Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

54 minutes ago, JSND said:

Worth SI for F2P since its basically just Lucina

but theres only so far that a Sword Infantry with mid tier Legendary weapon can get.

Which legendary sword is the best? Just Raijinto and Siegfried?

Edited June 16, 2017 by SatsumaFSoysoy

[Vaximillian]

7 hours ago, GuiltyLove said:

HELLO? ILYANA?

better than mia 

I’m torn between Mia/Ilyana and Mia×Rhys. Can’t decide!

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

45 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Which legendary sword is the best? Just Raijinto and Siegfried?

I honestly always consider Durandal, Mystletain, and Regal Blade as the best

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

Just now, JSND said:

I honestly always consider Durandal, Mystletain, and Regal Blade as the best

Regal Blade's effect is pretty nice, but it's still glued to Lloyd, so I didn't think of it.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

1 minute ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Regal Blade's effect is pretty nice, but it's still glued to Lloyd, so I didn't think of it.

Fair enough

 

Its kinda funny how Regal Blade turns Lloyd from a 32/36 garbage into "better Lucina" 34/38 tbh

 

Oh yeah how can i forgot it, Sieglinde is good too.

[Kaden]

Man, Clarisse is in a bad spot. +Atk or +Spd on the other archers with the usual Brave Bow, L&D3, and Luna combo means she gets outpaced by Jeorge, Rebecca, Setsuna, Takumi, Virion, and of course, bride Cordelia who still kicks everyone's butts if neutral. Faye, Gordin, and Niles are the only archers who can't surpass her, but Faye, Niles, and Rebecca can and/or should be running mage counter builds instead of running around with a Brave Bow and Gordin has his high defense and by default comes with a Brave Bow. Then again, that assumes you have a +Atk or +Spd any of those archers, since if neutral, then she's basically around their level.

That said, it makes sense why her attack isn't +32. If it was, then Clarisse having +32/34 offenses means that everyone gets at worse, a free Takumi who is currently dealing with being dethroned by bride Cordelia. 34/34 would basically mean a slightly worse bride Cordelia and slightly worse +Atk Takumi. I cannot imagine how pissed people would be if they summoned solely to get the best units and found out that they didn't have to spend all their orbs and/or money to do so.

Still, insane coverage is awesome, but good coverage works too. I mean, people have other units, right? Free neutral Klein in stats is still pretty good. Funny enough, if you give her the same skills as Klein, her 1 more speed than Klein nets her 2 more kills than Klein. But if everyone has Fury 3, then they get the same results. She really is Kleine.

Welp, considering my poor luck with archers, might as well make her a ghetto Klein. Second Gordin, your sacrifice will not be in vain. Clarisse being an always angry Edea helps.

Edited June 16, 2017 by Kaden

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

4 minutes ago, Kaden said:

 

That said, it makes sense why her attack isn't +32. If it was, then Clarisse having +32/34 offenses means that everyone gets at worse, a free Takumi who is currently dealing with being dethroned by bride Cordelia. 34/34 would basically mean a slightly worse bride Cordelia and slightly worse +Atk Takumi. I cannot imagine how pissed people would be if they summoned solely to get the best units and found out that they didn't have to spend all their orbs and/or money to do so.

This isn't exactly news, it already happen several times at this point

The most egregious case being Camus having the stats spread of Cain and built in Distant Counter in a color where Abel and Peri is the best so far and Legion dumpstering literally everyone in offensive specs(36/35 to Raven 34/35 to Hana 35/36 to L!Cordelia 35/35). Honestly even Michalis kinda counts

Xander vs Eldigan is only ever a question because Mystletainn is such a good weapon too

Heck Olivia is the best unit in the game right now(come at me h8ers), and she's free

 

Sometimes i really wonder if IS make free units rather OP on purpose knowing full well that they have worse ceiling than proper spread units. 

 

[Kaden]

@JSND, I mean like we had a limited banner for bride Cordelia and Takumi appeared in a banner that was implied to be the best units banner. People who threw money at those two banners only to have a free archer immediately show up being as strong as bride Cordelia?

Archers were in a rough spot where 32 neutral attack was considered high. They had fast archers like Niles and Setsuna, but nobody had +33 neutral attack. There wasn't even a slow archer with 35 neutral attack or an archer who had above-average speed, but high attack like Kagero. 32 for other units is like above-average attack. 35 attack and speed basically means screw you to all the other archers. Aside from Faye, Niles, and Rebecca who can function as mage counters, the others had to scrape by as damage dealers. Welp, RIP that for them when bride Cordelia exists. Now, let's immediately add in an archer with 34 attack and speed who is also free. If that happened like 3 GHBs later, it wouldn't be as bad since it'd be after a limited banner and who knows, maybe we would already have a regular archer with high attack and speed added in by then.

Legion at least has other units with high attack and speed existing. That's kind of what I'm trying to get at.

I don't know, but it's kind of like archers are powerful, but also underpowered at the same time. Thieves have damage being Kagero's thing. Everyone else has their own thing. Mostly support, but tanking and mage counter for Felicia. With archers, it's like 3 can be mage counters and everyone else scrambles to be good damage dealers. Physical tanking isn't really a thing when Gordin's defense isn't that high, he's slow, and the units he'd mainly be tanking would be other archers and thieves. Melee units too, but only if he has Close Counter which Takumi might be a better physical tank because of his higher damage output from having higher attack, speed, and a legendary. Oh, and those units he tanks? Yeah, umm, high defense mages with -raven tomes and T-Adept do that much better. Support isn't that great when thieves innately have debuffs with their weapons while Clarisse's Bow is the only one and it's only AoE like Smoke Dagger. 

Eh, whatever.

Edited June 16, 2017 by Kaden

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

3 minutes ago, Kaden said:

@JSND, I mean like we had a limited banner for bride Cordelia and Takumi appeared in a banner that was implied to be the best units banner. People who threw money at those two banners only to have a free archer immediately show up being as strong as bride Cordelia?

Archers were in a rough spot where 32 neutral attack was considered high. They had fast archers like Niles and Setsuna, but nobody had +33 neutral attack. There wasn't even a slow archer with 35 neutral attack or an archer who had above-average speed, but high attack like Kagero. 32 for other units is like above-average attack. 35 attack and speed basically means screw you to all the other archers. Aside from Faye, Niles, and Rebecca who can function as mage counters, the others had to scrape by as damage dealers. Welp, RIP that for them when bride Cordelia exists. Now, let's immediately add in an archer with 34 attack and speed who is also free. If that happened like 3 GHBs later, it wouldn't be as bad since it'd be after a limited banner and who knows, maybe we would already have a regular archer with high attack and speed added in by then.

Legion at least has other units with high attack and speed existing. That's kind of what I'm trying to get at.

I don't know, but it's kind of like archers are powerful, but also underpowered at the same time. Thieves have damage being Kagero's thing. Everyone else has their own thing. Mostly support, but tanking and mage counter for Felicia. With archers, it's like 3 can be mage counters and everyone else scrambles to be good damage dealers. Physical tanking isn't really a thing when Gordin's defense isn't that high, he's slow, and the units he'd mainly be tanking would be other archers and thieves. Melee units too, but only if he has Close Counter which Takumi might be a better physical tank because of his higher damage output from having higher attack, speed, and a legendary. Oh, and those units he tanks? Yeah, umm, high defense mages with -raven tomes and T-Adept. Support isn't that great when thieves innately have debuffs with their weapons while Clarisse is the only one and it's only AoE like Smoke Dagger. 

Eh, whatever.

 

oh yeah i get that now that you explain it

Honestly i think daggers are in a worse position than Archers in general. Archers have a specific area where their offense is high enough to murder lower defense unit that they can't quad, and higher defense units can fall to them with Luna while Daggers bar Kagero is kinda all over the place. this make them great to cover against high res/low def units that Mages could potentiall fail at handling

 

Obviously part of why i think this is because, for the 9000th time i HATE Klein

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

Still waiting for the Red Tome part of the Inheritance Tier List to get sorted out... shouldn't at least Lilina go down to A+?

Also, Bunny Lucina dropped to A+, huh.

[bethany81707]

5 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Still waiting for the Red Tome part of the Inheritance Tier List to get sorted out... shouldn't at least Lilina go down to A+?

Also, Bunny Lucina dropped to A+, huh.

Sanaki would, too. I think.

This also reminds me to add my ratings on them as fodder. I'm imagining all of these would place highly- Luke, I remember thinking immediately 'Useful'.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

Just now, phineas81707 said:

Sanaki would, too. I think.

Probably, yeah. She's pretty interchangeable with Lilina I think.

[bethany81707]

You know, I kind of want to try tiering from Serenes's perspective at some point. There'll probably be overlap with the wiki, but hey.

[Hilda]

5 hours ago, JSND said:

 

oh yeah i get that now that you explain it

Honestly i think daggers are in a worse position than Archers in general. Archers have a specific area where their offense is high enough to murder lower defense unit that they can't quad, and higher defense units can fall to them with Luna while Daggers bar Kagero is kinda all over the place. this make them great to cover against high res/low def units that Mages could potentiall fail at handling

 

Obviously part of why i think this is because, for the 9000th time i HATE Klein

I agree with you, daggers are kinda on the low tier end (bar Kagero and to some degree Jaffar). Their attack power is very niche and underwhelming. If they face armored units with high def and you have noone else to deal with armored units you kinda lost the battle. In that regard they are even worse then healers, since they cant even provide that much of a support that other melee units cant provide.

There is 2 directions IS can go with dagger users. Make them stronger/greater threat by amping up their attack power with various skills/special weapons. Or really solidifie their debuff role. Atm Debuffing with a dagger user feels moot mostly, especially since hone buffs and just redancing the unit elminates the buffs. I dont know, dagger users are at a bad spot atm (bar Kagero and to some extend Jaffar)

Even Kagero has seen a hit in the current meta. If you encounter a Horse Team/Flyer Team/Armor Team she takes a great hit...

Edited June 16, 2017 by Hilda

[Azzurohr]

14 hours ago, JSND said:

@Tenzen12 Lucia is actually my favorite female character design wise

You. I like you. Yes I do I like you you make good sense to me yes good.

 

 

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

2 minutes ago, Hilda said:

I agree with you, daggers are kinda on the low tier end (bar Kagero and to some degree Jaffar). Their attack power is very niche and underwhelming. If they face armored units with high def and you have noone else to deal with armored units you kinda lost the battle. In that regard they are even worse then healers, since they cant even provide that much of a support that other melee units cant provide.

There is 2 directions IS can go with dagger users. Make them stronger/greater threat by amping up their attack power with various skills/special weapons. Or really solidifie their debuff role. Atm Debuffing with a dagger user feels moot mostly, especially since hone buffs and just redancing the unit elminates the buffs. I dont know, dagger users are at a bad spot atm (bar Kagero and to some extend Jaffar)

I wont say as far as Healers are in better position

Healers cant use Draw Back and Reposition 

 

@phineas81707 inb4 S+ Tier Sophia or riot

[bethany81707]

2 minutes ago, JSND said:

@phineas81707 inb4 S+ Tier Sophia or riot

With that speed? I'm having second thoughts about Lilina!

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nnAJuNCkxTh-AK6_lGgSujPHXNDqozhwVnxVLRJN_Ug

I am working on it. Most units have been thrown about randomly, so I really should've taken them out. I'll do that now. Try and comment if you can.

Edited June 16, 2017 by phineas81707

[Hilda]

Just now, JSND said:

I wont say as far as Healers are in better position

Healers cant use Draw Back and Reposition 

 

@phineas81707 inb4 S+ Tier Sophia or riot

yeah agreed, but some healers are awesome, like Prisiclla with wrathfull staff on Horse Emblems can snipe units if needed. And Azama can take physical hits better then most melee units and just be a wall with the proper skills.

[Tenzen12]

1 hour ago, Azzurohr said:

You. I like you. Yes I do I like you you make good sense to me yes good.

 

 

There is never too much of Lucia fans.

[Azzurohr]

Just now, Tenzen12 said:

There is never too much of Lucia fans.

There never is my friend, there never is.

[Bartozio]

2 hours ago, phineas81707 said:

With that speed? I'm having second thoughts about Lilina!

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nnAJuNCkxTh-AK6_lGgSujPHXNDqozhwVnxVLRJN_Ug

I am working on it. Most units have been thrown about randomly, so I really should've taken them out. I'll do that now. Try and comment if you can.

This seems like a decent start at the very least. There's a few placements that I don't fully understand/agree with though.

1.  Why is Katrina ranked lower then Tharja? She has the same speed and attack as Tharja, so her offence protential should be the same. The difference is that Katrina has a very good res stat, and can thus be used to tank opposing mages or proc Glacies, but lower hp and defence meaning she'll die to pretty much every physical hits. Tharja's defence isn't amazing either though, so I'm not sure it's a good strategy to rely on her tanking a hit to get into desperation range anyway. I feel Katrina can do the whole -blade tome build slightly better then Tharja and should thus be placed among the top tier units. Am I missing something though?
2. I'm not enterily sure what to think of Olwen being placed below Reinhardt and Ursula. I feel Ursula isn't to impressive without cavelry buffs, but Olwen is better then Reinhardt with Cavalry buffs. Basicly, if you're also taking into account how much support they need to work and how they function without that, Ursula might have to be moved down a tier, and otherwise Olwen should be moved up.
3. I have some doubts about Effie really being that good, since being an armour pretty much forces her into being an EP unit, making a brave lance set far less effective. I don't have her though, so I might be entirely wrong here.

Of the unplaced units, I feel Subaki and Narcian can be placed in the Handy tier. I was thinking the same for Stahl, but Subaki and Eldigan might very well do his job better, so I'm not sure. I haven't used the other characters enough to feel cconfident about placing them.

Hope you found this somewhat usefull.

 

[Hilda]

5 hours ago, phineas81707 said:

With that speed? I'm having second thoughts about Lilina!

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nnAJuNCkxTh-AK6_lGgSujPHXNDqozhwVnxVLRJN_Ug

I am working on it. Most units have been thrown about randomly, so I really should've taken them out. I'll do that now. Try and comment if you can.

I would up Azama and Wrys up to the other healers. Azama can reach 40 Defense with DEF+ IV and Fortress Def 3, makeing him a unremovable wall that can stay almost indefintly there with Live to Serve 2/B Slot Renewal. Also has enough HP for Panic Ploy 3 to be applied to all the relevant units that use Emblem buffs. Since Armored units use rather Spur buffs their HP check doesnt matter much. He tanked 2 Legions and the Bow Unit today on Lunatic on a Defensiv Tile for 3 Turns takeing 0 dmg Blocking the Path for them to not being able to further move on, while the Rest of the Crew finished the lower Left part of the map.

Wrys is the same as Azama, but just in form of Resistance to Magical dmg. he has the highest Resistance with RES IV 39 of all Units. With another A Slot skill further enhancing this to 42, which means he will apply to ALL units Attack Ploy 3 for -5 Attack from across the screen.

Those 2 Debuffs and the wall those 2 can build up (especially on Defensiv Tiles) they should be on the same Tier as Genny, Elise, Priscilla etc.

EDIT2: But then again the Chart is called Offensiv Tier not utility Chart. In that Regard Eirika should be moved down one Tier, she is definitly not such a powerhouse as Ryoma Ike Lucina etc.

 

EDIT: I agree on the subject of Ursula, she should be on the Same Tier as Olwen, because TomeBlade Ursula is just as effectiv as Olwen in a Horse Emblem Team.

 

Edited June 16, 2017 by Hilda

[shadowofchaos]

17 hours ago, Big Smoke said:

I'm assuming that at this point most have at least gotten 4* "Marth"? I wish I could get 5*, but I'm not up for inane loss grinding with my sub-par team. What does everyone think of he-him, i mean? Good bad or ugly?

(worth the SI?)

If I had a 4 star Marth, he'd get 5 starred immediately.

But alas I have never pulled him.

Edit: Frick you mean masked Marth. Doh.

They're good for people who never pulled Lucy. Like me.

But they're not *THAT good* since you have to build them up fully with loads of SI.

Especially if they have sentimental value like when I was looking for their crit animation in Awakening.

Edited June 16, 2017 by shadowofchaos

[Bartozio]

19 minutes ago, Hilda said:

 

EDIT2: But then again the Chart is called Offensiv Tier not utility Chart. In that Regard Eirika should be moved down one Tier, she is definitly not such a powerhouse as Ryoma Ike Lucina etc.

I assume offensive means player controled (as opposed to how good they are on an arena defence team). If utility is irelevant, then dancers aren't exemplary either.

On the subjest of healers, I'm a bit conflicted. Considering how the Useful tier should consist of units that are somewhat on par with the behemoths, I feel healers don't really have a place there. Elise might be an exception (might), since she can actually deal decent damage in a cavalry team (assuming she has Wrathful staff) on top of being a very mobile healer, but I'm not even sure whether that should be enough to land a spot in the Useful tier. The rest of the mobile healers should probably be moved down to the Handy tier.

The infantry healers (with perhaps some exceptions) should be moved down to the Limited tier, since if all they can add to a team is healing, mobile healers just outclass them. I agree that Azama is a bit better then the standard infantry healer, so he can stay in the Handy tier, same with Wrys. I'm not sure about Genny, since while her attack stat is pretty ridiculous, her bad speed and the inability to equip DB and weapon breakers (DB can't be inherited and WS already uses up her b-slot) means her offence isn't to great in the end. In fact, Elise has better offence on a cavalry team thanks to her much higher speed, meaning she is even somewhat outclassed. I feel in the end, Genny doesn't stand out to much from the other infantry healers.

[Kaden]

12 hours ago, JSND said:

Obviously part of why i think this is because, for the 9000th time i HATE Klein

Well, you're going to hate him more when I make a female Klein and when Louise aka momma Klein shows up. :p

7 hours ago, Hilda said:

There is 2 directions IS can go with dagger users. Make them stronger/greater threat by amping up their attack power with various skills/special weapons. Or really solidifie their debuff role. Atm Debuffing with a dagger user feels moot mostly, especially since hone buffs and just redancing the unit elminates the buffs. I dont know, dagger users are at a bad spot atm (bar Kagero and to some extend Jaffar)

This just made me think of something: a Panic Dagger and that Clarisse's Bow should have either shared or swapped effects with Legion's Axe. If you can't kill a unit, but can severely cripple them because they got or will get buffed? That could make an archer or thief be really useful, albeit really niche.

Legion's likely going to kill a unit he attacks with his high attack and speed, so Panic on his axe isn't that great and the axe units with lower attack and/or speed might want an Emerald, Killer, or Silver Axe instead. Maybe even Brave like Titania if you want to run a quad build. Legion's Axe with Dark Breath and Smoke Dagger's effects would have made more sense. Kill a unit and debuff nearby units? Cool. Kill a unit and cause them to Panic? Uh...

Some archers and thieves without certain boons and skills won't be able to kill a unit, especially if they have high defense and/or high speed. The only ranged weapon we have that has Panic are on healers and on a unit that we cannot obtain as of yet: Veronica. And to make it safe for healers, you kind of need Dazzling Staff which you can't until a regular healer shows up with it. For archers and thieves, they could run with Watersweep or Windsweep. They would only need to hit once, inflict Panic, and another unit can come in to finish the kill.

A bow or dagger with Candlelight's effect could work too. Just call it a Stun Bow or Dagger.

The unfortunate thing with all of this is as you pointed out that if a unit does anything and a dancer is there to refresh them, then all the debuffs go away. If it didn't and debuffs stayed for the entirety of a turn, then debuffs could be more potent.