Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[shadowofchaos]

2 minutes ago, Thor Odinson said:

To be fair he has every unit under the sun and did a bunch of inheritance work for her, which a normal F2P would not necessarily have access to, depending on luck.

But also, like I said, it's a tradeoff of availability versus efficiency.

If you have no available focus units and Sophia is pretty easily available as your red axe killer, she by no means "sucks". You have to make up for it with positioning/dancer.

[GaleforceAbuse]

2 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

And then his def is really really low. I'm not good with units like that. Looks like I'd have trouble using Cecilia too though.

EDIT: Sorry, but it's my opinion that Sophia sucks. I don't give a damn what other people do with her.

Base Sophia is pretty awful, but this mentality seems detrimental. How can you improve if you aren't willing to consider what other people have been able to do? Sophia is a strong and tanky mage. She does really quite well with Triangle Adept and Swordbreaker (and a Raudrraven if you can spare it.) 

For example, you don't like a lot of units because of low defense, it seems. But SPD can do a lot to patch up a unit's durability. Lucina, Ryoma, and Marth for example, have less defense than Frederick, but they can actually be about as tanky against a lot of physical units in a typical arena battle because they don't get doubled nearly as easily.

[MaskedAmpharos]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

This too.

I swear, people act like we're all Ice Dragons sometimes. (not directing this at anyone in particular, just saying). I don't have the resources to use skill inheritance on a Cecilia just to get a few orbs.

While this is certainly true (which is why I had the whole disclaimer about how this may or may not matter to you since you probably wouldn't be willing to inherit skills onto Cecilia), I think what people are finding issue with is the way you say "X character is bad" as opposed to "X character is bad if you don't want to bother with inheritance/team building around them". The two statements may sound very similar, but they're interpreted in vastly different ways...as you can probably tell by the response you've gotten from some people. 

[GinRei]

"Sophia sucks" and "A low leveled, no inheritance, still in training Sophia sucks" are two very different things.  The former implies that she'll never be usable for anything, while the latter implies you aren't going to invest in her, and as such she's difficult to use.  Stop getting overly defensive just because you state your opinions as absolute fact and then get offended that others disagree.

[Alkaid]

Figures after I upgraded  my nearly-40 4* Celica to a 5* so I could feed her tome to Camilla we now get that lvl 35+ kill quest for her. Now I'll have to raise that 3* one up..

[Anacybele]

Uh, but ANY unit that's low level with no inheritance and still in training sucks.

[Arcanite]

3 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

EDIT: Sorry, but it's my opinion that Sophia sucks. I don't give a damn what other people do with her.

Not gonna lie, I thought this was pretty hilarious XD

Sophia is too meh, even though she is extremely tanky. I have her 4 star so the quest is gonna be EZ bangerz for me.

Decided not to pull for spring Lucina. Her defenses are a little low for me.

[r_n]

It's pretty cool how skill inheiritance can make so many seemingly trash units into anywhere ranging from usable to great.

Costly, but cool that your favorites aren't necessarily trash forever. Mostly.

[Othin]

"You can make Sophia work" isn't the same as "Sophia is good". Especially if you're using a lot of inheritance and having her do things other red mages would do better, if available.

---

I don't particularly like the look of the upcoming banner and Celica's absence indicates we'll be getting a similar Echoes banner with her next, so I decided to spend most of my orb stockpile on the current banner to at least have a shot at getting more limited-time units. With about 100 orbs, I was lucky enough to get four 5*s: a Raven, a second Merric, and two Spring Lucinas. The Raven is fine despite not being particularly unique, but the Merric really feels like a waste. I used my original Merric a lot early on, and checking now, it turns out he has his best possible stat spread (+Spd, -Res), but I haven't had any real use for him in a long time, so I don't see much to gain from a merge. And Merric doesn't have good inheritable skills either, so using him for inheritance would be even worse. I'm really happy about the two Lucinas, though. My plan is to train up the better one and possibly try having her take over for Camilla as my bonus unit sometime this week, while the other could contribute a Swift Sparrow inheritance to someone.

[Thor Odinson]

5 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

All I did was give her Triangle Adept 3. Nothing more. She tanks green units for days.

If you want her to actually one-round something, though, she needs a Weaponbreaker or Quick Riposte, but a dancer is sufficient and easier to get.

 

Requires Raudhrraven+ from Henry, which makes things more expensive, but not by too much.

That still requires the f2p to have a spare Roy they're willing to part with lying around, though. At 4*-5* he's not the easiest roll, either. 

5 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

But also, like I said, it's a tradeoff of availability versus efficiency.

If you have no available focus units and Sophia is pretty easily available as your red axe killer, she by no means "sucks". You have to make up for it with positioning/dancer.

Sure, but I was specifically addressing the point of using an inherited build to say "x is suddenly great" as suggestion on how to use a character when it's not reliable to have any of the relevant skills available unless they're on the free heroes.

Not just this instance, mind. I hear a lot of "LoD Minerva scrub build Fury masterrace" and yeah you know what would be nice

actually rolling Hinata

I don't think Sophia's inherently unworkable, mind. Your advice for using her is sound and something I agree with in principle. The skill inheritance bit that other people are talking about is what I take issue with.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Thor Odinson

[Vaximillian]

1 minute ago, Arcanite said:

Her defenses are a little low for me.

Ana, don't try to circumvent the no doubleposting rule by hijacking other people's accounts.

[Anacybele]

4 minutes ago, GinRei said:

Stop getting overly defensive just because you state your opinions as absolute fact and then get offended that others disagree.

Yet SoC is allowed to get offended because I didn't share his opinion about Sophia? Also, all I really said was that I don't agree and that's all. Nothing too defensive about that.

EDIT: @Vaximillian Funny. xP

Edited April 12, 2017 by Anacybele

[GinRei]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

Uh, but ANY unit that's low level with no inheritance and still in training sucks.

I disagree.  Tanky units (Armored ones, Dragons, etc) are vastly easier to use and train than ranged units because you can often just toss them into the enemy and let counter attacks do all the work.

[MaskedAmpharos]

2 minutes ago, Othin said:

"You can make Sophia work" isn't the same as "Sophia is good". Especially if you're using a lot of inheritance and having her do things other red mages would do better, if available.

Sure, but people aren't necessarily saying "Sophia is good" so much as disagreeing with the statement that "Sophia is bad". 

"You can make Sophia work" is precisely the point people are trying to get across. 

EDIT: Also, a key thing to point out here is your statement of "other red mages would do better, if available."

There's no guarantee whatsoever of pulling any other red mages, but there is a guarantee of getting a 3* Sophia.

As such, if you have no other red mages to work with, it would be prudent to at least consider how Sophia can be worked with, no?

Edited April 12, 2017 by MaskedAmpharos

[GaleforceAbuse]

1 minute ago, Othin said:

"You can make Sophia work" isn't the same as "Sophia is good". Especially if you're using a lot of inheritance and having her do things other red mages would do better, if available.

---

I don't particularly like the look of the upcoming banner and Celica's absence indicates we'll be getting a similar Echoes banner with her next, so I decided to spend most of my orb stockpile on the current banner to at least have a shot at getting more limited-time units. With about 100 orbs, I was lucky enough to get four 5*s: a Raven, a second Merric, and two Spring Lucinas. The Raven is fine despite not being particularly unique, but the Merric really feels like a waste. I used my original Merric a lot early on, and checking now, it turns out he has his best possible stat spread (+Spd, -Res), but I haven't had any real use for him in a long time, so I don't see much to gain from a merge. And Merric doesn't have good inheritable skills either, so using him for inheritance would be even worse. I'm really happy about the two Lucinas, though. My plan is to train up the better one and possibly try having her take over for Camilla as my bonus unit sometime this week, while the other could contribute a Swift Sparrow inheritance to someone.

True. I do feel like Sophia is probably the best Raudrraven user. And for Merric, hmm, if you ever have the spare resources, what about a Gronnraven+ on him? He definitely seems like he pulls it off better than Cecilia, though that is 20000 feathers for something you might not really need.

[Alkaid]

So at least it's agreed Sophia is better than Henry, right? :^)

[shadowofchaos]

7 minutes ago, Thor Odinson said:

Sure, but I was specifically addressing the point of using an inherited build to say "x is suddenly great" as suggestion on how to use a character when it's not reliable to have any of the relevant skills available unless they're on the free heroes.

 

I didn't actually say "Sophia is great". I was going doe the point of "she doesn't suck".

The former of "Sophia can 1 round +10 takumis" was addressing the point that every unit has value.

Ana has this unfortunate mindset that "If it doesn't work for me, they suck".

I still have yet to see what @eclipse said regarding broadening her mindset.

I wasn't offended at the unit. I was offended at you reverting back to what you did in the Michalis thread despite stating in a new thread that you have the ability to even make slight bit of progress, yet wholeheartedly revert back to the exact statements you said you learned from.

I don't care about your account or the way you play heroes. But you make statements regarding unit evaluation without backing them up, you should expect to get opposition in a fire emblem forum.

Edited April 12, 2017 by shadowofchaos

[Othin]

Just now, MaskedAmpharos said:

Sure, but people aren't necessarily saying "Sophia is good" so much as disagreeing with the statement that "Sophia is bad". 

"You can make Sophia work" is precisely the point people are trying to get across. 

You can make any character "work". It doesn't mean some of them aren't bad. And especially if someone doesn't have the resources to make a character work, it's plenty reasonable for them to say "this character is bad" with an understood "(with the options I have available)".

[Thor Odinson]

what i did for sophia on the quest was just shove my lv 40 lachesis/reinhardt in front of her, block off the melee and let her pew from behind

or if it's an archer/mage, well, i got pain on lachesis

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

"You can make Sophia work" is precisely the point people are trying to get across. 

The problem is still how much she requires to "work." Players like me who don't have access to a bunch of skills and are mostly F2P would be better off using someone else.

2 minutes ago, GinRei said:

I disagree.  Tanky units (Armored ones, Dragons, etc) are vastly easier to use and train than ranged units because you can often just toss them into the enemy and let counter attacks do all the work.

I still disagree. 4 or 5 star units are easier to train, but even tanky units at lower star levels can easily be killed if you're not careful.

 

[Kiran]

I think we're getting on Ana's case a bit here. Clearly Sophia isn't anybody's top choice. In fact, I would bet that even with SI she's still sub optimal. But Ana isn't going to be doing SI and for her purposes, Sophia isn't a great unit.

[Thor Odinson]

1 minute ago, shadowofchaos said:

I didn't actually say "Sophia is great". I was going doe the point of "she doesn't suck".

The former of "Sophia can 1 round +10 takumis" was addressing the point that every unit has value.

Ana has this unfortunate mindset that "If it doesn't work for me, they suck".

I still have yet to see her do what @eclipse

But I was not addressing your comment. I was specifically addressing the bit about Ice Dragon's builds because using him (or SI in general) is not a great example of what normal people can reliably achieve. I did make an edit so I don't think you've seen my post, but I actually agree with your approach.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Thor Odinson

[Arcanite]

1 minute ago, Alkaid said:

So at least it's agreed Sophia is better than Henry, right? :^)

Definitely 

[MaskedAmpharos]

Btw, moving off of Sophia, @Anacybele I seem to remember you used to say you had trouble with mages because your units all had low resistance?

In that case, I think Niles would be perfect for you because his specialty is precisely tanking and killing mages (while his low def won't be as much of an issue because your other, high def units, like Frederick, can tank those physical hits for him.

[Othin]

1 minute ago, GaleforceAbuse said:

True. I do feel like Sophia is probably the best Raudrraven user. And for Merric, hmm, if you ever have the spare resources, what about a Gronnraven+ on him? He definitely seems like he pulls it off better than Cecilia, though that is 20000 feathers for something you might not really need.

I know that's the sort of thing some people do, but personally, I don't expect to ever have enough feathers that I'd be happy spending 20k on inheriting a weapon rather than on getting a new permanent character to 5*. I'm also not really looking for -raven users, anyway. Hector takes care of colorless and blues just fine.