need two Tellius reps and I'm also a person that doesn't like having two Awakening reps either when there are other FE worlds out there that have little to nothing (Jugdral and Magvel, anyone...). Ike alone represents Tellius well enough since he's a main character in both games, as I've said multiple times.

[Troykv]

Also would have liked Micaiah over Ike in Brawl. It's too bad FE is literally just sword characters + Robin's six magic attacks.

Yeah, I agree, it's such a shame.

I already read it over there, and I'm the same Captin Karnage

I'll look forward to playing as the glass cannon/wet tissue

Oh! C. Karnage! I remember you and your little joke about Micaiah's Physical defense! Hahahaha.

The moveset seems interesting. I've wanted Micaiah in Smash for a while but with Robin's moveset also being based around magic I doubt it'll happen unfortunately.

I know, but a man (or woman) can always dream and try to work for that dream.

Back in the day Ike's addition to smash didn't seem like a mediocre choice to me. Roy was dropped and Ike's addition paralleled Marth's fast and nimble style. However one game later we have not one but two newcomers, and one as another Marth clone. Then a few months after Roy returns, which makes Ike's addition to Brawl seem entirely pointless in my opinion, and lastly we get the hotly debated Corrin. What do they all have in common? Swords. It's been three games and 6 characters and they have yet to move on from Swords. The roster is so big and yet so stale that it doesn't even scratch the surface of Fire Emblem's potential. So yes I think Micaiah would have definitely been a better choice than Ike.

Fire Emblem is so filled with swords; it needs to change some day...

i think dragons are cool, so corrin is cool. roy is also 150% cooler than ike in this regard.

Eh, I'm not a fan of Corrin, but at least their moveset idea is nice.

I'm a Roy fan and I prefered it above Ike, but I'm not a Ike hater even my previous replies made it look in that way.

Ike is an awful, inconsistent character with a bland design and boring gameplay. And that's in Radiant Dawn alone. Bulked Ike soloing the game is lazy and irritating. Ike's in the running for my least favorite Lord in the series, alongside Hector and Lyn.

I've always preferred Micaiah in pretty much every aspect, and she'd be pretty unique. Roy, Lucina, Robin, and Corrin are fine to me though. I'd be okay if Lucina was dropped, but I wouldn't be happy or anything.

Ike was a mistake, and it let to the mess that was Awakening's Ike pandering as well. Too late for Micaiah now, but she would have been cool.

edit: does it even matter if we get the full weapon triangle or whatever. Bandana Dee and some random axe user from another Nintendo game would be good enough. The sword user argument is quite nebulous, especially since there are already a lot of swordfighters in the game anyway. It would be nice to see more weapon diversity from the series, but having weapons just to have them (Ephraim, Hector, etc) would be worse than adding fitting characters from other series like Kirby. Bandana Dee has a plenty fine lance, though I can't think of any major Axe characters. Of course, King Dedede's mallet is close enough.

Some times I had my doubts about Ike's design as a unit, as a character... he just confuse me, and some times makes me think he is popular just for Smash unlike what some people say about his character development.

Micaiah would be great indeed, and pipe dreams or not, I'm a supporter.

I like the idea. Miciah would of been a good choice as an addition, but at this point she really doesn't stand a chance of getting in. If we get any new fire emblem characters, whether it be through a new smash game or the rerelease on the Switch, the more recent games are the more likely to get in. The only reason Roy got in was due to a nostalgia trip for melee players.

And on the subject of Ike vs Miciah, why not both? I don't see any reason why there needed to be one over the other. I am fine with Ike as he was the main lord of Tellius, and I would of liked to see Miciah because we don't have enough side characters represented in Smash. Lucina is the only one. I really hope we see some more variation in that regard, because there are a lot of good side characters that would make great Smash characters.

I'm supporting regardless of what happens.

Eh? A side character?. Okay, I get Ike is the most loved character in the whole existence of Fire Emblem for whatever reason... but... calling Micaiah a lesser side character it's still... unfair... She is the first main character in the game (in a game with two main characters), the one that appears in the cover art.

Otherwise I would be cool with having both Ike and Micaiah; I don't want Ike to be replaced (I'm indifferent with him actually), but I want Micaiah in Smash; and again, I will continue sharing my support and Micaiah Love wherever I go

Edited December 28, 2016 by Troykv

[Anacybele]

Some times I had my doubts about Ike's design as a unit, as a character... he just confuse me, and some times makes me think he is popular just for Smash unlike what some people say about his character development.

Maybe I can help here. Remember the mercenary class from the GBA FE games and all? Think of Ike like that, but with a little bit of Lord characteristics mixed in (such as Ike getting an exclusive sword near the start of PoR that functions like a rapier, just has a different design). PoR Ike is actually based off of the mercenary class, but to still keep him a bit different, his starting class in his debut game gets to be called Ranger instead, and he wears a cape and gets unique attack animations. Aether's animation is also partly taken from the mercenary critical animation. And in PoR, Ike isn't wearing much armor or protection, showing that he doesn't have much knowledge on this yet.

In RD, Ike shows that he's stronger as both this kind of warrior and leader by wearing more armor, having gained more muscle, etc. He becomes more of that rougher, strength-oriented fighter. He doesn't wear a full suit of armor, only a partial suit to show that he's not a full on soldier or anything (and possibly to prevent slowing himself down too much), but just a tough mercenary. He also probably keeps his sword arm bare so armor doesn't weigh it down when he's trying to swing those huge swords he's got around (Ettard and Ragnell) as well as Urvan. Ike's tattered clothes show he cares more about his training and skill than his appearance. He's even missing most of one of his sleeves in PoR for crying out loud and doesn't care.

In short, Ike's meant to be a rougher, less graceful fighter than lords like Marth, Roy, Eliwood, etc. and his design is meant to reflect that. He leans more towards Hector and maybe Chrom in style. I've also heard that some inspiration for Ike came from Hector as well. Yet, he's probably not as reckless a fighter as Hector either, at least in RD given what I just described about his armor and bare sword arm.

Also, there are plenty of people that like Ike for his character development and not just Smash. I'm one of them myself. I know some other users here that share the same opinion too, like LordTaco.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Anacybele

[solrocknroll]

Ike has no character development at all. None. If you see some, you're probably looking too hard.

Ike's interactions with Mist/Soren/Titania are the only times Ike is likable. Ike never changes at all. In RD, he actually regresses to a state where he's willing to fight literally anyone just because. Part 3 is truly ridiculous, and there's no reason for Ike to have joined the Laguz Alliance. Ike's sheer lack of mercy to Zihark/Jill/Sothe/even Meg is callous. Someone like Marth would never act the way that Ike does.

I mean, there are very few FE characters who I feel are adequately developed. Funnily enough, Micaiah is one of them. Unlike Ike, Micaiah has to make actually difficult decisions and do things that are objectively "evil." Micaiah is probably my favorite Lord, especially since Part 1 is the best Part of RD. If you ask me, RD should have just been Part 1 + Part 2 + DB Parts of Part 3, and then a completely different Part 4. Micaiah and Elincia should have shared the spotlight. It's fine that Ike returns, but he shouldn't have stolen the spotlight. Ike ruins Elincia's moment in Part 2, and he ends up shoving her out of the way until Part 4.

[Augestein]

Post disappeared, so I'll just do a quick version.

@Ana: I'm saying at this point Ike should stay, but Micaiah should have been chosen first. Character development really doesn't matter in a fighting game, just character moveset variety and potential in this case. Both would have been good candidates in this case, so Micaiah is better for a fighting game ironically enough.

@Frey: The mount example was to say that the characters can do more than what they've done with FE characters. There's enough potential to not have the movesets we have.

[Anacybele]

Post disappeared, so I'll just do a quick version.

@Ana: I'm saying at this point Ike should stay, but Micaiah should have been chosen first. Character development really doesn't matter in a fighting game, just character moveset variety and potential in this case. Both would have been good candidates in this case, so Micaiah is better for a fighting game ironically enough.

@Frey: The mount example was to say that the characters can do more than what they've done with FE characters. There's enough potential to not have the movesets we have.

And I'm saying I disagree and that Ike was the right choice while Micaiah would've been the wrong one. We'll have to agree to disagree and that's that. And I never said character development was a reason Ike was in, I said his design, moveset potential, and the fact that he starred in both Tellius games rather than just one were the reasons.

Ike has no character development at all. None. If you see some, you're probably looking too hard.

Ike's interactions with Mist/Soren/Titania are the only times Ike is likable. Ike never changes at all. In RD, he actually regresses to a state where he's willing to fight literally anyone just because. Part 3 is truly ridiculous, and there's no reason for Ike to have joined the Laguz Alliance. Ike's sheer lack of mercy to Zihark/Jill/Sothe/even Meg is callous. Someone like Marth would never act the way that Ike does.

I mean, there are very few FE characters who I feel are adequately developed. Funnily enough, Micaiah is one of them. Unlike Ike, Micaiah has to make actually difficult decisions and do things that are objectively "evil." Micaiah is probably my favorite Lord, especially since Part 1 is the best Part of RD. If you ask me, RD should have just been Part 1 + Part 2 + DB Parts of Part 3, and then a completely different Part 4. Micaiah and Elincia should have shared the spotlight. It's fine that Ike returns, but he shouldn't have stolen the spotlight. Ike ruins Elincia's moment in Part 2, and he ends up shoving her out of the way until Part 4.

lol, Ike has no character development while Micaiah does? Did we play the same games here? It sounds like you didn't play PoR at all, because Ike most certainly has plenty of character development there and you have to be blind not to see it. I've seen a lot of people agree with this too. He lacks anymore of it in RD, sure, but he got plenty in PoR. Micaiah has little character development and is written pretty poorly. I've also seen people agree with this. Character development is not changing your personality, it's experiencing new things and learning and growing from them. Things like accepting new ideas and finding out that old ones might've been bad. Ike learned that his idea of all nobles being all those bad things he called them wasn't true, for example, when he met Elincia, Geoffrey, Sigrun, etc. He let his sword skills grow throughout the war so he could be strong enough to face the Black Knight. He learned what his father always meant when he said "we're a family" and stuff. He learns to be a real leader after having some struggles at first. He learns not to have angry outbursts in front of apostles too. :P

To provide another example of character development, let's go to Jill. She changes her views on laguz and stuff because she discovered Daein's teachings were wrong. Nothing about her personality changed.

No reason for Ike to join the Laguz Alliance? Ranulf is one of his best friends after their adventure in PoR and he asked for Ike's help. How is that not reason enough? Again, it sounds like you did not play PoR. Go and play it, please, and THEN make statements about Ike's character development and why he does what he does.

And of course Marth wouldn't act the way Ike does sometimes, Ike is not a noble or prince, he's a common mercenary with a blunt attitude. Ike is MEANT to act the way he does, just as Marth is meant to act how he does too.

Ike didn't steal Micaiah's spotlight in RD, that was Yune. I'm getting tired of correcting people on this.

If you don't like Ike, fine, but "Ike is only likeable here and here" is not fact, it's your opinion. Don't treat it like fact.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Anacybele

[solrocknroll]

Yune didn't steal anything lol. Yune takes Micaiah's place for maybe four chapters worth of time. What I meant is that Part 3 should have been solely focusing on the DB and Elincia, with Ike and the Mercenaries serving lesser roles like Seliph in Thracia 776.

Ike shouldn't be going off starting wars just because a friend asked it. Ike is unsympathetic to anyone who doesn't automatically agree with him in either game at all. Likewise, the fact that he distrusts nobles is annoying. Character development doesn't stop a character from being utterly unlikable at all before that point. Corrin grows well enough, and yet people hate them just because disliking Corrin is the cool thing to do, and the pseudo-intellectual Fates critics told them to. Ike is just as bad as Corrin, if not worse, at the beginning.

lol at assuming I haven't played every game in the series.

You're clearly ignoring everything that Micaiah learned if you think she didn't develop. If we apply your tenuous standards that apply to Ike, Micaiah started off as a poor woman who lives in fear of being discovered due to her Branded status. Despite that, her status allows her the power to heal others without staves, and due to the oppression that Ike caused by callously romping through Daein in PoR, Micaiah is forced to use her powers. Originally, she feared even being seen, but as Part 1 goes on, she begins to become the head of a grand revolution. It's taxing, as proven by 1-9. Micaiah wants what's good for Daein above all else, and she's willing to do anything to protect people. Micaiah does things that she doesn't agree with throughout all of Part 3, until she directs her hatred and pain towards Lekain.

Micaiah makes the actually difficult choices, even though she originally didn't even want to lead. That's as least as much development as "my dad died so i guess i have to be a man now." Coming of age plots are the worst, and there's nothing about becoming a "man" or "adult" that could ever be interesting. That's why matured characters like Roy, Micaiah, Sigurd, and Lucina are superior to the ones who are growing up like Ike, Seliph, or Corrin.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Freyjadour

[Lightchao42]

To be fair, Brawl's roster (sans Sonic) was finalized in 2005, so Radiant Dawn wasn't even a consideration at the time (and it's why Ike uses his PoR design despite RD being released before Brawl). Micaiah would likely have been seriously considered if Radiant Dawn was closer to release. I, personally, don't care about who gets in as long as they have a unique and interesting moveset, no matter what series they're from.

Also note the fact that characterization has no bearing on a fighting game, and if it did Mario, among others, wouldn't be included.

[Anacybele]

Ike shouldn't be going off starting wars just because a friend asked it. Ike is unsympathetic to anyone who doesn't automatically agree with him in either game at all. Likewise, the fact that he distrusts nobles is annoying. Character development doesn't stop a character from being utterly unlikable at all before that point. Corrin grows well enough, and yet people hate them just because disliking Corrin is the cool thing to do, and the pseudo-intellectual Fates critics told them to. Ike is just as bad as Corrin, if not worse, at the beginning.

lol at assuming I haven't played every game in the series.

You're clearly ignoring everything that Micaiah learned if you think she didn't develop. If we apply your tenuous standards that apply to Ike, Micaiah started off as a poor woman who lives in fear of being discovered due to her Branded status. Despite that, her status allows her the power to heal others without staves, and due to the oppression that Ike caused by callously romping through Daein in PoR, Micaiah is forced to use her powers. Originally, she feared even being seen, but as Part 1 goes on, she begins to become the head of a grand revolution. It's taxing, as proven by 1-9. Micaiah wants what's good for Daein above all else, and she's willing to do anything to protect people. Micaiah does things that she doesn't agree with throughout all of Part 3, until she directs her hatred and pain towards Lekain.

Micaiah makes the actually difficult choices, even though she originally didn't even want to lead. That's as least as much development as "my dad died so i guess i have to be a man now." Coming of age plots are the worst, and there's nothing about becoming a "man" or "adult" that could ever be interesting. That's why matured characters like Roy, Micaiah, Sigurd, and Lucina are superior to the ones who are growing up like Ike, Seliph, or Corrin.

Ike didn't start any wars. He's a mercenary, Ranulf hired him, he agreed because they're good friends. Why don't you understand this?

Ike disliking nobles is part of his character. So is his being unsympathetic sometimes (where do you think "You'll get no sympathy from me?" comes from?). It doesn't make him a bad character.

A character doesn't have to make difficult decisions to have character development. Jill didn't have to make any (unless you have her try to fight her dad in PoR and that's optional and not even recommended because she goes back to the enemy's side if you do this). Skrimir didn't have to make any. Yet they're agreed to be well-developed.

Micaiah looked like she was going to have good development, but as far as I saw, it was killed by her lack of enough screen time and Yune taking her spotlight in part 4. She was starting to grow a little in Parts 1 and 3, but it was destroyed by part 4. She didn't seem to gain much growth in leadership or tactics like Ike did. I feel her role was rushed because she and the DB didn't get enough screen time and part 1 was too short. Imo, part 1 should've been a separate game with parts 2, 3, and 4 being a third game.

lol I consider Lucina to be a pretty poorly written character too. I can't give an opinion on Roy or Sigurd due to not having played their games.

And again, I was never arguing that character development was a reason Ike was a better choice than Micaiah. Other people brought character development into the conversation.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Anacybele

[Hardin]

Personally I think Micaiah should have been selected as a newcomer rather than Ike, being a silver haired mage and a female would have helped her stand out of the crowd. That said, I think her time has long since passed and she shouldn't really be considered anymore. If anything, with more Fire Emblem assuredly releasing before Smash 5, I think we need to come to terms with Roy and Ike being retired.

[Augestein]

A character doesn't have to make difficult decisions to have character development. Jill didn't have to make any (unless you have her try to fight her dad in PoR and that's optional and not even recommended because she goes back to the enemy's side if you do this). Skrimir didn't have to make any. Yet they're agreed to be well-developed.

Jill did have to make decisions. She had to decide if she was going to stay with Ike. She could have left the minute she got to Begnion. She stayed because she wanted to see for her own eyes about what she was taught in school versus reality. Jill's supports are all canon honestly. Lethe likes her in RD whether you finished it or not, and Haar x Jill only makes some sense if you read their supports. Mist and Jill have a bond even if you don't A rank in PoR. Jill's support convo with Lethe has her trying to learn about the laguz and how to understand them. Jill makes clear conscious decisions about what she does. Jill can fight her dad and not defect. If you have an A support with Mist or a B rank with Lethe, you get the support-- fun fact, you cannot get Lethe A rank with Jill until POST father fight. After this point, she comes to terms with the fact that Laguz aren't bad, and that Daein-- or more specifically Ashnard needs to be stopped. She does it for her father, her people, and justice. For a support character, Jill has an amazing arc.

Skrimir does make decisions as well. Just really poor ones. He develops because he has a decent amount of screen time and we get to know him as a character.

Micaiah looked like she was going to have good development, but as far as I saw, it was killed by her lack of enough screen time and Yune taking her spotlight in part 4. She was starting to grow a little in Parts 1 and 3, but it was destroyed by part 4. She didn't seem to gain much growth in leadership or tactics like Ike did. I feel her role was rushed because she and the DB didn't get enough screen time and part 1 was too short. Imo, part 1 should've been a separate game with parts 2, 3, and 4 being a third game.

To be honest, neither Ike nor Micaiah really grow as leaders. Everything kinda just falls into Ike's lap, and people just sort of leave him in charge. Micaiah is in the same boat as Ike PoR in RD. The difference is that RD focuses on Micaiah's lack of leadership ability as we see her crumble apart as things get more stressful as she attempts to hold her country together while dealing with orders she doesn't want to do. She is a good squad leader, but she is not general material. That's probably the reason the game gives her 0 authority stars. She has no authority really and is not much more than a figure head. Still, I can't help but like a character that's THAT much of an underdog and trying their best.

In RD, Ike doesn't even really lead. He just kinda does what other people tell him to do. And he has to, because he's not leading the team, he's just a hired hand. In RD, he kinda sucks because Ike could literally be anyone. Heck, half of the enemies don't even recognize him making his inclusion even more frustrating. He should be known, but only main characters seem to give a damn about him (and I mean people like Sephiran etc as big players). Rarely ever does Ike have something noteworthy to contribute to scenes outside of one-liners. Soren is the tactician, and even Titania and Mist are pretty pointless this time around. Ike being the lead here is kinda weird, it'd be like making Dick/Dieck the lead of Binding Blade.

As much as I will say that I don't think PoR was a great story (I think it's so-so overall), it's certainly leagues ahead of RD's plot. There's too much happening, and too many characters for things to really go anywhere productively. I definitely agree that they should have either cut parts or made Part 1 its own game with Part 2, 3, and 4 being a finale. Fair enough about character development. I do recall seeing that comment and ignoring it now that you mention it (there wasn't much to say in response to it).

As for Ike's inclusion, yeah, I can agree to disagree. I always felt Miccy would have been better.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Augestein

[Anacybele]

Jill did have to make decisions. She had to decide if she was going to stay with Ike. She could have left the minute she got to Begnion. She stayed because she wanted to see for her own eyes about what she was taught in school versus reality. Jill's supports are all canon honestly. Lethe likes her in RD whether you finished it or not, and Haar x Jill only makes some sense if you read their supports. Mist and Jill have a bond even if you don't A rank in PoR. Jill's support convo with Lethe has her trying to learn about the laguz and how to understand them. Jill makes clear conscious decisions about what she does. Jill can fight her dad and not defect. If you have an A support with Mist or a B rank with Lethe, you get the support-- fun fact, you cannot get Lethe A rank with Jill until POST father fight. After this point, she comes to terms with the fact that Laguz aren't bad, and that Daein-- or more specifically Ashnard needs to be stopped. She does it for her father, her people, and justice. For a support character, Jill has an amazing arc.

Skrimir does make decisions as well. Just really poor ones. He develops because he has a decent amount of screen time and we get to know him as a character.

DIFFICULT decisions. Not just decisions in general. Having to choose between what you were taught previously and what someone else is telling you is not nearly as difficult as having to choose whether to sacrifice your foster sister whom you love to death or not (what Elincia had to do).

As for Ike's inclusion, yeah, I can agree to disagree.

Then that's that, and I have nothing more to say on this matter.

Although, you're right that some of the enemies in RD don't recognize Ike, and I feel that makes zero sense and is poor writing after how famous he became at the end of PoR and all. But I don't think it means that he had no reason to be in the game in a notable role. Maybe he didn't need to be a MAIN character, but given how famous and strong and respected he is, he had to show up somewhere and help out. If a war is brewing and his old friends need help, he won't just stand by and ignore it. Again, where do you think "I fight for my friends" came from?

Edited December 29, 2016 by Anacybele

[Sunwoo]

I, too, would have preferred Micaiah over Ike. A pure magic user like Micaiah would've been more interesting to see, not to mention that she'd have been the best choice for a female FE representative. Lucina looks like a Marth clone and uses his move set for the most part, while both avatars are either male or female but seem to be mostly marketed as male.

[Troykv]

I, too, would have preferred Micaiah over Ike. A pure magic user like Micaiah would've been more interesting to see, not to mention that she'd have been the best choice for a female FE representative. Lucina looks like a Marth clone and uses his move set for the most part, while both avatars are either male or female but seem to be mostly marketed as male.

Oh yeah, that is one of the reasons I would like to see Micaiah (I think I don't put it in the published version of the article xD)

[Captain Karnage]

I'm suprised to see how civil this discussion has been,

a controversial pick from me is Tsubasa from TMS #FE

[Hardin]

Tsubasa would be a badass addition to Smash.

[Roflolxp54]

While I do want Lyn or Anna to be playable in Smash, I'm more than okay with the idea of Micaiah being playable in Smash though it would be great if there were to be a Smash Emblem, Emblem Warriors, or whatever game.

[spoiler=Swords are everywhere if you know what to look for :^)]

Link

Kirby (Up-B and Ultra Sword Final Smash)

Young Link

Toon Link

Marth

Roy

Peach (in the event she randomly pulls a Beam Sword item via her down-B)

Meta Knight

Ike

Pit (Palutena Bow melee attacks)

Dark Pit (Silver Bow melee attacks)

Robin

Lucina

Corrin

Mega Man (Forward aerial)

Greninja (Forward aerial and smash attacks)

Ganondorf (Custom neutral-B)

Zelda (The Phantom summon from her down-B)

Shulk

Mii Swordfighter

Cloud

Tsubasa would be a badass addition to Smash.

Lance user? Check. Relevant? Check. Representation? Tokyo Mirage Sessions and by extension, Fire Emblem and Shin Megami Tensei. Also throw in ATLUS representation. Gender? Female.

Verdict: more than okay with this.

[Troykv]

I'm suprised to see how civil this discussion has been,

a controversial pick from me is Tsubasa from TMS #FE

I though it would become actually a little flame war; but isn't the case, and I love it.

If I wasn't already trying to help Micaiah, I would see Tsubasa as something nice :P

Tsubasa would be a badass addition to Smash.

And Spear/Lance user in general would be a cool addition.

While I do want Lyn or Anna to be playable in Smash, I'm more than okay with the idea of Micaiah being playable in Smash though it would be great if there were to be a Smash Emblem, Emblem Warriors, or whatever game.

[spoiler=Swords are everywhere if you know what to look for :^)]

Link

Kirby (Up-B and Ultra Sword Final Smash)

Young Link

Toon Link

Marth

Roy

Peach (in the event she randomly pulls a Beam Sword item via her down-B)

Meta Knight

Ike

Pit (Palutena Bow melee attacks)

Dark Pit (Silver Bow melee attacks)

Robin

Lucina

Corrin

Mega Man (Forward aerial)

Greninja (Forward aerial and smash attacks)

Ganondorf (Custom neutral-B)

Zelda (The Phantom summon from her down-B)

Shulk

Mii Swordfighter

Cloud

Lance user? Check. Relevant? Check. Representation? Tokyo Mirage Sessions and by extension, Fire Emblem and Shin Megami Tensei. Also throw in ATLUS representation. Gender? Female.

Verdict: more than okay with this.

I'm glad you like the idea, We'll need eventually a Fire Emblem Fighting Game xD

I wonder if TMS will get a port (at least Digital-Only) in the NS.