Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[DehNutCase]

11 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

I really don't see why Hinoka and Est are lumped in with Cordelia in S tier, when Cordelia does the exact build better than those two. What's the point then?

Same for Red Mage. I know all four of those mages are mad good, but come on. This is a bit silly.

The tier list is stupid for offensive units in general. Setsuna has been 1 or 2 tiers higher than better brave-bow users for a while now, only recently (edit: that is, today or yesterday) did she drop to Klein's level. (Because a unit, who can only run one build well, is obviously 2 tiers better than a unit who can run that one build better and actually has stats to run other things. Klein was 2 tiers below her for ~1 month now, and he can actually run some 2 range counter-kill sets off his 'acceptable' Res and good defensive speed tier.)

 

Double Edit: Even now, Virion is 2 tiers below Setsuna, even though he actually has more set options and he does the 'Quadsuna' set almost as well as she does, because she's just shit.

 

Edit:

Things Setsuna do better than the other archers below her (for the past month or so):

Being terrible at everything.

Doing 0 damage.

 

Things the other archers do better:

The 'Quadsuna' set.

Any set relying on counter killing.

Any set relying on an extant non-spd stat for special procs.

Any set that wants to run specials that aren't 3 cd.

Any set that doesn't use Brave-Bow.

Everything ever.

Edited June 5, 2017 by DehNutCase

[bethany81707]

3 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

The tier list is stupid for offensive units in general. Setsuna has been 1 or 2 tiers higher than better brave-bow users for a while now, only recently (edit: that is, today or yesterday) did she drop to Klein's level. (Because a unit, who can only run one build well, is obviously 2 tiers better than a unit who can run that one build better and actually has stats to run other things. Klein was 2 tiers below her for ~1 month now, and he can actually run some 2 range counter-kill sets off his 'acceptable' Res and good defensive speed tier.)

Edit:

Things Setsuna do better than the other archers below her (for the past month or so):

Being terrible at everything

 

Things the other archers do better:

The 'Quadsuna' set.

Any set relying on counter killing.

Any set relying on an extant non-spd stat for special procs.

Any set that wants to run specials that aren't 3 cd.

Every thing ever.

I'm having a look at their reasoning section- they mention TKJ more as a Close Counter/Quick Riposte set (before you ask, yes, they list that their defences are poor in the same section with nary a hint of irony) than a Quadsuna build. At least they Brave Bow/Life & Death in the section on Bridal Blessings Cordelia.

Some of these judgements can be quite humourous. Excuse me, I'm going to explore them some more.

[Luchi]

They still seem to be working on the list. But they're definitely going to be fixing the Red Swords.

Source:

https://www.reddit.com/r/FireEmblemHeroes/comments/6fa357/wiki_tier_list_major_update/

 

[DehNutCase]

The wiki tier list is one of those things where, the more I look at it, the angrier I get, so I only use it when I need to go to a specific character's page quickly. (Clicking Icons is a lot faster than typing, especially for multiple characters.)

 

It's basically completely useless as a resource because the information inside is actually worse than what you can find out from 30 minutes of playing with the battle simulator.

 

Edit: It's pretty good at judging a character's popularity, though. High tier = popular on reddit, even if the unit is all kinds of bad in reality.

Edited June 5, 2017 by DehNutCase

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

Isn't Nowi still kinda high, when she only really has one set that only really destroys Red Swords?

[DehNutCase]

2 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Isn't Nowi still kinda high, when she only really has one set that only really destroys Red Swords?

The wiki overvalues 1-2 range counters like crazy. (Because being able to counter is definitely a thing that matters when people can delete you in 1 hit.)

 

Edit: Just note how high Ryoma and Hector is.

Edited June 5, 2017 by DehNutCase

[bethany81707]

2 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Isn't Nowi still kinda high, when she only really has one set that only really destroys Red Swords?

Solid stats across the board coupled with her breath weapon and ranged counterattack makes her very strong.

With Triangle Adept, she's capable of effortlessly invalidating Red units—even Falchion users lose if they engage her.

Vulnerable to powerful green magic, such as Julia, Cecilia and Nino. Her Speed is mediocre as well.

S Rank

[DehNutCase]

4 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

Solid stats across the board coupled with her breath weapon and ranged counterattack makes her very strong.

With Triangle Adept, she's capable of effortlessly invalidating Red units—even Falchion users lose if they engage her.

Vulnerable to powerful green magic, such as Julia, Cecilia and Nino. Her Speed is mediocre as well.

S Rank

Breaking: If you run TA, you can beat the color you have an advantage against.

 

Double Edit: If I had to run a TA 3 blue I'd much rather go Camus---horse weakness isn't a real weakness, better buffs, better mobility, awesome Prf, not being forced into running sword-breaker against the bulkier Falchions (because Nowi sure as hell isn't doubling them when her A-slot is used on TA 3.)

 

(Edit: Are there even units that can lose against their advantage color with TA 3? Nowi is one because Falchion is a thing, but otherwise?)

Edited June 5, 2017 by DehNutCase

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

4 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

The wiki overvalues 1-2 range counters like crazy. (Because being able to counter is definitely a thing that matters when people can delete you in 1 hit.)

 

Edit: Just note how high Ryoma and Hector is.

The criteria they put for S+ is basically "if you don't bring a solid counter you're probably fucked", and I guess it's somewhat accurate for those two?

4 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

Solid stats across the board coupled with her breath weapon and ranged counterattack makes her very strong.

With Triangle Adept, she's capable of effortlessly invalidating Red units—even Falchion users lose if they engage her.

Vulnerable to powerful green magic, such as Julia, Cecilia and Nino. Her Speed is mediocre as well.

S Rank

I mean, any Blue with TA effortlessly invalidates Reds. That's not really saying much.

Ephraim can do the exact same thing without the Falchion weakness, except that he can do both that AND be a -Blade buffbot at the same time. Nowi only does one thing at a time and isn't even the best at it, which is exactly A+ tier's description.

Edited June 5, 2017 by SatsumaFSoysoy

[DehNutCase]

17 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

The criteria they put for S+ is basically "if you don't bring a solid counter you're probably fucked", and I guess it's somewhat accurate for those two?

...That depends on your definition of counter. If we define counters to a unit as: units who, if you don't bring any of them, you'd lose against this unit they counter, then Hector's counters are basically every single red in the game, most greens, some colorless, and a couple blues.

Ryoma's almost the same way, except you swap colors around.

 

Anyway, 1-2 range counters are ranked high because they're 'idiot proof,' which helps for defense teams. But the two of them are also melee units with average and below average movement, meaning their threat ranges are piddling. (2 and 3 compared to Reinhardts 5 or a typical ranged unit's 4.) This reduces their actual threat by a lot, since you can pick and choose engagements on offense.

 

 

Under player control, 1-2 range counter is pretty good, except: Hector is being carried by distant counter, which anyone can inherit. If you have Hector, you have DC. And you don't have to put it on someone with 1 move.

Ryoma is similar---sure, he's not armored, but he's also melee and on foot. Ranged units are easier to position---and can afford to be more min-maxed towards offenses. Fury Ryoma beats a lot of things in 1v1s, but probably loses most 2v1s. A good 'filler' unit, but not an essential component on any team. Alfonse can replace him without issues when his rotation is up.

Edited June 5, 2017 by DehNutCase

[bethany81707]

For reference on Ryoma/Hector

Quote

Boasting incredible Attack, HP and Defense.

Armads has Quick Riposte built-in, making it dangerous to directly engage him.

Makes great use out of Vantage, as he can potentially put opposing teams in a checkmate position if they fail to kill him.

Suffers from Low Resistance, movement and Speed.

 

Quote

High Attack, great Speed and solid Defense, make him a dependable red sword unit.

Raijinto has Distant Counter built-in, giving him excellent coverage against ranged units, especially when with Quick Riposte, which allows him to ORKO virtually every ranged unit in the game.

His Resistance is a bit on the low side.

...I prefer Defiant Attack/Vantage, because if you don't kill him, he's going to hit you with a +7 hit before he goes down. Not always the best, but when you only really point him at greens (Hectors) anyway...

[DehNutCase]

Just now, phineas81707 said:

...I prefer Defiant Attack/Vantage, because if you don't kill him, he's going to hit you with a +7 hit before he goes down. Not always the best, but when you only really point him at greens (Hectors) anyway...

In all honesty, might as well just give him TA 3. Makes him a hard ass check against a single color---his offense will never be spectacular no matter what. Even if you're willing to give up his Prf, his spread isn't good enough to compete with the best offensive units. (Not to mention being melee foot rather than ranged or mounted.)

[bethany81707]

1 minute ago, DehNutCase said:

In all honesty, might as well just give him TA 3. Makes him a hard ass check against a single color---his offense will never be spectacular no matter what. Even if you're willing to give up his Prf, his spread isn't good enough to compete with the best offensive units. (Not to mention being melee foot rather than ranged or mounted.)

This particular Ryoma is -Atk, and is scheduled to be replaced with a Rauorblade Lilina as soon as the latter has the 1300+ SP necessary to kit her out with Hone Speed, Fury and Escape Route. Nice while Nino and Linde struggle to defeat Hector, but not permanent.

Defiant Attack was just a default skill, and I've only ever given TA2 to anything (the Robins) due to lack of TA3.

[DehNutCase]

Just now, phineas81707 said:

This particular Ryoma is -Atk, and is scheduled to be replaced with a Rauorblade Lilina as soon as the latter has the 1300+ SP necessary to kit her out with Hone Speed, Fury and Escape Route. Nice while Nino and Linde struggle to defeat Hector, but not permanent.

Defiant Attack was just a default skill, and I've only ever given TA2 to anything (the Robins) due to lack of TA3.

You can always give him the Ruby Sword+ and DC combo, just to make people's eyes bleed. ; )

 

But yeah, I pretty much forgot he had Defiant Attack by default---Defiant skills just aren't good in general, since one hone buff and one +3 skill matches it, without having to be below half and start a turn.

[bethany81707]

Just now, DehNutCase said:

You can always give him the Ruby Sword+ and DC combo, just to make people's eyes bleed. ; )

 

But yeah, I pretty much forgot he had Defiant Attack by default---Defiant skills just aren't good in general, since one hone buff and one +3 skill matches it, without having to be below half and start a turn.

If I'm going to be sacrificing my one Hector (I... don't remember how much inheritance I've done for him), I'll be doing it on a more serious set. Besides, I want to build Armour Emblem at some point.

Yeah, I'm the guy who's working on 'units safe to send home' and 'carries Defiant anything' is basically a strike against the unit. Defiant Attack is probably the best, and stacks nicely with Vantage (as does Defiant Speed and Desperation, come to think of it), but as you mentioned, it can be easily replicated with other, more general skills. 'One +3 skill' includes Fury, which also helps power Vantage/Desperation by knocking down your health for you.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

1 hour ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

I really don't see why Hinoka and Est are lumped in with Cordelia in S tier, when Cordelia does the exact build better than those two. What's the point then?

Same for Red Mage. I know all four of those mages are mad good, but come on. This is a bit silly.

I mean if its shit like Frederick vs Cherche i can see them being same tier(wait they arent but you get the point) since their overall power is basically the same

Another example of character being exact same is Setsuna vs Virion pre buff or as i mentioned before kinda Bartre vs Lyn

Est vs Cord, calcs wise the later legit have like 20 higher wins last i checked it

Edited June 5, 2017 by JSND

[DehNutCase]

3 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

If I'm going to be sacrificing my one Hector (I... don't remember how much inheritance I've done for him), I'll be doing it on a more serious set. Besides, I want to build Armour Emblem at some point.

Yeah, I'm the guy who's working on 'units safe to send home' and 'carries Defiant anything' is basically a strike against the unit. Defiant Attack is probably the best, and stacks nicely with Vantage (as does Defiant Speed and Desperation, come to think of it), but as you mentioned, it can be easily replicated with other, more general skills. 'One +3 skill' includes Fury, which also helps power Vantage/Desperation by knocking down your health for you.

I do recommend keeping Hector, though. DC is mostly used to murdering crappy mages and archers, which are rare in arena, but very common in things like GHB.

His stats are also pretty good for killing melee units, which is his real job. (Hector isn't a bad unit, it's just that the people who are problems in arena aren't people he's good at dealing with.)

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

2 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

I do recommend keeping Hector, though. DC is mostly used to murdering crappy mages and archers, which are rare in arena, but very common in things like GHB.

His stats are also pretty good for killing melee units, which is his real job. (Hector isn't a bad unit, it's just that the people who are problems in arena aren't people he's good at dealing with.)

Huh? Hector being green alone should make him check the Blue mages, she can Vantage reverse on Nino. Tharja and Celica ok he avoid those

 

Only thing hes not good at amongst Arena issues is against like Azura and SCamilla 

What did i miss?

[DehNutCase]

7 minutes ago, JSND said:

Huh? Hector being green alone should make him check the Blue mages, she can Vantage reverse on Nino. Tharja and Celica ok he avoid those

 

Only thing hes not good at amongst Arena issues is against like Azura and SCamilla 

What did i miss?

He kills one blue mage. Problem is, two blue mages kill him. And he's too much of a fat ass to get away in time.

Edit: Nino is also the squishiest possible green mage, and even she survives the 1HKO with Fury 3. Every other green mage will just 2HKO hector to death, particularly the 'actually dangerous' ones like Cecilia in a horse emblem team.

Edited June 5, 2017 by DehNutCase

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

2 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

I do recommend keeping Hector, though. DC is mostly used to murdering crappy mages and archers, which are rare in arena, but very common in things like GHB.

His stats are also pretty good for killing melee units, which is his real job. (Hector isn't a bad unit, it's just that the people who are problems in arena aren't people he's good at dealing with.)

Huh? Hector being green alone should make him check the Blue mages, she can Vantage reverse on Nino. Tharja and Celica ok he avoid those

 

Only thing hes not good at amongst Arena issues is against like Azura and SCamilla 

What did i miss?

[Vaximillian]

23 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

Rauorblade

dh if you can’t be bothered to look up ð

This will never stop rustling my jimmies :(

[Bartozio]

Just now, DehNutCase said:

He kills one blue mage. Problem is, two blue mages kills him. And he's too much of a fat ass to get away in time.

With vantage he can kill as many Linde's as you want...

I'll grant you that Reinhardt often takes two hits to kill though, which means he can't counter two. Still, running into a legion of Reinhardt isn't that common, and he can deal with Nowi pretty well (since she ofter runs TA), so he handles blue threads quite well, while also being quite decent at dealing with other green and gray units. His movement is an issue for defence teams, but on offence it is quite doable to play around that weakness with pivot and reposition. I'm not saying he breaks the game or anything, but I do consider him the best physical green units at the very least.

[Bartozio]

Edit: Galeforce.

Edited June 5, 2017 by Bartozio

[bethany81707]

1 minute ago, Vaximillian said:

dh if you can’t be bothered to look up ð

This will never stop rustling my jimmies :(

Rauorblade looks closer, and I prefer the spelling to Raudhrblade.

And it took me forever to get the 'uo or ou' spelling right.

[Arcanite]

28 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

Rauorblade looks closer, and I prefer the spelling to Raudhrblade.

And it took me forever to get the 'uo or ou' spelling right.

AGAIN

WHY CAN'T WE ALL JUST SAY REDBLADE

IT MEANS THE SAME EXACT THING