So i made Silas a Ninja and he can solo Lunatic Revelations...

[Shikinoyume]

The title basically...

I finally garbed a Special Edition copy of FE: Fates... Yeh almost a year later then the games release, despite being a HUGE FE fan and FE influencing my art style-

But I previously refused to play Fates by buying 3 separate games, and said that I'd never play it unless i had the special edition because i didn't agree with hos Nintendo handled the situation of the Special edition.

(Someone returned it at the gamestop my friend works in exchange for money off StarFox Zero at and i got it for $35 +tax)

So I was reading up on characters and things and... I kept coming across people praising Silas... and i tried him out on my Lunatic Birthright run... And he was ASS (lvl 37 with 12 speed... wtf)

And all these other forums i found with everyone talking about how good he was and "necessary to beat Conquest" (Not true)

I didn't even touch him for my Lunatic Conquest run, but like 2 days ago i picked him up in Revelations (Odd that he doesn't join in CH:7-8 like the other 2 games)

and I was like (WTF ARE THESE BASES!!!!)

But his speed was still ass so I threw him into DF for a while while i decided on a class for him so those bases wouldn't go to waste...

I like putting the characters in really odd classes for them or whatever class they have unique costumes for.

I didn't make Takumi a Sniper in Revelations of Birthright because his Sword Master costume is so epic and Mozu does the Sniper role better from my experiences

Then I decided to have him A+ with Kaze and swap to Master Ninja and now hes lvl 26 for CH:20 in Lunatic Revelations and everything gets murdered by him ._.

His Growths are:

45 50 5 70 60 40 45 40

Which i guess is still KINDA average but his high ass bases put him at 20 in DEF and RES by lvl 21

And how hes got like 25 SPE which is not as high as the actual ninjas you get would be, but its still enough to double the maps.

Holy crap I wish that i did this in Birthright and Conquest @_@

Edited January 3, 2017 by Shikinoyume

[Augestein]

Yeah. That cavalier has some Silas stats in Revelations. Haha... Couldn't resist that pun.

But yeah, turning Silas into a ninja effectively eliminates his biggest problem. Iffy speed. Takumi Swordmaster is amazing. It's a nice nod to the fact that he can fight with both. I like it.

[Radiant head]

man i wish takumi could be an awakening assassin.

think silas does ok without the speed, especially once he hits a-rank in swords for a brave, but ninja sounds pretty fantastic, and have yet to actually do lunatic.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Radiant head

[eclipse]

I wish there was a way to get Takumi Outlaw without having to marry Corrin! Pass and Fujin Yumi seems like such a hilarious combination!

Besides, if Silas makes a good Ninja. . .imagine what Xander looks like!

Edited January 3, 2017 by eclipse

[Light Strategist]

man i wish takumi could be an awakening assassin.

I kinda wonder how he'd do as a Bow Knight...

[Shikinoyume]

Yeah. That cavalier has some Silas stats in Revelations. Haha... Couldn't resist that pun.

But yeah, turning Silas into a ninja effectively eliminates his biggest problem. Iffy speed. Takumi Swordmaster is amazing. It's a nice nod to the fact that he can fight with both. I like it.

Yeh, I learned that in his support with Hana when i was geting sword master for him, If i remember correctly they talk about how Takumi used to be good with a sword but lost a practice match to Hana really bad and gave up on it :P

man i wish takumi could be an awakening assassin.

think silas does ok without the speed, especially once he hits a-rank in swords for a brave, but ninja sounds pretty fantastic, and have yet to actually do lunatic.

Bows and Swords would be nice, Im not the biggest fan of daggers in FE, because the characters who use them typically have HORRIBLE STR and end up doing no dmg....

AND ONE OF THEM IS FORCED IN ALMOST EVERY CHAPTER HE APPEARS IN AND IN THE END GAME!

*Glares at Sothe in frustration*

But honestly Ninja Silas is actually really good. the above average Speed growth and his naturally alittle above average STR gain couples well togther.

Plus hes DEF tanky naturally and Ninja gives him 45% RES growth.

So hes basically Saizo, but with speed and no magic

I wish there was a way to get Takumi Outlaw without having to marry Corrin! Pass and Fujin Yumi seems like such a hilarious combination!

Besides, if Silas makes a good Ninja. . .imagine what Xander looks like!

Xander's Ninja growths are:

50 55 5 60 55 60 45 30

So I dont think that it helps him as much as it helps Silas.

Also from my experience Reclassing in this game works best for characters who have time to grow, Xander comes to you at lvl 24 in both rev and conquest leaving no time to really benefit from the grows of another class.

(excluding DLC)

I kinda wonder how he'd do as a Bow Knight...

excluding a 70% HP gain (which he could desperately use)

its seems to be pretty trashy compered to Sniper, or Sword master for him...

it also drops his DEF growth to 35 in exchange for 30 in RES....

And drops his STR a tad below average at 45

Sofar i only like Bow knight on Niles and Corrin

Edited January 3, 2017 by Shikinoyume

[Qilin]

The title basically...

I finally garbed a Special Edition copy of FE: Fates... Yeh almost a year later then the games release, despite being a HUGE FE fan and FE influencing my art style-

But I previously refused to play Fates by buying 3 separate games, and said that I'd never play it unless i had the special edition because i didn't agree with hos Nintendo handled the situation of the Special edition.

(Someone returned it at the gamestop my friend works in exchange for money off StarFox Zero at and i got it for $35 +tax)

A long time ago, before downloading was fast, probably back in the times of the First Dragons, additional game routes that required the base game was sold as separate boxes, and were called "expansion packs." They included complete campaigns, additional characters, and new things, exactly the kind of content you would have gotten by buying additional Fire Emblem Fates routes, and their differences in cost relative to their base games were also just about the same as additional routes were to Birthright or Conquest.

Nintendo would have stepped on fewer toes if they referred to them as "expansions," instead of "games." Literally that is the only difference their purchase setup has with the "old ways." If the additional purchase requires already owning the game, whether out of necessity or as a paywall, then it should not be referred to as a game by itself. Red Dead Redemption didn't call Undead Nightmare a "game" either, in contrast Far Cry 3 could call Blood Dragon a game, because it worked by itself.

Anyway, you were right about Silas, I didn't need him for Conquest Lunatic either. His personal skill turns me off. I might try him being a ninja now though, now that it's working out so well for you.

[Shikinoyume]

A long time ago, before downloading was fast, probably back in the times of the First Dragons, additional game routes that required the base game was sold as separate boxes, and were called "expansion packs." They included complete campaigns, additional

They also weren't full price games....

they were typically half the price of the full game or less at least in my experience.

And no, in order to own all 3 routes of fates without the special edition thats a total of $100 exact.

The special edition was $80 and came with an Artbook, 2 posters and one was autographed Yusuke Koaki, a 3DS carrying pouch, and 2 FE: Fates keychain accessories.

which might not seem like alot to you, but to me (-An artist who's work is HEAVILY influenced by Yusuke Koaki, and draws inspiration from the FE series as a whole, WHO'S ORDER WAS CANCELED MIGHT I ADD)

It felt like a HUGE slap in the face and not getting the special edition for my FE collection, AND not getting the art book as a loyal fan who spends hundreds of dollars on FE merch and owns every other art book made by the artists of the FE series

IS was perfectly capable of putting all 3 games on one cart as the Special Edition shows and is what was originally planed according to IS.

Remember back to when fates was first announcced they stated that its initial retail price would be $49.99 thats $10 more then the current for one game to get both together in one game without revelations +$19 = $70 is was IS's original intent was...

But Nintendo had to step in and split the games up in an attempted to get more money out of their customers.

So as a loyal fan to FE I refuse to support Nintendo inconveniencing their customers for profit.

ESPECIALLY since i had to spend an additional $250 to get the autographed poster and artbook

Edited January 3, 2017 by Shikinoyume

[SalShich10N]

Well you got mad unlucky in your Birthright run, he usually gets more than 12 speed as a Cavalier itself, he doesn't has a bad speed growth either at 50%. In Birthright he's also pretty much your most defensive unit until you get Scarlet. Moreover that's the route where he has C rank in swords and D rank in lances, making him extra useful. In Revelations they said "hey dude, what if we give This cavalier HP LIKE IF HE WAS A PROMOTED GENERAL." I swear to god, his 39 HP is one hell of a drug.

Silas's crazy in conquest because if you buy him a speed tonic and pair him with Arthur (or buy him a Strength tonic and pair him with Niles) he can effectively double and kill almost everything early on, but yeah I agree he's not really necessary. Another unit that's crazy as a ninja is Xander, because he can still use his Siegfried and get his speed increased. Another way to make units crazy with speed is giving them Marth's class, Lodestar (using the free Awakening DLC). Specially Xander as a Lodestar because he only loses 1 point in strength, loses no defense (until you get Gentle blade), gets a natural +10% in hit and avoid and he eventually gets Speedtaker.

Edited January 3, 2017 by SalShich10N

[Shikinoyume]

Well you got mad unlucky in your Birthright run, he usually gets more than 12 speed as a Cavalier itself, he doesn't has a bad speed growth either at 50%. In Birthright he's also pretty much your most defensive unit until you get Scarlet. Moreover that's the route where he has C rank in swords and D rank in lances, making him extra useful. In Revelations they said "hey dude, what if we give This cavalier HP LIKE IF HE WAS A PROMOTED GENERAL." I swear to god, his 39 HP is one hell of a drug.

Silas's crazy in conquest because if you buy him a speed tonic and pair him with Arthur (or buy him a Strength tonic and pair him with Niles) he can effectively double and kill almost everything early on, but yeah I agree he's not really necessary. Another unit that's crazy as a ninja is Xander, because he can still use his Siegfried and get his speed increased. Another way to make units crazy with speed is giving them Marth's class, Lodestar (using the free Awakening DLC). Specially Xander as a Lodestar because he only loses 1 point in strength, loses no defense (until you get Gentle blade), gets a natural +10% in hit and avoid and he eventually gets Speedtaker.

Eh, I wanted to like Silas but his speed..................

anything under 60% is bad in my book, I rarely see a 50% proc...

ITS HARD TO GET A 60% TO PROC!

Also as stated above I dont really think Xander has a lot of time to gain any reasonable speed from his join chapter in Conquest to the end game, Revelations might be different but I don't like using Ryoma and Xander anyways...

when i got Ryoma in BR Lunatic and saw that this Sword master with no skills outside of the Samurai line skills was able to solo his join chapter IN LUNATIC I dropped him immediately...

I play FE for the fun of actually thinking through the map, Ryoma face rolls maps in lunatic without even having skills...

Now Xander requires a little more thought because he can actually die but he still makes the game WAY too easy...

Edited January 3, 2017 by Shikinoyume

[eclipse]

Xander's Ninja growths are:

50 55 5 60 55 60 45 30

So I dont think that it helps him as much as it helps Silas.

Also from my experience Reclassing in this game works best for characters who have time to grow, Xander comes to you at lvl 24 in both rev and conquest leaving no time to really benefit from the grows of another class.

(excluding DLC)

You're missing two things: bases and what the difference in growths mean. Here's Xander's bases:

Class     HP  Str  Mag  Skl  Spd  Lck  Def  Res
Paladin   38  23    4   18   15   20   23   11
Absolute  19  15    3   11    8   16   16    5
M. Ninja  36  20    3   21   19   18   20   13

And Silas' bases:

Class     HP  Str  Mag  Skl  Spd  Lck  Def  Res
Cavalier  39  19    3   16   12   11   19   14
Absolute  22  13    3   11    7    8   14   11
Ninja     38  16    3   19   15    9   17   14

Just by bases, it's pretty clear that Silas wins HP/Res, while Xander has Luck. "But what about growths?" I'll explain below.

The other flaw is that high numbers in growths is just that - high numbers. A difference of 5% means a difference of on stat point after twenty levels, on average (so Silas' 5% Speed lead on Xander will make itself apparent at 20/18, assuming Xander eats an Eternal Seal). A 10% difference is one point of stat difference every ten levels (so Silas will seize the Skill lead at 20/8 by a whopping one point). Between Silas and Xander, only one growth of theirs has more than a 10% differential - and that's Xander's 20% Luck lead. In other words, the larger stat differences will be seen in their bases, not their growths.

The biggest argument in Silas' favor IMO is that getting that A+ support requires less grinding. The biggest arguments in Xander's favor IMO are that his bases are better, and that Siegfried makes a bitchin' ninja sword.

[SalShich10N]

Eh, I wanted to like Silas but his speed..................

anything under 60% is bad in my book, I rarely see a 50% proc...

ITS HARD TO GET A 60% TO PROC!

Also as stated above I dont really think Xander has a lot of time to gain any reasonable speed from his join chapter in Conquest to the end game, Revelations might be different but I don't like using Ryoma and Xander anyways...

when i got Ryoma in BR Lunatic and saw that this Sword master with no skills outside of the Samurai line skills was able to solo his join chapter IN LUNATIC I dropped him immediately...

I play FE for the fun of actually thinking through the map, Ryoma face rolls maps in lunatic without even having skills...

Now Xander requires a little more thought because he can actually die but he still makes the game WAY too easy...

Curiously, Conquest was the game that made me stop hyping speed as the best stat altogether. Attack Stance really mitigates the lack of speed very well since high strength units can reach the extra little milage needed for kills, plus you get a few great units to fall back on in the nick of times. Hoshidan enemies have a tendency of having high speed but low defenses so they fall prey to attack stance with more ease. 60% not enough? How much speed do you want, anyways? lol

There are many ways to make Xander double stuff if you really want him to. The most common being marrying him to a Berserker Charlotte (she gives 5 Speed and 8 Strength what he can't double he kill in one hit), then feed him Strength and Speed tonics, and your speedwings. Bonus points if you have Peri on the mess hall. You end up with a mounted fortress that takes nearly no damage. Then again, you don't always need to double, he's great just for pulling entire groups of enemies himself, and letting the units behind him finish the job. Lunatic Conquest is the perfect place to make him go bonkers since the game is already going insane on you anyways. Like seriously I can possibly think of a way to get through both sides of chapter 25 in Conquest Lunatic without him and like 3 Freeze staves. I find a lot of fun in using Xander not only as a powerhouse, but also as an engine to strengthen other units.

Yeah I don't use Ryoma until the endgame either (I grind him to level 20 on Invasion 3 by making him sit on the gate). I did use the Amiibo Marth unit on my Birthright Lunatic run, he was very fun.

[Shadow Mir]

Eh, I wanted to like Silas but his speed..................

anything under 60% is bad in my book, I rarely see a 50% proc...

ITS HARD TO GET A 60% TO PROC!

Also as stated above I dont really think Xander has a lot of time to gain any reasonable speed from his join chapter in Conquest to the end game, Revelations might be different but I don't like using Ryoma and Xander anyways...

when i got Ryoma in BR Lunatic and saw that this Sword master with no skills outside of the Samurai line skills was able to solo his join chapter IN LUNATIC I dropped him immediately...

I play FE for the fun of actually thinking through the map, Ryoma face rolls maps in lunatic without even having skills...

Now Xander requires a little more thought because he can actually die but he still makes the game WAY too easy...

Speaking of Ryoma, for whatever reason, likely how reliable dodging ISN'T as a defense in Fates, I don't think he's all he's cracked up to be...

[eclipse]

Speaking of Ryoma, for whatever reason, likely how reliable dodging ISN'T as a defense in Fates, I don't think he's all he's cracked up to be...

Wrong topic. DROP IT.

[Shadow Mir]

Regarding Silas, I'm not entirely sure what to think - on the one hand, he joins early (in Birthright and Conquest, at least), which means he has a lot of time to contribute, but on the other hand, he tends to have problems with speed, and his personal skill is too impractical to get any real mileage out of.

Also, OP, whatever were Silas's stats?

Edited January 3, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[SalShich10N]

You're missing two things: bases and what the difference in growths mean. Here's Xander's bases:

Class     HP  Str  Mag  Skl  Spd  Lck  Def  Res
Paladin   38  23    4   18   15   20   23   11
Absolute  19  15    3   11    8   16   16    5
M. Ninja  36  20    3   21   19   18   20   13

And Silas' bases:

Class     HP  Str  Mag  Skl  Spd  Lck  Def  Res
Cavalier  39  19    3   16   12   11   19   14
Absolute  22  13    3   11    7    8   14   11
Ninja     38  16    3   19   15    9   17   14

Just by bases, it's pretty clear that Silas wins HP/Res, while Xander has Luck. "But what about growths?" I'll explain below.

The other flaw is that high numbers in growths is just that - high numbers. A difference of 5% means a difference of on stat point after twenty levels, on average (so Silas' 5% Speed lead on Xander will make itself apparent at 20/18, assuming Xander eats an Eternal Seal). A 10% difference is one point of stat difference every ten levels (so Silas will seize the Skill lead at 20/8 by a whopping one point). Between Silas and Xander, only one growth of theirs has more than a 10% differential - and that's Xander's 20% Luck lead. In other words, the larger stat differences will be seen in their bases, not their growths.

The biggest argument in Silas' favor IMO is that getting that A+ support requires less grinding. The biggest arguments in Xander's favor IMO are that his bases are better, and that Siegfried makes a bitchin' ninja sword.

To add on this, often too high growths do not mean they'll catch up. The infamous Mozu despite having beefed up growths will never really catch up in Strength, Defense or HP until very late in her career. If she's kept as a villager and its promotions, she'll always turn into a mediocre unit that's more of a hassle to level and grind than for the resulting unit due to lukewarm offense and defense for the longest time. In order to shine she needs to reclass as soon as possible into an Archer because the ranged attacks allow her to bypass her weak defenses and the Bows/Yumi's new massive increase in might plus the skill Quick Draw is what allows her to make the most use of her Speed and Skill, which are otherwise her only notable stats.

In contrast, if the RNG wills it units can get continuous pings in stats with low growths. I once had a run where Charlotte got 6 points of defense in a row as a Berserker (20% growth. There is a 0.0064% chance of that happening).

Edited January 3, 2017 by SalShich10N

[Radiant head]

Curiously, Conquest was the game that made me stop hyping speed as the best stat altogether. Attack Stance really mitigates the lack of speed very well since high strength units can reach the extra little milage needed for kills, plus you get a few great units to fall back on in the nick of times.

yeah i thought the same thing, and that dodging isn't too reliable now means that i try to avoid counter attacks (unless i'm trying to get sakura/elise to lvl 20) whenever possible, which makes doubling a bit less important.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Radiant head

[Shikinoyume]

You're missing two things: bases and what the difference in growths mean. Here's Xander's bases:

Class     HP  Str  Mag  Skl  Spd  Lck  Def  Res
Paladin   38  23    4   18   15   20   23   11
Absolute  19  15    3   11    8   16   16    5
M. Ninja  36  20    3   21   19   18   20   13

And Silas' bases:

Class     HP  Str  Mag  Skl  Spd  Lck  Def  Res
Cavalier  39  19    3   16   12   11   19   14
Absolute  22  13    3   11    7    8   14   11
Ninja     38  16    3   19   15    9   17   14

Just by bases, it's pretty clear that Silas wins HP/Res, while Xander has Luck. "But what about growths?" I'll explain below.

The other flaw is that high numbers in growths is just that - high numbers. A difference of 5% means a difference of on stat point after twenty levels, on average (so Silas' 5% Speed lead on Xander will make itself apparent at 20/18, assuming Xander eats an Eternal Seal). A 10% difference is one point of stat difference every ten levels (so Silas will seize the Skill lead at 20/8 by a whopping one point). Between Silas and Xander, only one growth of theirs has more than a 10% differential - and that's Xander's 20% Luck lead. In other words, the larger stat differences will be seen in their bases, not their growths.

The biggest argument in Silas' favor IMO is that getting that A+ support requires less grinding. The biggest arguments in Xander's favor IMO are that his bases are better, and that Siegfried makes a bitchin' ninja sword.

Actually Xander can also A+ Kaze for ninja but I don't think that he can marry Kagero

Silas has both options however.

That said, yeh his bases are one thing, but I still dont think that his stats are actually going anywhere with those simi-low growths

And I think Xander would do much better in DF then M.Ninja...

High bases on top of high bases + simi-high growths sounds scary ._.

How much speed do you want, anyways? lol

There are many ways to make Xander double stuff if you really want him to. The most common being marrying him to a Berserker Charlotte (she gives 5 Speed and 8 Strength what he can't double he kill in one hit), then feed him Strength and Speed tonics, and your speedwings. Bonus points if you have Peri on the mess hall. You end up with a mounted fortress that takes nearly no damage. Then again, you don't always need to double, he's great just for pulling entire groups of enemies himself, and letting the units behind him finish the job. Lunatic Conquest is the perfect place to make him go bonkers since the game is already going insane on you anyways. Like seriously I can possibly think of a way to get through both sides of chapter 25 in Conquest Lunatic without him and like 3 Freeze staves. I find a lot of fun in using Xander not only as a powerhouse, but also as an engine to strengthen other units.

Considering how much the enemy spams Attack Stance, I'd rather units that dont take 3 hits from one enemy attack

I also haven't really been using tonics (even though a lot of people told me that those were also "necessary" to beat Lunatic, which is also not true...)

I probably should be using them, BUT money is kinda tight in Revelations and ESPECIALLY Conquest...

Plus I try not to us DEF stance too much, unless im trying to tank an enemy phase as I also spam attack stance and when i tried to pair up a few units I kept comingin to situations where i NEEDED the Attack Stance DMG but you cant while using DEF stance to make a unit simi viable....

so i really don't like to use it often.

Speaking of Ryoma, for whatever reason, likely how reliable dodging ISN'T as a defense in Fates, I don't think he's all he's cracked up to be...

yeah i thought the same thing, and that dodging isn't too reliable now means that i try to avoid counter attacks (unless i'm trying to get sakura/elise to lvl 20) whenever possible, which makes doubling a bit less important.

Dodging has been.... OK.... sometimes..... (geting hit by a 1% is definitely one of the most annoying things in the world...)

But in a few cases I find DEF to be rather....misleading...

I know that sounds cray but in both Conquest and Revelations I made Camilla a Wyvern Lord and her def went up to about 2-3 less then Benny

However she for some reason takes TONS more DMG then Benny does...

Like maybe im missing something in Fates's calculations but i feel like 2-3 less DEF shouldent equate to 5-7 more DMG taken...

OP, whatever were Silas's stats?

In which run?

Birthright or my current Revelations run?

I didn't use him in Conquest...

To add on this, often too high growths do not mean they'll catch up. The infamous Mozu despite having beefed up growths will never really catch up in Strength, Defense or HP until very late in her career. If she's kept as a villager and its promotions, she'll always turn into a mediocre unit that's more of a hassle to level and grind than for the resulting unit due to lukewarm offense and defense for the longest time. In order to shine she needs to reclass as soon as possible into an Archer because the ranged attacks allow her to bypass her weak defenses and the Bows/Yumi's new massive increase in might plus the skill Quick Draw is what allows her to make the most use of her Speed and Skill, which are otherwise her only notable stats.

In contrast, if the RNG wills it units can get continuous pings in stats with low growths. I once had a run where Charlotte got 6 points of defense in a row as a Berserker (20% growth. There is a 0.0064% chance of that happening).

Well I re-classed Mozu to Archer on her join chapter and lether get all the kills, and I never need to worry about her

Also you cant really use her as an example of high growths not meaning anything, she doesn't have high growths herself at all, besides the Speed and Skill like you mentioned.

This is why i let her run around in Merchnt for a few levels for the HP and DEF growths beforeswapping backto Sniper...

And she got massive amounts of them both due to both having 70% with aptitude

[Shadow Mir]

In which run?

Birthright or my current Revelations run?

I didn't use him in Conquest...

Your current Revelations run. And I guess I'm curious as to how bad he turned out to be in Birthright as well.

[GoXDS]

And no, in order to own all 3 routes of fates without the special edition thats a total of $100 exact.

The special edition was $80 and came with an Artbook, 2 posters and one was autographed Yusuke Koaki, a 3DS carrying pouch, and 2 FE: Fates keychain accessories.

it's only $100 if you decided for some reason to buy 2 physical instead of 1 + Digital 2nd route + Revelations, making it $80, too. is the need for a physical thing worth losing the free stuff from having multiple routes on 1? the US SE also didn't have the posters or keychain but yes, SE still better worth (not that SE or CE like this isn't uncommon for Nintendo =\)

but yea, I want to know what your Revelation Silas's stats were like because I'm quite doubtful he can "solo" the whole thing by himself. what do you specifically mean by that anyways?

Edited January 3, 2017 by GoXDS

[SalShich10N]

Considering how much the enemy spams Attack Stance, I'd rather units that dont take 3 hits from one enemy attack

I also haven't really been using tonics (even though a lot of people told me that those were also "necessary" to beat Lunatic, which is also not true...)

I probably should be using them, BUT money is kinda tight in Revelations and ESPECIALLY Conquest...

Plus I try not to us DEF stance too much, unless im trying to tank an enemy phase as I also spam attack stance and when i tried to pair up a few units I kept comingin to situations where i NEEDED the Attack Stance DMG but you cant while using DEF stance to make a unit simi viable....

so i really don't like to use it often.

But in a few cases I find DEF to be rather....misleading...

I know that sounds cray but in both Conquest and Revelations I made Camilla a Wyvern Lord and her def went up to about 2-3 less then Benny

However she for some reason takes TONS more DMG then Benny does...

Like maybe im missing something in Fates's calculations but i feel like 2-3 less DEF shouldent equate to 5-7 more DMG taken...

Well I re-classed Mozu to Archer on her join chapter and lether get all the kills, and I never need to worry about her

Also you cant really use her as an example of high growths not meaning anything, she doesn't have high growths herself at all, besides the Speed and Skill like you mentioned.

This is why i let her run around in Merchnt for a few levels for the HP and DEF growths beforeswapping backto Sniper...

And she got massive amounts of them both due to both having 70% with aptitude

While it's true that enemies in Conquest have high speed, they often don't have high enough speed to double your unit unless it's someone like Benny, Effie or the enemies are Ninjas or Swordmasters. Generals do get Wary Fighter which completely nullifies the fear of ever getting doubled, and even if they did they usually don't mind 3 hits of damage below 5. Besides if you do enough damage and you kill an enemy in attack stance you won't see the 3rd hit anyways.

Tonics are not necessary, but they help A LOT more than you think. They can be the difference between a paired up team doubling the whole map or you having to turtle a whole map. Every tool matters, specially when making up for some units weaknesses.

Personally I believe whether to use Attack Stance or Guard Stance is a matter of moderation and the present ammount of enemies. For instance if you're dealing with 4 enemies and you have your 8 units available it's not unwise to have everyone be in Guard Stance to ensure safety. Likewise if it's 7 enemies and you have 9 units available it's better to stick to Attack Stance and wipe everything in your turn. If you're approaching a group of 5 enemies and you have 7 units available it's wise to have one or two teams paired up to draw in fire and leave the rest unpaired so that the ones getting attack don't receive Attack Stance damage, build up Guard Stance meter and then wipe everything in your turn with the remaining units. That's how I'd deal with the situations anyways.

As for why Benny received less damages I can think of many factors: If Benny was in a forest or fortress tile then Natural Cover activated (-3 damage taken). If Benny was adjacent to Elise or Camilla herself then their personal skills were active. If it was Conquest then maybe the enemy attacking Camilla was sneaking a damage boosting skill like Quick Draw or Elbow Room while the one attacking Benny didn't. Weapon Triangle Advantage could have been a factor too.

Alright let me put growths to you this way. If Nyx were to have an 80% skill growth she still would never ever have more Skill than Odin. Because Odin has 10 Skill at level 5 and Nyx has 5 skill at level 9. Even at a 100% Skill growth it would take Nyx 5 levels to get as much skill as Odin has when he was level 5, likewise by the time Odin himself is level 14 at his 55% skill growth he would have reached 15 skill, a benchmark this hypothetical Nyx wouldn't reach until level 19. Essentially: regardless of growths you still have to deal with a Zeno's Paradox going on around your team.

Edited January 3, 2017 by SalShich10N

[Shikinoyume]

it's only $100 if you decided for some reason to buy 2 physical instead of 1 + Digital 2nd route + Revelations, making it $80, too. is the need for a physical thing worth losing the free stuff from having multiple routes on 1? the US SE also didn't have the posters or keychain but yes, SE still better worth (not that SE or CE like this isn't uncommon for Nintendo =\)

No US DID get the autographed poster, its the Special Edition game case cover, when you open the case and take the cover out the case the poster folds out from the case cover.

And the key chains were available sepreately but free with purchase of the Special edition depending on where you bought it from, I think GameStop and Walmart were the only 2 with the keychains.

-----------------------------------------

And Hold on with the Silas thing, Im at work and my DS is at home.

[Shikinoyume]

While it's true that enemies in Conquest have high speed, they often don't have high enough speed to double your unit unless it's someone like Benny, Effie or the enemies are Ninjas or Swordmasters. Generals do get Wary Fighter which completely nullifies the fear of ever getting doubled, and even if they did they usually don't mind 3 hits of damage below 5. Besides if you do enough damage and you kill an enemy in attack stance you won't see the 3rd hit anyways.

Tonics are not necessary, but they help A LOT more than you think. They can be the difference between a paired up team doubling the whole map or you having to turtle a whole map. Every tool matters, specially when making up for some units weaknesses.

Personally I believe whether to use Attack Stance or Guard Stance is a matter of moderation and the present ammount of enemies. For instance if you're dealing with 4 enemies and you have your 8 units available it's not unwise to have everyone be in Guard Stance to ensure safety. Likewise if it's 7 enemies and you have 9 units available it's better to stick to Attack Stance and wipe everything in your turn. If you're approaching a group of 5 enemies and you have 7 units available it's wise to have one or two teams paired up to draw in fire and leave the rest unpaired so that the ones getting attack don't receive Attack Stance damage, build up Guard Stance meter and then wipe everything in your turn with the remaining units. That's how I'd deal with the situations anyways.

As for why Benny received less damages I can think of many factors: If Benny was in a forest or fortress tile then Natural Cover activated (-3 damage taken). If Benny was adjacent to Elise or Camilla herself then their personal skills were active. If it was Conquest then maybe the enemy attacking Camilla was sneaking a damage boosting skill like Quick Draw or Elbow Room while the one attacking Benny didn't. Weapon Triangle Advantage could have been a factor too.

Alright let me put growths to you this way. If Nyx were to have an 80% skill growth she still would never ever have more Skill than Odin. Because Odin has 10 Skill at level 5 and Nyx has 5 skill at level 9. Even at a 100% Skill growth it would take Nyx 5 levels to get as much skill as Odin has when he was level 5, likewise by the time Odin himself is level 14 at his 55% skill growth he would have reached 15 skill, a benchmark this hypothetical Nyx wouldn't reach until level 19. Essentially: regardless of growths you still have to deal with a Zeno's Paradox going on around your team.

No for Camilla and Benny I tested it on the same enemy Camilla and Benny had the same Lance (a bronze lance) and I just looked at the battle forecast i didn't actually make them fight it with a bronze lance.

Benny was going to take 3 DMG and Camilla was going to take 7 DMG despite their def Being at 27 and 25 respectively.

And your calculation for Odin and Nyx assumes that Odin gets SKL every lvl up which probably wont hapen.

Plus Stats can only go so high, higher the growth, the faster they usually cap.

My Nina in revelations has a 70% Magic growth as a Witch, and capped her magic at lvl 36

Rhajat has a 50% growth and capped it MUCH later despite starting off with more base magic then Nina.

Higher grows equal more chances to proc it on lvl up and if the RNG wills it, it will proc often.

And I never said that Tonics were useless, I said that I don't have the money for them...

And on the Attack and Guard stance it dosen't matter when you SHOULD be using them,my point still remains that I dont like using either of them as a way to make a simi-viable unit become viable.

Revelations already has SUPER low deployment for every map,and I got no time for pair up bots If they can be replaced with a Unit who doesn't need to be paired up to kill things or be fast enough to double things

Lastly I call Bull shit on that "rarely have enough to double" remark, as almost EVERY SINGLE UNIT in Conquest has a trash speed growth

When I went through Conquest on Lunatic ONLY Corrin, Azura, Anna, Elise, Effie, Leo, Mozu, Selena, Camilla, and Niles had enough speed to NOT get doubled

And Effie and Leo ONLY had enough speed to NOT get doubled because I made them a Dread Fighter and Dark Flier respectively

Everyone else like Keaton and Benny had to rely on their tankability, and thats not even the case for characters like Laslow whos slow and relatively frail in comparison to rest of the cast.

I made Odin a Samurai and bought Replicate for him to get +5 SPE by pairing up with himself...

Becuase He like almost basically every other Gen 1 Unit is slow as hell...

Edited January 3, 2017 by Shikinoyume

[Shadow Mir]

No for Camilla and Benny I tested it on the same enemy Camilla and Benny had the same Lance (a bronze lance) and I just looked at the battle forecast i didn't actually make them fight it with a bronze lance.

Benny was going to take 3 DMG and Camilla was going to take 7 DMG despite their def Being at 27 and 25 respectively.

I'd assume Benny was in range of a unit with Demoiselle, which cuts the damage male allies take in combat by 2.

[SalShich10N]

No for Camilla and Benny I tested it on the same enemy Camilla and Benny had the same Lance (a bronze lance) and I just looked at the battle forecast i didn't actually make them fight it with a bronze lance.

Benny was going to take 3 DMG and Camilla was going to take 7 DMG despite their def Being at 27 and 25 respectively.

And your calculation for Odin and Nyx assumes that Odin gets SKL every lvl up which probably wont hapen.

Plus Stats can only go so high, higher the growth, the faster they usually cap.

My Nina in revelations has a 70% Magic growth as a Witch, and capped her magic at lvl 36

Rhajat has a 50% growth and capped it MUCH later despite starting off with more base magic then Nina.

Higher grows equal more chances to proc it on lvl up and if the RNG wills it, it will proc often.

And I never said that Tonics were useless, I said that I don't have the money for them...

And on the Attack and Guard stance it dosen't matter when you SHOULD be using them,my point still remains that I dont like using either of them as a way to make a simi-viable unit become viable.

Revelations already has SUPER low deployment for every map,and I got no time for pair up bots If they can be replaced with a Unit who doesn't need to be paired up to kill things or be fast enough to double things

Lastly I call Bull shit on that "rarely have enough to double" remark, as almost EVERY SINGLE UNIT in Conquest has a trash speed growth

When I went through Conquest on Lunatic ONLY Corrin, Azura, Anna, Elise, Effie, Leo, Mozu, Selena, Camilla, and Niles had enough speed to NOT get doubled

And Effie and Leo ONLY had enough speed to NOT get doubled because I made them a Dread Fighter and Dark Flier respectively

Everyone else like Keaton and Benny had to rely on their tankability, and thats not even the case for characters like Laslow whos slow and relatively frail in comparison to rest of the cast.

I made Odin a Samurai and bought Replicate for him to get +5 SPE by pairing up with himself...

Becuase He like almost basically every other Gen 1 Unit is slow as hell...

Well I encourage you to check well, it has to come from somewhere. Sadly we're not fortunate enough to get defense out of the blue and it's not class specific as it doesn't work on enemies.

No my Calculation assumed that over the course of 9 level Odin got 5 points in skill [10 + (0.55 * 9)] = 14.95. I am serious, even if Nyx gets a point in skill every level she won't catch up to Odin getting a point every two levels until well after they promote (because Odin's skill cap kicks in before promoting), and even then she'll still lose because Odin caps his skill at 27 while Nyx will cap it at 24. That's the true power of bases.

Children are hard to judge, because they also go off the bases inherited by their parents, auto levels and a number of other factors. Nina despite actually having a very high innate base in strength and decent growth, she also has a decent base in magic as well. Rhajat needs to have a physical mom in order to have a Mag growth that low and the only possible mom that can give a base 50% growth in mag to Nina is Elise. Rhajat has a natural 60% Mag growth and Nina has only 30%. If Elise was an active, well leveled member in your party and Niles was an Adventurer chances are Nina got a very high mag base to begin with from Elise on top of her growths and bases. In order to achieve this outcome you actively had to search of a bad mom for Rhajat and marry poor Elise to a thief (which makes me sad).

How do you not have money for them, specially in Conquest. Conquest literally never stops throwing money at your direction, it baffles me how much money you get in that route. Really: Chapter 7: 3,000g , 8: 10,000g, 9: 3,000g, 10: 10,000g, 12: 5,000g, 13: 5,000g, 14: 10,000g, 16: 6-8,000g, 17: 5,000g, 18: 10,000g, 19: 5,000g, Percy's: let's say 5,000g, 20: 10,000g, 22: 5,000g, 23: 10,000g, 25: 10,000g, 26: 20,000g

So I really find it hard to believe you lack money for tonics in Conquest. That's over 130,000g total, not even counting the bitch coins Lilith throws at you. Limited resources my ass.

Thing is that if you don't explore different tactics and use different things then how viable or not a unit is only boils down to how they adapt to your fixed playstyle, and not a real reflection on what that unit really has to offer. In that case it's not "this unit is not good" it's just a "I don't like this unit", which is merely an opinion based on personal experience.

Trash speed growth? Even the eponymous Silas you opened the topic with has a 50% speed growth, that's really a point in speed every two levels, which is hardly bad.

You say "ONLY" however You mention a good chunk of the cast. Add Nyx and Peri to those and it's easier to count who has a bad speed than who has good speed.

Let's do that ourselves: Arthur (I'll give you this, his greatest weakness), Effie (high growth, doesn't get doubled as a Great Knight, hides a lot of speed if reclassed), Silas (Enough as well as a Great Knight), Odin (worst unit in conquest, can be quite speedy as a Samurai), Beruka (Terrific defense, doesn't give a damn. also flies), Laslow (Second worst unit he's Arthur stuck with swords or a slow Kaze), Benny (Gives even less damns than Beruka, specially if promoted early), Leo (Lightning tomes basically have his name written on them), Keaton (Also a terrific tank, can be promoted early but he's better to breed out Velouria), Xander (Can solo maps on his own), Flora (You want her for staves anyways). Does anyone even uses Izana in Conquest anyways?

If Conquest was trying to send out a message to the player base, it certainly was that speed shouldn't be the most important stat like the older games in the series. You are given units with good bulk in this route for a reason. Even Charlotte herself has shitloads of HP, but the developers forgot to increase her actual base level appropriate stats. Level 10 is way to low for her initial chapter.