Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[Diovani Bressan]

9 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

I have one thought about Resplendent Nino: why does she still have a Red tome?
She's had Iris's Tome for a while now, shouldn't she have that instead?

 

Yeah. Would be nice if they update these heroes that got their Prf in updates to be holding their Prfs Weapons in the Resplendent Art. The red tome is still a nice touch from her original Blazing Blade art.

Also... Caeda doesn't have a Wing Sword in her Resplendent...

[Fabulously Olivier]

16 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

I have one thought about Resplendent Nino: why does she still have a Red tome?
She's had Iris's Tome for a while now, shouldn't she have that instead?

Otherwise nice art. Stat boost isn't necessary by any means, but it is welcome, and while I +10ed her already I'm sure someone will want Gronnblade at some point.

They've been really inconsistent about that. So many Resplendent units depict the original weapon despite the unit having a prf that would look way better.

 

Then you have Resplendent Leif who redesigned his prf weapon to more closely match his new look. More of that, please. Make that the new standard.

[Ice Dragon]

4 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Yeah... I shudder to think of what she'll be like with bonus stats (essentially unbeatable for all but the whaliest of whales).

Enemies don't get bonus stats.

Both versions of Idunn give zero fucks about Edelgard. Due to Edelgard's low Spd, you can also give any version of Micaiah Windsweep and take care of her that way. Or really anyone with Windsweep and a beast- or armor-effective weapon as long as you have enough space to kill her before you get backed into a corner.

 

1 hour ago, XRay said:

I use Firesweepers to handle problematic units, although they might not be viable depending on where you want to score.

If you're aiming for Tier 20, it should be no problem fitting in a Firesweeper, assuming you have about 25-30 merges across your team and two Legendaries (depending on your stat totals and skill SP). Tier 20.5 might require 30-35 merges.

[Fabulously Olivier]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Enemies don't get bonus stats.

Both versions of Idunn give zero fucks about Edelgard. Due to Edelgard's low Spd, you can also give any version of Micaiah Windsweep and take care of her that way. Or really anyone with Windsweep and a beast- or armor-effective weapon as long as you have enough space to kill her before you get backed into a corner.

 

If you're aiming for Tier 20, it should be no problem fitting in a Firesweeper, assuming you have about 25-30 merges across your team and two Legendaries (depending on your stat totals and skill SP). Tier 20.5 might require 30-35 merges.

It should be no problem, assuming you have all of these really expensive things most people don't have. There's a reason I rarely roll on Legendary/Mythic banners. Their rates are genuinely awful, their lack of off-focus results in potentially more limited fodder, and they lack the spark (and new currency system) that makes NH banners so much more appealing. The only time I touch them is when I want every unit of multiple colors.

 

And bearing in mind this is just to counter one singular overpowered unit, otherwise they will faceroll your entire team without any support from their team.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Fabulously Olivier

[Tybrosion]

1 hour ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

And bearing in mind this is just to counter one singular overpowered unit, otherwise they will faceroll your entire team without any support from their team.

I encountered a team of both Krises (female even had Ruptured Sky), Katarina and Norne (with the usual Spendthrift setup) in Arena Assault and I’m pretty sure they were all +10.

My +0 -Atk Hegegard (default kit + Swap, seal was Atk/Def Solo 3) took that entire team out by herself with minimal effort (the only support she got was Fortify Beasts from Reyson on turn 1).

I felt like complete filth afterwards. Good Lord, has Edelgard truly achieved peak toxicity this time. And all of the Micaiahs and Idunns of the world can’t do shit to Hegegard either if she has Svalinn Shield in the A slot (and there will be assholes who will do that even if their only reason for doing so is to be an asshole).

[XRay]

3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Enemies don't get bonus stats.

Both versions of Idunn give zero fucks about Edelgard. Due to Edelgard's low Spd, you can also give any version of Micaiah Windsweep and take care of her that way. Or really anyone with Windsweep and a beast- or armor-effective weapon as long as you have enough space to kill her before you get backed into a corner.

 

If you're aiming for Tier 20, it should be no problem fitting in a Firesweeper, assuming you have about 25-30 merges across your team and two Legendaries (depending on your stat totals and skill SP). Tier 20.5 might require 30-35 merges.

I am in 19.5 using Firesweep with full merges. Not sure about 20 though, since staying seems like it requires a huge score increase from where I am at, although I do have some of the lowest BST units.

[Sil/phire]

 

13 hours ago, Naoshi said:

We probably will see her often once she is a bonus unit.

I feel we will see something else more broken show up later that will probably get voted higher, given how much they're pushing power lately. I'm pretty shocked at the sharp power jump from the last half dozen or so sparkable banners to this one.

 

[Fabulously Olivier]

They're burning the candle at both ends. By releasing game breaking units with huge BST and multiple paragraph-long effects, they make the game more exhausting and overly complex. It's not even power creep at this point. Creep implies gradual. What we've been seeing lately is power spike, and then power spike from that power spike.

 

Edelgard has fourteen effects in her base kit to take into account. FOURTEEN. Her weapon has SIX effects. Her B skill has FOUR. And they basically equate to being always active. We have a unit who gets free DC, can't be doubled, accelerates their special trigger, gains +8 atk, +6 def, +6 res, charges their specials twice as fast, prevents your specials, and has free damage reduction with no stat comparison. And if you somehow manage to do damage to that, she just heals, and then attacks you again with free Galeforce. All of these effects are contingent on her having more than 25% health, and all of these effects help her maintain health. So she basically just gets every beneficial effect imaginable for existing.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Fabulously Olivier

[Ice Dragon]

2 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

It should be no problem, assuming you have all of these really expensive things most people don't have. There's a reason I rarely roll on Legendary/Mythic banners. Their rates are genuinely awful, their lack of off-focus results in potentially more limited fodder, and they lack the spark (and new currency system) that makes NH banners so much more appealing. The only time I touch them is when I want every unit of multiple colors.

It's honestly neither hard nor expensive to get two Legendary Heroes for each element, so if you choose to forgo Legendary Hero banners, that's entirely on you.

While fodder skills are less varied on Legendary Hero banners than on standard banners, the expected value per orb is higher as long as you're pulling for at least 2 characters from a single color. Two out of 3 on a Legendary Hero banner is a 5.3% chance per pull of getting something you want. In comparison, if the standard 5-star pool consists 50% of characters you can make use of, you only have a 4.5% chance per pull of getting something you want from a 3-character banner or only a 3.8% chance per pull of getting something you want from a 4-character banner.

In order to get the same odds of pulling something you want from a Legendary Hero banner with only 2 out of 3 characters of a color being "acceptable", you'd need 78% of the standard 5-star pool being "acceptable" on a 3-character banner or 102% of the standard 5-star pool being "acceptable" on a 4-character banner.

Heck, Legendary Hero banners even have better odds for pulling individual focus characters than 4-character standard banners with Legendary Hero banners at 2.7% and 4-character standard banners at 2.3%. The only thing making it worth pulling on new-character banners in terms of pure orb efficiency (i.e. when you're not trying to specifically pull for one thing and only that one thing) is the spark.

 

1 hour ago, Tybrosion said:

And all of the Micaiahs and Idunns of the world can’t do shit to Hegegard either if she has Svalinn Shield in the A slot (and there will be assholes who will do that even if their only reason for doing so is to be an asshole).

You're less likely to run into Svalinn Shield the higher you are in the Arena, so it should be less of a concern there, and it should be easier to prepare more tailored counters in lower tiers in case of running into her with that build.

Aether Raids already forces you to deal with everything under the sun, and that's what 5 teams and 5 escape ladders are for, though I do think they should raise the limit for both.

 

1 minute ago, XRay said:

I am in 19.5 using Firesweep with full merges. Not sure about 20 though, since staying seems like it requires a huge score increase from where I am at, although I do have some of the lowest BST units.

The cutoff this last season between Tiers 20 and 20.5 was about 750 per match.

+10 Idunn, +10 Brave Hector, +0 Legendary Sigurd, and +10 Legendary Lucina got me in 20.5 (742-752 per match) whereas replacing Lucina with a +10 Legendary Gunnthra would have kept me in 20 (740-750). I run Reposition on all units unless they have an exclusive Assist, and Lucina and Gunnthra have Moonbow instead of Aether.

[Othin]

14 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

It's honestly neither hard nor expensive to get two Legendary Heroes for each element, so if you choose to forgo Legendary Hero banners, that's entirely on you.

If those legendary heroes aren't merged, you've got a max of 20 merges on your team. I don't think that's worthwhile compared to merged common units.

[Sunwoo]

I prefer to handicap myself and not merge things, relying solely on dragon flowers, prime fodder, and good natures. Honestly, it still works because I'm not interested in being TOP TIER EVERYTHING and I have beaten fallen Edelgard by being creative (and/or using Brave Eliwood). But fallen Edelgard existing does require me to build more fallen Edelgard counters and to bring one along whenever I see her ugly mug.

But in general I don't think any single unit needs to have six effects on their fucking weapon. Or a personal skill that combines more than three skills. How was this okay? I feel bad for characters who got their refine super early, like Roy or Ephraim or Takumi or Eldigan, who have like TWO effects on their weapon. Maybe three if you squint. And it's not like Roy or Ephraim are unpopular either, maybe they're not as popular as Edelgard /now/ but they're not nobodies. We'll never actually know if characters like Ephraim or Ike or Lucina or Lyn are more popular than Edelgard amongst the fanbase because we can't put them in a fair popularity contest divorced from their performance as a unit in Heroes.

But what is clear is that IS created Fallen Edelgard, decided that this abomination was "too strong" to be allowed to appear as a randomly generated enemy but still gave it the green light to be released into the game. I'm honestly not sure why fallen Dimitri has the same condition, he doesn't have any form of DC on his base kit and can still be deleted with a strong mage. Edelgard's just built to be obnoxious in every way, shape or form. The obvious answer is for her to not have gotten some of her skills. She doesn't need damage reduction or the breath of life effect. Or maybe make some of her skills work only in the player's hands. But nope, IS got greedy and decided to make her broken as fuck so people will lose their shit and spend money on her. Or something. I don't know.

[Ice Dragon]

49 minutes ago, Othin said:

If those legendary heroes aren't merged, you've got a max of 20 merges on your team. I don't think that's worthwhile compared to merged common units.

Sure, then use common units.

A team with 40 merges and no Legendary Heroes will score the same as a team with 32 merges and 2 Legendary Heroes, assuming all else equal, so you can definitely get to Tier 20.5 using no Legendary Heroes at all.

My calculations including Legendary Heroes is due to them being in the context of my own experience (and being too lazy at the time to convert the numbers into how many merges you need without Legendary Heroes) and due to the fact that it really isn't hard to merge up Legendary Heroes a few times if you're willing to pass up on other banners. Additionally, because Legendary Heroes regularly show up as bonus units, you won't need to worry as much about having a bonus unit each season (as you'd otherwise often need to use a brand new unit with low merges or an old unit that may need a lot of feathers to merge up just for 2 weeks), which also makes pulling on Legendary Hero banners more worthwhile.

 

29 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

She doesn't need damage reduction or the breath of life effect.

She doesn't have damage reduction, unless you're counting the -6 Atk/Def penalty on her weapon, which is basically just Blackfire Breath without the bonus nullification.

The skills on Edelgard's default set are very cohesive, though. After-combat recovery is there to keep Ideal active. Galeforce counteracts Wary Fighter, effectively giving both her and her opponent a guaranteed follow-up on her turn and preventing follow-ups from both sides on her enemy phase. Slaying effect and Special Fighter allows her to guarantee Bonfire on her second attack when she initiates or on her counterattack if the opponent initiates if the opponent can't block her Special charge rate bonus.

The effects that can be removed without changing the way she's intended to be used are the stat penalty on her weapon, the after-combat recovery, and reducing her opponent's Special charge rate. You can also technically remove either the Slaying effect or the Special charge rate bonus and replace her Special with either Glimmer or Moonbow, but that's basically it.

 

Personally, I think they should have just limited some of her effects to player control only, like Legendary Leaf and units that rely on Ally Supports.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Ice Dragon

[Othin]

4 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

She doesn't have damage reduction, unless you're counting the -6 Atk/Def penalty on her weapon, which is basically just Blackfire Breath without the bonus nullification.

The skills on Edelgard's default set are very cohesive, though. After-combat recovery is there to keep Ideal active. Galeforce counteracts Wary Fighter, effectively giving both her and her opponent a guaranteed follow-up on her turn and preventing follow-ups from both sides on her enemy phase. Slaying effect and Special Fighter allows her to guarantee Bonfire on her second attack when she initiates or on her counterattack if the opponent initiates if the opponent can't block her Special charge rate bonus.

The effects that can be removed without changing the way she's intended to be used are the stat penalty on her weapon, the after-combat recovery, and reducing her opponent's Special charge rate. You can also technically remove either the Slaying effect or the Special charge rate bonus and replace her Special with either Glimmer or Moonbow, but that's basically it.

 

Personally, I think they should have just limited some of her effects to player control only, like Legendary Leaf and units that rely on Ally Supports.

Edelgard's B skill's second paragraph is 40% damage reduction on her first hit taken each phase.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Othin

[Tybrosion]

49 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

I'm honestly not sure why fallen Dimitri has the same condition, he doesn't have any form of DC on his base kit and can still be deleted with a strong mage.

I assume Odd Tempest (coupled with the fact he has Canto) was the reason. But even with Dimitri’s extra range, he’d still be easier to regularly take out than Shinon or Duessel.

The Fell Morgans, meanwhile, will start showing up starting June 7th and will also probably be worse to deal with compared to boar Dimitri.

[Sunwoo]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

She doesn't have damage reduction, unless you're counting the -6 Atk/Def penalty on her weapon, which is basically just Blackfire Breath without the bonus nullification.

I was counting "during unit's first combat in player phase or enemy phase, at start of combat, if unit's HP > or equal to 25% while transformed, reduces damage from foe's first attack by 40%" as damage reduction. Sure, it's only the first attack under specific conditions, but those conditions aren't hard to achieve. Fallen Edelgard would have to be really hampered by her teammates or you'd have to 1-turn blitz her on turn 1 to avoid it. And I might have less issue with that if Edelgard didn't hit so hard that there's a good chance she's going to kill my counter to her if she survives.

 

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

The skills on Edelgard's default set are very cohesive, though. After-combat recovery is there to keep Ideal active. Galeforce counteracts Wary Fighter, effectively giving both her and her opponent a guaranteed follow-up on her turn and preventing follow-ups from both sides on her enemy phase. Slaying effect and Special Fighter allows her to guarantee Bonfire on her second attack when she initiates or on her counterattack if the opponent initiates if the opponent can't block her Special charge rate bonus.

The effects that can be removed without changing the way she's intended to be used are the stat penalty on her weapon, the after-combat recovery, and reducing her opponent's Special charge rate. You can also technically remove either the Slaying effect or the Special charge rate bonus and replace her Special with either Glimmer or Moonbow, but that's basically it.

Her skillset is cohesive, yes, but it's still too bonkers. A player doesn't have to put in any effort to make her work, other than choosing who her teammates are. Instead of giving her after-combat recovery to make Ideal still work, let the player choose whether they want to replace ideal for something less restrictive or slap a mystic boost skill/seal on her if they want to keep it. If they want her to have Galeforce, let them give it to her instead of her being able to run it alongside a hard-hitting special. Legendary Edelgard, the only other unit who can do the same thing, has a more restrictive condition to trigger her effect, compared to Fallen Edelgard's condition of "basically exist".

It's true that a lot of the units released nowadays have very cohesive kits and weapons that have way too much stuff on it, but even so a lot of them still have obvious weaknesses. Guinevere has a very cohesive skillset and is difficult to kill with magic, but with her loldefense she can be killed with physical attacks. Shinon is a ridiculous monster, but his most annoying effects all shut down if he's next to someone. All the Dimitris have terrible res and only one of them has innate DC. Brave Edelgard dies super easily to Midori (who I know is another 5-star locked rare unit) and at least has a color weakness. In Fallen Edelgard's case, as long as she's able to transform first she doesn't care if she's next to another unit and is only weak to raven tomes ... who may or may not be able to survive her counterattack anyway because aside from Lyon's two alts they're all basically day 1 units and the Robins have a shitty ass refine that doesn't help them in combat one bit.

The easiest solution was to just make Edelgard's skills work only in the player's hands, like you said, but I'm pretty sure that boat has already sailed. Don't think they can nerf her retroactively now that she's in the game and advertised to be this way.

EDIT: I forgot about Duessel, the other annoying-as-fuck character lol. He's dealt with similarly to Shinon though, by having him next to someone so similar story there I guess.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Sunwoo

[XRay]

For Arena, Chrom: Crowned Exalt and Lucina: Glorious Archer are far more problematic in my opinion, since they have huge threat ranges and they are not easily predictable. Edelgard: Hegemon Husk and Duessel can be easily kited since they are melee units, and two rounds with a Firesweeper will weaken them so severely that a bonus unit or whoever else a player uses should have no trouble finishing them off.

[Ice Dragon]

2 hours ago, Othin said:

Edelgard's B skill's second paragraph is 40% damage reduction on her first hit taken each phase.

1 hour ago, Sunwoo said:

I was counting "during unit's first combat in player phase or enemy phase, at start of combat, if unit's HP > or equal to 25% while transformed, reduces damage from foe's first attack by 40%" as damage reduction.

Oh, right. The last sentence. I keep forgetting that exists.

 

1 hour ago, Sunwoo said:

Shinon is a ridiculous monster, but his most annoying effects all shut down if he's next to someone.

EDIT: I forgot about Duessel, the other annoying-as-fuck character lol. He's dealt with similarly to Shinon though, by having him next to someone so similar story there I guess.

My biggest problem with Duessel, and Shinon to a lesser extent, is that Solo is way too easy for the AI to keep active and is always active if the unit is the last unit alive, which is extremely likely when you have someone as bulky as Duessel.

 

54 minutes ago, XRay said:

For Arena, Chrom: Crowned Exalt and Lucina: Glorious Archer are far more problematic in my opinion, since they have huge threat ranges and they are not easily predictable.

Threat ranges mean nothing in the face of a good enough tank.

[Sunwoo]

54 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

My biggest problem with Duessel, and Shinon to a lesser extent, is that Solo is way too easy for the AI to keep active and is always active if the unit is the last unit alive, which is extremely likely when you have someone as bulky as Duessel.

I don't disagree with this. I'd be perfectly happy if Shinon and Duessel were given the boot in appearing as randomly generated enemies because they are still annoying as fuck.

[XRay]

39 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Threat ranges mean nothing in the face of a good enough tank.

I guess it is due to play style differences, but I rarely find combat performance to be an issue. If the enemy cannot get to you, or let alone retaliate at all, their combat performance means nothing. And it is also harder to build a good tank in my opinion, or at least make them good enough while still score well. You can cripple a Firesweepers' stats with Duel skills and they can still do their job with Poison Strike and Fatal Smoke, and those skills still score well. In contrast, if you pick a tank with a decent Weapon like Nowi, Duel skills are still pretty crippling for performance and the trade off between score and performance is much more pronounced.

[Some Jerk]

I told myself that if I ended up giving Atk/Def Menace to a flier, they would be getting Wyvern Flight to abuse with it.

Before this, I told myself that if I did end up building another Wyvern Flight project, it would end up being a speedtank with Life and Death 4.

The inheritor in this case also had a Candy Cane, which I gave to them ages ago and promptly forgot about because Courtly Candle's DR effect is better on a slow lance tank than the Guard effect, but now that they're a speedtank it's suddenly usable.

...It has snowballed into something I'm not quite sure I comprehend.

[Flying Shogi]

On 5/6/2021 at 3:08 AM, Ice Dragon said:

You cannot choose which reserve box to move units into and have to go into manage reserves if you want to move them to a different box.

You actually can designate which reserve box to move your units into by going to 仲間 -> 兵舎の整理 -> 兵舎、予備兵舎の整理. After you've confirmed your unit selection, you'll be taken to a screen that gives you the option to pick which reserve box you want to put them in straight from the main barracks in one go.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Flying Shogi

[Ice Dragon]

23 minutes ago, Flying Shogi said:

You actually can designate which reserve box to move your units into by going to 仲間 -> 兵舎の整理 -> 兵舎、予備兵舎の整理. After you've confirmed your unit selection, you'll be taken to a screen that gives you the option to pick which reserve box you want to put them in straight from the main barracks in one go.

I didn't realize you could access your main barracks through Manage Groups, but that then begs the question:

Why the fuck does the Move to Reserves option exist at all if Manage Groups does literally everything it can do, but better? Sure, it took Pokémon like 2 decades to fix the same issue, but that's no excuse to be making the exact same dumb mistake.

[Diovani Bressan]

2 hours ago, Some Jerk said:

I told myself that if I ended up giving Atk/Def Menace to a flier, they would be getting Wyvern Flight to abuse with it.

Before this, I told myself that if I did end up building another Wyvern Flight project, it would end up being a speedtank with Life and Death 4.

The inheritor in this case also had a Candy Cane, which I gave to them ages ago and promptly forgot about because Courtly Candle's DR effect is better on a slow lance tank than the Guard effect, but now that they're a speedtank it's suddenly usable.

...It has snowballed into something I'm not quite sure I comprehend.

Oh... that's actually... pretty cool. 

It's kinda weird to see an Eldigan that fast, but it is something that works. He can easily get Atk/Def-7 on foe because of his high Def (even with LnD), while also having Guard Effect thanks to the Candy Cane. His Wyvern Flight can target foes with up 51 Spd, and that can be improved if you run Spd buffers/debuffers on the team.

I can't wait to see him in action!

[Fabulously Olivier]

After running the calculator and finding that most of Fedelgard's alleged counters get absolutely crushed by her under neutral conditions, I canceled my FEH pass and I intend to quit playing. This new trend of units with thesis-length skills, the most recent of which is almost unbeatable, is absolutely dire.

 

I give the game 6 months until it introduces a Vault of Heaven system for basic arenas in an attempt to salvage what is left of its casual scene. 2 years until it enters maintenance mode, optimistically. I hope the money made on this banner is worth it.

Edited May 13, 2021 by Fabulously Olivier

[Naoshi]

It looks to me that IS wants to make the most money this year as if it will be the last year of heroes.

Edit:
Every since the start of this year, we have been getting bigger powercreep.
Jan: Seiros
Feb: Claude
March: H!Myrrh
April: L!Sigurd
May: F!Eldelgard

True Seiros might not be that much of threat but thanks to her the one turn trap on defense exist.

Edited May 13, 2021 by Naoshi