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eclipse

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2 minutes ago, Gima said:

Gharnef didn't have dark-type magic, but since he is a dark mage he most likely would in this game.

Considering Robin and Ursula has "Blue" magic, Lilina, Tharja, Sophia and Odin have "Red" magic, and Nino, Merric and have "Green" magic (plus Mooks that have magic based on their color), 

 

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I'd say it's safe to assume that all magic types classify units as "Red Mage" "Green Cavalier" "Blue Whatever", with Emphasis on Dark & Fire magic being "Red", Thunder being "Blue" and Wind being "Green". Since traditionally, Light trumps Dark, one might guess that Light magic users will be using Blue magic.

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17 minutes ago, Elieson said:

ACTUALLY UPON CLOSER INSPECTION OF THE OFFICIAL VIDEO

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Swirly Things are indeed handlers for identifying Dragon/Laguz/whatever. Check Corrin/Tiki/Tiki out for Blue/Red/Red swirlies

Neat. But the thing that worries(or bothers) me is the fact that they're all dragons so far. I can buy that future stone users/Laguz might get added to those categories, but it wouldn't make much sense.

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8 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Fazilla cares not for your colors :P:

For tomes, the last time we had a proper magic split was Tellius (I don't count Nosferatu in the 3DS games as a separate type).  Assuming we get the villains, I can see their signature tomes being non-elemental, at best.

Awakening had a full list of Dark Magic, but no Light Magic.

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2 minutes ago, Gima said:

Awakening had a full list of Dark Magic, but no Light Magic.

Awakening's Book of Naga did bonus dmg to Risen, and it technically is a "Light" tome by source. It's a stretch?

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Just now, Gima said:

Awakening had a full list of Dark Magic, but no Light Magic.

Dark magic in Awakening was something like Flux, Nosferatu, Mire, Aversa's Night, maybe some other random tome, and a bunch of enemy magic.  The only thing that differentiated dark magic from everything else was that it could be wielded by Dark Mages/Sorcerers/Shadowgift units.  A proper magic triangle would have differentiated between magic types (Anima > Light > Dark > Anima), at minimum.  Tellius took it a step further with the anima triangle, which I've never been arsed to memorize.

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Just now, Elieson said:

Awakening's Book of Naga did bonus dmg to Risen, and it technically is a "Light" tome by source. It's a stretch?

The person I was quoting, though, didn't count Nosferatsu as part of a magic split, and it's the same deal (only Dark Tome in Fates: Book of Naga is the only Light Tome in Awakening.)

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7 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Dark magic in Awakening was something like Flux, Nosferatu, Mire, Aversa's Night, maybe some other random tome, and a bunch of enemy magic.  The only thing that differentiated dark magic from everything else was that it could be wielded by Dark Mages/Sorcerers/Shadowgift units.  A proper magic triangle would have differentiated between magic types (Anima > Light > Dark > Anima), at minimum.  Tellius took it a step further with the anima triangle, which I've never been arsed to memorize.

OK, but Fire Emblem: Awakening does differ the magic types in ways beyond rock paper scissors, which previous games couldn't be arsed to do. Fire is average, Thunder is powerful but inaccurate, Wind is accurate but weaker, and Dark magic was even more powerful but even less accurate.

 

Edit: Damn it, my noobishness is showing.

Edited by Gima
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27 minutes ago, Gima said:

Don't really agree with you. Playing a map of the standard size for this series on an iPhone 5 would be hell. Same goes for any phone that is not absurdly huge, really. Also if they wanted graphics then you'd need a high end phone or tablet in order to play this game, which would suck for a lot of players. In order to make the standard map size work, you'd need virtual buttons, which are an absolute pain in any mobile game. Otherwise the squares would be far too small on a lot of phones.

No, we could just scroll like on any browser, that's even less painful than on the standard titles where you have to move to the other side of the map with just the stick. I think dividing the tile's size by 4 (so the length of its side is divided by 2) with bigger maps would perfectly work. The power needed for games on smartphone is different, look how some games are very beautiful, like the Infinity Blade series (that smoothly worked on iPhone 4 !!!), Dawn of Titans, and run very correctly. I was expecting at least 3D battles.

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5 minutes ago, Brand_Of_The_Exalt said:

No, we could just scroll like on any browser, that's even less painful than on the standard titles where you have to move to the other side of the map with just the stick. I think dividing the tile's size by 4 (so the length of its side is divided by 2) with bigger maps would perfectly work. The power needed for games on smartphone is different, look how some games are very beautiful, like the Infinity Blade series (that smoothly worked on iPhone 4 !!!), Dawn of Titans, and run very correctly. I was expecting at least 3D battles.

Imagine playing a map like FE7's Pale Flower of Darkness, or even Port of Badon (which is very small in comparison). If I want to examine an entire map before jumping into battle, I lack both a dedicated button for switching units and also would have to move move move my finger and swipe around to accomodate moving my unit from where they are, to a position that with increased universal movement, could easily snipe me because I couldn't see them. The screen needs to be enlarged to function well with a finger instead of a pen, which is why the size is what it is.

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Just now, Elieson said:

Imagine playing a map like FE7's Pale Flower of Darkness, or even Port of Badon (which is very small in comparison). If I want to examine an entire map before jumping into battle, I lack both a dedicated button for switching units and also would have to move move move my finger and swipe around to accomodate moving my unit from where they are, to a position that with increased universal movement, could easily snipe me because I couldn't see them. The screen needs to be enlarged to function well with a finger instead of a pen, which is why the size is what it is.

These are quite big maps indeed, I was thinking of smaller ones. Like Fates' chapter 5, or even RD 2-P. My issue with Heroes' map is that they force to reduce Mov drastically, until 2 tiles that is basically bows/tomes' range, that can't be reduced because numbers are rounded. In some maps, flyers would not even be able to attack them from outside of their range (in the snow map, flyers have 2 Mov). Why not a zoom/dezoom option then (by pinching or with a button) ? Or, if we are able to switch units before the map starts, pressing a character and then moving him with automatic scrolling when he reaches the edges of the screen. That's not different from now, and it's not very pleasant to do with the stick.  Anyway, slightly bigger maps would not a be a problem IMO. 

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29 minutes ago, Elieson said:

Gharnef didn't have dark-type magic. Imhullu was just a tome.

Huh, I thought he did. My bad on that one.

18 minutes ago, Elieson said:

I'd say it's safe to assume that all magic types classify units as "Red Mage" "Green Cavalier" "Blue Whatever", with Emphasis on Dark & Fire magic being "Red", Thunder being "Blue" and Wind being "Green". Since traditionally, Light trumps Dark, one might guess that Light magic users will be using Blue magic.

This actually makes perfect sense, hadn't considered it this way. Also can't believe I missed the dark mages = red thing. Light as blue and dark as red also makes because most of the iconic playable mages have been wind users, now that I think about it (this is a totally not fact-based statement).

 

On map sizes: I said this earlier on this thread but I could see them making slightly bigger maps, for example 10x8 or something (with smaller tiles, not scrolling). But not much more than that, due to how annoying it could get for the player.

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I think if they were to include perma death, it would be like this:

Before a battle, the player can choose to fight with perma death on or not. If the player wins with perma death on, the player wins better rewards and units have increased growth rates upon leveling up. Weird idea, but it's so Casual and Classic players have the best of both worlds.

 

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1 minute ago, Rend Keaven said:

I think if they were to include perma death, it would be like this:

Before a battle, the player can choose to fight with perma death on or not. If the player wins with perma death on, the player wins better rewards and units have increased growth rates upon leveling up. Weird idea, but it's so Casual and Classic players have the best of both worlds.

 

Yes, because losing a character you spent real money on would be very painful, especially because you have a very small chance to find him again. Did they confirm if death is permanent or not ?

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3 minutes ago, Brand_Of_The_Exalt said:

Yes, because losing a character you spent real money on would be very painful, especially because you have a very small chance to find him again. Did they confirm if death is permanent or not ?

 

3 minutes ago, Brand_Of_The_Exalt said:

Yes, because losing a character you spent real money on would be very painful, especially because you have a very small chance to find him again. Did they confirm if death is permanent or not ?

Units who die return after the battle. It's confirmed.

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1 minute ago, Brand_Of_The_Exalt said:

Yes, because losing a character you spent real money on would be very painful, especially because you have a very small chance to find him again. Did they confirm if death is permanent or not ?

In the trailer, at the scene were Lon'qu gets owned by a Wyvern Rider, it said "defeated heroes will return to your unit after the battle has ended".

But surely spending money isn't the only way to get new characters. I'm just sure that they will be player who want a real FE experience with permadeath on.

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3 minutes ago, Rend Keaven said:

In the trailer, at the scene were Lon'qu gets owned by a Wyvern Rider, it said "defeated heroes will return to your unit after the battle has ended".

But surely spending money isn't the only way to get new characters. I'm just sure that they will be player who want a real FE experience with permadeath on.

Just run a self-imposed Nuzlocke through the Arena or something!

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Just now, Elieson said:

 

Units who die return after the battle. It's confirmed.

 

Just now, Rend Keaven said:

In the trailer, at the scene were Lon'qu gets owned by a Wyvern Rider, it said "defeated heroes will return to your unit after the battle has ended".

But surely spending money isn't the only way to get new characters. I'm just sure that they will be player who want a real FE experience with permadeath on.

Great, usually I'm for perma-death, but not here. I think they said that you get orbs through the story (or Yuri Lowenthal rather, was very glad when I heard him), but if you want a particular character with let's say, at least 2-3 stars, you'll probably have to pay. There are so many characters. I'm curious about these stars however, that seems completely broken, the difference between the Robins they showed is huge.

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Hahaha. You have two options when it comes to getting characters in gatchas: get lucky, or spend money. Sure you get a freebie every now and then but it's never any good. Why would Classic mode even be an option? The idea of even playing it sounds downright insane.

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5 minutes ago, Gima said:

Hahaha. You have two options when it comes to getting characters in gatchas: get lucky, or spend money. Sure you get a freebie every now and then but it's never any good. Why would Classic mode even be an option? The idea of even playing it sounds downright insane.

Wasn't there a story of a guy who spent 6k$ on a in-game lottery for a character with increased chances ?! I think getting rid of the rarity stars would make the game more balanced and increase the chance of getting the character you want. And perma-death would be less dramatic. But it would generate less money... 

Edited by Brand_Of_The_Exalt
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1 hour ago, Gima said:

OK, but Fire Emblem: Awakening does differ the magic types in ways beyond rock paper scissors, which previous games couldn't be arsed to do. Fire is average, Thunder is powerful but inaccurate, Wind is accurate but weaker, and Dark magic was even more powerful but even less accurate.

 

Edit: Damn it, my noobishness is showing.

I think you're on the wrong track.

For the GBA games (the ones I'm most familiar with), the Actual Magic Triangle gives actual WTA/WTD calculations.  Let's take Saleh (anima), Knoll (dark), and Moulder (light).  If Knoll were to attack Saleh, he'd have improved hit/damage, thanks to WTA.  If Knoll were to attack Moulder, his hit rate and damage would be decreased, because he has WTD.  In Awakening, it didn't matter if Ricken had Fire and his enemy had Flux, he wouldn't suffer WTD.  Likewise, the anima magics were separated by stats, which was easy enough to work around thanks to forging.

In Heroes, it looks like tome users fall into the three colors, meaning that there is some sort of magic triangle, BUT it's lumped into the general weapon triangle instead of being its own thing.  I like it like this, because it beats asking "should I use Soren or Ilyana to attack this fire mage?".

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1 minute ago, eclipse said:

I think you're on the wrong track.

For the GBA games (the ones I'm most familiar with), the Actual Magic Triangle gives actual WTA/WTD calculations.  Let's take Saleh (anima), Knoll (dark), and Moulder (light).  If Knoll were to attack Saleh, he'd have improved hit/damage, thanks to WTA.  If Knoll were to attack Moulder, his hit rate and damage would be decreased, because he has WTD.  In Awakening, it didn't matter if Ricken had Fire and his enemy had Flux, he wouldn't suffer WTD.  Likewise, the anima magics were separated by stats, which was easy enough to work around thanks to forging.

In Heroes, it looks like tome users fall into the three colors, meaning that there is some sort of magic triangle, BUT it's lumped into the general weapon triangle instead of being its own thing.  I like it like this, because it beats asking "should I use Soren or Ilyana to attack this fire mage?".

...The edit was supposed to indicate that I found out that the differences I were talking about were in previous games, and thus my argument was not applicable.

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26 minutes ago, eclipse said:

I think you're on the wrong track.

For the GBA games (the ones I'm most familiar with), the Actual Magic Triangle gives actual WTA/WTD calculations.  Let's take Saleh (anima), Knoll (dark), and Moulder (light).  If Knoll were to attack Saleh, he'd have improved hit/damage, thanks to WTA.  If Knoll were to attack Moulder, his hit rate and damage would be decreased, because he has WTD.  In Awakening, it didn't matter if Ricken had Fire and his enemy had Flux, he wouldn't suffer WTD.  Likewise, the anima magics were separated by stats, which was easy enough to work around thanks to forging.

In Heroes, it looks like tome users fall into the three colors, meaning that there is some sort of magic triangle, BUT it's lumped into the general weapon triangle instead of being its own thing.  I like it like this, because it beats asking "should I use Soren or Ilyana to attack this fire mage?".

nah throw a spear user and one shot the red mage

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Spoiler

 

One thing that's bugging me...I feel like I should recognize the tune playing here, but I can't put my finger on it. Anyone else recognize it

 

One other thing; with your "Team" being all of the units you have, and your account being able to house 200 units...I wonder if the game offers 200+ units at start, 1/per/slot, if if that accomodates having duplicate units and a reduced PC count. 

Edited by Elieson
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Yeah... sorry to beat the dead horse here, Gima, but Awakening did a lot more to dumb down magic than it did to develop it. It was one of my biggest issues with Awakening, personally... (it's not a huge one, but I'm very enthusiastic about the magic in these games so it was kind of a letdown for me, haha... ;; ) I thought Dark magic having differing specialized effects from most of the other magic tomes, though it was kinda undercut by the presence of tomes like Celica's Gale (doubles like waste), Katarina's Bolt (high crit rate like Ruin) with the only truly unique Dark tomes being Nosferatu/Aversa's Night and Mire. I can forgive it somewhat since it simplified things for newer players and helped Awakening's accessibility somewhat, but it's always sort of a point of contention for me when it comes to Awakening, sadly.

....But going back to the topic at hand. @Elieson yeah, that one definitely sounds familiar, but I can't put my finger on what it's from either x___x

So uhh. GameXplain made a video pointing out that a lot of the maps shown in the trailers were compacted versions of classic maps, did anyone else notice that?

 

Edited by BANRYU
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