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37 minutes ago, silveraura25 said:

That's interesting. There's an upcoming strategy RPG FF gacha that's coming soon in Japan. If it's a success I do hope Feh will try to be more innovative.

Hey, i get it, FEH isn't the best at everything and all that.

But why does every post you make here in General by about other/upcoming mobile games? It's getting tiring.

Like, General Gaming and Far From The Forest exist dude. 

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1 hour ago, RexBolt said:

Hey, i get it, FEH isn't the best at everything and all that.

But why does every post you make here in General by about other/upcoming mobile games? It's getting tiring.

Like, General Gaming and Far From The Forest exist dude. 

I wasn't talking about it being released as a topic of discussion. Rather the effects it could have on Feh competiting. Feh has potential and issues that I think could be improved upon with pressure from competition

Assuming that IS decides to preview the units that get new weapons, who do you want to or expect to see? I kinda think they might have chosen the Whitewing sisters this time around for book 3 since they're a bit of a tradition (3 pegasus knights with them being the face of it as well as the Triangle attack originating from them) even if it's not followed sometimes. They have the second most appearances in FE games along with Camus/Zeke behind Anna. They were also featured as DLC in Awakening so I do think there's a soft spot or at least some importance placed on them for the Awakening DLC alone

Edited by silveraura25

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Are there any builds that uses Brash Assault, BUT does NOT use Desperation?

Unlike other B slots like Desperation, Guard, or Breakers, Brash Assault cannot stand on its own because you need to fulfill two requirements for it work and fulfilling those two requirements without Desperation pretty much means you will die before activating the effect. If they release Brash Assault 4, they could release two versions of it and each version would remove one of the requirements. With only one requirement to fulfill, it would be a much better stand alone skill in my opinion.

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13 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Um, no. I don't even have a rating system. I simply compare characters and options. There's no point in rating characters when I can explain the benefits of various options and let other players choose which option makes the most sense for them.

Sorry for misunderstanding, then.

13 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

That doesn't matter. At all.

You're not trying to target units as a whole. You're trying to target the aspects of the unit that are unbalanced. When people say to "nerf Reinhardt", they don't mean to nerf every single build that Reinhardt has; they really mean to nerf just a handful of builds that feel unbalanced.

If you are designing your nerfs properly and targeting the right things, then less flexible units simply won't be affected (or will be affected to a lesser extent) unless they also share the same aspects that were overpowered (in which case they also deserve to be nerfed at the same time because they would also, by definition, be overpowered in the same way).

Hmm, well, like I said, personally I don't think Dire Thunder itself is overpowered at all---just like how I don't really think Brave Bow on Valentine Roy is overpowered. I think Rein's overpowered because he's 'good enough' in pretty much every category, not because he has one particularly overpowered set.

Like, other than sheer initiation range Reinhardt is pretty much never the 'best' choice for a given situation, but he's 'good enough' in so many cases that he's kind of ridiculous. You can stuff him into pretty much any lineup and he'll do work. A character like that has to be slightly underpowered in every situation to not be broken---the more choices you have the worse your choices have to be to be balanced, because the player will always pick the best choice for the situation.

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2 hours ago, silveraura25 said:

Assuming that IS decides to preview the units that get new weapons, who do you want to or expect to see? I kinda think they might have chosen the Whitewing sisters this time around for book 3 since they're a bit of a tradition (3 pegasus knights with them being the face of it as well as the Triangle attack originating from them) even if it's not followed sometimes. They have the second most appearances in FE games along with Camus/Zeke behind Anna. They were also featured as DLC in Awakening so I do think there's a soft spot or at least some importance placed on them for the Awakening DLC alone

Whitewings would be good, though I don't know what they could or should get refine-wise. Some kind of callback to Triangle Attack could be neat. Otherwise, I'm personally waiting for Beruka and Kagero above all else. Beruka keeps getting new useful options (first the Halloween axe, now SS4), but I'm hesitant to go all in investing in her when they could drop a prf with Guard on her for all we know. It's already a good thing I didn't throw the Hack-o-Lantern on her like I was about to, since SS4 already seems superior. I'd hate to kill my Surtr and find that to have been a waste. I don't know what Kagero would get, but I'd like to see her not remain strictly inferior to Sothe with his prf. Both have their own named weapons in Fates, so I assume it'll happen eventually, but who knows when.

After picks like Nephenee, Celica and Saber, I have no idea what they might actually do next at this point.

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2 hours ago, Alkaid said:

Whitewings would be good, though I don't know what they could or should get refine-wise. Some kind of callback to Triangle Attack could be neat.

Catria can get a 16-MT Slaying Lance, while Est could either keep the Armorslaying weapon or get a personal Brave Lance (Florina and Cherche show that either path is possible for Est, though personally I would prefer the latter). Palla could get a personal Wo Dao or maybe a Chill SPD 3 sword or Ward Fliers sword or something.

As for what the Triangle Attack could look like in Heroes, maybe something like "When unit initiates combat and number of Flying allies within 2 spaces > 2, grants Special Cooldown -2 before combat" to guarantee that they get their Specials off (Palla would get Moonbow guaranteed since it has 2 Cooldown, while Catria would get Luna on the first attack since the Slaying effect gives her 2-CD Lunas, Est would need to be given a Special to take advantage of this but that shouldn't be too difficult) since IIRC the Triangle Attack is usually just a critical hit.

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5 minutes ago, ILikeKirbys said:

As for what the Triangle Attack could look like in Heroes, maybe something like "When unit initiates combat and number of Flying allies within 2 spaces > 2, grants Special Cooldown -2 before combat" to guarantee that they get their Specials off (Palla would get Moonbow guaranteed since it has 2 Cooldown, while Catria would get Luna on the first attack since the Slaying effect gives her 2-CD Lunas, Est would need to be given a Special to take advantage of this but that shouldn't be too difficult) since IIRC the Triangle Attack is usually just a critical hit.

Apparently, there are several yet-unused weapon/skill effects found in the update, and one of them refers to a triangle:

Quote

SAID_トライアングル (lit. "triangle") If the number of allies within ??? spaces ≥ ???, grants stats+??? during combat, and unit attacks twice. Triangle Attack refine?

(from this reddit post)

What if triangle attack refinement for the Whitewing sisters?

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@Vaximillian That would certainly be a good implementation of Triangle Attack (even if I could grumble about Triangle Attack not actually allowing its user to double, a guaranteed follow-up attack with a combat stat boost is probably a better interpretation for Heroes than what I wrote in my last post or most other things they could be given, especially if one of the stats being granted is ATK), and I would not mind if we got that on all of the Whitewings (or at least Palla, she probably needs a refinement the most out of these three).

If we didn't get a Triangle Attack-type refinement for the Whitewings (or at least Palla) I would be disappointed.

Edited by ILikeKirbys

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4 hours ago, XRay said:

Are there any builds that uses Brash Assault, BUT does NOT use Desperation?

Unlike other B slots like Desperation, Guard, or Breakers, Brash Assault cannot stand on its own because you need to fulfill two requirements for it work and fulfilling those two requirements without Desperation pretty much means you will die before activating the effect. If they release Brash Assault 4, they could release two versions of it and each version would remove one of the requirements. With only one requirement to fulfill, it would be a much better stand alone skill in my opinion.

Brazen builds, particularly for Alfonse. Seliph can do something similar with original Tyrfing, I have mine still set with BA and Fury from a long time before the BA seal or Brazen skills even existed

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6 hours ago, XRay said:

Are there any builds that uses Brash Assault, BUT does NOT use Desperation?

Unlike other B slots like Desperation, Guard, or Breakers, Brash Assault cannot stand on its own because you need to fulfill two requirements for it work and fulfilling those two requirements without Desperation pretty much means you will die before activating the effect. If they release Brash Assault 4, they could release two versions of it and each version would remove one of the requirements. With only one requirement to fulfill, it would be a much better stand alone skill in my opinion.

The unit in question would need to have considerably high Player Phase Defense/Resistance for Brash Assault to work well without Desperation. Brazen Atk/Res stacking on, say, Felicia or Brazen Atk/Def stacking on Alfonse with forged Folkvangr. That way they could initiate combat on someone who can counterattack and take minimal damage in return.

But the problem with that scenario is that outside most Armor units, who have their own specialized and better Brash Assault anyways, there are very few units who have that high enough Defense/Resistance. Take Hinata for instance. At 0 merge +Def -Res with a forged Slaying Edge, we're looking at 43 Defense. +7 from Brazen Atk/Def is only 50, so while he'll be taking minimum damage from most non-Lance units, he's still not that safe.

The OTHER problem I now realize is getting down to 50% HP with that much bulk. Even if you did do, say, Brazen Atk/Res stacked Felicia (Assuming +Atk IVs, we're looking at 49 Res without a Res forged weapon, 52 with a Res forge, and 55 with a +Res), you still need to get down to 50% HP, and Fury isn't there to help you along. Ardent Sacrifice/Reciprocal Aid play would help in this case I suppose, and you would need to take sufficient damage before the Brazen skill applies as well.

Finally, with all that preparation, in a typical Arena battle, you would get... approximately 2 or 3 kills across maybe 3 or 4 Player Phases with the BA unit, because you spent at least one turn preparing Brash Assault, when in that time you could have just fielded four units who didn't need such preparation and be done in 2 or 3 Phases, at least one of which was spent just moving everyone closer (unless it's that stupid Oasis map that's surrounded in Fortress tiles, then you're taking 5 or 7 player and enemy phases anyways)

Final conclusion based on my own (somewhat uneducated) guesses, Brash Assault is useless without Desperation.

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@XRay Brash Assault is a slippery slope because there's no real way to properly balance it. Removing the HP requirement essentially turns it into Bold Fighter 0.5 while rendering a lot of the Prf weapons pointless. Sure you can't attack ranged units, but chances are you're putting this skill on slower, more powerful units which means a higher chance of a OHKO.

On the other hand, anything else and it's still pretty useless. Taking it up to a 75% or below requirement, even with a +1 cooldown effect (essentially worse Bold Fighter still) doesn't change it's reliance on Desperation or it's uselessness without it.

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16 minutes ago, Zeo said:

@XRay Brash Assault is a slippery slope because there's no real way to properly balance it. Removing the HP requirement essentially turns it into Bold Fighter 0.5 while rendering a lot of the Prf weapons pointless. Sure you can't attack ranged units, but chances are you're putting this skill on slower, more powerful units which means a higher chance of a OHKO.

On the other hand, anything else and it's still pretty useless. Taking it up to a 75% or below requirement, even with a +1 cooldown effect (essentially worse Bold Fighter still) doesn't change it's reliance on Desperation or it's uselessness without it.

actually considering bold fighter. Brash Assault should still be 100% and it wouldn be broken. As you said it would activate against ranged units with no CC and it definitly would activate against firesweep. 

Meanwhile Bold Fighter gets to activate against anyone an gives armorers special cool down charges.

I mean i get it Reinhardt and Dragons would be evennstronger with it, but considering how broken Armorers are...

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Brash assault without HP limit would break the meta the same way BF did even without special charge. It's a slippery slope

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3 hours ago, Johann said:

Brazen builds, particularly for Alfonse. Seliph can do something similar with original Tyrfing, I have mine still set with BA and Fury from a long time before the BA seal or Brazen skills even existed

1 hour ago, Xenomata said:

That way they could initiate combat on someone who can counterattack and take minimal damage in return.

1 hour ago, Xenomata said:

The OTHER problem I now realize is getting down to 50% HP with that much bulk.

That is a nice idea. I have not thought about stacking Def/Res to the point where you take minimal damage once in HP range. With triple Brazen Atk/Def and bonus stats, Alfonse would get 57 Def (32+7+7+7+4), so that should let him run Brash Assault for a little while, although it still feels kind of risky.

Yeah, landing into your HP range just right is a problem though. If you land between 50-80% HP, it would be pretty difficult to reduce your HP further.

1 hour ago, Zeo said:

@XRay Brash Assault is a slippery slope because there's no real way to properly balance it. Removing the HP requirement essentially turns it into Bold Fighter 0.5 while rendering a lot of the Prf weapons pointless. Sure you can't attack ranged units, but chances are you're putting this skill on slower, more powerful units which means a higher chance of a OHKO.

On the other hand, anything else and it's still pretty useless. Taking it up to a 75% or below requirement, even with a +1 cooldown effect (essentially worse Bold Fighter still) doesn't change it's reliance on Desperation or it's uselessness without it.

33 minutes ago, silveraura25 said:

Brash assault without HP limit would break the meta the same way BF did even without special charge. It's a slippery slope

Maybe it would be more balanced if Null Follow-Up is more available as a Sacred Seal? It would make Spd tanks more relevant since there would be more units using a B skill that guarantee doubles. It would also let non-armor Player Phase units better compete against armor units.

1 hour ago, Hilda said:

I mean i get it Reinhardt and Dragons would be evennstronger with it, but considering how broken Armorers are...

I personally want the enemy counterattack requirement to be removed more than the HP requirement. Without the enemy counterattack requirement, I can run Firesweep-Fury-Brash Assault as a pseudo-Brave unit.

For archers, in exchange for receiving the "Brave" effect, they would just be giving up 1 Atk and the first few rounds of performance.
Brave Bow + Death Blow = 15 Atk
Firesweep Bow + Fury = 14 Atk

For melee units, they would actually gain Atk but they would still be sacrificing their first few rounds of performance.
Brave Melee + Death Blow =16 Atk
Firesweep Melee + Fury = 18 Atk

Edited by XRay

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3 hours ago, Johann said:

Brazen builds, particularly for Alfonse. Seliph can do something similar with original Tyrfing, I have mine still set with BA and Fury from a long time before the BA seal or Brazen skills even existed

There's also Chrom, regular or paladin, with Sealed Falchion where its Brazen Spectrum 2 will activate when he takes 1 damage, but he can't refine it so he can't get a defense or resistance boost like Alfonse can and for regular Chrom, regular Falchion with its unique refinement is probably more reliable if you can consistently position him near allies and it gives him good sustain with Renewal as his B passive.

Edited by Kaden

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3 hours ago, Hilda said:

actually considering bold fighter. Brash Assault should still be 100% and it wouldn be broken. As you said it would activate against ranged units with no CC and it definitly would activate against firesweep. 

Meanwhile Bold Fighter gets to activate against anyone an gives armorers special cool down charges.

I mean i get it Reinhardt and Dragons would be evennstronger with it, but considering how broken Armorers are...

@Zeo i think it would be ok for Brash to get this buff back then but we do have it as Seals nowadays making it kinda iffy

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17 hours ago, ILikeKirbys said:

even if I could grumble about Triangle Attack not actually allowing its user to double

What are you referring to here? Do you mean the way Triangle Attack works in Echoes? Because in most other cases, Triangle Attack doesn't have any restrictions on double attacks.

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3 hours ago, Robert of Normandy said:

What are you referring to here? Do you mean the way Triangle Attack works in Echoes? Because in most other cases, Triangle Attack doesn't have any restrictions on double attacks.

Reading that back, I misspoke a bit. Shouldn't have said not allowing its user to double, should've said not guaranteeing a double for its user. Sorry about that.

I was supposed to be referring to the Triangle Attack not giving its user an automatic double in most games (as far as I remember it's just a critical hit, though I could be wrong about this) while the skill that is apparently going to be Triangle Attack in Heroes does give its user an automatic double if its conditions are met.

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54 minutes ago, Jingle Bells said:

Too many sword units for balance.

I like how Chrom and Lucina are positioned; it looks like a mirror image of the cover of Awakening.

Seems like Lucina and Roy are both escaping from their lecturing mothers.

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4 hours ago, ILikeKirbys said:

Reading that back, I misspoke a bit. Shouldn't have said not allowing its user to double, should've said not guaranteeing a double for its user. Sorry about that.

I was supposed to be referring to the Triangle Attack not giving its user an automatic double in most games (as far as I remember it's just a critical hit, though I could be wrong about this) while the skill that is apparently going to be Triangle Attack in Heroes does give its user an automatic double if its conditions are met.

I think it also gave 100% accuracy in most appearances, though my only real use of Triangle Attack was in Echoes, where it was a proper skill that also had boosted Attack power...

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2 minutes ago, Midnox said:

I’m bored. Can we get a FEH channel already?

I wouldn't be surprised if one is announced by the end of the Voting Gauntlet, seeing that the Fire and Ice banner ends almost exactly one week from today, but then again we might just get the next batch of Winter Heroes (and next generation of armor powercreep) and have Book III start even later this month.  I personally think that we'll get a Feh Channel just for Book III this month, but maybe all we'll get is a fancy anime introductory video.

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Can we agree that the game is on an unavoidable path of making more and more Stat-beefy units with new more op skills each time. I'm avoiding using the word powercreep because people get iffy about that because apparently Reinhardt cancels out powercreep.

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12 hours ago, DarkAlf said:

 Winter Heroes (and next generation of armor powercreep) 

Can’t wait for a barely dressed winter Camilla :rolleyes:. Anyway, It’s rather disappointing we only got a picture with Heroes sprites pasted on the Castle Siege stage for Smash. It’s kind of a waste not having an actual tie-in content, considering how Smash shaped FE’s history

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