Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[Troykv]

This map is one of the easier than isn't from vanilla FEH, I actually manage to win mostly through the usage of Nagi and many many reposition users xDD

[Fabulously Olivier]

27 minutes ago, Hilda said:

say wut? This is the first and only mode that has restricted deployment challenges. Aside from the 1 Dancer rule from big maps (which isnt a huge deal) thats it. Olivers GHB is so easy you dont need a full merge project.

Umm. Wut?

 

Every GHB/BHB rerun has enforced some sort of soft deployment restriction through quests that require conditions such as Askr trio, Fjorm, full cavalry, full fliers, full armor, full infantry, or one of each. 

 

Then we have the Blessed Gardens mode, that restricted deployment by Blessings - a resource restriction that made this mode far more intuitive after all of its maps were finished (because you could clear all of each blessing, then change your best team's blessings to clear the rest).

 

 

So I repeat myself. I wish they would stop.

[Humanoid]

It's a bit disappointing that they're time-limited, but otherwise it's a solid enough idea. Just shunt all the GHBs into a sub-menu and have them available permanently

[Othin]

18 minutes ago, Etheus said:

Umm. Wut?

 

Every GHB/BHB rerun has enforced some sort of soft deployment restriction through quests that require conditions such as Askr trio, Fjorm, full cavalry, full fliers, full armor, full infantry, or one of each. 

 

Then we have the Blessed Gardens mode, that restricted deployment by Blessings - a resource restriction that made this mode far more intuitive after all of its maps were finished (because you could clear all of each blessing, then change your best team's blessings to clear the rest).

 

 

So I repeat myself. I wish they would stop.

They're not going to stop. They need to keep people wanting more and more units, and to do that they need to keep finding ways for the existing ones to not do everything. 

[XRay]

4 minutes ago, Othin said:

They're not going to stop. They need to keep people wanting more and more units, and to do that they need to keep finding ways for the existing ones to not do everything. 

If they want players to experiment more, they need to drop the price of skills on Enemy Phase units, particularly A slot Breaths, as well as B slot Quick Riposte. Additionally better UI implementation for battle prediction for Enemy Phase would also be good.

Player Phase skills are cheap and effective (Fury, Life and Death, Desperation), while the Enemy Phase skills of equivalent effectiveness like Steady Breath and Warding Breath are completely 5* exclusive, or require a 20,000 Feather investment like Quick Riposte that is particularly punishing for new players who also have to juggle with using Feathers to promote 3* units for skill inheritance to build their Barracks from scratch. Player Phase units also got the convenience of the in game battle predictor to adjust their tactics immediately on the fly, something that Enemy Phase units do not have access to outside of modes that allow players to Re-Act, which is locked behind a pay wall.

Oliver's Limited Battle Map might be easy, but later maps might not.

[Fabulously Olivier]

14 minutes ago, XRay said:

If they want players to experiment more, they need to drop the price of skills on Enemy Phase units, particularly A slot Breaths, as well as B slot Quick Riposte. Additionally better UI implementation for battle prediction for Enemy Phase would also be good.

Player Phase skills are cheap and effective (Fury, Life and Death, Desperation), while the Enemy Phase skills of equivalent effectiveness like Steady Breath and Warding Breath are completely 5* exclusive, or require a 20,000 Feather investment like Quick Riposte that is particularly punishing for new players who also have to juggle with using Feathers to promote 3* units for skill inheritance to build their Barracks from scratch. Player Phase units also got the convenience of the in game battle predictor to adjust their tactics immediately on the fly, something that Enemy Phase units do not have access to outside of modes that allow players to Re-Act, which is locked behind a pay wall.

Oliver's Limited Battle Map might be easy, but later maps might not.

As a fan of enemy phase units, I can confirm. And it is annoying.

[Diovani Bressan]

17 minutes ago, XRay said:

Oliver's Limited Battle Map might be easy, but later maps might not.

That's a good point. Legendary Robin will require Tellius units, and I know some people will just throw Brave Ike and leave him to do the job, but it's still a tricky map.

And... If my prediction is right, next set of Limited Hero Battles will have Fallen Takumi which is not a easy battle at all to beat by using the units we like... imagine with limitations.

[Othin]

24 minutes ago, XRay said:

If they want players to experiment more, they need to drop the price of skills on Enemy Phase units, particularly A slot Breaths, as well as B slot Quick Riposte. Additionally better UI implementation for battle prediction for Enemy Phase would also be good.

Player Phase skills are cheap and effective (Fury, Life and Death, Desperation), while the Enemy Phase skills of equivalent effectiveness like Steady Breath and Warding Breath are completely 5* exclusive, or require a 20,000 Feather investment like Quick Riposte that is particularly punishing for new players who also have to juggle with using Feathers to promote 3* units for skill inheritance to build their Barracks from scratch. Player Phase units also got the convenience of the in game battle predictor to adjust their tactics immediately on the fly, something that Enemy Phase units do not have access to outside of modes that allow players to Re-Act, which is locked behind a pay wall.

Oliver's Limited Battle Map might be easy, but later maps might not.

Those changes would be nice, but I think you're overstating the need for optimal builds, even on less trivial maps. QR3 and Steady Breath are expensive, but QR2 and Steady Posture are not. And I don't think there's anything strange about the game having challenges for long-time players that new players are likely to have a hard time with. 

Edited April 13, 2020 by Othin

[Tybrosion]

24 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said:

And... If my prediction is right, next set of Limited Hero Battles will have Fallen Takumi which is not a easy battle at all to beat by using the units we like... imagine with limitations.

Watch Fallen Takumi be Heroes-only just to screw me, and only me, over specifically.

Though to be honest, the thought that there may be a Heroes-only one eventually does actually concern me a bit.

[GrandeRampel]

It's been 3000 years........

Well, more like three months but I like to be dramatic when I can, so let me have this moment.

I'M BACK! Holy macaroni! I returned from the Shadow Realm alive. Only the bravest heroes have come back from the limitless deserts of-

Whatever, the point is that I can finally post again, and wow I missed so much stuff. I mean, I lurked the forum like a good boy but it was painful being unable to tell everyone how much I loved seeing TMS #FE be recognized (still no Cipher and no Pheros/Lekain/Fleche in CYL tho 😕 )

Not to mention Leila, and Travant and now Iago! You all know how much I love when NPCs get added to the game. And the Forma Souls are so good, I got my very first Olwen thanks to them. I really hope I get exactly 1 character I don't have with every hall of forms because I'm a collector and choosing would be painful. And so much other stuff, I will have to calm myself and be careful to not start posting eveywhere to try and catch up, but the gist of it is that I really enjoyed Heroes since the banishment, and being able to comment on the game with you all again is amazing.

I can't wait for August and the new CYL banner. I'm especially curious about what they'll do with Lysithea.

Just gotta make sure to not bring the wrath of the mods upon my head again. Thank goodness I managed to miss the Hero Rises VG and the announcement of the FEH pass. Surely nothing else this year will be that controversial, ahahah...

...ahah...

...ah...

 

 

(Please Sothis, let Dimitri, Claude and Rhea get seasonal alts AND legendary/mythic alts before Edelgard, pleasepleaseplease heed my prayer and burn all the potential Black Eagles bias arguments into the eternal flames.

And add the damn gauntlets to the game so we can get Dedue and put that argument to rest too. I will offer my firstborn Morgan to you as a sacrifice, my goddess of Smash Bros. trailers and part-time messenger owl)

[XRay]

2 hours ago, Othin said:

Those changes would be nice, but I think you're overstating the need for optimal builds, even on less trivial maps. QR3 and Steady Breath are expensive, but QR2 and Steady Posture are not. And I don't think there's anything strange about the game having challenges for long-time players that new players are likely to have a hard time with.

Enemy Phase units have a much higher level of burden on stats, more HP maintenance, and have to consider whether it is worth the drop in stats to run a Counter skill.

Over half the stats do not matter for Player Phase units and all they care about is just Atk/Spd; many care even less and focus solely on Atk. Enemy Phase units all want HP/Atk/Def/Res to be high, and all 5 stats to be high for Spd tanks.

Most Player Phase units can operate at any HP range, the vast majority will get even better when their HP gets lower, and they only have to worry about HP management once per unit per battle to hit Desperation range. Enemy Phase units on the other hand have to deal with constant HP management throughout the the battle to keep their HP topped up.

Even if we compare Fury 3 to Steady Posture 2, I would argue Fury is better than Steady Posture despite Steady Posture giving more stats that matter (Fury's Def/Res boosts are irrelevant). Fury's Atk/Spd+3 are 6 points in stats that matter during every round of combat. Steady Posture's Spd+4 matter during every round of combat, but that Def+4 only matters half the time (assuming the unit is fighting equal numbers of magical and physical enemies), so on average, Steady Posture only provides 6 points in stats, which is basically the same as Fury. Fury also gives Player Phase units the benefit of reaching Desperation range easier, while Steady Posture on the other hand offers nothing else until it hits tier 3 for the Guard effect.

Steady Breath and Warding Breath are far from the most optimal A skill. Sturdy Stance 3 and Mirror Stance 3 offset the slower Special triggers with Atk+6, and provide much better protection with higher Def or Res stats and having Guard effect.

Quick Riposte 2 is usable, but the Enemy Phase unit will have less of an HP buffer to keep it going, and you need to keep it topped up far more often. Desperation 3 has an extremely lenient HP range to reach and there is no further HP maintenance requirement once reached. Quick Riposte also is not even optimal on the B slot unless the unit is a flier and got access to a Distant Counter Weapon. Armors want Vengeful Fighter and infantry and cavalry want Lull Atk/Spd. Fliers are a mess as they need also need to juggle Iote's Shield and Quick Riposte, in addition to figuring out whether they need Distant Counter/Close Counter, and in which slot to put in Special disruption (Stances, Guard, Pulse Smoke) and buff nullification (Dulls or Panic Smoke).

And all of that is on top of having little to no access to a battle predictor, with Re-Act being an extremely crude form of it and not available to all modes nor players.

2 hours ago, Othin said:

And I don't think there's anything strange about the game having challenges for long-time players that new players are likely to have a hard time with. 

There are better ways to go about it in my opinion. At the very least, I would make LHB permanent so new players are not rushed to get these resources. New players already suffer from resource disadvantage from PvP modes and missing out on past event and quest rewards, so there is no need to further widen that resource gap with PvE modes too.

Edited April 13, 2020 by XRay

[Othin]

5 minutes ago, XRay said:

Enemy Phase units have a much higher level of burden on stats, more HP maintenance, and have to consider whether it is worth the drop in stats to run a Counter skill.

Over half the stats do not matter for Player Phase units and all they care about is just Atk/Spd; many care even less and focus solely on Atk. Enemy Phase units all want HP/Atk/Def/Res to be high, and all 5 stats to be high for Spd tanks.

Most Player Phase units can operate at any HP range, the vast majority will get even better when their HP gets lower, and they only have to worry about HP management once per unit per battle to hit Desperation range. Enemy Phase units on the other hand have to deal with constant HP management throughout the the battle to keep their HP topped up.

Even if we compare Fury 3 to Steady Posture 2, I would argue Fury is better than Steady Posture despite Steady Posture giving more stats that matter (Fury's Def/Res boosts are irrelevant). Fury's Atk/Spd+3 are 6 points in stats that matter during every round of combat. Steady Posture's Spd+4 matter during every round of combat, but that Def+4 only matters half the time (assuming the unit is fighting equal numbers of magical and physical enemies), so on average, Steady Posture only provides 6 points in stats, which is basically the same as Fury. Fury also gives Player Phase units the benefit of reaching Desperation range easier, while Steady Posture on the other hand offers nothing else until it hits tier 3 for the Guard effect.

Steady Breath and Warding Breath are far from the most optimal A skill. Sturdy Stance 3 and Mirror Stance 3 offset the slower Special triggers with Atk+6, and provide much better protection with higher Def or Res stats and having Guard effect.

Quick Riposte 2 is usable, but the Enemy Phase unit will have less of an HP buffer to keep it going, and you need to keep it topped up far more often. Desperation 3 has an extremely lenient HP range to reach and there is no further HP maintenance requirement once reached. Quick Riposte also is not even optimal on the B slot unless the unit is a flier and got access to a Distant Counter Weapon. Armors want Vengeful Fighter and infantry and cavalry want Lull Atk/Spd. Fliers are a mess as they need also need to juggle Iote's Shield and Quick Riposte, in addition to figuring out whether they need Distant Counter/Close Counter, and in which slot to put in Special disruption (Stances, Guard, Pulse Smoke) and buff nullification (Dulls or Panic Smoke).

And all of that is on top of having little to no access to a battle predictor, with Re-Act being an extremely crude form of it and not available to all modes nor players.

There are better ways to go about it in my opinion. At the very least, I would make LHB permanent so new players are not rushed to get these resources. New players already suffer from resource disadvantage from PvP modes and missing out on past event and quest rewards, so there is no need to further widen that resource gap with PvE modes too.

I have no idea what those first seven paragraphs have to do with any of this. I'm talking about how lots of units can stomp maps like these with base kits or close and you're going on some tirade about enemy phase vs player phase units?

Longer times to do the battles would be nice. Permanent would be great but they seem to really not want too many permanent Special Maps.

[XRay]

2 minutes ago, Othin said:

I have no idea what those first seven paragraphs have to do with any of this. I'm talking about how lots of units can stomp maps like these with base kits or close and you're going on some tirade about enemy phase vs player phase units?

Oliver's map is super easy, but that does not mean other maps are super easy. If other maps will be as stupid easy as Oliver's map, then I would voice my concerns less. Not being able to use Dance/Sing basically shuts down half of the game's play styles. Not being able to use Dance/Sing is about as ridiculous as not being allowed to heal or run Quick Riposte for Enemy Phase units.

[Othin]

2 minutes ago, XRay said:

Oliver's map is super easy, but that does not mean other maps are super easy. If other maps will be as stupid easy as Oliver's map, then I would voice my concerns less. Not being able to use Dance/Sing basically shuts down half of the game's play styles. Not being able to use Dance/Sing is about as ridiculous as not being allowed to heal or run Quick Riposte for Enemy Phase units.

This game's strategies are not 50% "nuke plus three dancers", 50% "invincible hypertank". You seem to be living in this bizarro world where 99% of perfectly workable strategies are unthinkable - ones like just throwing together some color balanced units with decent stats and having them be good enough without doing anything special. 

We know how the Limited Hero Battles work: they're existing hero battles with enemies one difficulty level lower than they say they are, so GHB/BHB "Infernal" enemies top out at Lunatic and LHB "Abyssal" enemies top out at Infernal. We're not fighting actual Abyssal enemies or Aether Raids teams here. It's okay to relax and take it easy. 

[XRay]

51 minutes ago, Othin said:

This game's strategies are not 50% "nuke plus three dancers", 50% "invincible hypertank". You seem to be living in this bizarro world where 99% of perfectly workable strategies are unthinkable - ones like just throwing together some color balanced units with decent stats and having them be good enough without doing anything special. 

Nuke plus 3 Dancers/Singers is the most efficient and cost effective strategy for PvE. You do not need 3 Dancers/Singers on every Player Phase team, but the vast majority of Player Phase teams need at least 1 Dancer/Singer, just as the vast majority of Enemy Phase teams run some form of Quick Riposte.

Strategies outside of nuke and 3 Dancers/Singers takes a lot more finagling. Not everyone is interested in making less effective strategies work when there is already a superior strategy available.

51 minutes ago, Othin said:

We know how the Limited Hero Battles work: they're existing hero battles with enemies one difficulty level lower than they say they are, so GHB/BHB "Infernal" enemies top out at Lunatic and LHB "Abyssal" enemies top out at Infernal. We're not fighting actual Abyssal enemies or Aether Raids teams here. It's okay to relax and take it easy. 

I guess that is fair, and there is always Pheonixmaster 1 if all else fails.

Edited April 13, 2020 by XRay

[Othin]

34 minutes ago, XRay said:

Nuke plus 3 Dancers/Singers is the most efficient and cost effective strategy for PvE. You do not need 3 Dancers/Singers on every Player Phase team, but the vast majority of Player Phase teams need at least 1 Dancer/Singer, just as the vast majority of Enemy Phase teams run some form of Quick Riposte.

Strategies outside of nuke and 3 Dancers/Singers takes a lot more finagling. Not everyone is interested in making less effective strategies work when there is already a superior strategy available.

I guess that is fair, and there is always Pheonixmaster 1 if all else fails.

It's the most efficient strategy for most PvE. When you're locked to 0-1 dancers by Limited Hero Battle rules, it's no longer the most efficient strategy because it isn't a strategy at all, so you have to find something else.

As for cost effective, the most cost effective strategy is to take units you already have good sets for and use them without doing any further upgrades. Lots of units come pre-built to murder large swaths of moderate-stated enemies, like the Altina everyone just got for free. Altina is also one example of an enemy phase unit that doesn't need Quick Riposte, and there are plenty of others like Lif and Osian. And for those that do, you can already attach it to one unit per team without inheriting it because of the Sacred Seal.

I'm also noticing that you keep talking about teams as being either a "player phase team" or an "enemy phase team". Lots of teams aren't either one of those, they're just... good units. Like, my current Arena core is Black Knight, Winter Jaffar, and Naesala. Jaffar functions as an enemy phase unit with Close Counter, Naesala functions as a player phase unit with Galeforce, and BK can do either one with Bold Fighter and Steady Breath. And then there's the bonus unit who just kinda hangs out and grabs a kill somewhere. It's not a perfect team, but it works.

Edited April 13, 2020 by Othin

[Hilda]

4 hours ago, Tybrosion said:

Watch Fallen Takumi be Heroes-only just to screw me, and only me, over specifically.

Though to be honest, the thought that there may be a Heroes-only one eventually does actually concern me a bit.

you underestimate the power of a properly built Anna Sharena and Alfonse ._.. I doubt Heroes only will happen though i would be positiv surprised if it does! Since i cleared everything with them allready!

[Hilda]

2 hours ago, XRay said:

 

Even if we compare Fury 3 to Steady Posture 2, I would argue Fury is better than Steady Posture despite Steady Posture giving more stats that matter (Fury's Def/Res boosts are irrelevant). Fury's Atk/Spd+3 are 6 points in stats that matter during every round of combat. Steady Posture's Spd+4 matter during every round of combat, but that Def+4 only matters half the time (assuming the unit is fighting equal numbers of magical and physical enemies), so on average, Steady Posture only provides 6 points in stats, which is basically the same as Fury. Fury also gives Player Phase units the benefit of reaching Desperation range easier, while Steady Posture on the other hand offers nothing else until it hits tier 3 for the Guard effect.

.

you never used much enemy phase units in anything much right? because Fury is most of the time a very awfull Enemy phase skill pick and should only be used if you can offset the after combat damage it causes. From personal Askrtrio experience for GHB the best enemy phase skills are:
Distant Counter (obviously)
all Bond skills AND Seals! because they work on enemy and playerphase!
Drive Seals and skills
Steady Seals
Chills

Quick Riposte is overrated for most GHB units, because a based 30-35 SPD unit can meet the speed check quite easy nowadays on Infernal and should only be used if you are fighting something that prevents follow up attacks. If you only need to check a specific type of unti on a GHB map a breaker skill is more efficient because it works on enemy phase and player phase. Most used breaker skill from my side is/was Shuriken/Dagger breaker

As a side note you want to run a Healer along side an enemy phase unit (OMG healign i KNOW CRAZY!!!?)

[XRay]

1 hour ago, Othin said:

As for cost effective, the most cost effective strategy is to take units you already have good sets for and use them without doing any further upgrades. Lots of units come pre-built to murder large swaths of moderate-stated enemies, like the Altina everyone just got for free. Altina is also one example of an enemy phase unit that doesn't need Quick Riposte, and there are plenty of others like Lif and Osian. And for those that do, you can already attach it to one unit per team without inheriting it because of the Sacred Seal.

That is only if you are lucky and you got the right units with fully built skill kits. For players that do not, they have to rely on units from the 3*/4* pool. Altina will need to run Quick Riposte or Guard on B because Vantage does squat against high bulk enemies. You can run Quick Riposte on the Sacred Seal slot, but you also need run Guard on the B slot, and that also takes another 20,000 Feathers. Altina is also a dual phase unit, and is very different mechanically from a regular Enemy Phase unit. Altina gives up a lot of protection on Enemy Phase to make her dual phase work.

1 hour ago, Othin said:

I'm also noticing that you keep talking about teams as being either a "player phase team" or an "enemy phase team". Lots of teams aren't either one of those, they're just... good units. Like, my current Arena core is Black Knight, Winter Jaffar, and Naesala. Jaffar functions as an enemy phase unit with Close Counter, Naesala functions as a player phase unit with Galeforce, and BK can do either one with Bold Fighter and Steady Breath. And then there's the bonus unit who just kinda hangs out and grabs a kill somewhere. It's not a perfect team, but it works.

For easy modes like Arena and Arena Assault, practically any team works. My current Arena team has Tactics buffs equipped despite my Askr Trio bonus units never benefiting from it. For difficult PvE content, they work too if you do not mind spending a lot of extra time making things work. There is little repercussion from trying over and over again.

For Aether Raids, team composition and synergy is really important. If you are just maintaining Tier 21, then yeah, sure, anything works. If you are trying to maintain a good Tier for rewards though, a player needs a more synergized team than that.

Not everyone wants to spend over an hour on Abyssal either, and Altina certainly is not going to help you beat it in under 15-20 minutes consistently. Not everyone wants to waste time using their favorite characters or wants to seek a challenge.

1 hour ago, Hilda said:

you never used much enemy phase units in anything much right? because Fury is most of the time a very awfull Enemy phase skill pick and should only be used if you can offset the after combat damage it causes.

I am comparing Fury's Player Phase to Steady Posture's Enemy Phase, that is why I mentioned Fury's Def/Res being irrelevant. I am comparing their performance as well as their cost:

3 hours ago, XRay said:

Even if we compare Fury 3 to Steady Posture 2, I would argue Fury is better than Steady Posture despite Steady Posture giving more stats that matter (Fury's Def/Res boosts are irrelevant). Fury's Atk/Spd+3 are 6 points in stats that matter during every round of combat. Steady Posture's Spd+4 matter during every round of combat, but that Def+4 only matters half the time (assuming the unit is fighting equal numbers of magical and physical enemies), so on average, Steady Posture only provides 6 points in stats, which is basically the same as Fury. Fury also gives Player Phase units the benefit of reaching Desperation range easier, while Steady Posture on the other hand offers nothing else until it hits tier 3 for the Guard effect.

Fury 3 and Life and Death 3 are cheap, and their closest equivalent in terms of effectiveness would be A slot Breath skills, but they are 5* exclusive. Desperation 3 is also cheap, but its closest equivalents, Quick Riposte and Guard, requires 20,000 Feathers. Steady Posture 2 and Quick Riposte 2 are cheap too, but they pale in comparison to their Player Phase counterparts for their current price range. 20,000 Feathers is not much for a veteran player with a built up Barracks, but it is extremely expensive for new players who are building their Barracks up from scratch.

1 hour ago, Hilda said:

Quick Riposte is overrated for most GHB units, because a based 30-35 SPD unit can meet the speed check quite easy nowadays on Infernal and should only be used if you are fighting something that prevents follow up attacks. If you only need to check a specific type of unti on a GHB map a breaker skill is more efficient because it works on enemy phase and player phase. Most used breaker skill from my side is/was Shuriken/Dagger breaker

Not every Enemy Phase unit can or want to reach 30-35 Spd. Enemy Phase tanks of the slow variety want to be as slow as possible to activate their Special more consistently, so they need Quick Riposte.

1 hour ago, Hilda said:

As a side note you want to run a Healer along side an enemy phase unit (OMG healign i KNOW CRAZY!!!?)

I know I typed a wall of text, but if you can quote it, at least read through it so I do not have to repeat myself.

I know it is necessary for Enemy Phase teams to run healers or have some form of sustainability. I have already mentioned that and explained why it is a pain in the ass compared to Player Phase teams.

3 hours ago, XRay said:

Most Player Phase units can operate at any HP range, the vast majority will get even better when their HP gets lower, and they only have to worry about HP management once per unit per battle to hit Desperation range. Enemy Phase units on the other hand have to deal with constant HP management throughout the the battle to keep their HP topped up.

In case I have not made it clear, this is a summary of my position:

1. I am not a fan of the highly restrictive nature of LHBs.

2. I would be less opposed to LHBs if they are permanent.

2a. This allows new players to take their time to complete them.

2b. This reduces the massive resource gap between new players and veteran players.

3. I would be less opposed to LHBs if they make Enemy Phase teams cheaper and easier to use.

3a. Enemy Phase units are unnecessarily more expensive to build.

3aa. Fury 3, Life and Death 3, and Desperation 3 are the about the equivalent of Steady Breath, Warding Breath, and Quick Riposte 3, but Steady Breath and Warding Breath are 5* exclusives while Quick Riposte costs 20,000 Feathers.

3ab. While Steady Posture 2 and Quick Riposte 2 cost the same as Fury 3 and Desperation 3, Steady Posture 2 and Quick Riposte 2 are not on the same level of effectiveness as Fury 3 and Desperation 3. 

3b. Player Phase teams enjoy the convenience of the in-game battle predictor. The closest Enemy Phase equivalent would be Re-Act, as the Enemy Phase player can "preview" the battle and then Re-Act to adjust their moves. Re-Act is not available in all modes and it is only available to paying players.

Edited April 13, 2020 by XRay

[Zeo]

Game's been pouring Divine Codes on us thankfully. I'm sitting at 888 and will probably be able to grab Close Counter in a month or two at the rate things are going.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Zeo

[Othin]

23 minutes ago, XRay said:

That is only if you are lucky and you got the right units with fully built skill kits. For players that do not, they have to rely on units from the 3*/4* pool. Altina will need to run Quick Riposte or Guard on B because Vantage does squat against high bulk enemies. You can run Quick Riposte on the Sacred Seal slot, but you also need run Guard on the B slot, and that also takes another 20,000 Feathers. Altina is also a dual phase unit, and is very different mechanically from a regular Enemy Phase unit. Altina gives up a lot of protection on Enemy Phase to make her dual phase work.

Well-built skill kits are everywhere. It's hard to not have a few at this point

Altina doesn't need Quick Riposte or Guard, what are you talking about? All she needs is to pick her battles against units she can kill with counter-Vantage. In Aether Raids, that can be tricky at times, but we're not talking about Aether Raids, we're talking about Hero Battles where dancers are almost nonexistent.

23 minutes ago, XRay said:

For easy modes like Arena and Arena Assault, practically any team works. My current Arena team has Tactics buffs equipped despite my Askr Trio bonus units never benefiting from it. For difficult PvE content, they work too if you do not mind spending a lot of extra time making things work. There is little repercussion from trying over and over again.

Yes, and Limited Hero Battles are an easy mode that also has zero repercussions for trying again. Practically any team works as long as it's legal, that's my whole point.

23 minutes ago, XRay said:

For Aether Raids, team composition and synergy is really important. If you are just maintaining Tier 21, then yeah, sure, anything works. If you are trying to maintain a good Tier for rewards though, a player needs a more synergized team than that.

I regularly get to Tier 25-26 in Aether Raids with teams like Eir/Peony/Cecilia/Dancer!Micaiah(+filler) and Altina/Naga/Aversa/Rinea(+filler), you don't need that much synergy.

23 minutes ago, XRay said:

Not everyone wants to spend over an hour on Abyssal either, and Altina certainly is not going to help you beat it in under 15-20 minutes consistently. Not everyone wants to waste time using their favorite characters or wants to seek a challenge.

Again, we're talking about Limited Hero Battles, where there is no real Abyssal mode and the weird characters you're using are because the game demands it rather than a self-imposed challenge.

If people aren't up to spending the time it takes to figure out how to do it, that's their choice.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Othin

[XRay]

24 minutes ago, Othin said:

Well-built skill kits are everywhere. It's hard to not have a few at this point

Altina doesn't need Quick Riposte or Guard, what are you talking about? All she needs is to pick her battles against units she can kill with counter-Vantage. In Aether Raids, that can be tricky at times, but we're not talking about Aether Raids, we're talking about Hero Battles where dancers are almost nonexistent.

For easy modes, sure, but Counter-Vantage is not going to cut it against Infernal bulk. Infernal bulk frequently hits 90s or higher.

27 minutes ago, Othin said:

Yes, and Limited Hero Battles are an easy mode that also has zero repercussions for trying again. Practically any team works as long as it's legal, that's my whole point.

Oliver's map is easy, but I am not sure if other maps will be as easy. Any team can work, but it could also mean a lot of trial and error. Not everyone wants to spend an hour or two solving a map. There is also a strict 1 day time limit for players to complete the map.

I know Pheonixmaster1 exists, but not everyone got the resources to do his strategies immediately. I got 60,000 Feathers and I can easily grind through the rest of Chain Challenges for more, but not everyone has that. I got practically every useful Sacred Seal now, and I am near the point of contemplating upgrading Defiant Sacred Seals, but many players are nowhere near that point.

40 minutes ago, Othin said:

I regularly get to Tier 25-26 in Aether Raids with teams like Eir/Peony/Cecilia/Dancer!Micaiah(+filler) and Altina/Naga/Aversa/Rinea(+filler), you don't need that much synergy.

Not everyone is a tactician. I am about average. I spent my way to a Gold Throne using an expensive Kronya team, and even then, I still have to wait for Infantry Pulse teams to die down before it was close to possible for me.

46 minutes ago, Othin said:

Again, we're talking about Limited Hero Battles, where there is no real Abyssal mode and the weird characters you're using are because the game demands it rather than a self-imposed challenge.

If people aren't up to spending the time it takes to figure out how to do it, that's their choice.

If we are talking strictly LHBs, then Altina is not even a valid unit to use for most of them.

If the resources are left permanently there for players to claim any time they want, then sure, I think it is fine for players to solve through it slowly, just like Grandmaster Tactics Drills. Even regular Abyssal maps have some sort of frequent rotation and they do not offer any significant rewards. However, LHBs have a strict 1 day time limit and we do not even know if they would be recycled like GHBs, LHBs, and MHBs.

 

[Othin]

10 minutes ago, XRay said:

For easy modes, sure, but Counter-Vantage is not going to cut it against Infernal bulk. Infernal bulk frequently hits 90s or higher.

I just grabbed Altina and some other FE10 characters (Naesala, Dancer Micaiah, and Yune) and sent them into Iago's Infernal map and they cleared it just fine. I couldn't just close my eyes and let the game play itself, but it was not hard to have Altina move near the enemies she could handle and blow them up with Vantage while keeping her away from ones she couldn't.

13 minutes ago, XRay said:

Oliver's map is easy, but I am not sure if other maps will be as easy. Any team can work, but it could also mean a lot of trial and error. Not everyone wants to spend an hour or two solving a map. There is also a strict 1 day time limit for players to complete the map.

I know Pheonixmaster1 exists, but not everyone got the resources to do his strategies immediately. I got 60,000 Feathers and I can easily grind through the rest of Chain Challenges for more, but not everyone has that. I got practically every useful Sacred Seal now, and I am near the point of contemplating upgrading Defiant Sacred Seals, but many players are nowhere near that point.

Well, you have a choice. You can either make sure you're prepared to stomp these maps with relative ease, you can go in unprepared and clear them anyway after a bit of work, or you can just pass on the highest difficulty levels of them. Where's the problem?

And no, it's not a 1 day time limit. Oliver's map is up for a full week. I think it might be that they'll all end at the end of that week, which would mean only 3 days for the last one? Which is a bit annoying, but it's still plenty more lenient than 1 day.

PM1's strategies are generally not very resource intensive, and I think that'll be especially true for these maps since the enemy strength is not particularly high. If you have the most important Sacred Seals and some decent 4* fodder, you're in a pretty good spot. New players may not be up to it immediately, but again, I think it's fine for them to have something to work up to.

19 minutes ago, XRay said:

Not everyone is a tactician. I am about average. I spent my way to a Gold Throne using an expensive Kronya team, and even then, I still have to wait for Infantry Pulse teams to die down before it was close to possible for me.

Sure, but this is a tactics game we're talking about. It's fine for it to reward good tactics.

I haven't scored enough for another gold throne in a while, but I currently have 15.

23 minutes ago, XRay said:

If we are talking strictly LHBs, then Altina is not even a valid unit to use for most of them.

If the resources are left permanently there for players to claim any time they want, then sure, I think it is fine for players to solve through it slowly, just like Grandmaster Tactics Drills. Even regular Abyssal maps have some sort of frequent rotation and they do not offer any significant rewards. However, LHBs have a strict 1 day time limit and we do not even know if they would be recycled like GHBs, LHBs, and MHBs.

Altina is a valid unit for LHBs that allow Radiant Dawn units, which is what the hardest map of this batch will do. In the long term, most of them won't, but my reason for bringing up Altina isn't to say "use Altina", it's to say that she's an example of the sorts of units that can carry a lot of the weight in these battles with little to no investment.

Every other Hero Battle type so far has been recycled, I think it's pretty likely that these will return at some point as well.

[Icelerate]

Was infernal Oliver equivalent to lunatic Oliver? 

[Othin]

28 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Was infernal Oliver equivalent to lunatic Oliver? 

Huh. I'd heard that was how it was supposed to work, but checking the enemy stats, infernal Oliver enemies actually have the same stats as the original infernal Oliver.