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(Apologies if a thread like this already exists)

So I don't know about you, but I'm pretty hyped about Shadows of Valentia. I wasn't expecting it at all; never really enjoyed Gaiden, but I respected it for its massive formula changes and shift into more of a traditional RPG. It seems like Echoes will be retaining a lot of these changes, and hopefully this time around the tech is good enough to really eliminate all the tedious and obviously dated parts of Gaiden. 

But part of me is kind of worried that this game will have some sort of "spin-off"-itis in that it won't be enough to really captivate me. It looks hectic, don't get me wrong. Awesome character designs so far, my sweet boy Alm, the combat looks fluid if the HUD looks a little strange to me at the moment, and the dungeon crawling looks genuinely interesting.

However, I have some fears: namely, that it will lack the supports, character building and story elements to really get me hooked on it. Gaiden has a relatively small cast IIRC, so I'm wondering if they will be adding in more characters to bulk up the roster, making these few existing characters more fleshed out, or leaving the numbers the same but massively underexplored. Limited supports in particular, with genuinely interesting conversations which amount to well-established relationships is what I had wanted out of Awakening and Fates, so their absence (even if it understandable) would be sorely felt. 

What about the rest of you? What gets you excited? Never played Gaiden and want to experience the beginnings of the series? Like the look of the art? And what might disappoint you about it? Let me know!

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I would be 100% ok with a smaller cast if they spent more time fleshing everyone out. I wouldn't want characters to be defined by "generic, bright-eyed rebel fighter #55" or "generic character defined by a singular gimmick/quirk #43". I want my characters fleshed out and interesting. If a smaller cast means more character development, then so be it. 

Edited by Leif
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Story looks really interesting, even though there isn't a ton about it yet other than what Gaiden had with some added material. Gameplay wise it looks pretty good.

 

My hopes are that the story does better than Fates, which isn't a very high bar. I also hope it brings a little more balance into classes and all of that. I also hope that the smaller cast allows for some more interesting characters and concepts.

fears are unfortunately a little more than my hopes. Part of my problem is that this came so soon. I am worried it will really lack any substantial content. I also fear that they don't include a good support system. Awakening and Fates made good steps for the support system, even with all of its issues. I hope that isn't dropped due to Fates criticism. I also am worried about the very limited class selection. I don't know much about Gaiden, so I'm unsure how classes worked. 5 base classes doesn't sound bad, but I'm unsure how promotions are handled after that.

 

some things I am mixed on are Avatars. In some ways, I don't want it to return because I don't want another Fates/Awakening situation, but at the same time I really enjoy having my own unit to customize and create so I don't necessarily want it gone either. I'm also mixed on the dungeons aspect. While the idea sounds really cool, I hope they have a little bit to them. I don't want them to just be time consumers or grinding tools.

Edited by Tolvir
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I wouldn't mind an avatar.  I hope they don't try to find a way to add kids again.  I hope they improve the map design.

I'd hope it was more in the vein of old-school Conquest FE's, but will likely be more like Awakening/Birthright, since that's where they took their grind-friendly inspiration from in the first place.

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No there is absolutely NO way there's adding children in this game. The story doesn't even lend itself to including children. I swear IS, don't you dare use that mechanic again and make me eat my words. x[

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3 minutes ago, Leif said:

No there is absolutely NO way there's adding children in this game. The story doesn't even lend itself to including children. I swear IS, don't you dare use that mechanic again and make me eat my words. x[

It didn't fit in Fates either, but that didn't stop them there.

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1 minute ago, Leif said:

No there is absolutely NO way there's adding children in this game. The story doesn't even lend itself to including children. I swear IS, don't you dare use that mechanic again and make me eat my words. x[

Neither did Fates', and we all saw how that turned out.

I totally forgot about Avatars and children. I think it's safe to say that I hope neither is returning, and if there IS an avatar (Fates announced its avatar system in its second trailer and its child system way later, so it's still, unfortunately, possible) I hope their role is downplayed a lot and it's simply there just for a customisable extra unit. I just hope they work with the units and have enough confidence in them to allow them to shine on their own (and through supports please!) Honestly. Please. No children this time.

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1 minute ago, Rezzy said:

It didn't fit in Fates either, but that didn't stop them there.

No, I really think they are trying something new with this entry. I get the impression that this game will have a smaller cast. Especially considering the party divide between Alm and Celica. 

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5 minutes ago, Leif said:

No, I really think they are trying something new with this entry. I get the impression that this game will have a smaller cast. Especially considering the party divide between Alm and Celica. 

Smaller than the original Gaiden's cast?  I don't see why they'd remove characters, especially since the other remakes added characters.

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Just now, Rezzy said:

Smaller than the original Gaiden's cast?  I don't see why they'd remove characters, especially since the other remakes added characters.

No. I believe they may add a few characters, but they won't be expanding on the original cast too much. I didn't mention removing anyone. xD

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6 minutes ago, Leif said:

No. I believe they may add a few characters, but they won't be expanding on the original cast too much. I didn't mention removing anyone. xD

You did say smaller cast while being technically open to wether the subject was the games in general or the original Gaiden. (Though with regards to expansion with a small original cast, the speculated 2 new ones already is bigger than it could be, one seems right at the start too) 

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3 minutes ago, Leif said:

No. I believe they may add a few characters, but they won't be expanding on the original cast too much. I didn't mention removing anyone. xD

Gaiden originally had 32 units, which I guess is less than the monumental amount Fates had, but just a shade lower than the 40 or so we got in FE7 and FE9, and about the same as we got in FE8.

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I fear a few things:

-Avatars and children. I strongly dislike these features and wish that they were not present in other FE titles. To see them in Gaiden would hurt me a bit.

-Retcons or particularly poor writing. If I wanted to play a game that horribly retcons heavy portions of its world, I'd play Awakening.

 

This game has the potential to be a great way to introduce Gaiden to the modern age of gaming. I remain cautiously optimistic.

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This seems like a proper remake unlike SD so I'm happy about it so far.

The Children characters aren't needed. I feel like the support system should be used to affect some dialogue between characters and alter their epilogue endings like how the GBA games did it. It should also give battle bonuses/moral too. But no children are necessary for this title. 

I'm leaning against having an Avatar, mainly because I don't know how they'll affect the story. If there's two customizable characters that are treated like side characters than main characters, I wouldn't mind it. And if there's no avatar characters, then maybe a decent alternative would be able to customize your army (like create a motif or color combination that will show up on all of their armor/magic robes). 

I'm happy that the cast is smaller. Having around 15 characters per route is a lot easier to manage than having 30 per route. Although it limits you on your strategic options, I think that it also makes the game more challenging. Plus the artwork is good too.

 

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3 minutes ago, Party Moth said:

-Retcons or particularly poor writing. If I wanted to play a game that horribly retcons heavy portions of its world, I'd play Awakening.

Don't Gaiden and Awakening already take place in the same universe.  The whole Valm arc is basically on Gaiden's continent.

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I'm pretty sure we'll get supports. They've got to know by now how important supports are to their fanbase.

I am only hopeful for this, and that could very well bite me in the ass.

I guess my only hope I'm iffy on is that I hope the newer and/or casual fanbase love this game, and that it opens the door to possibly seeing FE4-6 remakes. I'd be super-bummed if this just flopped, and we're back to self-inserts and mommy/daddy dialogue from time traveling children.

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3 minutes ago, Cornguy said:

I'm pretty sure we'll get supports. They've got to know by now how important supports are to their fanbase.

I am only hopeful for this, and that could very well bite me in the ass.

I guess my only hope I'm iffy on is that I hope the newer and/or casual fanbase love this game, and that it opens the door to possibly seeing FE4-6 remakes. I'd be super-bummed if this just flopped, and we're back to self-inserts and mommy/daddy dialogue from time traveling children.

I don't want to be a Negative Nancy, but supports were just as important to us before Radiant Dawn came out, but that didn't stop them for killing them for the next two games.  I remember the fans being bitter about it back then.

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6 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

Don't Gaiden and Awakening already take place in the same universe.  The whole Valm arc is basically on Gaiden's continent.

They do, which is why I mentioned Awakening. They've already proven that they can horribly retcon that universe before.

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2 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

I don't want to be a Negative Nancy, but supports were just as important to us before Radiant Dawn came out, but that didn't stop them for killing them for the next two games.  I remember the fans being bitter about it back then.

Personally, I think they've learned their lesson by now, as well as the fact that the supports are some of the most popular aspects of Awakening and Fates.

But like I said, my optimism may not be a good thing.

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I honestly doubt Avatar and children will be in this. I know people are scared because of what happened to Fates, NMoE, and Awakening, but seriously, guys? If they were adding an Avatar, they would have been upfront about it and shown it in the trailer. I think. Most likely, the features will make a return in the new FE game slated for the Switch next year.

Other than that, I've never bothered to play Gaiden, so I'm interested in experiencing the game with a modern twist.

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