Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[DehNutCase]

Just now, Bartozio said:

With vantage he can kill as many Linde's as you want...

That'll sure save him from mages that aren't Linde. Being able to 1HKO one of the squishiest mages in the game who he has a color advantage against isn't good enough when: Not all mages are squishy, and, not all mages are blue.

Just now, Bartozio said:

His movement is an issue for defence teams, but on offence it is quite doable to play around that weakness with pivot and reposition. I'm not saying he breaks the game or anything, but I do consider him the best physical green units at the very least.

The fact that Hector has to use up his own turn (and often other people's turns) to move around is already a huge minus for him---not every team can afford dragging a slow ass armor around. Quick Riposte Bartre with DC is basically him, except with an actual player phase (and useful assist skill---Bartre with reposition can do things, Hector with reposition is a joke).

Just now, Bartozio said:

I'll grant you that Reinhardt often takes two hits to kill though, which means he can't counter two. Still, running into a legion of Reinhardt isn't that common

So I guess, since Hector is there to 'counter' blue mages, what you do when multiple Reins show up is to just forfeit? (If you need 2 green units to cover blue mages, then one of them isn't doing their job properly.)

Just now, Bartozio said:

and he can deal with Nowi pretty well (since she ofter runs TA), so he handles blue threads quite well, while also being quite decent at dealing with other green and gray units.

Everyone deals with Nowi pretty well. She has no speed, mediocre damage, and only slightly above average bulk (because she can't use her A-slot for a bulk skill if she wanted to live through Falchions) while being a melee infantry (that is, only slightly better than an armor in terms of threat range). In what universe is Nowi a threat to anything? She can't even counter all of red properly because Falchion exists, meaning a Lucina has a fair shot at killing her if it's not the TA 3, Swordbreaker combo, (L&D Lucina in desperation range 2HKOs TA 3 Nowi with either a special proc or an attack buff,) which loses to everything under the run because the B-slot isn't QR.

If you can't even cover reds properly with a TA3 set, then can you really be called a 'threat'?

 

Also, we're going to assume every green handles blues well, because it's a very shitty unit that can't handle their advantage color.

 

 

Greens and Grays are a fair point, Hector does well against greens so long as they're not mages---who 2HKO him. So it's a fairly 'okay' coverage of: Blues, green physicals, and grays. Normally this wouldn't be much of a problem, just move him to fight the advantage matchups, problem solved.

 

HE'S ARMORED. BEING BAD AT MOVING IS WHY HE'S BAD IN THE FIRST PLACE. Not only do you have to devote his assist to moving (pivot), but you have to use up other people's assist too, quite often.

 

And, even after all that, his biggest failing is that he's a counter-kill unit. The reason offensive units are favored is because they spend less hp to kill units than defense units (on a fort is a different story, but that's only half the time). Raven, for example, can just brave-axe desperation people to death without losing any hp, but Hector stops being able to kill things once he gets low enough that he can't tank hits---because he sure as heck isn't attacking on player phase with his ONE MOVE.

Maybe you use him better than I do, I don't know, but I know that I'm not going to drag a piece of dead weight around just so he can win one fight and be worse than useless the rest of the arena battle. (Worse than useless, because I have to position him out of harms way, and even using pivot requires other people being around him, limiting positioning.)

 

 

 

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

At this point its obvious Fae is in fact the best dragon

[DehNutCase]

16 minutes ago, JSND said:

At this point its obvious Fae is in fact the best dragon

Ninian is a dancer. The fact that being a dragon is suffering doesn't mitigate the fact that being a dancer means that you can be 1 hp/ 1atk/1 spd/1 def/1 res and still contribute.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

1 minute ago, DehNutCase said:

Ninian is a dancer. The fact that being a dragon is suffering doesn't mitigate the fact that being a dancer means that you can be 1 hp/ 1atk/1 spd/1 def/1 res and still contribute.

FUCK

 

Best Dragon that isn't Dancer, and now don't you bullshit me with that F Corrin or Adult Tiki in an imaginary world where Brave Dragon exist

[Bartozio]

45 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

That'll sure save him from mages that aren't Linde. Being able to 1HKO one of the squishiest mages in the game who he has a color advantage against isn't good enough when: Not all mages are squishy, and, not all mages are blue.

Perhaps I shouldn't have used Linde as the only example. A lot of blue mages are squishy. I think the only blue mages that can take a pysical hit and are actually used in the arena are M!Robin and Reinhard. Robin generally has TA, so his damage is neglectable, even to Hector, and he's not taking a hit to well either. This means that he can vantage kill every relevant blue mage other then Reinhardt, making him a great counter for them.

45 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

The fact that Hector has to use up his own turn (and often other people's turns) to move around is already a huge minus for him---not every team can afford dragging a slow ass armor around. Quick Riposte Bartre with DC is basically him, except with an actual player phase (and useful assist skill---Bartre with reposition can do things, Hector with reposition is a joke).

I'll concede that Hector will generally not use his assist skill to help his team, but only himself. Apart from that, yes he's a counter killer. This means he will generally not have a great player phase, but being able to kill so many units simply by being placed in their range is enough to make him useful to me. One of the reasons Hector can still function when on low hp is that he can run vantage, which the Bartre set you mentioned cannot do.

45 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

So I guess, since Hector is there to 'counter' blue mages, what you do when multiple Reins show up is to just forfeit? (If you need 2 green units to cover blue mages, then one of them isn't doing their job properly.)

If I encounter multiple Reins, I'd have Hector bait one and let my own Rein kill the other. I could also try to bait one, and reposition Hector close enough to the other one to kill him on player phase. It's not a perfect strategy, but I never ran into a team of multiple Reins, so if I lose to such a team once or twice I'll just consider it bad luck. I don't think any arena team can deal with every single team composition anyway, and my team that uses Hector can get me a deathless win streak easy enough (and yes, Hector is the only green unit).

1 hour ago, DehNutCase said:

Everyone deals with Nowi pretty well. She has no speed, mediocre damage, and only slightly above average bulk (because she can't use her A-slot for a bulk skill if she wanted to live through Falchions) while being a melee infantry (that is, only slightly better than an armor in terms of threat range). In what universe is Nowi a threat to anything? She can't even counter all of red properly because Falchion exists, meaning a Lucina has a fair shot at killing her if it's not the TA 3, Swordbreaker combo, (L&D Lucina in desperation range 2HKOs TA 3 Nowi with either a special proc or an attack buff,) which loses to everything under the run because the B-slot isn't QR.

If you can't even cover reds properly with a TA3 set, then can you really be called a 'threat'?

 

Also, we're going to assume every green handles blues well, because it's a very shitty unit that can't handle their advantage color.

 

 

Greens and Grays are a fair point, Hector does well against greens so long as they're not mages---who 2HKO him. So it's a fairly 'okay' coverage of: Blues, green physicals, and grays. Normally this wouldn't be much of a problem, just move him to fight the advantage matchups, problem solved.

A green mage 2HKO'ing him is only a problem if he can't one-shot them, which isn't the case for all of them. Nino and Soren can't always take the hit, and Julia fails to outspeed Hector.

45 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

HE'S ARMORED. BEING BAD AT MOVING IS WHY HE'S BAD IN THE FIRST PLACE. Not only do you have to devote his assist to moving (pivot), but you have to use up other people's assist too, quite often.

 

And, even after all that, his biggest failing is that he's a counter-kill unit. The reason offensive units are favored is because they spend less hp to kill units than defense units (on a fort is a different story, but that's only half the time). Raven, for example, can just brave-axe desperation people to death without losing any hp, but Hector stops being able to kill things once he gets low enough that he can't tank hits---because he sure as heck isn't attacking on player phase with his ONE MOVE.

Maybe you use him better than I do, I don't know, but I know that I'm not going to drag a piece of dead weight around just so he can win one fight and be worse than useless the rest of the arena battle. (Worse than useless, because I have to position him out of harms way, and even using pivot requires other people being around him, limiting positioning.)

As I said before, his movement is indeed a weak point. However, he is not useless after one round of combat. His defence is high enough that he can tank multiple rounds of combat against physical units, and even if he takes a heavy hit, he can still vantage kill other enemies or take hits from some blue melee units.

I have never had that much trouble getting him in the right position, but maybe that has to do with my team composition and playing style? (I tend to use him alongside Reinhard with draw back and Ryoma with repostion, along with a bonus unit who's main role is supporting).

Of course, I'm not telling you to use Hector yourself or anything if doesn't fit your playstyle, but calling him a bad unit feels uterly ridiculous to me.

[DehNutCase]

54 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

Perhaps I shouldn't have used Linde as the only example. A lot of blue mages are squishy. I think the only blue mages that can take a pysical hit and are actually used in the arena are M!Robin and Reinhard. Robin generally has TA, so his damage is neglectable, even to Hector, and he's not taking a hit to well either. This means that he can vantage kill every relevant blue mage other then Reinhardt, making him a great counter for them.

I'll concede that Hector will generally not use his assist skill to help his team, but only himself. Apart from that, yes he's a counter killer. This means he will generally not have a great player phase, but being able to kill so many units simply by being placed in their range is enough to make him useful to me. One of the reasons Hector can still function when on low hp is that he can run vantage, which the Bartre set you mentioned cannot do.

If I encounter multiple Reins, I'd have Hector bait one and let my own Rein kill the other. I could also try to bait one, and reposition Hector close enough to the other one to kill him on player phase. It's not a perfect strategy, but I never ran into a team of multiple Reins, so if I lose to such a team once or twice I'll just consider it bad luck. I don't think any arena team can deal with every single team composition anyway, and my team that uses Hector can get me a deathless win streak easy enough (and yes, Hector is the only green unit).

A green mage 2HKO'ing him is only a problem if he can't one-shot them, which isn't the case for all of them. Nino and Soren can't always take the hit, and Julia fails to outspeed Hector.

As I said before, his movement is indeed a weak point. However, he is not useless after one round of combat. His defence is high enough that he can tank multiple rounds of combat against physical units, and even if he takes a heavy hit, he can still vantage kill other enemies or take hits from some blue melee units.

I have never had that much trouble getting him in the right position, but maybe that has to do with my team composition and playing style? (I tend to use him alongside Reinhard with draw back and Ryoma with repostion, along with a bonus unit who's main role is supporting).

Of course, I'm not telling you to use Hector yourself or anything if doesn't fit your playstyle, but calling him a bad unit feels uterly ridiculous to me.

I guess my biggest problem with him is that he's good vs. teams that are easy to beat in the first place: Low mobility, melee dominant teams that have very low 'threat range' (2 for armors, 3 for melee infantry as opposed for 4 for cavary and mages and 5 for mage cavalry).

Edit: 'Hard to beat' teams have either---absurd individual matchups in that very few units can beat a 1v1 vs. the units in the team, or huge, overlapping threat ranges where if you put one unit in enemy range, that unit is going to get dog-piled by 2 or 3 units at once---occasionally due to dancer support. Hector does decently if all the threats he's facing are: physical, ultra-glass cannon like nino, and, best of all, slow (in terms of movement) as molasses so he can actually get into position.

Ex. If Hector is facing horse emblem that's actually kitted out, you don't have the movement to force the right engagements because he doesn't move far enough, fast enough, to pick the fights he needs to while the horses just ride into either his face or into his back-line. The fact that, in a horse emblem team, even the blue mages have a decent shot at 1RKOing him doesn't help. (=Rein 2HKOs =Hector with empty A-slot, -bladetome, and +6/+6. Rein's fast enough to double hector with Hone cav.)

 

To put it another way, the teams Hector does best against are the very teams I don't need him to win, because I can just pick them off one by one pretty much no matter what my team is.

Edit: That is, being useful vs. 'easy' teams isn't the mark of a S+ tier unit, that's the mark of an 'average' unit, being able to beat teams that are easy to beat. It's units that beat teams that are hard to beat that deserve to be called 'good.'

Edited June 5, 2017 by DehNutCase

[GaleforceAbuse]

2 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

Everyone deals with Nowi pretty well. She has no speed, mediocre damage, and only slightly above average bulk (because she can't use her A-slot for a bulk skill if she wanted to live through Falchions) while being a melee infantry (that is, only slightly better than an armor in terms of threat range). In what universe is Nowi a threat to anything? She can't even counter all of red properly because Falchion exists, meaning a Lucina has a fair shot at killing her if it's not the TA 3, Swordbreaker combo, (L&D Lucina in desperation range 2HKOs TA 3 Nowi with either a special proc or an attack buff,) which loses to everything under the run because the B-slot isn't QR.

 

 

 

I think you're way, way overselling the L&D Lucina thing. If you're using Nowi on offense, no enemies should ever have Desperation up anyway (especially one as frail as L and D Lucina.) No one uses Falchion people on their defense teams anymore (if anyone does use a sword that's not part of a horse/flier/armour emblem team, it's almost guaranteed to be Ryoma/Ike. At least, that's what I'm seeing in tier 18.) I do think the wiki overrates her (A+ sounds good for her, honestly), but she's a solid swiss army knife. (Granted, Nowi's not great on defense (but honestly, nowadays, no one who isn't a powerful ranged unit or like an armoured unit stacked to the nines with ward armour is.) I think she's more or less a better Hector (though if you're at the very top of the arena, he's better by virtue of higher BST, which matters at that level.)

Speaking of which, I cannot wait until we have crap like ward dragons. 

[DehNutCase]

37 minutes ago, GaleforceAbuse said:

I think you're way, way overselling the L&D Lucina thing. If you're using Nowi on offense, no enemies should ever have Desperation up anyway (especially one as frail as L and D Lucina.) No one uses Falchion people on their defense teams anymore (if anyone does use a sword that's not part of a horse/flier/armour emblem team, it's almost guaranteed to be Ryoma/Ike. At least, that's what I'm seeing in tier 18.) I do think the wiki overrates her (A+ sounds good for her, honestly), but she's a solid swiss army knife. (Granted, Nowi's not great on defense (but honestly, nowadays, no one who isn't a powerful ranged unit or like an armoured unit stacked to the nines with ward armour is.) I think she's more or less a better Hector (though if you're at the very top of the arena, he's better by virtue of higher BST, which matters at that level.)

Speaking of which, I cannot wait until we have crap like ward dragons. 

What I'm trying to get at with Lucina is that, even after running TA3, there are reds that can cripple Nowi. Most blues aren't forced to run TA3 just to beat their advantage color---but Nowi has to, because otherwise Falchions destroy her. This limits Nowi's viable builds, and limits her role on a team. Her A-slot is forced to TA3, which pretty much forces her B-slot to QR (because, with her low base speed and A-slot taken, she has no way to actually do things without QR doubles).

 

Compare her to Camus, for example, he doesn't need TA3---empty A still has him beating all swords off the back of his color and spread. This gives him the option to run Fury 3, L&D if you're feeling fancy, a generic +3 to stat skill, whatever. And his A-slot being free means that his B-slot is also free, he can run breakers vs. a unit type he hates (that isn't green), he can run renewal because, with 3 move, he can just renewal kite things to death, he can run QR---usually he doesn't need to, because he can reach 36 with Fury 3 or 38 with L&D. Camus is also on a horse for 3 move, no infantry weakness, and better buff support.

Nowi is the definition of a 'single niche unit,' thanks to her spread and typing, and even her TA3, QR niche is better done by other units. (Reinhardt, for example, can run Blade, Close counter, Vantage, to 1HKO everyone she can 2HKO, and more besides. Thanks to the sheer ridiculousness of horse class buffs. Ignoring Reinhardt, Nowi then has to beat Azura---Gem weapon for red coverage, and dance for when reds are gone. Ignoring Rein and Azura, there's Effie (who doesn't need TA to kill reds because she one shots them, and Wary means she never dies to anything). Ignoring armors, there's all the blue horses, Camus in particular, who can replicate her 1-2 range counter with minimum fuss. Ignoring horses, there's Ephraim who can do the same 'fuck reds' thing while also being great at buffing. Ignoring units with roles other than TA3 QR... and, I don't know, I guess Nowi might be the best at her niche, given that her niche is defined by 'TA 3, kill reds, do nothing else'?)

 

 

Edit: Basically, Nowi is the Setsuna of blue units. She has a good set, yes, but her good set can be done better by other units, and other units also have other good sets in addition to the set Nowi's forced to run.

Edited June 5, 2017 by DehNutCase

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

5 hours ago, Vaximillian said:

dh if you can’t be bothered to look up ð

This will never stop rustling my jimmies :(

Rauorblade!

[Vaximillian]

5 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Rauorblade!

Rawrblade.

[Arcanite]

WHY CAN'T WE JUST SAY 

REDBLADE 

[LuxSpes]

I'll use Rauðrblade and Rauðrraven. It's fancier than redblade.

Edited June 5, 2017 by LuxSpes

[Vaximillian]

1 minute ago, LuxSpes said:

Rauðrblade

I love you (no homo). ð is a cool letter.

[GuiltyLove]

6 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

I love you (no homo).

I love all of you

Full homo

Oh wait...

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Redblade sounds edgy af. And I've got a reputation to keep so...

[MaskedAmpharos]

36 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

WHY CAN'T WE JUST SAY 

REDBLADE 

Doesn't sound cool enough :P

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Therefore i propose a new name for that weapon

 

 

GAGAGA GAGAGA GAOGAIGAHRBLADE

 

 

There. Discussion over

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

We should just call it the Wo Dao.

[Big Smoke]

Do defiant skills work to add attack with ____blade weapons?

If so, would a defiant attack 3 work better with Nino than Fury 3?

[MaskedAmpharos]

6 minutes ago, Big Smoke said:

Do defiant skills work to add attack with ____blade weapons?

If so, would a defiant attack 3 work better with Nino than Fury 3?

Yes, they do work with blade weapons.

No, it wouldn't work better. The reason is because a) Nino is too frail to safely and consistently get into Defiant range and b) Defiant does not stack with Hone, so in most cases Nino would prefer to get her attack boost from Hone Atk + LD/Fury instead of Defiant Attack and c) you would sacrifice the speed you get from LD/Fury, which is arguably more important than stacking more attack.

It can work, if you want to try it, but it's a bit more niche. 

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

12 minutes ago, Big Smoke said:

Do defiant skills work to add attack with ____blade weapons?

If so, would a defiant attack 3 work better with Nino than Fury 3?

DA is treated as buff. So yes you get 14 ATK from it on a Blade weapon, for a total of 26 with maximum buff value

 

The problem is Fury also gives you speed and did not need activation and its MT isn't even much lower. Consider this

3 buff Defiant: 7 ATK + 7 Gronn, + 12 Buff Gronn = 26

Renais Atk with 3 buff Fury: 3 ATK + 3 Gronn + 12 Buff Gronn + 3 Fury = 21 with 3 more speed

Renais Atk with 3 buff LnD: 3 ATK + 3 Gronn + 12 Buff Gronn + 5 LnD = 23 with 5 more speed

 

You can't even say "BUT DEFIANT ATTACK HAVE NO DOWNSIDE" because the amount of damage you took with it already emulates LnD and Fury's downside

Edited June 5, 2017 by JSND

[Troykv]

Seeing some much negative opinions about Hector... 

 

Makes me wonder how you would do a Tier List.

[Quintessence]

Just read the news about Tempest Trials and Masked Marth. Does anyone knoe Masked Marth's skills and statspread?

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

11 minutes ago, Quintessence said:

Just read the news about Tempest Trials and Masked Marth. Does anyone knoe Masked Marth's skills and statspread?

 

Its still not up iirc

 

11 minutes ago, Troykv said:

Seeing some much negative opinions about Hector... 

 

Makes me wonder how you would do a Tier List.

 

I mean, everyone probably already knows what my personal tier list looks like lol with the standard rebutal, so it would be beating the dead horse

That said under control, Hector would be at best A+ Tier in a tier where S is the Top so he's still fairly high. He's just ok if it did not include BST weighting. With BST weighting Hector is objectively speaking the highest a unit can get, with his only rival being Zephiel who is limited by the fact that he is free.

 

In term of Arena defense.... i mean its Hector. If i could make an entire tier at the bottom to detail how terrible he is, i would

Edited June 5, 2017 by JSND

[Troykv]

17 minutes ago, JSND said:

 

Its still not up iirc

 

 

I mean, everyone probably already knows what my personal tier list looks like lol with the standard rebutal, so it would be beating the dead horse

That said under control, Hector would be at best A+ Tier in a tier where S is the Top so he's still fairly high. He's just ok if it did not include BST weighting. With BST weighting Hector is objectively speaking the highest a unit can get, with his only rival being Zephiel who is limited by the fact that he is free.

 

In term of Arena defense.... i mean its Hector. If i could make an entire tier at the bottom to detail how terrible he is, i would

I would love to see your Tier List...

Or at least Which units you consider the worst and the best in Offense