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1 hour ago, daisy jane said:
 

 

I don't know. i mean. honestly, i would like to spend my orbs on what i want.  when i'm summoning i'm not hoping for pity breakers  - i'm hoping to get the unit i want as quickly as possible, and if i have to get pity broken, it's someone with good/awesome fodder - which a huge chunk of year 2 (and i think as we've all pointed out, the majority of year 1 doesn't have). I guess in my mind if i wanted the Snap'ed unit enough - i would save some orbs to try to get a copy - vs making it harder to get the desired "better unit" - which is what having a bloated 5* pool does. and Demoting them does nothing but bloat the 3-4* pool with more units that don't have that much fodder to give. 


I guess it's an each their own here. i do see your point, sort of though. 

for the amount of units that get swift sparrow (or now atk/spd push etc) - you'd think by now we'd A: have swift sparrow in the summoning pool, more brazen options, push 3 (for better inheritance). 4* def smoke and res tactic, spd tactic distant and close guards, and Atk/Spd, Atk/Res rallies, solos - and more staves - simply (if anything) to make inheritance easier if nothing else. You shouldn't need 2-3 copies to give to one unit. (for goodness sakes, can we please have guard lance and sword in the pool too)

 

Personally, I'll take an old unit with absolutely no practical use that I've never gotten before over any new unit with great fodder that I already have a copy of. So maximizing the variety of units in a given pool is optimal for me, it gives the best odds of getting new ones.

Pity breakers are never what I most want, but I've been quite happy with plenty of them, and they're something I always account for as a benefit on banners that offer them. For example, I recently got Siegbert as a pity breaker, a unit I've wanted for a long time but has always been so far down my priority list that I would never have pulled specifically for him. 

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12 hours ago, Vicious Sal said:

It’s literally the worst idea from an objective standpoint.

There is nothing objective about it. The moment someone starts touting their opinion on demotions as objective fact, that's when you know the discussion is done.

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I would prefer that they keep the weekly revivals rather than demotions or grails, because my feathers and grails are in constant demand as is. It's kind of refreshing having very accessible 5 star units with high summon rates, since I can occassionally have a new 5 star merge project without delaying all of my feather/grail projects.

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My main issues with the weekly revivals is that the majority of the characters really don't deserve to be 5-star anymore. They're worse than some of the 3-4 star units being directly demoted into the pool. If you want them, you're basically going out of your way to spend orbs on outdated characters that don't have any business even being 5-star anymore when there are things like legendary, seasonal, and new heroes spark banners that your orbs would be better spent on. And if any of these newer banners have stuff are worth more to me then I have to indefinitely put off summoning on the weekly revivals until you somehow hit that sweet spot where you have no other banners you want to summon on and a lot of orbs.

4% pull rate and 3 characters doesn't guarantee you'll summon anything. Last time I tried to summon for Ayra, all I got was a high percentage rate and no 5-star in general. And I've not gotten Sigurd on his banner even when I tried.

The current 3-4 star pool is pretty stale anyway. I don't think we should ever obliterate those units because new players who come into the game will not have the characters the rest of us have hundreds of copies of them, but IS should really consider moving the book 1 3-4 stars to a separate permanent pool or something. Something that can be summoned with the WAAAAY too many arena medals that we've accumulated, or let us do one free summon on it daily.

There are a lot of solutions to the outdated 5-star units and 3-4 star pool that IS could do, but they won't because they're greedy and want to do whatever is the lowest effort to do so.

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4 hours ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

There is nothing objective about it. The moment someone starts touting their opinion on demotions as objective fact, that's when you know the discussion is done.

You are correct, when following logic, facts and statistics discussions tend to end, because it is quite hard to argue facts.

 

- Revival banners with year 1 5* focuses offer way higher appearance rates for said units than demotions into the 3/4* pool. 

- For collection purposes, the cost of 100 grails is f2p and low enough that everyone can get a desired unit in roughly two weeks for free. Always cheaper than spending orbs.

- The same applies for +10’s the timeframe for grails or codes is similar to saving the orbs to summon on a revival banner. A revival banner +10 red unit costs around 1050 orbs, if that unit was in the demote pool, it would cost around 300 orbs more, and that is without counting the 45 added units that further dilute the pool. So the actual number is higher.

So yeah, objective facts and statistics actually do end the discussion. 

 

You can have an opinion and preference, that is fine, but the fact is that demoting these units compared to keeping the revival banners is bad for your orb cost. There is no way around that.

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Hmm, well not entirely certain about what the current topic is in here, but I will echo that getting pity broken by someone who you always wanted but would never, ever spend an orb on willingly is super nice!

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3 hours ago, Vicious Sal said:

You are correct, when following logic, facts and statistics discussions tend to end, because it is quite hard to argue facts.

So yeah, objective facts and statistics actually do end the discussion. 

The one and only thing that sets me off in these forums is arrogant bullshit like this. It's happened again. Keep this arrogant bullshit to yourself. You're touting opinion, not fact. You have nothing objective here, it's all personal preference for how you would prefer to have these units spread and how you'd prefer grail units dispersed. Your "takes about 1,050 orbs" only shows it's subjective, because that is not what always happens. Some people get what they want for 500 orbs and have a much easier time, others take 1,000 and have a harder time. The number is too flexible to make what you're saying objective, therefore your statistics are flawed and your opinion is just that, subjective opinion. It is not objective, don't talk to me with that arrogant pissant attitude, and piss off until you pull your head out of your ass.

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4 hours ago, Vicious Sal said:

You are correct, when following logic, facts and statistics discussions tend to end, because it is quite hard to argue facts.

 

- Revival banners with year 1 5* focuses offer way higher appearance rates for said units than demotions into the 3/4* pool. 

- For collection purposes, the cost of 100 grails is f2p and low enough that everyone can get a desired unit in roughly two weeks for free. Always cheaper than spending orbs.

- The same applies for +10’s the timeframe for grails or codes is similar to saving the orbs to summon on a revival banner. A revival banner +10 red unit costs around 1050 orbs, if that unit was in the demote pool, it would cost around 300 orbs more, and that is without counting the 45 added units that further dilute the pool. So the actual number is higher.

So yeah, objective facts and statistics actually do end the discussion. 

 

You can have an opinion and preference, that is fine, but the fact is that demoting these units compared to keeping the revival banners is bad for your orb cost. There is no way around that.

Going out of your way to pull a unit from a revival banner costs like 100 orbs, already having them because they were demoted and showed up in your barracks on their own costs 0 orbs. 0 orbs is less than 100 orbs, and also less than 100 grails.

Being a demote basically translates to unlimited copies for free, and you can't do better than free.

5 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

No trailer. Weird. I was certain it would go up tonight.

Could have been either tonight or tomorrow night, so I guess it's tomorrow. I'd figured it was like 50/50 odds. Although I was certainly hoping for tonight.

Edited by Othin

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5 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

No trailer. Weird. I was certain it would go up tonight.

Eh, they've never been completely consistent with the trailers. That said, Seliph's trailer last month was two days before.

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11 hours ago, Othin said:

So maximizing the variety of units in a given pool is optimal for me, it gives the best odds of getting new ones.

It depends on the ratio of units you have versus units you don’t have. E.G. say there are 40 units in the pool, and you have 20 of them. If 15 units are removed, 10 of those you already had, then you have 10 of the 25 units left, and so have better odds of getting a new unit.

Of course, everyone’s opinion of a desirable pitybreaker is different. But in general, older units are more likely to have been obtained one way or another, and less likely to have good fodder that would make them still desirable as a pitybreaker.

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5 hours ago, Baldrick said:

 

It depends on the ratio of units you have versus units you don’t have. E.G. say there are 40 units in the pool, and you have 20 of them. If 15 units are removed, 10 of those you already had, then you have 10 of the 25 units left, and so have better odds of getting a new unit.

Of course, everyone’s opinion of a desirable pitybreaker is different. But in general, older units are more likely to have been obtained one way or another, and less likely to have good fodder that would make them still desirable as a pitybreaker.

That's true, although it can get more complicated in the long term.

Personally, one thing I like about having separate new banner vs revival pools is that I can adjust my orb spending while keeping the different pitybreaker pools in mind. The closer I get to completing the set of Book 1 units, the more I can shift my priorities to the new banners. If I ever get all of them, the old pool becomes a strict downgrade and something I can try to avoid as much as possible, but in the meantime, it has its benefits. Or, more immediately, if I get all the old pool units I care about of a given color, I'll know to avoid sniping that color on revival banners. (I'm already sort of there with blue, since the only Book 1 blue units I'm missing are Olwen and Lute, and I already have a version of Lute, while Olwen has a Book 2 alt so I can expect to eventually get a version of her from pulling on new banners, as long as the Book 2 units stay available in them.)

Edited by Othin

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In the next mythic banner there Will bê a New legendary hero? Also Roy qnd Altina comes back to summon, right?

Edited by Arhuhamel

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Well I promoted my first Naesala today. I am not the biggest fan of the beast units but maybe Naesala can help me change my mind. (and once again. Cordelia (or some other unit i need to slow up merge, loses out). I needed to do it because of the guide - RB is getting stupidly difficult. I could barely do it as it is. but again. I know Naesala is really good so it's not that big of a deal per se

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10 minutes ago, Arhuhamel said:

In the next mythic banner there Will bê a New legendary hero? Also Roy qnd Altina comes back to summon, right?

No, just a new mythic. The end-of-month banners always introduce one new unit: legendaries on even-numbered months, mythics on odd-numbered ones.

The known parts of the banner are posted here, and do include Roy and Altina: 

 

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14 minutes ago, Othin said:

No, just a new mythic. The end-of-month banners always introduce one new unit: legendaries on even-numbered months, mythics on odd-numbered ones.

The known parts of the banner are posted here, and do include Roy and Altina: 

 

Got It, and the banner with new hero and the banner with Roy and Altina comes July 30th?

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9 minutes ago, Arhuhamel said:

Got It, and the banner with new hero and the banner with Roy and Altina comes July 30th?

Yes. The trailer introducing the new mythic and showing the full list of characters on the banner should go up in 10 hours.

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32 minutes ago, Othin said:

Yes. The trailer introducing the new mythic and showing the full list of characters on the banner should go up in 10 hours.

Ok, thanks for the info

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20 hours ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

The one and only thing that sets me off in these forums is arrogant bullshit like this. It's happened again. Keep this arrogant bullshit to yourself. You're touting opinion, not fact. You have nothing objective here, it's all personal preference for how you would prefer to have these units spread and how you'd prefer grail units dispersed. Your "takes about 1,050 orbs" only shows it's subjective, because that is not what always happens. Some people get what they want for 500 orbs and have a much easier time, others take 1,000 and have a harder time. The number is too flexible to make what you're saying objective, therefore your statistics are flawed and your opinion is just that, subjective opinion. It is not objective, don't talk to me with that arrogant pissant attitude, and piss off until you pull your head out of your ass.

The only thing I have done is crunched the numbers and listed them to show that factually it is a bad idea on all accounts unless you have a huge budget for orbs, since that removes the limit on the resource. 

The fact that you are using the same kind of logic that SF used in 2009 to validate Nino as a top tier unit shows that there is no further use in trying to reason with you. I mean, the copious amounts of flaming were a strong indicator onto themselves, but saying that some people get lucky ans some don’t is the same as saying Nino is top tier because yours got blessed after grinding her for 100 turns on one map.

It’s the entire reason we use averages. If I told people the spring seasonal banner was a good orb investment because you had a free summon and 9 tickets, so you could technically get a +10 seasonal unit in 4 orbs, I’d be giving out terrible advice. 

The 50th percentile amount of orbs for getting revival units is lowest, and thus the best investment on the revival banners. Demotion chances are hundred of orbs more expensive. You’ll also be taking an even longer time unless you full circle everything or only summon on the colour your demote is in whilst looking for thee shiny new focus unit. Chances are however, that not every focus unit on a banner is going to colour share with the demote you want to +10.

I also would like to note that I have not stated my preference for a specific alternative anywhere. My post merely used statistic and facts to show that the odds are best the way they are now, and I offered some other alternatives that would suit people like collecters that just want a full dex whilst staying f2p. My only preference is not throwing them in the demote pool, and I have logical evidence to back up why I know it is a bad idea.

So please, quit making a fool out of yourself since you don’t even seem to grasp basic math concerning chance. 

I even acknowledged that you are entitled to having your own preference, even if it is based on faulty logic. I won’t stop you from having a preference, since it does not meaningfully impact my life in any way. 

The fact that you’re trying to shout down others with flaming and insults whilst sitting smugly in the saddle of your high horse, I do take issue with however. Especially when you’re your counterargument boils down to ‘not everyone has the same outcome’. No shit, it’s chance based, someone might summon 5 focus units in their first session. Is that accurate and reliable data for the rest of the playerbase? No. It’s why averages exist, they are literally designed to tell you what the most likely outcome will be. In the demotion scenario you might get lucky you said. But you can say the same about the revival banner. It is an empty claim. It’s the entire reason calculations are made. But alas, you don’t seem to grasp that so it’s no further use trying to explain this. 

As said before, you’re welcome to keep having your preference, but there is absolutely no need to start blurting out insults just because someone backed up their point of view with logic.

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4 minutes ago, Vicious Sal said:

The only thing I have done is crunched the numbers and listed them to show that factually it is a bad idea on all accounts unless you have a huge budget for orbs, since that removes the limit on the resource. 

The fact that you are using the same kind of logic that SF used in 2009 to validate Nino as a top tier unit shows that there is no further use in trying to reason with you.

 

wait. why isn't nino a top tier unit? she is really good, i've always thought. 

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5 minutes ago, daisy jane said:

wait. why isn't nino a top tier unit? she is really good, i've always thought. 

I believe he's talking about Nino in FE7, given that the year he mentions is 2009. In Heroes, yes, she's pretty good. But I honestly think FE7 Nino is bad because she comes in too late and at lv. 1. So it's too hard to raise her. She might be good if you DO raise her enough, but the fact that it's so hard to when you get Pent who's already pretty good upon recruitment says she's just not worth it.

Edited by Anacybele

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6 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I believe he's talking about Nino in FE7, given that the year he mentions is 2009. In Heroes, yes, she's pretty good. But I honestly think FE7 Nino is bad because she comes in too late and at lv. 1. So it's too hard to raise her. She might be good if you DO raise her enough, but the fact that it's so hard to when you get Pent who's already pretty good upon recruitment says she's just not worth it.

Oho thanks Ana 🙂

ignore me please. Summer melts my brain. 

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Buh. Guess IS didn't want us to get off so easily with prior knowledge.

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