No Pair-Up?

[ChibiToastExplosion]

2 minutes ago, unique said:

i honestly pretty much assumed they would end up doing that if they remade any game but it really looks like they're trying to keep it as close to the original as possible

mages don't use tomes, the dungeons and map are still there, archers can attack close range, and it looks like you even take at least 1 damage from any attack

you can even see the stat bars in the thing it shows before you fight an enemy, which just shows how dedicated they are to making it like the original since those serve no purpose now that you can see the actual stats

While everyone panics and runs for the hills, I weep tears of sweet, sweet joy.

If they pull this off, I have a new favorite FE, sorry BB. Gaiden already had the best overall music imo, and now that it's updated I think this game will get the chance to shine that it really deserved.

[Night Zap]

While I absolutely loved the way Pair-Up worked in Fates, I don't think it would fit into Gaiden. With the smaller cast and deployment numbers, there are less chances to utilize it, and going into Defensive Stance would could down the number of units on the field even further.

[Anacybele]

Okay, maybe I can understand pair-up not being in then, but skills and other things? How would they hurt the game? Admittedly, Gaiden is probably the FE I know the least about, so...

Mages don't use tomes? What the heck DO they use then?

[Tryhard]

8 minutes ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

While everyone panics and runs for the hills, I weep tears of sweet, sweet joy.

If they pull this off, I have a new favorite FE, sorry BB. Gaiden already had the best overall music imo, and now that it's updated I think this game will get the chance to shine that it really deserved.

Me, I wonder if doubling will be only one more speed required. That would really confuse people. Or the whole "terrain doesn't protect you from magic" with it not losing accuracy. Some Gaiden mechanics would mess with people so bad.

3 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Okay, maybe I can understand pair-up not being in then, but skills and other things? How would they hurt the game? Admittedly, Gaiden is probably the FE I know the least about, so...

Mages don't use tomes? What the heck DO they use then?

In Gaiden, they cast spells using hit points. Spells were also pretty damn powerful because of that, and Clerics naturally had a (bad accuracy) Nosferatu spell to drain life.

Edited January 19, 2017 by Tryhard

[ChibiToastExplosion]

2 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Okay, maybe I can understand pair-up not being in then, but skills and other things? How would they hurt the game? Admittedly, Gaiden is probably the FE I know the least about, so...

Mages don't use tomes? What the heck DO they use then?

Their own HP. Honestly, I LOVE that magic system. I hope it stays.

Skills would break the simpler games like SD/Gaiden, because they wouldn't be designed around them.

1 minute ago, Tryhard said:

Me, I wonder if doubling will be only one more speed required. That would really confuse people. Or the whole "terrain doesn't protect you from magic" with it not losing accuracy. Some Gaiden mechanics would mess with people so bad.

It would mess with people a lot, but it's what really makes Gaiden, well, Gaiden. I think a good tutorial would definitely help, as much as people hate those. At the same time, weapons are pretty balanced if they keep just a default for every character, unless equipped. Talk about simple!

[Tryhard]

The one annoying thing about the magic system is the auto-casting. I'd hope for a "counterattacking" mode that could be enabled specifying a certain spell if that's how they were going to do it, since trading spells and getting hit is a quick way to get a mage killed.

[Anacybele]

So mages drain their own HP to attack? That sounds like suicide. :/

[ChibiToastExplosion]

1 minute ago, Tryhard said:

The one annoying thing about the magic system is the auto-casting. I'd hope for a "counterattacking" mode that could be enabled specifying a certain spell if that's how they were going to do it, since trading spells and getting hit is a quick way to get a mage killed.

I kind of always saw that as the apology for "oops, you get 0 res and you get 0 res and oh yeah, you can have 0 res too ya silly" Magic WAS pretty gnarly, and it was a way to save your spells for when you needed them most. The sage was the nuke you sent in, not the guy holding the line.

But yes, magic users were really frail. For as much as I really loved the system, it was really Cliff or go home for the most part with mages.

[goodperson707]

^^^^A full scale 3ds style skill system? Maybe I'd even say probably. Skills in general ? No and all the games I think can be said to have skills. 

 

^^^^^And then spotpass gives a free magic shield and people particularly solo the game with one good unit with good offense and physical defense and who is exempt from the can't lower magic's acc rule if it works like I think it does. 

Edited January 19, 2017 by goodperson707

[HK Motendra]

6 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Wow, I'm shocked at how many people don't like pair-up. I think it's an amazing mechanic that should become an FE staple. Not only do I feel it's realistic, but I thought it added another layer of strategy if done right. Which characters do I pair with each other, and at what point? And in Fates, do I do a literal pair-up for dual guard, or just keep units side by side to get a dual strike?

At the same time, it also brings in another variable to worry about; particularly when out numbered.  For me, by pairing up, you're essentially lowering the number of units you have on the field, which can and WILL bite you eventually. Having "super" units is nice, until they get surrounded and you find that your general 1:2 unit ratio rises.

For this reason is why I can never play any of FE3DS on classic.

As for this new one? Only time will tell

[Tryhard]

7 minutes ago, goodperson707 said:

^^^^And then spotpass gives a free magic shield and people particularly solo the game with one good unit with good offense and physical defense and who is exempt from the can't lower magic's acc rule if it works like I think it does. 

Speed (and Luck, for magical avoid... but only Speed + Terrain for physical avoid... it's strange) still gives you avoid, it's just terrain was significant in Gaiden. Like, tombstones (yes, tombstones) give you 60 avoid. There was other ways to counteract magic users, including a Magic Shield item, which reduces enemy magic accuracy to 10% (lol).

Like I've said before, Gaiden is janky, but it's also great. It'll be interesting to see what they do with it.

9 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

So mages drain their own HP to attack? That sounds like suicide. :/

You had to protect Mages, and you'd usually want to keep your cleric around nearby. They could do some neat things (like thunder at 3 range) but unless you just flung them into a group of enemies they would generally not be in too much trouble.

Edited January 19, 2017 by Tryhard

[Anacybele]

I see. I guess if I get this game, I'll have to see how I do with that mage/magic system.

I always play Classic mode though. It's what I prefer and it's what I'm used to. Permadeath is realistic and makes me care about my units more and strategize more carefully.

Edited January 19, 2017 by Anacybele

[HK Motendra]

@Anacybele of course, careful strategizing is a requirement for me, regardless of what mode I play (which is hard, save for Conquest *shivers*). But sometimes, you never know when you'll end up derping again until its too late. ESPECIALLY with Fates' RNG, where no amount of precautions will save you from the possibility of death (in my exp, anyway)

[Anacybele]

Yeah, if I were to play Conquest, I'd probably make it the exception since I hear it's really hard. I failed Birthright's Endgame, so... xP

[Tryhard]

11 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I see. I guess if I get this game, I'll have to see how I do with that mage/magic system.

To be honest, I'm not sure if they're going to go with that system - from the trailer, there's a couple of spells cast, and though they don't appear to have any tomes on them, they don't seem to take any damage while casting (at least visually). So it may be a new MP system or something else entirely. Not sure.

[Anacybele]

Oh, really? I didn't really notice at all. I guess we'll see when we get more details, then.

[falcoknights]

honestly? i don't care if pair up isn't back. pair up is nice, but it's definitely not a requirement by any means. i actually prefer the rescue function compared to pair up, save for the "attack stance" part of pair up- that's pretty much the only part i'd keep if it was getting scrapped.

as well, there's no real need for it. gaiden wasn't designed with pair up in mind, so to remake it with pair up would get awkward. plus? dungeons! that's way cooler imo.

[King Marth 64]

3 hours ago, Anacybele said:

I see. I guess if I get this game, I'll have to see how I do with that mage/magic system.

I always play Classic mode though. It's what I prefer and it's what I'm used to. Permadeath is realistic and makes me care about my units more and strategize more carefully.

And also plus, you might be interested for Echoes: Shadows of Valentia that have that you did not noticed.

1. Gaiden was the first FE game uses 3rd Tier Classes, you might recognize some of the 3rd Tier Classes from Radiant Dawn and it does have Dread Fighters and Bow Knight as a 3rd Tier, plus Saints are 2nd Tiers in Gaiden.
2. Snipers have 5 range than 2 range.
3. Gaiden is the first Fire Emblem game that introduced with the World Map traveling.
4. Clerics can summon Illusion Soldiers and can use Nosferatsu.
5. There's an Arran/Samson type characters that you need to pick in which path for Celica's route in Chapter 3 are the Witch named Sonya and Deen that appeared in Awakening for the Gaiden DLC map and Spotpass.
6. There is no Weapon Use and the weapons will not brake like in Fire Emblem Fates. Staves can't brake either.

And for the Pair Up, I totally think that could be a problem since Robin came up with the idea of Pair Up when he looked when Sumia rescued Chrom from the Regan Feroxian soldiers shooting the arrows that were targeting Chrom.

Edited January 20, 2017 by King Marth 64

[goodperson707]

The magic self damage could be resolved after battle, that could work off the "poison" damage system from fates that might save a bit of work. Not sure exactly how the orginal worked, that might help mitigate sucidal magic use a bit while keeping it in.

Edited January 20, 2017 by goodperson707

[JasonMendez]

That's tough. If the game is difficult I don't see why not, but I think it would be better saved for the switch. After all pair-ups get stronger with supports. The game release is separated by roughly a month so that could mean no support conversations but maybe support bonuses like the ones in Thracia 776. If they don't use pair ups maybe make the support bonuses stronger if the characters are next to each other. 15% if next to each other and a normal 10% if within 3 spaces.

[Shadow Knight]

5 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Yeah, if I were to play Conquest, I'd probably make it the exception since I hear it's really hard. I failed Birthright's Endgame, so... xP

Lol I wouldn't feel too bad about that, Final boss is final boss for a reason, though I never lost to him :P

 

Honestly Pair ups is one of my favorite parts of Fire Emblem. When I play some of the older games it just feels like a chunk of the game is missing. I dont miss children for example when I play path of radiance or 7, but I do miss pair up bc of how it lends itself to Fire Emblem's soul: Working together with your comrades in battle to defeat large armies. It fulfills everything about fire emblem, Strategy, Teamwork, combat, Bonds, etc. It just adds another layer that helps make me feel like I'm actually fighting for my friends.

 

I loved it in Awakening even though it was really broken, and Fates had the best combat system imo save for dropping the weapon use limits. I think Fate's version would fit in fine with Gaiden and I think it is the most likely feature that could be carried over into this Gaiden remake. We definitely wont be seeing an avatar or children this time around which are good things. Gaiden is Alm and Celica's story, no reason to throw a MU wrench in there. And Children work in 4 and 13 but they didnt really belong in Fates

[Ronman5]

As said to this topic I would prefer no Pairup for the reasoning that it could ruin the old game... 

Fe2 was weird, Archers could counter attack at space one, and shoot (without a item equipped) up to 3 squares away... with a bow equipped it was upped to 5 squares.. so hopefully archers and the fully evolved Bow knight (same as archers but high move and auto gets 5 square range) won't be highly op.. 

 

one hopefully fixed feature is Growthrates... Gaiden had terrible growth rates.. where people ended up with a max growth of about 150%.... the best character in the game for growths (Est) was 210%... but to counter act the bad growth rates they had stations which increased a certain stat by a bit.. but they could only be used 3 times.. 

another feature I hope fixed is the brokenness of Vilagers to Mercs... because as Mercs when they got to Dread Fighter they could swap back down to villager creating a infinite loop all other classes lacked.. and you could do this with the (4 mercenaries and one villager) you get in Celica's group and the (3 starting villagers you get immediately) in Alms group..

[FrostyFireMage]

I think there might be a separate MP bar instead of casting from HP. If so, hopefully there'll be a weak spell that costs nothing so mages won't be totally useless once they run out of MP. 

Or maybe magic could drain HP if the unit has no MP left.

 

[mikethepokemaster]

On 1/18/2017 at 8:19 PM, Locke087 said:

Coming from a man who doesn't like Shadow Dragon, but appreciates that I game came to the US at all.

Think about it this way what if they added pair up to Tullius for no reason, do you honestly believe that would improve FE 9-10, it wouldn't because it doesn't belong in the game.  Gaiden very much isn't Shadow Dragon, from what I understand it is a very different game. Expect this plays a bit like Sacred Stones with a lot of new features as well, such a dungeon crawling and dynamic promotions, and Gaiden's Unique Classes & Weapons. 

I hope that supports are in though and I'm pretty sure they will, not a dealbreaker if they aren't. Also seems that they're filling out Gaiden the story a little bit more.  I'm excited I wanted to play gaiden it was just to clunky for me to do it. Having pair up in the game wouldn't be a dealbreaker but I don't think it belongs, If they had it I think they would've advertised it, considering the popularity of the feature.

You know some people play Fire Emblem for the supports right so if there aren't any than the sales might take a hit and hear the story is bare bones and plus people like to ship characters and this already has set pairings so another hit. I thin the reason why they are releasing a main line fire emblem right after Echoes is partly because it been three years since Fate and if the game tanks in sales and reviews they have back up games with the mechanics people love with the Fire Emblem Switch. Personally I don't think will tank but if the games doesn't have supports and marrige it might lose sales.

[Emerson]

I see no issue with taking a break from Pair-Up. Fates may have done it justice, but it doesn't mean Fire Emblem can't be fun without it.