Jump to content

Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links


eclipse

Recommended Posts

33 minutes ago, XRay said:

If you give Nailah Windsweep, that could possibly work since she has Glare to slow Edelgard: Hegemon Husk down, but that is just more expensive and less effective than a Firesweep archer in my opinion.

@defensedefumer

I wouldn't rely on a physical attacking Sweeper to deal with Edelgard unless they have extremely high damage output or are named Byleth.

The most common Edelgard build is her default skills plus Mystic Boost. Her default Ideal skill is nearly impossible to fully turn off due to Armored Stride giving her a nearly permanent bonus, meaning she'll always have at least +7 Def on top of her already high base Def. Mystic Boost means that if you can't deal more than 14 HP worth of damage to her in one round of combat, it'll be fully healed up after combat, making it much harder to chip at her HP.

Edited by Ice Dragon
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 77k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Vaximillian

    4980

  • Anacybele

    3374

  • Ice Dragon

    3119

  • Othin

    2728

In AR, my ways to deal with Edelgard is by using Young Merric or my own Edelgard.

In Arena, I will try NFU Young Marth and hope he survives her in the first combat so he is able to kill her in the 2nd combat with Vantage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

@defensedefumer

I wouldn't rely on a physical attacking Sweeper to deal with Edelgard unless they have extremely high damage output or are named Byleth.

The most common Edelgard build is her default skills plus Mystic Boost. Her default Ideal skill is nearly impossible to fully turn off due to Armored Stride giving her a nearly permanent bonus, meaning she'll always have at least +7 Def on top of her already high base Def. Mystic Boost means that if you can't deal more than 14 HP worth of damage to her in one round of combat, it'll be fully healed up after combat, making it much harder to chip at her HP.

Right now, I'm open to ANY strategy to beat Fallen Edelgard.

Using Fallen Edelgard to beat Fallen Edelgard doesn't count. 🙂

Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, defensedefumer said:

Right now, I'm open to ANY strategy to beat Fallen Edelgard.

Using Fallen Edelgard to beat Fallen Edelgard doesn't count. 🙂

Either version of Idunn with Vengeful Fighter has little trouble dealing with Edelgard due to Idunn having a fairly substantial Spd advantage and effective damage, allowing you to kill her before she can hit you with a Bonfire.

Any version of Byleth running Windsweep is also pretty reliable due to Ruptured Sky's damage and Creator Sword turning off most of Edelgard's more annoying effects (Sun's Percussors only turns off Wary Fighter, so you're going to be stuck unable to actually charge Ruptured Sky, but it targets her weaker Res stat).

You can also use Spring Fir, vanilla Micaiah, Ishtar, or Legendary Lilina, all with Windsweep, though they might require two rounds of combat, so you'll want dancer support.

Genny can Gravity stall and has a massive Atk stat with her refined Springtime Staff. Springtime Staff's refine effect also allows you to keep the cheap Atk/Res Push (Atk/Res Push 3 can be gotten from 4-star Brady) active indefinitely with its passive healing. (Atk/Res Push Sacred Seal when?)

If you're going to be using vanilla Firesweep, you should ideally be running Null Follow-Up and Flashing Blade and stack as much Atk as you possibly can.

Edited by Ice Dragon
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, defensedefumer said:

Right now, I'm open to ANY strategy to beat Fallen Edelgard.

Using Fallen Edelgard to beat Fallen Edelgard doesn't count. 🙂

For Arena Assault, the cheapest way to do it is to build a lot of staff Firesweepers with Pain. The most significant spending would be 20,000 Feathers for each copy of Pain. The two primary issues are that this will not work against Edelgard: Hegemon Husk if she has Mystic Boost, and that Firesweepers without Return/Reposition are more difficult to use.
+Atk
Pain [Dazzling]
(Any Assist)
(Special)
(Any A that boosts Atk/Spd)
(Any B)
(Any C)
(Any Sacred Seal that boosts Atk/Spd)

The second cheapest way to do it would be to pull for Firesweep Bow, as this requires only one 5* fodder per Firesweeper. Other than the Weapon, everything else on a Firesweep archer is dirt cheap. The unit itself does not matter too much, so you can use any archer in the 3*/4* pool with decent Atk/Spd.
+Atk
Firesweep Bow
Reposition
Moonbow
Life and Death — (Any A that boosts Atk/Spd)
Poison Strike
(Any C) — Savage Blow
Poison Strike

Other than Firesweepers, you may also want a lot of Dancers/Singers to make using Firesweepers easier. I personally recommend two Dancers/Singers per Firesweeper to give yourself enough movement to withdraw out of enemy range and fix any positioning mistakes.

— — — — — — —

For Arena, you can get into Tier 19.5 pretty easily with a player phase team, and having a Firesweeper on the team will remove almost all challenge from the mode.

— — — — — — —

For Aether Raids, she is not a huge threat in my opinion, at least not against an invested super tank. Lucina: Brave Princess will counteract Edelgard: Hegemon Husk's Special charge decrease, and Pulse Smoke on the super tank will stop her Bonfire from triggering.

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

If you're going to be using vanilla Firesweep, you should ideally be running Null Follow-Up and Flashing Blade and stack as much Atk as you possibly can.

I think it is better to double stack Poison Strike in my opinion. It is cheaper and even if the Firesweeper is walled off stat wise, double Poison Strike can still brute force past double Mystic Boost, and then you just need a unit with armor effectiveness to deal the finishing blow.

Edited by XRay
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, XRay said:

For Arena Assault, the cheapest way to do it is to build a lot of staff Firesweepers with Pain. The most significant spending would be 20,000 Feathers for each copy of Pain. The two primary issues are that this will not work against Edelgard: Hegemon Husk if she has Mystic Boost, and that Firesweepers without Return/Reposition are more difficult to use.
+Atk
Pain [Dazzling]
(Any Assist)
(Special)
(Any A that boosts Atk/Spd)
(Any B)
(Any C)
(Any Sacred Seal that boosts Atk/Spd)

The second cheapest way to do it would be to pull for Firesweep Bow, as this requires only one 5* fodder per Firesweeper. Other than the Weapon, everything else on a Firesweep archer is dirt cheap. The unit itself does not matter too much, so you can use any archer in the 3*/4* pool with decent Atk/Spd.
+Atk
Firesweep Bow
Reposition
Moonbow
Life and Death — (Any A that boosts Atk/Spd)
Poison Strike
(Any C) — Savage Blow
Poison Strike

Other than Firesweepers, you may also want a lot of Dancers/Singers to make using Firesweepers easier. I personally recommend two Dancers/Singers per Firesweeper to give yourself enough movement to withdraw out of enemy range and fix any positioning mistakes.

I think it is better to double stack Poison Strike in my opinion. It is cheaper and even if the Firesweeper is walled off stat wise, double Poison Strike can still brute force past double Mystic Boost, and then you just need a unit with armor effectiveness to deal the finishing blow.

Once you get her below 25% HP, her weapon and B skills turn off, which should make finishing her off easier.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Othin said:

Once you get her below 25% HP, her weapon and B skills turn off, which should make finishing her off easier.

The Firesweeper still needs to overcome the healing from one/two stacks of Mystic Boost though in the first place. If the Firesweeper is walled off stats wise, Poison Strike is the best way to go since it does not matter what the Firesweeper's stats are, and you just need to make sure the Dancer/Singer or another ally has Armorsmasher or something to finish her off.

Firesweep-Null Follow-Up can work too, but it is more expensive, and I do not think that is necessary.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@XRay

Spd is literally useless against Edelgard. Wary Fighter will block your follow-up unless you have Null Follow-Up, and if you do have Null Follow-Up, Edelgard's laughably low Spd will allow almost all relevant units to double her with no Spd investment.

Yeah, Spd will help against other enemies, but if you're making dedicated Edelgard counters (because it's definitely worth making dedicated Edelgard counters), there's absolutely no reason to invest in Spd. Just go with Death Blow all the way.

 

As for Poison Strike, Mystic Boost is still Edelgard's most common Sacred Seal, meaning you're getting a mere 6 damage off on her after combat with double Poison Strike if you can't break her 57 effective uninvested Def. That damage is an absolute pittance, considering she has 2 movement range to chase you down with, which effectively puts you on a timer before you run out of space to run.

Among 4-star bow units, Leon has the highest Atk without the use of Trait Fruits, but only reaches a mere 58 Atk at +10 merge with Death Blow 3 and double Poison Strike before buffs.

Additionally, double Poison Strike can only be run by a single unit in your entire barracks, meaning in Arena Assault, you can only use it on 1 of the 7 rounds. And single Poison Strike is completely negated by any Edelgard running Mystic Boost.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, XRay said:

The Firesweeper still needs to overcome the healing from one/two stacks of Mystic Boost though in the first place. If the Firesweeper is walled off stats wise, Poison Strike is the best way to go since it does not matter what the Firesweeper's stats are, and you just need to make sure the Dancer/Singer or another ally has Armorsmasher or something to finish her off.

Firesweep-Null Follow-Up can work too, but it is more expensive, and I do not think that is necessary.

Once she's below 25% HP, she loses her weapon's Atk/Def-6 and her B skill's Special Fighter and Mystic Boost effects.

Getting to that point is the hard part, but once you're there, it does make it easier to finish her off without effective damage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Spd is literally useless against Edelgard. Wary Fighter will block your follow-up unless you have Null Follow-Up, and if you do have Null Follow-Up, Edelgard's laughably low Spd will allow almost all relevant units to double her with no Spd investment.

Yeah, Spd will help against other enemies, but if you're making dedicated Edelgard counters (because it's definitely worth making dedicated Edelgard counters), there's absolutely no reason to invest in Spd. Just go with Death Blow all the way.

I do not think it is necessary to throw 2 expensive fodders into a counter unit when 1 will do, and that counter unit with decent Spd can work against many other problematic units.

If a player really wants to throw a second expensive skill on top of Firesweep Bow, saving for Fatal Smoke is a better option in my opinion.

39 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Additionally, double Poison Strike can only be run by a single unit in your entire barracks, meaning in Arena Assault, you can only use it on 1 of the 7 rounds. And single Poison Strike is completely negated by any Edelgard running Mystic Boost.

You can use Poison Strike Sacred Seal multiple times by suspending your run, move Poison Strike to a different unit, and then resume your run. Unless you see Edelgard: Hegemon Husk every battle, I do not think it is a huge hassle.

26 minutes ago, Othin said:

Once she's below 25% HP, she loses her weapon's Atk/Def-6 and her B skill's Special Fighter and Mystic Boost effects.

Getting to that point is the hard part, but once you're there, it does make it easier to finish her off without effective damage.

I mean, once she is at that point, practically any nuke or anyone with an armor effective Weapon will work.

Edited by XRay
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel like Clarisse is worth a mention.

Sniper Bow has Poison Strike/Savage Blow -7 HP effect on it, and it ALSO comes with a Firesweep effect if she is near her support ally. The only skills she needs are Poison Strike, Savage Blow, and the Poison Strike SS (she's not strong enough to deal any in-combat damage), but for an expensive option you can give her Fatal Smoke so that Hegemon's healing is immediately shut down.

The positioning requirement is a little steep, but if you make it a support unit like a dancer, she can chop off 14 of Hegemon's health per combat, 20 if no Mystic Boost, and 27 if Fatal Smoke is taken. After that all you would need is a sufficiently strong attacker to put down Hegemon.

...oh and she's free. Completely, don't even need to spend grails because she's in the GHB rotation. Sure you would only be using her once per AA run, but ideally you would only need 3 or 4 Hegemon counters per run (the first battle can just be reset until an ideal lineup appears, so only 6 battles where Hegemon can appear)

26 minutes ago, XRay said:

You can use Poison Strike Sacred Seal multiple times by suspending your run, move Poison Strike to a different unit, and then resume your run. Unless you see Edelgard: Hegemon Husk every battle, I do not think it is a huge hassle.

I... did not think that was an option. Huh.

Generally I kept my SS on one unit because of the previous rule of 7 straight battles, but if we're allowed to swap seals between each battle... that changes some things. Good to keep that in mind...

Edited by Xenomata
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, XRay said:

I do not think it is necessary to throw 2 expensive fodders into a counter unit when 1 will do, and that counter unit with decent Spd can work against many other problematic units.

If a player really wants to throw a second expensive skill on top of Firesweep Bow, saving for Fatal Smoke is a better option in my opinion.

There are 3 copies of Null Follow-Up available from Divine Codes. Enough Divine Codes have been released to reasonably be able to get 2 of them right now (and I'm currently only 18 Codes away from being able to get the third if I don't care about the other paths).

Additionally, there's no reason to get hung up on Firesweep Bow, as I've already explained that bows have a hard time punching through Edelgard's Def.

A +10+7 Soleil (only 350 Dragonflowers) with Death Blow 3 hits 68 Atk, and double Death Blow gets you to 74 Atk, which deals 8 + 12 − 14 = 6 damage on the first round of combat to a +10+5 Fallen Edelgard (assuming equal Atk bonuses on Soleil as Def bonuses on Edelgard) and 14 + 14 − 14 = 14 damage on the second round, bringing Edelgard down to 30 HP. Any armor-effective unit with just 62 Atk and the Dull Armor refine (or Dull Close if you want the Atk refine) can one-shot Edelgard from that range.

 

Alternatively, if you have Windsweep fodder from extra copies of Joshua or Alm, the same Soleil with Armorsmasher+ [unique] hits 118 effective Atk with a +6 Atk buff, which deals 34 − 14 = 20 damage on the first round of combat and 58 damage on the second round of combat for a clean 2-round kill (you don't actually need the +6 Atk buff, but big numbers are big).

And with that in mind, I think I'll just rescind my suggestion of running Firesweep and just suggest Windsweep plus an armor-effective weapon. Though it's still worth having a couple Firesweepers just in case you run into an Edelgard running Svalinn Shield (the above Soleil will deal 13 + 21 − 14 = 20 damage on the first round of combat and 21 + 21 = 42 damage on the second for a clean 2-round kill).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been using Boey to deal with Hegemon Edelgard. Advantage against colorless, he has high defense to weather her attacks, and I give him Renewal so he can heal afterwards. A Drive Def support, a boost from one of the movement boost skills, slap him on a defense tile and Hegemon crumbles. Especially if Ignis triggers. Fallen Dimitri also deals with her on Player phase. Boey is for tanking. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

And with that in mind, I think I'll just rescind my suggestion of running Firesweep and just suggest Windsweep plus an armor-effective weapon. Though it's still worth having a couple Firesweepers just in case you run into an Edelgard running Svalinn Shield (the above Soleil will deal 13 + 21 − 14 = 20 damage on the first round of combat and 21 + 21 = 42 damage on the second for a clean 2-round kill).

Firesweep Bow is ranged so it is easier to use, and it works against all types of problematic units, so the player does not need to make a new dedicated counter unit each time a new problematic unit shows up.

Windsweep is cheaper if you are using Grails, but that is only for the first few copies; I guess it is technically always cheaper in terms of Orbs since Grail units do not require any Orbs at all. Since Alm shows up with Faye on their Revival Focus, I guess you might as well grab both for more options.

3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

There are 3 copies of Null Follow-Up available from Divine Codes. Enough Divine Codes have been released to reasonably be able to get 2 of them right now (and I'm currently only 18 Codes away from being able to get the third if I don't care about the other paths).

If the player is not much of a spender, the issue with using Divine Codes and Null Follow-Up is that they are in high demand by super tanks. Divine Codes are most likely going to be used to Compile Distant Counter, Spurn, and/or Null Follow-Up, and even if the player chooses Null Follow-Up, I think it makes more sense to give that to a super tank than to a counter unit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, XRay said:

and it works against all types of problematic units,

Not when you literally cannot damage them.

As I already mentioned, the strongest 4-star bow unit when fully invested without premium skills, Trait Fruits, or Dragonflowers does a whopping 1 damage per hit to a completely uninvested Edelgard, totaling 7 damage after Poison Strike. I would hardly consider that to be "working".

A fully invested Edelgard has 5 more Def, meaning you need to find another 2 Atk before you can even start dealing in-combat damage again from the second round of combat onward.

 

1 hour ago, XRay said:

If the player is not much of a spender, the issue with using Divine Codes and Null Follow-Up is that they are in high demand by super tanks. Divine Codes are most likely going to be used to Compile Distant Counter, Spurn, and/or Null Follow-Up, and even if the player chooses Null Follow-Up, I think it makes more sense to give that to a super tank than to a counter unit.

There is a whopping 1 copy of Distant Counter in the Divine Code 1 pool and no copies of Spurn. Divine Code 1 is not exactly a resource with particularly high demand.

The Divine Code 1 path with Null Follow-Up includes good skills on literally all of its units. It's a pretty good path when the weakest Combat Manual in the path is one with Dull Close on it. Grima comes with Vengeful Fighter, Owain with Wrath and Blue Flame, and Dancer Xander with Close Counter and Dusk Uchiwa.

Also, super tanks have better options than Null Follow-Up, like Spurn, Special Fighter, Crafty Fighter, Null C-Disrupt, etc. My opinion of Null Follow-Up is that it's more valuable on offensive units since it is the most reliable way to break the follow-up prevention that is showing up on more units, like Fallen Edelgard and Brave Hector.

Edited by Ice Dragon
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Not when you literally cannot damage them.

As I already mentioned, the strongest 4-star bow unit when fully invested without premium skills, Trait Fruits, or Dragonflowers does a whopping 1 damage per hit to a completely uninvested Edelgard, totaling 7 damage after Poison Strike. I would hardly consider that to be "working".

A fully invested Edelgard has 5 more Def, meaning you need to find another 2 Atk before you can even start dealing in-combat damage again from the second round of combat onward.

Poison Strike will still deal enough damage out of combat in my opinion, and if you run Savage Blow, that can further help if the enemies are grouped up, which is what the AI tend to do in most cases.

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

There is a whopping 1 copy of Distant Counter in the Divine Code 1 pool and no copies of Spurn. Divine Code 1 is not exactly a resource with particularly high demand.

The Divine Code 1 path with Null Follow-Up includes good skills on literally all of its units. It's a pretty good path when the weakest Combat Manual in the path is one with Dull Close on it. Grima comes with Vengeful Fighter, Owain with Wrath and Blue Flame, and Dancer Xander with Close Counter and Dusk Uchiwa.

That is true, but not everyone is sitting on Divine Codes either. Newer players might not have enough 1s to go around since they are discontinued, and 2s are just as slow to accumulate. And Divine Codes are even worse than Grails since you cannot grab the same unit more than once.

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Also, super tanks have better options than Null Follow-Up, like Spurn, Special Fighter, Crafty Fighter, Null C-Disrupt, etc. My opinion of Null Follow-Up is that it's more valuable on offensive units since it is the most reliable way to break the follow-up prevention that is showing up on more units, like Fallen Edelgard and Brave Hector.

Depending on the week and meta, players may want swap their B skills around. Spurn is great, but some builds just completely counter it, so the player may want Null Follow-Up over Spurn.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, XRay said:

Poison Strike will still deal enough damage out of combat in my opinion,

SIX DAMAGE. Please explain to me how 6 damage is considered "enough" so that my monkey brain can understand what I'm missing.

Edited by Ice Dragon
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

SIX DAMAGE. Please explain to me how 6 damage is considered "enough" so that my monkey brain can understand what I'm missing.

You hit her multiple times? Savage Blow helps too when against a group.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, XRay said:

You hit her multiple times? Savage Blow helps too when against a group.

Sure, but Edelgard has 50 HP. That's a lot of multiple times, and you have limited actions and limited space to back up every turn and Edelgard's 3 other teammates to deal with.

Against any other unit, double Poison Strike is chunking them for nearly half of their HP, but against Edelgard, you're getting just barely over 1/10 of her HP on top of doing no damage in combat.

I don't see how this strategy is anywhere near as reliable as Windsweep, which both is cheaper and gets the job done faster.

And being good against more than just Edelgard is not anything special. Windsweepers are also good against more than just Edelgard, especially if you manage to get your hands on one of the ones with Null Follow-Up on their weapon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some stuff:

Next refines: Fallen Takumi, Spring Sharena, Sothe, Karla, Flora

Next limited manuals: Summer Helbindi, Summer Noire, Winter Felix, New Year's Keaton, Ilyana, Nino

Tier 11 to be implemented into Pawns of Loki

QoL update to AR-O (danger zone tiles will be easier to see against deployment tiles).

AI to be updated (includes autobattle, AR-D, and Arena Defense).

So if I'm understanding this correctly, they'll remove the cinematic story movies from the game itself and just put in links to the YouTube videos.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Roflolxp54 said:

Some stuff:

Next refines: Fallen Takumi, Spring Sharena, Sothe, Karla, Flora

Next limited manuals: Summer Helbindi, Summer Noire, Winter Felix, New Year's Keaton, Ilyana, Nino

Tier 11 to be implemented into Pawns of Loki

QoL update to AR-O (danger zone tiles will be easier to see against deployment tiles).

AI to be updated (includes autobattle, AR-D, and Arena Defense).

So if I'm understanding this correctly, they'll remove the cinematic story movies from the game itself and just put in links to the YouTube videos.

Was deciding whether to spend orbs on Ashera banner, I guess Flora decided that for me. Gonna save orbs to summon as many of her as possible, since Karla definitely gonna might pitybreak me.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hiding lower-level skills is a very helpful option.

Next manual lineup has both the winter and NY TT units, I was wondering how they'd handle that. Hopefully that means at least 800 codes available.

Interesting that they split up Sharena and Catria. If next month is legendaries again, will Catria be in August?

Good to get to Sothe. Out of the last of the Book 2 demotes with prfs, the only one left now is Ares, whose base effect is a lot stronger than the rest. Wonder if they'll do him next, or start going for units like Soleil and Shigure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Othin said:

Next manual lineup has both the winter and NY TT units, I was wondering how they'd handle that. Hopefully that means at least 800 codes available.

Well, it's not like Noire has anything useful for SI... If she's a merge project, ok. But otherwise, I don't see why not picking her manual would be a big deal.

And I say that as someone who loved Noire in Awakening. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, Rinco said:

Well, it's not like Noire has anything useful for SI... If she's a merge project, ok. But otherwise, I don't see why not picking her manual would be a big deal.

And I say that as someone who loved Noire in Awakening. 

True, but I like getting all the rare manuals anyway. If nothing else, at least she can give a silly bow to one of my merge projects.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...