Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[Quintessence]

10 minutes ago, Catria! said:

IS has strange balancing decisions

 

6 minutes ago, Oboro! said:

Heh I like them

I like them a lot

#NinoIsRagnaroksSister

Your avys are lulzy

Is there any new stuff this week?

[Othin]

10 minutes ago, KongDude said:

They're really getting worse and worse with balancing their weapons. Slaying weapons have nothing to lose against Killings (besides availability).

Also, I love the Owl tomes, even if they might not compare to Blades well. Mae obliterates with it. It only requires itself to function and basically gives Death Darting Armored Warding Blow on both phases.

The point of Slayer weapons is to address balance issues. Killer weapons were too weak relative to other weapons, so now there's a stronger version available.

[Rezzy]

13 minutes ago, KongDude said:

They're really getting worse and worse with balancing their weapons. Slaying weapons have nothing to lose against Killings (besides availability).

Also, I love the Owl tomes, even if they might not compare to Blades well. Mae obliterates with it. It only requires itself to function and basically gives Death Darting Armored Warding Blow on both phases.

The Owls may be outclassed, but using Boey on Tempest, I've found it to be useful at times.

5 minutes ago, Othin said:

The point of Slayer weapons is to address balance issues. Killer weapons were too weak relative to other weapons, so now there's a stronger version available.

3 more Might is quite a jump.

[bethany81707]

8 minutes ago, Othin said:

The point of Slayer weapons is to address balance issues. Killer weapons were too weak relative to other weapons, so now there's a stronger version available.

Unfortunately, the opposite is not so easy.

[Othin]

1 minute ago, Rezzy said:

The Owls may be outclassed, but using Boey on Tempest, I've found it to be useful at times.

3 more Might is quite a jump.

I guess they didn't want it to seem so close as to be redundant? If they were to buff existing Killer weapons, I think +2 Mt could have been more likely, but for a separate weapon, that seems a bit low. In particular, it'd be annoying for players wanting to put in the extra effort of seeking the rarer but better version for it to be such a small upgrade, while +3 makes it feel more worth it.

[Fruity Insanity]

So now that Slayers exist, is the Slayer sword stronger or Wo Dao? I'm still debating which one I want to give to Navarre, if and when I get them.

[Ice Dragon]

33 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

I just realized the vanilla 5* spells like Bolganone+ have 13 Might, the exact same as the Blade spells.  There's literally no reason not to run a blade spell, even if there's no team buff support.  I'm surprised it's not like the Owl spells that have only 10 Might, and those are harder to set up properly.  I wonder if this was an oversight or intentional.

The first problem was that the developers severely overestimated how much a one-point change in a skill cooldown was worth. This is why Litrblade has the same Atk as Silver weapons and why Killer weapons have so low Atk.

Litrblade's damage boost wasn't even that much of a problem until Eirika was added because it was just too much setup to get enough buffs to be worth it before then, considering the fact that Hone and Fortify skills were locked to specific characters. Eirika gave Litrblade a +10/4 buff with virtually no setup and with a single character.

The developers' biggest mistake, though, was not restricting Litrblade to infantry units when Skill Inheritance was implemented. If that boat never sailed, I don't think there would have been too much of an issue. Tharja, Linde, and Nino would still be running around as absurdly powerful nukes, but you're still basically limited to +16/4/3/3 or +16/4/4/2 instead of +30/6/6/6.

 

Honestly, I think the developers could still fix this if they're willing to go the route of offering compensation. If Litrblade is nerfed to only take into account the two highest buffs on a unit (infantry with a maximum of +12 Atk without Defiant Atk or Harsh Command shenanigans, other movement types with +18 Atk) or something similar (e.g. Litrblade+ having a maximum Atk of 23), I don't think too many players would mind receiving a few hundred orbs as compensation, and I don't think it would be too great of a hit on Nintendo's bottom line to do so (for scale, 280 orbs is 150 USD per regularly paying player because free-to-players wouldn't be paying anyways). The only problem with this is that Nintendo is a publicly traded company, which means their bottom line is ultimately more important than game balance. That said, it may still be possible to have the nerf and compensation coincide with the release of the CYL banner. The loss of sales revenue due to the compensation could likely be absorbed by a potential increase in the number of players willing to pay for a few more copies of their favorite characters, and even more so if the CYL characters have top-tier stats.

Though actually, the smart thing to do is to divide the compensation across two or three months or so. That way, the hit to the bottom line could easily be cushioned. 100 orbs per two weeks (must be redeemed within those two weeks) over the course of three months or so is 600 orbs' worth of compensation and isn't too big of an influx (excluding the Chain Challenge reward orbs, there have been ~180 free orbs in the first half of July, which is more orbs than the full months of April, May, or June, and adding 100 free orbs every half month isn't too big of a jump if they slightly lower the number of free orbs from other sources) to see a sharp downward spike in revenue, and news of the free orbs could draw in new players.

I just don't know if Nintendo has the brains or balls to take this option.

[Quintessence]

@Ice Dragon Wow that's actually a big issue there. Personally I think they'll avoid the nerf option and just add more skills/units that might neutralize the over use of blade tomes. Maybe making panic ploy more available, or add more panic skills in different fashions or just nihil-like skills that ignore enemy stat changes.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

6 minutes ago, Quintessence said:

@Ice Dragon Wow that's actually a big issue there. Personally I think they'll avoid the nerf option and just add more skills/units that might neutralize the over use of blade tomes. Maybe making panic ploy more available, or add more panic skills in different fashions or just nihil-like skills that ignore enemy stat changes.

They do exactly this for TA Raven and we all see the reaction for that

[Othin]

6 minutes ago, JSND said:

They do exactly this for TA Raven and we all see the reaction for that

The difference is that TA makes the game healthier, while blade tomes make the game less healthy.

I do think Panic Ploy was meant in part as a response to that, and we'll probably see others as well.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

9 minutes ago, Othin said:

The difference is that TA makes the game healthier, while blade tomes make the game less healthy.

I do think Panic Ploy was meant in part as a response to that, and we'll probably see others as well.

Yeah but it can be used as a reference to show how people react to nerfing

 

TA is less popular than Blades if that matters a bit

[Zeo]

It actually astounds me how many people complain about power creep with the Killer weapons being obsolete with the arrival of slayer weapons when literally NO ONE uses Killing weapons to begin with. Every character with a Killing Edge wants a Wo Dao because of the superior damage bottom line. Niles is a thing but the majority of Archers want to use Brave Bows or their Prf weapons. No one uses Axes and the few that do usually want Brave or their Prfs which leaves what? Lances? Sure there is Lukas and Catria but that's only because there is no Wo Dao equivalent in lances.

Killer Weapons are bottom tier, but then a new stronger version gets added and everyone complains? This isn't the type of game that gets buffs and nerfs. For all those people with killing edge units, you're literally just rolling for Saber instead of Karel/Athena now. So what exactly is the problem? The principle of invalidating a weapon set no one was using because it was useless in the first place?

 

Edited July 17, 2017 by Zeo

[Ice Dragon]

6 minutes ago, Quintessence said:

@Ice Dragon Wow that's actually a big issue there. Personally I think they'll avoid the nerf option and just add more skills/units that might neutralize the over use of blade tomes. Maybe making panic ploy more available, or add more panic skills in different fashions or just nihil-like skills that ignore enemy stat changes.

3 minutes ago, JSND said:

They do exactly this for TA Raven and we all see the reaction for that

The problem with adding more options like a theoretical Parity skill that ignores both combatants' buffs and debuffs is that

1. It's a purely defensive skill, and
2. It takes up a skill slot.

Running a purely defensive skill that only works for a single threat is basically asking for that unit to to killed by something else. If a map is made with some units with Parity and some units with other skills, you simply use your Litrblade unit to kill the other units and mop up the Parity units with simple weapon triangle advantage. If a map is made with all of its units having Parity, then that basically screws all of them over with one fewer skill slot and limits the amount of more interesting shenanigans the map designers could make use of.

The reason Cancel Affinity works is because

1. It's both an offensive skill and a defensive skill, and
2. The units that most want to use it have their B slot open.

The characters that would be running Cancel Affinity to the greatest effect are Brave and Firesweep archers and Hector.

Brave and Firesweep archers are meant to land a kill on their own player phase and are effectively useless on their own enemy phase, meaning Desperation, Weaponbreakers, and teleportation skills are the only viable options. None of these are essential to a build (especially for a build meant to be played by the AI), meaning Cancel Affinity is a truly viable option for the slot.

Similarly, Hector already has Quick Riposte on his weapon slot, leaving his B slot open for another skill. Ruby Sword Olivia and Triangle Adept Raudhrraven are popularly suggested builds designed in part to trivialize Hector, and Cancel Affinity not only significantly reduces the damage he receives from them, but also allows him to kill them on the counterattack.

[Falcom]

At first when I saw Slaying weapons, I immediately thought, "Wow, way to rip off killer weapons."

And only now did I realize that there was difference in might.

[Quintessence]

11 minutes ago, Zeo said:

It actually astounds me how many people complain about power creep with the Killer weapons being obsolete with the arrival of slayer weapons when literally NO ONE uses Killing weapons to begin with. Every character with a Killing Edge wants a Wo Dao because of the superior damage bottom line. Niles is a thing but the majority of Archers want to use Brave Bows or their Prf weapons. No one uses Axes and the few that do usually want Brave or their Prfs which leaves what? Lances? Sure there is Lukas and Catria but that's only because there is no Wo Dao equivalent in lances.

Killer Weapons are bottom tier, but then a new stronger version gets added and everyone complains? This isn't the type of game that gets buffs and nerfs. For all those people with killing edge units, you're literally just rolling for Saber instead of Karel/Athena now. So what exactly is the problem? The principle of invalidating a weapon set no one was using because it was useless in the first place?

 

I've seen a lot of rage regarding this, as if Killer weapons were the best of best. Not disregarding its usage here, but I feel most people are over reacting. Nonetheless I've seen a lot of Peris lately at the arena, 4+10 and 5☆s, all with LnD/Fury, Killer Lance and buffs.

10 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

The problem with adding more options like a theoretical Parity skill that ignores both combatants' buffs and debuffs is that

1. It's a purely defensive skill, and
2. It takes up a skill slot.

Running a purely defensive skill that only works for a single threat is basically asking for that unit to to killed by something else. If a map is made with some units with Parity and some units with other skills, you simply use your Litrblade unit to kill the other units and mop up the Parity units with simple weapon triangle advantage. If a map is made with all of its units having Parity, then that basically screws all of them over with one fewer skill slot and limits the amount of more interesting shenanigans the map designers could make use of.

The reason Cancel Affinity works is because

1. It's both an offensive skill and a defensive skill, and
2. The units that most want to use it have their B slot open.

The characters that would be running Cancel Affinity to the greatest effect are Brave and Firesweep archers and Hector.

Brave and Firesweep archers are meant to land a kill on their own player phase and are effectively useless on their own enemy phase, meaning Desperation, Weaponbreakers, and teleportation skills are the only viable options. None of these are essential to a build (especially for a build meant to be played by the AI), meaning Cancel Affinity is a truly viable option for the slot.

Similarly, Hector already has Quick Riposte on his weapon slot, leaving his B slot open for another skill. Ruby Sword Olivia and Triangle Adept Raudhrraven are popularly suggested builds designed in part to trivialize Hector, and Cancel Affinity not only significantly reduces the damage he receives from them, but also allows him to kill them on the counterattack.

You're right there. who doesn't want more orbs . However I do think nerf/compensation would be like them "accepting defeat".

As an additional inquire, if a unit equips both Triangle Adept and Cancel Affinity, do both of them cancel each other? Is it even possible?

[Othin]

Speaking of Slayer weapons: if Clive really does get a GHB, I wonder if he'll introduce the Slayer Lance. It'd make him feel more meaningful, skill-wise, and while the story mode shows him with a Silver Lance, the story mode has changed plenty of characters' skills.

[LuxSpes]

2 minutes ago, Zeo said:

It actually astounds me how many people complain about power creep with the Killer weapons being obsolete with the arrival of slayer weapons when literally NO ONE uses Killing weapons to begin with. Every character with a Killing Edge wants a Wo Dao because of the superior damage bottom line. Niles is a thing but the majority of Archers want to use Brave Bows or their Prf weapons. No one uses Axes and the few that do usually want Brave or their Prfs which leaves what? Lances? Sure there is Lukas and Catria but that's only because there is no Wo Dao equivalent in lances.

Killer Weapons are bottom tier, but then a new stronger version gets added and everyone complains? This isn't the type of game that gets buffs and nerfs. For all those people with killing edge units, you're literally just rolling for Saber instead of Karel/Athena now. So what exactly is the problem? The principle of invalidating a weapon set no one was using because it was useless in the first place?

 

I would still prefer using the regular Killer lance over a Wo Dao lance on my Lukas since with 47 Def, Ignis has 14 more damage than Bonfire, which equates to the +10 damage and 2 more Mt. It also doesn't cost a 5*.

I guess I'm not used to the gacha way of balancing because I find making an entire class of weapons be straight downgrades to be very iffy. Not to mention that just giving 3 more Mt to all the current Killer weapons would have made it so the units that start with those are not condemned to rely on SI to reach their full potential.

[MrSmokestack]

11 minutes ago, Quintessence said:

As an additional inquire, if a unit equips both Triangle Adept and Cancel Affinity, do both of them cancel each other? Is it even possible?

Cancel Affinity includes negating the user's own Triangle Adept in its description. Gem Weapons / Adept / Raven simply do not work at all if the wielder also has Cancel Affinity.

EDIT: Mages can't inherit CA anyway. Derp.

Edited July 17, 2017 by MrSmokestack

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

NEXT SEASON IS ETRURIAN SCUM YEAHHHHJHHHHHJJ

[MrSmokestack]

1 minute ago, JSND said:

NEXT SEASON IS ETRURIAN SCUM YEAHHHHJHHHHHJJ

LET'S GO

If only I had Triangle Adept ;____; please IS can I run Horse Emblem please pretty please

Time to put these 87 orbs to good use.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

2 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

LET'S GO

If only I had Triangle Adept ;____; please IS can I run Horse Emblem please pretty please

Time to put these 87 orbs to good use.

 

I JUST COME TO A DILLEMA BECAUSE MY MAIN CECILIA HAVE WORSE IV THAN DUPE CECILIA NO

[Ice Dragon]

6 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

Cancel Affinity includes negating the user's own Triangle Adept in its description. Gem Weapons / Adept / Raven simply do not work at all if the wielder also has Cancel Affinity.

Do you have a source somewhere for the Litrraven portion of that?

Edited July 17, 2017 by Ice Dragon

[MrSmokestack]

2 minutes ago, JSND said:

I JUST COME TO A DILLEMA BECAUSE MY MAIN CECILIA HAVE WORSE IV THAN DUPE CECILIA NO

I HAVE A +ATK -DEF CECILIA AND A +SPD -HP CECILIA

 

WHICH ONE?!

Spoiler

+Spd for all variants I assume?

@Ice Dragon

1) I edited my post because it implied that mages could inherit CA, which they can't.

2) Now that you mention it, I simply assumed CA affected enemy -Raven tomes because of the wording of CA:

If affinity disadvantage exists, weapon triangle affinity granted by foe's skills is reversed.

Edited July 17, 2017 by MrSmokestack

[Quintessence]

9 minutes ago, JSND said:

NEXT SEASON IS ETRURIAN SCUM YEAHHHHJHHHHHJJ

BEHOLD THE RIDE OF THE VALKYRIE!

wait she's not an etrurian scum!

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

8 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

I HAVE A +ATK -DEF CECILIA AND A +SPD -HP CECILIA

 

WHICH ONE?!

  Hide contents

+Spd for all variants I assume?

 

Honestly i'm not sure what B/B i want to invest in. -RES makes her more Reinhardt vulnerable, while -DEF is kinda eh since i used her as an Archer face tank in some stuff

 

My built Cecilia is -HP +RES while my reserve 3* is Neutral and +SPD -HP

 

Of well the choice is obvious once you put it like that

 

@Quintessence She's not THE Etrurian Scum. She's still an Etrurian Scum though!

Edited July 17, 2017 by JSND