Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[Fabulously Olivier]

6 hours ago, NSSKG151 said:

I like Eirika but I'm not really of fan of this resplendent art, probably my least favorite along with Robin and Roy. Her face and eyes look off to me plus I never really was a fan of the fairies or their outfits.

As for my favorite Resplendent arts so far it's still Eliwood, Cordelia and Linde (funny enough all my favorites all decided to dress up in Askr garb).

The Askr and Embla alts have all been really high quality in general. Easily the best ones.

[Sunwoo]

16 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

I get what you're trying to say, but a melee unit as fragile as her (at least back in FE8 itself) has no business being on the front lines unless you're looking to get her killed. Plus, that's not even her intended role anyways. Her true destiny is to sit in Seth's back pocket (or cower in a corner) as he slaughters the entire game.

By that logic, Lyn had no business being on the frontlines either 😛

[Landmaster]

1 hour ago, Sunwoo said:

This is exactly why we need to get dudes in fairy attire. While I don't have an issue with other people liking fairies and the overall cutesy look, I hate the fact that we have so many fairies and only one dude fairy, making the fairies overall a WAY too feminine vibe that none of the other worlds Heroes has explored has. I think that it's a problem that the fairy look is considered "too girly" and that only "girly-looking dudes" would look good wearing it. A guy wearing fairy garb should be taken seriously just as a guy wearing Muspell garb or Hel garb or whatever is. Any male character should be able to rock the fairy outfit as long as it's designed with them in mind and it's not literally Peony's outfit recolored with no other changes.

 

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Also, this is more personal but I think the reason I don't like putting Eirika in the fairy outfit is because I don't really feel that it suits her. Eirika is a frontline fighter who leads an army in her route. And yes, while she's polite and feminine she also would put you down into the ground if she had to. Eirika's pretty analogous to Eliwood, in which they're both gentle and diplomatic nobles who hate fighting but will do so if it brings peace to their worlds. And they stand on the frontlines and fight alongside their troops despite their dislike of fighting. If Eirika were canonically a mage or a healer or a support unit, the fairy outfit would probably work on her despite my distaste for it, but it's a poor choice for a frontline fighter. It's bright and flashy and gaudy and has decorative wings. It'd work well on a dancer type, because dancers would want to wear something attention-catching, and it'd probably work well on mages. A dark fairy outfit might be a straight upgrade for someone like Tharja, depending on how they designed it. But I don't think it's a good choice for a frontline fighter.

 

Eirika is extremely fitting IMO, she's supposed to be seen as overly naive at times and that's basically the Ljosalfar in a nutshell, namely Peony. Childlike innocence and dreams and such is their thing so while she may not be a perfect fit, I don't think that it doesn't suit her at all.

[Tybrosion]

14 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

By that logic, Lyn had no business being on the frontlines either 😛

Well, yes actually since Eirika was more or less Lyn 2.0 in terms of stats. Though at the very least, Eirika gets a horse unlike Lyn.

[Anacybele]

1 hour ago, Sunwoo said:

This is exactly why we need to get dudes in fairy attire. While I don't have an issue with other people liking fairies and the overall cutesy look, I hate the fact that we have so many fairies and only one dude fairy, making the fairies overall a WAY too feminine vibe that none of the other worlds Heroes has explored has. I think that it's a problem that the fairy look is considered "too girly" and that only "girly-looking dudes" would look good wearing it. A guy wearing fairy garb should be taken seriously just as a guy wearing Muspell garb or Hel garb or whatever is. Any male character should be able to rock the fairy outfit as long as it's designed with them in mind and it's not literally Peony's outfit recolored with no other changes.

I'm not talking about the fairy look in just this game. I'm talking about in general. There are other examples, even in gaming too. Look at the Great Fairies in Zelda. All female, super feminine looks and outfits. And then outside of gaming, look at the Disney Fairies franchise. A vast majority of them are female too, and the main ones are all female.

Then I'll also point you to an old animated movie called Fern Gully. Guess what gender most of the fairies are here?

The only example of a notable male fairy I can think of is Prince Cornelius from the animated classic Thumbelina. Though I will admit, if a male in a ljosalfar outfit looked something along the lines of this guy, then that actually might work. Just take a look.

I couldn't find a full screenshot of him for some reason. But all that's really not shown are his red shoes. For some reason, this dude is the only male fairy I've ever liked and the only one I can think of that actually played a major role in what he comes from. All others I've seen are just plain weird and have little relevance. Though Freyr looks fine for what he's meant to be and do, I just can't picture many FE males wearing anything akin to his look. Something like Cornelius here would be all I could get behind. He's even got a sword! (And he's pretty good with it too, if memory serves. A guy who pulls off a good fairy design/look, doesn't care that his parents dislike his lifestyle, AND can kick some butt in a fight? Cornelius is really something unique and special and that's why he's still one of my favorite animated movie characters to this day!)

So either give me ljosalfar outfit FE guys that dress something like Cornelius or just give me females, plz. Just how I feel. I just think it's really difficult to pull off a male fairy design that doesn't look weird or drag queenish.

Also, Eirika may function as a frontline fighter, but remember she dislikes fighting and prefers peace and stuff. The fairies don't seem to enjoy fighting either.

Edited August 8, 2020 by Anacybele

[Othin]

Personally, I say Heroes could use more crossdressing in the first place.

[Sunwoo]

13 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Snip

Yeah, and I still think that's an overall problem. There really is no reason that fairies should be so heavily slanted towards being female. There is no reason why male fairies cannot both look good and be taken seriously either. Honestly, the reason why fairies are so predominantly female is probably because fairy merchandise is often marketed towards little girls who'd prefer to see female characters they can relate to more than male characters. And yeah, that's fine, since I can't think of too many little boys who'd be excited at fairies. But that's still not a good reason to basically make fairies exclusively female or for male fairies to be "a joke" compared to the female ones.

There's a general issue in media that seems to either devalue or not take guys seriously if they're not "stereotypically male", and that honestly is a problem.

[Anacybele]

15 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Yeah, and I still think that's an overall problem. There really is no reason that fairies should be so heavily slanted towards being female. There is no reason why male fairies cannot both look good and be taken seriously either. Honestly, the reason why fairies are so predominantly female is probably because fairy merchandise is often marketed towards little girls who'd prefer to see female characters they can relate to more than male characters. And yeah, that's fine, since I can't think of too many little boys who'd be excited at fairies. But that's still not a good reason to basically make fairies exclusively female or for male fairies to be "a joke" compared to the female ones.

There's a general issue in media that seems to either devalue or not take guys seriously if they're not "stereotypically male", and that honestly is a problem.

Generally, I agree, yeah. But it's just so hard. As a fan of Cornelius, I'd love to see more actually well designed male fairies like him. But it's a challenge and some may think it's just safer/better not to take that challenge.

And I agree with that thing on devaluing or not taking seriously guys who aren't "stereotypically male" too, yeah.

Btw, isn't Marth's dad named Cornelius? Then Thumbelina's Cornelius even coincidentally shares his name with an FE character. lol

[SockPuppet]

Ephraim should be a fairy too because he and Eirika are in "do not separate" land, and he would like fabulous to boot~ 

Maybe Niles as well. Give him a skin tight outfit and wings, and we're good. He would love it as well~

[Anacybele]

Just now, SockPuppet said:

Ephraim should be a fairy too because he and Eirika are in "do not separate" land, and he would like fabulous to boot~ 

Maybe Niles as well. Give him a skin tight outfit and wings, and we're good. He would love it as well~

I'm still of the opinion that Ephraim should be in a Muspell outfit to match his Fire legendary self. But given that Ljosalfheimr Eirika exists now, it would make some sense for him to dress that way too, or in a Dokkalfheimr outfit. But I don't know about skin tight. That kind of thing on a guy is pretty hit and miss for me.

[Sunwoo]

2 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Generally, I agree, yeah. But it's just so hard. As a fan of Cornelius, I'd love to see more actually well designed male fairies like him. But it's a challenge and some may think it's just safer/better not to take that challenge.

And I agree with that thing on devaluing or not taking seriously guys who aren't "stereotypically male" too, yeah.

I actually don't think it'd be that hard, in all honesty. The main thing you need to find is an artist who isn't going to treat a male character using a fairy theme as a joke. Having Freyr as the only canon male fairy opens up more possibilities for the dudes as well, as long as artists don't feel like they have to be constrained to Freyr's outfit only. Who knows, maybe male fairies could have outfits more similar to, uh, Cornelius, with less emphasis on the floral theme than the girls do.

[Interdimensional Observer]

Oberon is a mythical male fairy, the king of the fairies married to their queen Titania. A Midsummer Night's Dream anyone? From what I've been told from secondhand sources, he is handsome, a flirt with the mortal ladies (Titania ain't happy about that), but was cursed to be no taller than a human three-year-old. 

[Anacybele]

2 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

I actually don't think it'd be that hard, in all honesty. The main thing you need to find is an artist who isn't going to treat a male character using a fairy theme as a joke. Having Freyr as the only canon male fairy opens up more possibilities for the dudes as well, as long as artists don't feel like they have to be constrained to Freyr's outfit only. Who knows, maybe male fairies could have outfits more similar to, uh, Cornelius, with less emphasis on the floral theme than the girls do.

Yeah, I agree with that. I wouldn't want a male character with a fairy theme to be treated as a joke either. But another problem is that IS is allergic to making many male OCs in Heroes at all. A blatant majority of them are female. 😕 This always bugs me.

Sounds like you haven't seen Thumbelina though. I watched it quite a few times growing up. It was one of my favorite non-Disney animated movies to watch as a kid, along with The Swan Princess. I recommend both of these to anybody who doesn't mind animated movies, they are masterpieces imo.

[Sunwoo]

3 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Yeah, I agree with that. I wouldn't want a male character with a fairy theme to be treated as a joke either. But another problem is that IS is allergic to making many male OCs in Heroes at all. A blatant majority of them are female. 😕 This always bugs me.

Yeah, although the "male OCs in Heroes" problem is a different issue than the "male fairies" thing. I feel like to IS, the only male character that matters is the main lord (because apparently they can't take a woman seriously as the main lord) while everyone who's not the main lord is just eye candy for the straight male audience. Apparently, despite being technically faceless, Kiran is supposed to represent the straight dudes.

3 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Sounds like you haven't seen Thumbelina though. I watched it quite a few times growing up. It was one of my favorite non-Disney animated movies to watch as a kid, along with The Swan Princess. I recommend both of these to anybody who doesn't mind animated movies, they are masterpieces imo.

I haven't seen it, yeah. Although I did watch Swan Princess. That one was just okay.

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, Sunwoo said:

Yeah, although the "male OCs in Heroes" problem is a different issue than the "male fairies" thing. I feel like to IS, the only male character that matters is the main lord (because apparently they can't take a woman seriously as the main lord) while everyone who's not the main lord is just eye candy for the straight male audience. Apparently, despite being technically faceless, Kiran is supposed to represent the straight dudes.

Yeah, agreed again, and Kiran being represented that way is what bothers me the most. It's like IS just assumes no females, especially straight females, play this game. It makes me uncomfortable when a female character makes a "move" on my summoner. I know it would be just as problematic if IS made Kiran more of a "straight female" or something else, so it would just be best if they kept other characters feelings towards them completely ambiguous. Fjorm having an implied crush on Kiran? Unless she's meant to be bisexual, get that crap out of here.

4 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

I haven't seen it, yeah. Although I did watch Swan Princess. That one was just okay.

Fair. As a kid who was hesitant to watch much of anything that wasn't animated Disney stuff, those two were special for me.

[Sunwoo]

11 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Yeah, agreed again, and Kiran being represented that way is what bothers me the most. It's like IS just assumes no females, especially straight females, play this game. It makes me uncomfortable when a female character makes a "move" on my summoner. I know it would be just as problematic if IS made Kiran more of a "straight female" or something else, so it would just be best if they kept other characters feelings towards them completely ambiguous. Fjorm having an implied crush on Kiran? Unless she's meant to be bisexual, get that crap out of here.

I think IS gave up pretending that Kiran is whatever the player wants them to be at some point. One of Valentine Eliwood's lines says, "You wish my advice on a gift for a lady you care for?" and Fjorm constantly crushing on Kiran. And Aversa and Loki fighting over Kiran. Now, is it possible that Kiran is a lesbian and the characters just "know" that Kiran is into girls? Sure, but I think it's simpler to assume that Kiran's a stand-in for the straight male audience Heroes is chasing.

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, Sunwoo said:

I think IS gave up pretending that Kiran is whatever the player wants them to be at some point. One of Valentine Eliwood's lines says, "You wish my advice on a gift for a lady you care for?" and Fjorm constantly crushing on Kiran. And Aversa and Loki fighting over Kiran. Now, is it possible that Kiran is a lesbian and the characters just "know" that Kiran is into girls? Sure, but I think it's simpler to assume that Kiran's a stand-in for the straight male audience Heroes is chasing.

Yeah, well, all that still bugs me and always will. I have to pretend those lines didn't happen or were different in my Heroes ficverse...

[Kaden]

Completely off-topic to what is currently being discussed, but I still find it odd that Mareeta doesn't have a version of the Od descendants' Astra. Technically she is the only one to learn it through an event and not have it by default, but she does learn it eventually like the other Od descendants who have Astra as a personal skill: Ayra, Galzus, Larcei, Shannan, and Ulster, and it would be odd if she was the only one to end up not having a personal Astra.

Galzus and Ulster are the remaining ones where Ulster probably would have Imperial Astra due to the naming convention that I guess was lost in translation and because he is Larcei's twin brother and, thus, an Isaach prince. Galzus is unique in that like his daughter, he has Luna as well as Astra, so if they don't want to give him Imperial Astra or a renamed one due to him being on the run if I understand his backstory correctly; Black Astra to reference his title as the Black Myrmidon or simply Exile's Astra or Fallen Astra. We do have a Luna-Astra special through Lunar Flash which I guess you could say is closer to Moonbow-Glimmer since it boosts damage by 20% of the user's speed and treats the foe's Def/Res as if it was reduced by 20%. I figured had Mareeta, regular Mareeta in particular, had a personal Astra that referenced her and her father's unique trait in having Luna and Astra as personal skills, they could have made it a 3 cooldown special, so perhaps a 30% of their speed and reduction of their foe's Def/Res, which kind of works like how Sirius has the same speed scaling, but since it heals 30% of the damage dealt and thus, isn't as powerful offensively, and on top of regular Sothis being a mythic, Sirius was a 2 cooldown special. Moonlit Astra perhaps? I wonder if there's enough space for a name such as that. Also on the subject of Galzus, while he only shows up with an axe for one chapter and a Master Axe at that, it would be nice if when Galzus is introduced that he is an axe infantry even though him being a sword infantry would probably make more sense.

Other than Galzus, Ulster, and probably Od if they were to introduce him as a legendary or mythic hero, the others with Od holy blood either do not have Astra as a personal skill in the case of Holyn or they are not playable or not seen in-game on the field in the cases of Mananan and Mariccle. The only one who I feel like has a case for having a personal Astra is Stefan given he is the only Tellius unit with it by default. It would probably have to be renamed if it has the same effects as Imperial and Regnal Astra, but if not, then I wonder what it would do other than perhaps being a 3 cooldown version with a higher scaling.

I doubt they would do this, but if they give Shanam a personal Astra, then it would kind of suck for Mareeta to not have something she actually learned and be the only Od descendent to have Astra in the Jugdral games not have it in Heroes. That said, they could make it a joke like it's ridiculously powerful, but horribly impractical. So, a False Astra with the effects of: "5 cooldown. Boosts damage by 50% of unit's Spd. Boosts damage dealt by 100%."

Edited August 8, 2020 by Kaden

[Jave]

5 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Yeah, I agree with that. I wouldn't want a male character with a fairy theme to be treated as a joke either. But another problem is that IS is allergic to making many male OCs in Heroes at all. A blatant majority of them are female. 😕 This always bugs me.

Sounds like you haven't seen Thumbelina though. I watched it quite a few times growing up. It was one of my favorite non-Disney animated movies to watch as a kid, along with The Swan Princess. I recommend both of these to anybody who doesn't mind animated movies, they are masterpieces imo.

Fairies being equated to girly is a trope that seriously needs to die.

Have you seen the movie Ferngully? Features an entire village of fairies almost equally divided on male and female.

Edited August 8, 2020 by Jave

[Xenomata]

@Kaden Honestly, I could write her not knowing Astra up to her "learning an imperfect version of Astra", since she does technically learn it from a sham.
I mean, technically Astra was in her blood, but for the events of Thracia she learned it from an unreliable source. It'd have been like she fell for a Nigerian prince scam, but she somehow made back twice the amount of money she lost from a lottery ticket the scammer left behind on accident.

[Kaden]

4 hours ago, Xenomata said:

@Kaden Honestly, I could write her not knowing Astra up to her "learning an imperfect version of Astra", since she does technically learn it from a sham.
I mean, technically Astra was in her blood, but for the events of Thracia she learned it from an unreliable source. It'd have been like she fell for a Nigerian prince scam, but she somehow made back twice the amount of money she lost from a lottery ticket the scammer left behind on accident.

That makes sense and regular Mareeta is probably before the end of Thracia or her own ending where she embarks on a journey to train and presumably end up learning Astra properly somehow or refining the Astra she has. I figure that they could give her a Luna-Astra special as a reference to her having those two skills in Thracia while also showing that her Astra is imperfect. That is to say, she supplements her imperfect Astra with Luna giving her a unique special of her own.

Her Astra, Little Astra, Little Star, or something to indicate it's not as refined as Imperial/Regnal Astra, could have the effects of "3 cooldown. Treats foe’s Def/Res as if reduced by 30% during combat. Boosts damage by 30% of unit's Spd." The higher cooldown and lower speed scaling would show it being unrefined compared to Imperial/Regnal Astra where the user is more readily able to use the skill and they are using Astra in a purer form, hence, not having the Luna part, but only relying on their speed stat. Because Mareeta is not using Luna completely, the Def/Res reduction is lower as well. Granted, it probably might be stronger than Imperial/Regnal Astra and considering that Mareeta's Sword has a Killer effect, so she would have the same cooldown as Ayra and Shannan who don't have a Killer effect on their personal swords. Galzus could have a renamed Lunar Flash to show his mastery of Astra and also how well he incorporated Luna into it or they could straight up give him a stronger version of his daughter's Astra while having the same or lower cooldown. Considering he does have Meisterschwert and Master Axe, it would be interesting for him to have a renamed Lunar Flash. A prf Brave that works on both phases, Lunar Flash, Distant Counter, Vantage, and Time's Pulse would be pretty disgusting.

I feel like this is something they could do with Priam as well where instead of just slapping Aether onto him or even Radiant Aether which might upset some people, Priam having a version of his own could work to show how his Aether has diverged from Ike's or how diluted it is from the perfected Radiant Aether and how it was locked to the Great Lord class forcing him to only have Sol and Luna in-game. Dude should also not have Ragnell, but a version of Ragnell or maybe an axe that grants him Axe-Lance-Swordbreaker and with some sort of effect that counters Null Follow-Up so the Axe-Lance-Swordbreaker effect always works.

Also, it just occurred to me that they have yet to introduce a 1 cooldown, probably personal special for non-healers. The only 1 cooldown specials in the game are Imbue and the stat buff specials healers have.

Edited August 8, 2020 by Kaden

[Othin]

20 minutes ago, Kaden said:

Also, it just occurred to me that they have yet to introduce a 1 cooldown, probably personal special for non-healers. The only 1 cooldown specials in the game are Imbue and the stat buff specials healers have.

The problem with that is that because Slaying weapons exist, it could have 0 cooldown. That would be... odd, although there are probably some effects that could be compatible with it.

[Kaden]

11 minutes ago, Othin said:

The problem with that is that because Slaying weapons exist, it could have 0 cooldown. That would be... odd, although there are probably some effects that could be compatible with it.

It would probably be weak or not that terribly strong to make up for having 1 cooldown, but I could still see them doing something like introduce Od and give him a 1 cooldown version of Imperial Astra and either his version of Balmung has a Killer effect or he has Time's Pulse if he's an infantry unit. The justification being the unit is a legendary or mythic for them to get something like that. Then again, I really want to see them give Rutger or whoever in the future a personal Killer weapon with "Accelerates Special trigger (cooldown count-1)" as the unique refinement or with "Accelerates Special trigger (cooldown count-2)" outright for a new unit.

Edited August 8, 2020 by Kaden

[Anacybele]

6 hours ago, Jave said:

Fairies being equated to girly is a trope that seriously needs to die.

Have you seen the movie Ferngully? Features an entire village of fairies almost equally divided on male and female.

Uh, yes. I did mention the film and its fairies, after all. I used it as an example because the main character is female and the rest are just there.

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, Othin said:

The problem with that is that because Slaying weapons exist, it could have 0 cooldown. That would be... odd, although there are probably some effects that could be compatible with it.

Infernal Ashnard had a zero-cooldown Dragon Fang, so we've already seen how they function. The only real issue is balancing it because any skills that boost Special damage could easily break it.