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8 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Infernal Ashnard had a zero-cooldown Dragon Fang, so we've already seen how they function. The only real issue is balancing it because any skills that boost Special damage could easily break it.

Yeah, the game's mechanics support it just fine, it'd just be odd to have something like that in the player's hands. Probably easier to balance if it didn't deal damage, but even in that case, it'd still have the weird situation of functioning more like a passive skill and ignoring all the effects like Guard and Pulse Smoke that normally interact with specials.

It's worth noting that we've seen a few abilities that function like an always-on special, such as Brave Alm's Scendscale and Legendary Alm's Lunar Arc. They just aren't in the actual special slot and don't count as specials.

Edited by Othin
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18 minutes ago, Othin said:

it'd still have the weird situation of functioning more like a passive skill and ignoring all the effects like Guard and Pulse Smoke that normally interact with specials.

You can almost already do that. Almost.

Any build with a 1-cooldown Special, Special Spiral, and Time's Pulse is half immune to Guard, is fully immune to Pulse Smoke, is fully immune to Pulse Tie, and protects all of the other units on your team from being affected by Pulse Tie if they have the lowest HP. So basically Lysithea if you replace her B skill with Special Spiral.

Edited by Ice Dragon
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1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

You can almost already do that. Almost.

Any build with a 1-cooldown Special, Special Spiral, and Time's Pulse is half immune to Guard, is fully immune to Pulse Smoke, is fully immune to Pulse Tie, and protects all of the other units on your team from being affected by Pulse Tie. So basically Lysithea if you replace her B skill with Special Spiral.

I don't think fully immune is quite accurate. Pulse Smoke/Tie can at least set the skill's cooldown back to 1 for the remainder of the phase, and then Guard effects can keep it there.

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49 minutes ago, Othin said:

I don't think fully immune is quite accurate. Pulse Smoke/Tie can at least set the skill's cooldown back to 1 for the remainder of the phase, and then Guard effects can keep it there.

Pulse Smoke adds 1 to the cooldown, but Special Spiral subtracts 2. I assume Special cooldown works the same as HP and additions and subtractions are simultaneous, meaning that the cooldown is reduced by 1 after combat, making it zero for the next round of combat.

Assuming the unit in question is a player-phase unit, Pulse Tie is hard countered by Time's Pulse since at the beginning of the unit's next player phase, its cooldown is immediately lowered back to zero.

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4 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Pulse Smoke adds 1 to the cooldown, but Special Spiral subtracts 2. I assume Special cooldown works the same as HP and additions and subtractions are simultaneous, meaning that the cooldown is reduced by 1 after combat, making it zero for the next round of combat.

Assuming the unit in question is a player-phase unit, Pulse Tie is hard countered by Time's Pulse since at the beginning of the unit's next player phase, its cooldown is immediately lowered back to zero.

I'm not talking about using Pulse Smoke in combat with the unit in question, I'm talking about using it on a nearby unit.

Like I said, it gets corrected on the unit's next phase when Time's Pulse triggers, but Pulse Smoke/Tie still make it possible to de-charge the special briefly, until that point. It may not be especially relevant, but it does still have an effect.

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1 minute ago, Othin said:

I'm not talking about using Pulse Smoke in combat with the unit in question, I'm talking about using it on a nearby unit.

I'm making the assumption that the unit is under your control and not the AI's control and is a player-phase unit. If you get splashed by Pulse Smoke on player phase, that's almost entirely your own fault (since you have to attack into the Pulse Smoke unit and fail to kill it), and if you get splashed by Pulse Smoke on enemy phase, it'll get fixed by the unit's next round of combat.

 

4 minutes ago, Othin said:

Like I said, it gets corrected on the unit's next phase when Time's Pulse triggers, but Pulse Smoke/Tie still make it possible to de-charge the special briefly, until that point. It may not be especially relevant, but it does still have an effect.

It makes no functional difference unless you mess up and let yourself be attacked on enemy phase, so Pulse Tie's effect simply doesn't matter. It doesn't functionally change the state of the board, and there are no other skill effects that it can interact with that can make the outcome different from if nothing had happened in the first place (i.e. there are no skills yet that activate an effect upon a unit's Special cooldown being reversed where getting your cooldown increased and then decreased would end up being different than nothing happening).

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1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm making the assumption that the unit is under your control and not the AI's control and is a player-phase unit. If you get splashed by Pulse Smoke on player phase, that's almost entirely your own fault (since you have to attack into the Pulse Smoke unit and fail to kill it), and if you get splashed by Pulse Smoke on enemy phase, it'll get fixed by the unit's next round of combat.

 

It makes no functional difference unless you mess up and let yourself be attacked on enemy phase, so Pulse Tie's effect simply doesn't matter. It doesn't functionally change the state of the board, and there are no other skill effects that it can interact with that can make the outcome different from if nothing had happened in the first place (i.e. there are no skills yet that activate an effect upon a unit's Special cooldown being reversed where getting your cooldown increased and then decreased would end up being different than nothing happening).

"Virtually no functional difference if the unit is under control of a competent player" is still different from "completely immune".

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I feel sort of conflicted right now. Echidna became +10 today, so I don't really need to hope for or focus on getting copies of her or reserving feathers for her, but because of poor life decisions that resulted in a 5* big sister, 5* pega-pony princess, and +1 Setsuna among other things I am under 400k feathers which is a range I would rather not be in. So, I don't really want to continue immediately with another +10 merge project who probably should be either Brunnya or Kronya at this point and I don't even want to 5* anyone for Galeforce or a different axe for Echidna. Perhaps I will get three random Meisterhardts so he can finally be +10 and be my first 5*-only +10 unit.

Also, because resplendent Eirika is a ljósálfr, a light fairy or light faerie, can she be called Faeirika? Yes, I know I am stupid.

Edited by Kaden
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Well, I've got a bit of an unexpected dilemma. I free-pulled a +Atk Midori and now I have to decide whether to use that one as the new base over my current +Spd one. Anybody got an idea here?

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7 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Well, I've got a bit of an unexpected dilemma. I free-pulled a +Atk Midori and now I have to decide whether to use that one as the new base over my current +Spd one. Anybody got an idea here?

Atk is her best stat and has a superboon, while her Spd isn't great. I've never gotten Midori, but Atk sounds preferable to me.

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37 minutes ago, Othin said:

Atk is her best stat and has a superboon, while her Spd isn't great. I've never gotten Midori, but Atk sounds preferable to me.

Mine hit 35 Spd with a Spd boon and Spd refine, so I thought maybe something could be done with that, but you might be right if that Atk superboon is thing though.

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5 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Mine hit 35 Spd with a Spd boon and Spd refine, so I thought maybe something could be done with that, but you might be right if that Atk superboon is thing though.

Looks like Midori has 41 Atk normally and goes up to 45 with the superboon, so with Spendthrift Bow's effect active she goes up to 64 effective Atk in combat. 69 with Close Foil in effect as well.

What are you planning on doing with the extra one? Close Foil seems like pretty great fodder, and Rally Atk/Def+ and Spendthrift Bow could also be useful.

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11 minutes ago, Othin said:

Looks like Midori has 41 Atk normally and goes up to 45 with the superboon, so with Spendthrift Bow's effect active she goes up to 64 effective Atk in combat. 69 with Close Foil in effect as well.

What are you planning on doing with the extra one? Close Foil seems like pretty great fodder, and Rally Atk/Def+ and Spendthrift Bow could also be useful.

I'm merging. I like Midori because she's cute and she's Kaze's daughter. And I'm a big Kaze fan. So I guess I'll go with +Atk here.

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34 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I'm merging. I like Midori because she's cute and she's Kaze's daughter. And I'm a big Kaze fan. So I guess I'll go with +Atk here.

Makes sense.

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honestly, i would have kept the +atk Midori. and foddered off the other one. 
Kaze (Or Frederick) would have loved that Close Foil,  - or if there is an archer you want to build one day, poof. best bow and best archer a skill in the game. (Unless you want to +10 midori. then that's  horse of a different colour).

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4 minutes ago, daisy jane said:

Kaze (Or Frederick) would have loved that Close Foil,  - or if there is an archer you want to build one day, poof.

Frederick can't use Close Foil... But Rolf can, for example... And he can also use the bow Midori has.

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Isn't Close Counter better than Close Foil? And regardless, Kaze doesn't want to go against physical units, which most melee units are. His Def is bad.

Edited by Anacybele
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6 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Isn't Close Counter better than Close Foil?

Close Counter's advantage is being able to counter dragons, while Close Foil's advantage is better Atk/Def against any physical weapons. To my understanding, Distant Ward/Foil are considered pretty dicey relative to Distant Counter since you're giving up on a bunch of relevant ranged attacks either way, but Close Foil is actually quite good since melee attacks are skewed so heavily towards physical. And dragons are especially effective against ranged units anyway. So Close Foil is the one skill from the Foil/Ward series that seems like it might be generally preferable to its Counter counterpart.

Edited by Othin
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If I could get close foil, I'd slap it on my Takumi so fast. Sure, he can't counter dragons anymore, but he shouldn't be doing that anyway with his res.

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2 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

If I could get close foil, I'd slap it on my Takumi so fast. Sure, he can't counter dragons anymore, but he shouldn't be doing that anyway with his res.

this pretty much. I slap close foil on ranged units with high def and low res. they have no business fighting dragons in the first place. Close Counter is decent on ranged units that have mixed bulk like Norne.  Close Foil is also very decent on units that have lowish Def, it patches that up. I would arguably say that Close Foil is miles ahead then Close Counter in terms of usefulness. Close Counter really was only viable on a selected few units.

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36 minutes ago, Othin said:

Close Counter's advantage is being able to counter dragons, while Close Foil's advantage is better Atk/Def against any physical weapons. To my understanding, Distant Ward/Foil are considered pretty dicey relative to Distant Counter since you're giving up on a bunch of relevant ranged attacks either way, but Close Foil is actually quite good since melee attacks are skewed so heavily towards physical. And dragons are especially effective against ranged units anyway. So Close Foil is the one skill from the Foil/Ward series that seems like it might be generally preferable to its Counter counterpart.

That's what I figured. But like I said, Kaze's Def is awful, so he would not want it at all. Summer Frederick could use it, but that would mean replacing Swift Sparrow 3.

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For Close Foil versus Close Counter, it depends on how often you often see dragons and whether your ranged unit is a mixed tank/Counter-Vantage unit or a Def tank.

I always see a few dragons in PvE, and although I do not see Sothis that often anymore, I do see DW!F!Corrin and DB!M!Corrin from time to time in Aether Raids and PvP, so I personally lean towards Close Counter.

I also prefer mixed tanks over dedicated Def tanks or Res tanks since they have more flexibility. While Midori leans toward Def tank, players can balance out her bulk with Res Refinement and Mirror Stance Sacred Seal (or Atk/Res Solo in the future). She is no CE!Chrom, but she is pretty close in terms of combat performance; they got the same Atk when they have an Atk Asset (45 Atk for both), and Spendthrift Bow (effectively 19 Mt) is not too far behind compared to Randgriđr (effectively 23 Mt). For Counter-Vantage units, I would stick with Close Counter for reliability.

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21 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

That's what I figured. But like I said, Kaze's Def is awful, so he would not want it at all. Summer Frederick could use it, but that would mean replacing Swift Sparrow 3.

Makes sense. Whatever works.

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